New Main Tank, Advice with grp setup and Labs - Page 2

Snorm · 04-23-2007, 04:21 PM

Jaraxx@Lucan DLere wrote:

Snorm wrote:
Aristigon wrote:
Pull like a fiend, as soon as one mob is dead, pop the next one. If the healers can keep up, you can just chain pull like you do heroics; grab the next encounter before the first one is completely dead, etc. If you are taking things hard enough that you have to actually be carefull on the pulls, take the time for a decent count to get all the buffs/heals out, otherwise just grab it. I figure a wipe costs between 3-8 min, assuming you don't have to replow because of repops, so don't push beyond a reasonable point.

Except pull the entire room at once like a heroic zone. Have one healer be assigned to chain cure trauma for the first 20 seconds. AoE it down. It will bring some enjoyment in the zone and it will speed it up quite a bit.

I'm not 100% sure that would work given that he's saying he's in mostly legendary, and the healers are already having issues keeping him up. That said, you're right, labs is more fun when you play it like HoF SMILEY

So... pulling rooms at a time with the guards [Removed for Content] [I cannot control my vocabulary] AOE hate.... In heroic zones, pulling 3 multimob encounters, I usually just arrow one group, click to target another group, hit the AE taunt, try to grab somethign in the third group, hit taunting attack... as soon as they are all reasonably within range, Plant, beseige. You can pop reinforcement in there somewhere if you want. Tab like a maniac and look for anything not pointing at you.... This works fine when people besides you can take a hit. In raids, the only issues I have with pulling mass encounters in KoS is losing healers if aggro slips... There you have pre-heals running ot a much greater extent, and your healers will go down faster. Sentry watch helps, as does intercepts, but my thought always is why take a zone 5 min faster if you're healers are going to walk out nekked instead of at 100%?

So.... How do you keep aggro under control on the pull when pulling rooms at a time?

Snorm

Yourbestfriend · 04-23-2007, 04:32 PM

Reinforcement and Besiege FTW. Then Swashbuckler hate transferto keep it off the warlock.

Yourbestfriend · 04-23-2007, 04:34 PM

No offense but if you are losing agro to your priests and having them die, I suggest you quit a guardian and play another class. I would feel compelled to give my healers 50 plat if they pulled agro and died. The challenging part is keeping agro off the warlock who is pulling up 6k dps.

Snorm · 04-23-2007, 06:49 PM

I'll say it one more time, how do you keep agro under control on the pull with 3+ sets of mobs on you? Beseige is like a 4 second cast, unless all the mobs get to you at once, that won't really work, and even if they did, the timing would have to be tight. Assuming you can actually get them all on you at any point in time, you can smack plant.

There are two real options with mass quantities of unlinked mobs, either your healers are not prehealing at all giving you a couple free hits to get things locked down, or other tanks are helping you out. Or I suppose you just let the healers die a lot and you can feel super uber about setting a new landspeed record in labs.

Incedentally, holding 3+ sets of mobs w/o a swash is something of a trick as well. Can be done, but aggro us usually going to be a bit slippery.

If aggro ever slips to a healer after the assist on a non mem wiping mob, all the tanks and DPS should be fired.

Snorm

DanielAtchison · 04-23-2007, 07:48 PM

I have always had in my MT group Guardian Defiler Templar Dirge Paladin Swashbuckler we have used it all thru KoS and now in EoF... works well for me SMILEY

Steve11418 · 04-26-2007, 01:20 AM

Just catching up on this thread after tanking Labs again.

Thanks for all the input guys.

Just to be clear the healers are not dieing... just losing agro straight away on body pulls and having to fight to get them back. (Not off the healers... normally the SK who drops Deathmartch).

I am considering using TOS on every pull or Reinforcement just to make things easier.

My original question was does a ward prevent Inflaming defence from triggering?

Healers are keeping me up fine, can complete labs no problem in about 2-3 hours. DPS is between 14-16k.

Problem is on groups of three when I body pull and one resists my grp taunt and makes for the defiler.

Solution:

- Body pull with TOS to give inflaming defence a chance to go off.
- Instruct SK to hold off on Deathmartch
- Use Dragoons cyclone and reinforcement to regain aggro if a mob get lose.
- Use Tab or /target_Closests_NPC to cycle through targets generating aggro.
- I may even respect out of Wisdom line? Don't know yet

Also I am not pulling whole rooms until I get at least I piece of fabled... ok

Yourbestfriend · 04-26-2007, 03:23 AM

Ok 1. Besiege is a 2 second cast time 2. I roll with a swash I am never without him. 3. If need be I can just group aoe taunt one set - target other - goading assault and have besiege the the ones that came in first. It doesn't matter - it's all easy. And let me rephrase, if your healers pull agro on the pull because of wards/reactives - that could happen - doesn't for me but I know that can happen, if you let them die tho - that's pretty freaking stupid. (This applys to multiple set pulling you shouldn't have any problem with one set of mobs). But anyway Level 55 Ancient Teachings "Sentry Watch" use it - it's awesome - you won't have any problems

Yourbestfriend · 04-26-2007, 03:24 AM

Also with the sk on Death March put him in the mage group with the troub so he gets spell procs and agitate. It's not a bad group for a dps SK. Anyway if he does pull agro big freaking deal if he's not a pansy he should be able to take some hits.

Yourbestfriend · 04-26-2007, 03:26 AM

DanielAtchison wrote:

I have always had in my MT group Guardian Defiler Templar Dirge Paladin Swashbuckler we have used it all thru KoS and now in EoF... works well for me

Why a paladin? Is he the MT or something? You shouldn't need the mitigation bud =p put a coercer in there or put one of your high dps classes there and give him moderate. As you said tho - works for you, I'm just curious.

Steve11418 · 04-26-2007, 09:29 PM

Ok did a quick respec last night.

Went with:

Agility / Intelligence KOS

Went Slaughtering and branched of to Reinforcement x 5 and Rescue x 5

Went to HOF for a test run.

Had Fury, Inquisitor, Ranger, Troubadour and another Guard.

Worked very well... Pulled whole room, hit Reinforcement, my 3 AOEs and plant. Rinse and Repeat.

Increased my DPS and had no problems holding aggro on multiple groups... Reinforcement on a 2 min timer is awesome.

Will see how I go on the next Labs run.

04-23-2007, 04:21 PM	#31
Snorm Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 125	Jaraxx@Lucan DLere wrote: Snorm wrote: Aristigon wrote: Pull like a fiend, as soon as one mob is dead, pop the next one. If the healers can keep up, you can just chain pull like you do heroics; grab the next encounter before the first one is completely dead, etc. If you are taking things hard enough that you have to actually be carefull on the pulls, take the time for a decent count to get all the buffs/heals out, otherwise just grab it. I figure a wipe costs between 3-8 min, assuming you don't have to replow because of repops, so don't push beyond a reasonable point. Except pull the entire room at once like a heroic zone. Have one healer be assigned to chain cure trauma for the first 20 seconds. AoE it down. It will bring some enjoyment in the zone and it will speed it up quite a bit. I'm not 100% sure that would work given that he's saying he's in mostly legendary, and the healers are already having issues keeping him up. That said, you're right, labs is more fun when you play it like HoF So... pulling rooms at a time with the guards [Removed for Content] [I cannot control my vocabulary] AOE hate.... In heroic zones, pulling 3 multimob encounters, I usually just arrow one group, click to target another group, hit the AE taunt, try to grab somethign in the third group, hit taunting attack... as soon as they are all reasonably within range, Plant, beseige. You can pop reinforcement in there somewhere if you want. Tab like a maniac and look for anything not pointing at you.... This works fine when people besides you can take a hit. In raids, the only issues I have with pulling mass encounters in KoS is losing healers if aggro slips... There you have pre-heals running ot a much greater extent, and your healers will go down faster. Sentry watch helps, as does intercepts, but my thought always is why take a zone 5 min faster if you're healers are going to walk out nekked instead of at 100%? So.... How do you keep aggro under control on the pull when pulling rooms at a time? Snorm

04-26-2007, 01:20 AM	#36
Steve11418 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 145	Just catching up on this thread after tanking Labs again. Thanks for all the input guys. Just to be clear the healers are not dieing... just losing agro straight away on body pulls and having to fight to get them back. (Not off the healers... normally the SK who drops Deathmartch). I am considering using TOS on every pull or Reinforcement just to make things easier. My original question was does a ward prevent Inflaming defence from triggering? Healers are keeping me up fine, can complete labs no problem in about 2-3 hours. DPS is between 14-16k. Problem is on groups of three when I body pull and one resists my grp taunt and makes for the defiler. Solution: - Body pull with TOS to give inflaming defence a chance to go off. - Instruct SK to hold off on Deathmartch - Use Dragoons cyclone and reinforcement to regain aggro if a mob get lose. - Use Tab or /target_Closests_NPC to cycle through targets generating aggro. - I may even respect out of Wisdom line? Don't know yet Also I am not pulling whole rooms until I get at least I piece of fabled... ok

04-26-2007, 03:26 AM	#39
Yourbestfriend Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 195	DanielAtchison wrote: I have always had in my MT group Guardian Defiler Templar Dirge Paladin Swashbuckler we have used it all thru KoS and now in EoF... works well for me Why a paladin? Is he the MT or something? You shouldn't need the mitigation bud =p put a coercer in there or put one of your high dps classes there and give him moderate. As you said tho - works for you, I'm just curious.

04-23-2007, 04:32 PM	#32
Yourbestfriend Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 195	Reinforcement and Besiege FTW. Then Swashbuckler hate transferto keep it off the warlock.

04-23-2007, 04:34 PM	#33
Yourbestfriend Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 195	No offense but if you are losing agro to your priests and having them die, I suggest you quit a guardian and play another class. I would feel compelled to give my healers 50 plat if they pulled agro and died. The challenging part is keeping agro off the warlock who is pulling up 6k dps.

04-23-2007, 06:49 PM	#34
Snorm Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 125	I'll say it one more time, how do you keep agro under control on the pull with 3+ sets of mobs on you? Beseige is like a 4 second cast, unless all the mobs get to you at once, that won't really work, and even if they did, the timing would have to be tight. Assuming you can actually get them all on you at any point in time, you can smack plant. There are two real options with mass quantities of unlinked mobs, either your healers are not prehealing at all giving you a couple free hits to get things locked down, or other tanks are helping you out. Or I suppose you just let the healers die a lot and you can feel super uber about setting a new landspeed record in labs. Incedentally, holding 3+ sets of mobs w/o a swash is something of a trick as well. Can be done, but aggro us usually going to be a bit slippery. If aggro ever slips to a healer after the assist on a non mem wiping mob, all the tanks and DPS should be fired. Snorm

04-23-2007, 07:48 PM	#35
DanielAtchison Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: VA Posts: 119	I have always had in my MT group Guardian Defiler Templar Dirge Paladin Swashbuckler we have used it all thru KoS and now in EoF... works well for me

04-26-2007, 03:23 AM	#37
Yourbestfriend Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 195	Ok 1. Besiege is a 2 second cast time 2. I roll with a swash I am never without him. 3. If need be I can just group aoe taunt one set - target other - goading assault and have besiege the the ones that came in first. It doesn't matter - it's all easy. And let me rephrase, if your healers pull agro on the pull because of wards/reactives - that could happen - doesn't for me but I know that can happen, if you let them die tho - that's pretty freaking stupid. (This applys to multiple set pulling you shouldn't have any problem with one set of mobs). But anyway Level 55 Ancient Teachings "Sentry Watch" use it - it's awesome - you won't have any problems

04-26-2007, 03:24 AM	#38
Yourbestfriend Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 195	Also with the sk on Death March put him in the mage group with the troub so he gets spell procs and agitate. It's not a bad group for a dps SK. Anyway if he does pull agro big freaking deal if he's not a pansy he should be able to take some hits.

04-26-2007, 09:29 PM	#40
Steve11418 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 145	Ok did a quick respec last night. Went with: Agility / Intelligence KOS Went Slaughtering and branched of to Reinforcement x 5 and Rescue x 5 Went to HOF for a test run. Had Fury, Inquisitor, Ranger, Troubadour and another Guard. Worked very well... Pulled whole room, hit Reinforcement, my 3 AOEs and plant. Rinse and Repeat. Increased my DPS and had no problems holding aggro on multiple groups... Reinforcement on a 2 min timer is awesome. Will see how I go on the next Labs run.