Amazing Reflexes - the nerf is in... - Page 2

exacutionarhead · 11-03-2006, 08:32 PM

I think i would have to agree with goonch on that though. needless to say the non named mobs dont hit too hard with aoes if they have any. i think the only time i got powned with out my amzing reflexes up was on the first named in hos. and as for jousting its not hard had to do it with my conjurer all the time till i found that "sweet" spot were i could stand with out getting hit and what not. but i guess time will be the only thing to tell when we get goign i think we have maybe anoughter week or 2 before launch i think if my figures are right and if what im told is correct.

airies

Goonch · 11-03-2006, 08:39 PM

ThunderFunky wrote:

Like i said at the bottom of my previous posting Gonch, the only reason for this change can be massive changes in AOEs come EOF else there would be no reason to screw brigands.

I agree. They must be changing alot when it comes to AEs in beta/test/EOF for this change to occur.

Personally i have next to no resist gear as i always pass on that gear for my guildies to have and equip their toons / resist gear

I'm in the same boat as you it sucks. Not to mention I've sold 75% of my clamore rewards.

AR is our key ability in my mind, without it it will make debuffs harder to land

I disagree, but /shrug.

Are you really telling me u think we can get close to swashie dps with jousting given their burst dps let alone other classes

I think most of swashies burst dps comes in group encounters because of hurricane, other wise the amount of burst is pretty similar on single target. I think mobs in EOF that have huge AEs like Chel'drak and Matron I won't be doing 1kish dps anymore for sure. But I do think that regardless on those mobs that the swashies will do that much more damage. It will depend on the encounter and group make up.

i take insults on the chin and ignore them so no big deal there
Ok.

Message Edited by Goonch on 11-03-2006 10:39 AM

exacutionarhead · 11-03-2006, 08:42 PM

Well depending on the mob i use to be able to pass the swashy on the parser. but that was on like single mobs and i was pushing hard on it cuse i knew i could do it SMILEY

but yea hurican helps the swash out on the group mobs hardcore.

Goonch · 11-03-2006, 08:45 PM

Yes Im bored at work today hence the 100 replies so far.

I parse more than swashies never/rarely on group mobs and some/most of the time on single target if we have the same group make up. That plays a big part.

Message Edited by Goonch on 11-03-2006 10:47 AM

Goonch · 11-03-2006, 08:45 PM

grrrr double post. sorry.

Message Edited by Goonch on 11-03-2006 10:46 AM

exacutionarhead · 11-03-2006, 08:48 PM

Yea its all on the group make up i know when i have about 60haste and dps i threw a lot of dps out but once i loose one or both of those abilities my cass go down the craper. i dont have any gear thats really great great only two pieces of relics hat and boots and i was parsing about 5th on most of the mobs in labs i think if i can rember correctly.

Vampyr · 11-03-2006, 08:50 PM

I was just venting and maybe this was a bad place to do it. This change should have happend BEFORE Kingdom of Sky came out IMO. AR was/is broken for an entire expansion they changed it a few times during DoF but they let it be broken for KoS. Lost reflexes did nothing at all. Then came Fallen Dynasty where they designed two encounters that a lot of people said you need at least one brigand to beat. Of course that's not true it just helps a lot to have a brig with you on those two fights. I still think they should have left deceitfulness alone though, it was fine the way it was. And no, I won't betray to a swashbuckler.

ThunderFunky · 11-03-2006, 08:54 PM

Yeah its about group make ups i know

But if you put a swash & brigand in the same group, with similar buffage... a "skilled" swashie should currently beat a brigand, on a non joust encounter obviously

Now , given the AR savageing, on lets say matron type encounter, the swashie should easily pawn a brigand on dps and by some large margin

I think this is where my pain is coming from...

exacutionarhead · 11-03-2006, 08:57 PM

Well the way ive always looked at my lacking dps thunder is this. we might be lacking in dps. but think of how much more dps we are given the other dpsers then if we werent there. so really if you add how much more dmg your other people in the raid or group are doing then add to yours that basicly how much dps you are doing. just cuse you are maken others hit harder and often then they would of if you werent there. a friend told me this and it made it seem about right.

ThunderFunky · 11-03-2006, 09:04 PM

Yes thats always been the case, we add tons to raid dps

however

i actually like parsing 1000-1300 dps, i dont wanna be a pure debuffer with a joke of a dps

SOOOOOOOO wish they would let us change our claymore rewards....suddenly that garbage DW is now looking amazingly attractive

exacutionarhead · 11-03-2006, 09:07 PM

Yea i will agree with you the 1k dps is nice to have. i know sometimes i wish i could be more then just a debuffer as well but if i want that all i have to do is betrayl and i can be a more of a dps i know of a swash that normaly can stay on the top of the parser. but the way i look it at is he wouldnt be there if there wasnt a brig or something there to help along the way so to speak. he might be up there with out a brig but it would be easier with us brigands. but yea i have though of doing it but then again i never really betryaled just cuse i dont think i could do that to this toon

Bhronn · 11-03-2006, 09:17 PM

Im going to try and not fan the fire. But I am also going to give most of you a heads up. I am in Fires of Heaven and have done every raid encounter in eof currently. I am not at liberty to discuss those encounters nor even named them. But I will tell you my dps has dropped 400 points on avg and until healers begin to heal a brig you can expect to die.. alot which also nulls the debuffs and even more nulls the dps. Im not going to say the world is falling because brigs will still play but instead of griping here you need to be out getting your brig prepared for it. there are some bright hope because myself and other guild brigs have sent some suggestions in that might get implemented but you still need to get prepared. The game just changed and you will need to play your class, I wont say completely different, but different from how you play now. yes I am being cryptic for obvious reasons and still be able to tell you to get your brig prepared. You got little over a week.Innocent FoH

exacutionarhead · 11-03-2006, 09:19 PM

Looks like i have to start to buy crap resist gear to start to get them prepaired i guess that way i dont take too much dmg from stupid mobs. o well i guess. atelast i can start to get it going i guess.

airies

DarkMirrax · 11-03-2006, 09:24 PM

Bhronn wrote:
Im going to try and not fan the fire. But I am also going to give most of you a heads up. I am in Fires of Heaven and have done every raid encounter in eof currently. I am not at liberty to discuss those encounters nor even named them. But I will tell you my dps has dropped 400 points on avg and until healers begin to heal a brig you can expect to die.. alot which also nulls the debuffs and even more nulls the dps. Im not going to say the world is falling because brigs will still play but instead of griping here you need to be out getting your brig prepared for it. there are some bright hope because myself and other guild brigs have sent some suggestions in that might get implemented but you still need to get prepared. The game just changed and you will need to play your class, I wont say completely different, but different from how you play now. yes I am being cryptic for obvious reasons and still be able to tell you to get your brig prepared. You got little over a week.

Innocent
FoH

Yup and its not live YET brusiers had a few last minute changes made just before KoS hit so nothing is set in stone until its live ....... soe do read our posts and ideas even if you think they dont :smileywink:

sobek_eq2 · 11-03-2006, 10:12 PM

Goonch wrote:

Vampyrus wrote:
People that say this nerf won't lower our dps a lot is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Up until EoF we could focus on using gear that provided bonuses to our overall dps but soon we will have to drop damage proc gear and such for resist gear unless you are "playing it safe" by ranged autoattacking and waiting for AE to hit then rush in to dispatch+devitalize+rake and then run out again. I'll try it this way: Put on resist gear which will lower my overall dps by around 3-10% and spam CAs constantly and hope AR will trigger before the next AE.

I can see it now, I'll die so many times the first time we do Chel'Drak after EoF... BAM!!! 25k poison/disease damage because AR didn't proc at the right moment.

I've never made a personal attack on these boards but this post made me come real close. How long have you played a brigand? Did you even raid T5? There are 2 fights our dps will drop a bit on that are in game currently. Chel'drak and Matron. Our dps will be the same or close on all other current content. I can't speak for the new content obv. Do you see swashies getting one-shotted by chel'drak... mmmm no.... because all you need to do is to get 14+ meters behind him.

And saying that dps mods are more important than haste mods just shows how much you know your class.

The good brigands will survive. Go buy resist gear while its cheap. I am by no means pleased by this change but something needed to happen, I just don't think it needed to be this extreme. My beef from the get go has been that this is an ancient spell and should be "useful", and in my opinion the ability needs to be reliable, ie a short term buff, and not a % proc. As a % proc it is useless to me and I won't rely on it.

Any of you brigands on test want to verify the hate gain aspect of this spell and whether it still exists?

This is my problem, SOE lacks any sense of proportion. AR needed to be changed - it didn't need to be rendered useless, and the non-deterministic behavior of the proc makes it useless.

mikemcmodmi · 11-03-2006, 10:52 PM

I'm betting there will be lots of aoes like matron and chel'drak in the expansion. Otherwise why nurf AR.

A 400 dps decrease is a big hit. That blows. I think I parse high for a brigand atm but still, 400 dps is a huge blow. Massive. Autoattack is such a large amount of our damage I just can't believe we'd drop that much. That's really sad. I'm stunned atm so don't know what to say, but that's such a large hit we almost seem useless.

Rommie10-284 · 11-03-2006, 11:13 PM

Just to answer a question buried in here - the hate part of AR is gone, it's just the lottery chance.It looks like I'm going to get to raid on Test tonight, so I'll get to see the new AR in action.I'll report my results when it's over on the board (assuming Test doesn't crash/update/behave badly)

Myrcul · 11-03-2006, 11:23 PM

Thanks Sony, you rock.

/sarcasm

Kegofbud · 11-04-2006, 12:44 AM

I agree with Goonch on pretty much all his points. He's right, there aren't a lot of encounters that it's going to really kill us on. The only other one off the top of my head that he didn't mention was Talendor. Here's my problem with the change:

It really is useless as a proc. Give me control of it every couple minutes, I could deal with that better. I can't believe they are giving a better, group version to swashes while they give us a proc. It kind of pisses me off. Why have a 2nd brigand on a raid now if the DPS does in fact drop? Some other class abilities will be more useful for their utility then on dispatch every minute. Our main debuffs stay up a while with the exception of dispatch. The key to ARs usefulness was the being able to attack the whole time, while applying debuffs. We'll still be able to dodge and apply debuffs, but the damage on jousting certain encounters will drop. So, since I've taken this worthless Kilij as my claymore reward, bet i can't switch to the DW model to use on special encounters...thanks for that! It's the gear I've sold or passed up, that now I can't get back, that really frosts me.

On the change of Deceit, I kind of like it. The haste gives me more swings for procs. DPS buff doesn't give you that.

Goonch · 11-04-2006, 12:47 AM

Don't worry Choad theres no way to tell when the DW procs so it doesn't matter.

And thanks, Innocent, for your post, any resist gear in particular we should 'prepare for'? :smileyvery-happy: But in all serious I'm going to bud up with some Swashy guildies because I am clueless what to buy in terms of resist gear. Never even had to think about it, heh.

Message Edited by Goonch on 11-03-2006 02:48 PM

Diapause · 11-04-2006, 01:03 AM

The short-sided view from all the nerf-bat lovers is that Brigand help raised the overall raid DPS by us being constantly under the AE umbrella applying our debuffs.

So all the wizzies hitting 25k Fusion and 16k Ice Novas, there was a reason u were doing that. All the Summoner with scout pets hitting 2k DPS on the parse, guess where a good chunk of that came from?

More raid DPS = Faster Raid mob dies = Less AE's = Less overall healing = better chance for PHAT LEWTZ!

Short-sided indeed...

XhaleSlow · 11-04-2006, 01:22 AM

This nerf does it for me, as a 70 Brig with 50 AA's....i have no compunction of leveling another character to 70 so that SoE can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it all over again when i get there, this nerf goes live, i find another game. SoE will NOT get another [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing DIME from me.

Dreamtrap

70 [Removed for Content] off Brig Nektulos server

Kegofbud · 11-04-2006, 02:23 AM

Diapause wrote:

The short-sided view from all the nerf-bat lovers is that Brigand help raised the overall raid DPS by us being constantly under the AE umbrella applying our debuffs.

So all the wizzies hitting 25k Fusion and 16k Ice Novas, there was a reason u were doing that. All the Summoner with scout pets hitting 2k DPS on the parse, guess where a good chunk of that came from?

More raid DPS = Faster Raid mob dies = Less AE's = Less overall healing = better chance for PHAT LEWTZ!

Short-sided indeed...

The term you're looking for is "short sighted". Short-sided is when one team plays with less players then the other...a handicap if you will.

You're over-reacting. The reason they are doing that damage WILL STILL BE THERE. How many AEs last full time? They happen, you joust and run back in, on maybe 3 encounters. Most encoutners you can eat the AE with resist gear. Devitilize and Rake have 72 second timers with a lower recast. I've yet to see an AE that lasted 12 seconds where I couldn't reapply it before it dropped because of a joust. All 3 of our mitagation debuffs are on half second casting times. So, in under 2 seconds you can drop all 3 of those in one trip in easily. Tell me how that hurts any one else's raid DPS?

Sure, our DPS will drop on some encounters. Sure, AR is completely useless now. I'm not happy about that either. I hate the changes. I want it replaced with a useful skill or AR to be a skill I can trigger when I want. Maybe even a boost in damage would be nice. Just don't argue and supply a stupid point about everyone's else's DPS that just isn't true. The only way everyone else's DPS in the raid drops, because of this change, is because the brigand at the controls isn't doing his/her job properly.

Bhronn · 11-04-2006, 03:12 AM

i was trying not to reply but some responses from people who think it still will be easy to drop our debuffs and joust or eat AE's are going to be the same ones who come here in a month and speak differently. Not to jerk my own chain but , myself and my guild brigs are probably the most informed brigs on the changes coming in this whole game. And im telling you that as it stands, I would from this point, turn off AR on live and start getting your healers looking at your name on thier raid screens. That also applies to your cures too.Edit: but again its just a suggestion.innocentFoH

Message Edited by Bhronn on 11-03-2006 02:14 PM

NemaLVey · 11-04-2006, 06:32 AM

DPS > Haste.

There are many haste items, but 1 DPS item. So technically haste is pretty easy to get capped first.

DPS is consistent damage addition to auto-attack and CA damage, regardless of weapon type and delay used. Besides, we have 2 separate, timed, DPS boost abilities.

Haste makes you hit more often with auto attack only, but does not guarantee you will miss less ( hit/miss ratio remains the same). Also depending on the type of weapon you use, will yield great or not so great effects. If your tanking, you will get riposted more often too ( some Dev said something to that effect ).

I like consistency personally, and knowing it has a greater effect on everything that does damage.

And for those that don't think your DPS isn't going to suffer horrendously...ponder upon this. We had AR, so we needed no resists, so we maxed out Str, to max out DPS, and fought the mobs from beginning to end, while still being out parsed by Assassins, wizards, conjur, necro and warlocks. We are T2 dps and T1 spike damage. Now you will lose your Str, to have resist gear, which lowers your damage, in a world where your no longer capped, and now under par from the word " LOADING". Our DPS tier will be 3 with spikes of 2... maybe.

"Way I see it, we're all on the Hindenburg, no use fighting over the window seat" ( Richard Jenni )

EDIT: Forgot to check spelling :smileysad:

Message Edited by NemaLVey on 11-03-2006 09:44 PM

Mayhem2k · 11-04-2006, 07:06 AM

Double whammy.

Haste on that buff is useless...MOD is way better..should stay the same.

Proc on AR and no DPS increase so we can do Troub/Dirge dps..or even less..priceless.

I'm so looking forward to this expansion..not.

sobek_eq2 · 11-04-2006, 08:34 AM

Mayhem2k wrote:

Double whammy.

Haste on that buff is useless...MOD is way better..should stay the same.

Proc on AR and no DPS increase so we can do Troub/Dirge dps..or even less..priceless.

I'm so looking forward to this expansion..not.

Triple wammy, our EoF class AAs suck.

SorynD · 11-04-2006, 11:12 AM

Well now that the NDA is lifted i can talk about this. AR did need to be changed i agree, the way they did it though was not the way it should have been done & beleave me, us brig that have been on the beta server & forums have talked to the dev till we are blue in the face....but all that talking might have goten us some place. few of us have been working with the dev & were taken on some raids & asked for feedback, AR as a proc of any % is just not working so Dymus from what i understand is looking into making it into a toggle CA of sorts. how it'll work if they go this way is: AR will be like the monk invis or sprint were it'll tick 400 power a tick abouts as long as its up, now were not going to want to have it up all the time or we'll be without power but it has to tick a lot of power to making use'n it tricky. we feel this is prob the best change & will make use'n AR fun CA with skill needed to use effectivly.

Saryn of FoH

Message Edited by SorynD on 11-03-2006 10:15 PM

Seiden · 11-04-2006, 03:15 PM

now that the NDA was lifted, I am able to use my new sig!

XhaleSlow · 11-04-2006, 04:12 PM

Any nerf is wrong to this skill, and any of you people who are "sucking it up and taking it" or "looking for better ways to nerf it" just need to shut the hell up and betray to swash.

11-03-2006, 08:39 PM	#32
Goonch Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 367	ThunderFunky wrote: Like i said at the bottom of my previous posting Gonch, the only reason for this change can be massive changes in AOEs come EOF else there would be no reason to screw brigands. I agree. They must be changing alot when it comes to AEs in beta/test/EOF for this change to occur. Personally i have next to no resist gear as i always pass on that gear for my guildies to have and equip their toons / resist gear I'm in the same boat as you it sucks. Not to mention I've sold 75% of my clamore rewards. AR is our key ability in my mind, without it it will make debuffs harder to land I disagree, but /shrug. Are you really telling me u think we can get close to swashie dps with jousting given their burst dps let alone other classes I think most of swashies burst dps comes in group encounters because of hurricane, other wise the amount of burst is pretty similar on single target. I think mobs in EOF that have huge AEs like Chel'drak and Matron I won't be doing 1kish dps anymore for sure. But I do think that regardless on those mobs that the swashies will do that much more damage. It will depend on the encounter and group make up. i take insults on the chin and ignore them so no big deal there Ok. Message Edited by Goonch on 11-03-2006 10:39 AM __________________

11-03-2006, 08:42 PM	#33
exacutionarhead Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 40	Well depending on the mob i use to be able to pass the swashy on the parser. but that was on like single mobs and i was pushing hard on it cuse i knew i could do it but yea hurican helps the swash out on the group mobs hardcore.

11-03-2006, 08:45 PM	#34
Goonch Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 367	Yes Im bored at work today hence the 100 replies so far. I parse more than swashies never/rarely on group mobs and some/most of the time on single target if we have the same group make up. That plays a big part. Message Edited by Goonch on 11-03-2006 10:47 AM __________________

11-03-2006, 08:45 PM	#35
Goonch Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 367	grrrr double post. sorry. Message Edited by Goonch on 11-03-2006 10:46 AM __________________

11-03-2006, 09:24 PM	#44
DarkMirrax Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,238	Bhronn wrote: Im going to try and not fan the fire. But I am also going to give most of you a heads up. I am in Fires of Heaven and have done every raid encounter in eof currently. I am not at liberty to discuss those encounters nor even named them. But I will tell you my dps has dropped 400 points on avg and until healers begin to heal a brig you can expect to die.. alot which also nulls the debuffs and even more nulls the dps. Im not going to say the world is falling because brigs will still play but instead of griping here you need to be out getting your brig prepared for it. there are some bright hope because myself and other guild brigs have sent some suggestions in that might get implemented but you still need to get prepared. The game just changed and you will need to play your class, I wont say completely different, but different from how you play now. yes I am being cryptic for obvious reasons and still be able to tell you to get your brig prepared. You got little over a week. Innocent FoH Yup and its not live YET brusiers had a few last minute changes made just before KoS hit so nothing is set in stone until its live ....... soe do read our posts and ideas even if you think they dont :smileywink: __________________ Q - Named and epics get + to hit which makes avoidance tanking suck. A- Yes they do, and yes it does =========================== Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard Game Designer, EverQuest II ... Whats Amazing Reflexes ?? ....... ===========================

11-03-2006, 08:32 PM	#31
exacutionarhead Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 40	I think i would have to agree with goonch on that though. needless to say the non named mobs dont hit too hard with aoes if they have any. i think the only time i got powned with out my amzing reflexes up was on the first named in hos. and as for jousting its not hard had to do it with my conjurer all the time till i found that "sweet" spot were i could stand with out getting hit and what not. but i guess time will be the only thing to tell when we get goign i think we have maybe anoughter week or 2 before launch i think if my figures are right and if what im told is correct. airies

11-03-2006, 08:48 PM	#36
exacutionarhead Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 40	Yea its all on the group make up i know when i have about 60haste and dps i threw a lot of dps out but once i loose one or both of those abilities my cass go down the craper. i dont have any gear thats really great great only two pieces of relics hat and boots and i was parsing about 5th on most of the mobs in labs i think if i can rember correctly.

11-03-2006, 08:50 PM	#37
Vampyr General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 19	I was just venting and maybe this was a bad place to do it. This change should have happend BEFORE Kingdom of Sky came out IMO. AR was/is broken for an entire expansion they changed it a few times during DoF but they let it be broken for KoS. Lost reflexes did nothing at all. Then came Fallen Dynasty where they designed two encounters that a lot of people said you need at least one brigand to beat. Of course that's not true it just helps a lot to have a brig with you on those two fights. I still think they should have left deceitfulness alone though, it was fine the way it was. And no, I won't betray to a swashbuckler.

11-03-2006, 08:54 PM	#38
ThunderFunky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 38	Yeah its about group make ups i know But if you put a swash & brigand in the same group, with similar buffage... a "skilled" swashie should currently beat a brigand, on a non joust encounter obviously Now , given the AR savageing, on lets say matron type encounter, the swashie should easily pawn a brigand on dps and by some large margin I think this is where my pain is coming from...

11-03-2006, 08:57 PM	#39
exacutionarhead Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 40	Well the way ive always looked at my lacking dps thunder is this. we might be lacking in dps. but think of how much more dps we are given the other dpsers then if we werent there. so really if you add how much more dmg your other people in the raid or group are doing then add to yours that basicly how much dps you are doing. just cuse you are maken others hit harder and often then they would of if you werent there. a friend told me this and it made it seem about right.

11-03-2006, 09:04 PM	#40
ThunderFunky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 38	Yes thats always been the case, we add tons to raid dps however i actually like parsing 1000-1300 dps, i dont wanna be a pure debuffer with a joke of a dps SOOOOOOOO wish they would let us change our claymore rewards....suddenly that garbage DW is now looking amazingly attractive

11-03-2006, 09:07 PM	#41
exacutionarhead Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 40	Yea i will agree with you the 1k dps is nice to have. i know sometimes i wish i could be more then just a debuffer as well but if i want that all i have to do is betrayl and i can be a more of a dps i know of a swash that normaly can stay on the top of the parser. but the way i look it at is he wouldnt be there if there wasnt a brig or something there to help along the way so to speak. he might be up there with out a brig but it would be easier with us brigands. but yea i have though of doing it but then again i never really betryaled just cuse i dont think i could do that to this toon

11-03-2006, 09:17 PM	#42
Bhronn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 62	Im going to try and not fan the fire. But I am also going to give most of you a heads up. I am in Fires of Heaven and have done every raid encounter in eof currently. I am not at liberty to discuss those encounters nor even named them. But I will tell you my dps has dropped 400 points on avg and until healers begin to heal a brig you can expect to die.. alot which also nulls the debuffs and even more nulls the dps. Im not going to say the world is falling because brigs will still play but instead of griping here you need to be out getting your brig prepared for it. there are some bright hope because myself and other guild brigs have sent some suggestions in that might get implemented but you still need to get prepared. The game just changed and you will need to play your class, I wont say completely different, but different from how you play now. yes I am being cryptic for obvious reasons and still be able to tell you to get your brig prepared. You got little over a week.Innocent FoH

11-03-2006, 09:19 PM	#43
exacutionarhead Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 40	Looks like i have to start to buy crap resist gear to start to get them prepaired i guess that way i dont take too much dmg from stupid mobs. o well i guess. atelast i can start to get it going i guess. airies

11-03-2006, 10:12 PM	#45
sobek_eq2 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 32	Goonch wrote: Vampyrus wrote: People that say this nerf won't lower our dps a lot is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Up until EoF we could focus on using gear that provided bonuses to our overall dps but soon we will have to drop damage proc gear and such for resist gear unless you are "playing it safe" by ranged autoattacking and waiting for AE to hit then rush in to dispatch+devitalize+rake and then run out again. I'll try it this way: Put on resist gear which will lower my overall dps by around 3-10% and spam CAs constantly and hope AR will trigger before the next AE. I can see it now, I'll die so many times the first time we do Chel'Drak after EoF... BAM!!! 25k poison/disease damage because AR didn't proc at the right moment. I've never made a personal attack on these boards but this post made me come real close. How long have you played a brigand? Did you even raid T5? There are 2 fights our dps will drop a bit on that are in game currently. Chel'drak and Matron. Our dps will be the same or close on all other current content. I can't speak for the new content obv. Do you see swashies getting one-shotted by chel'drak... mmmm no.... because all you need to do is to get 14+ meters behind him. And saying that dps mods are more important than haste mods just shows how much you know your class. The good brigands will survive. Go buy resist gear while its cheap. I am by no means pleased by this change but something needed to happen, I just don't think it needed to be this extreme. My beef from the get go has been that this is an ancient spell and should be "useful", and in my opinion the ability needs to be reliable, ie a short term buff, and not a % proc. As a % proc it is useless to me and I won't rely on it. Any of you brigands on test want to verify the hate gain aspect of this spell and whether it still exists? This is my problem, SOE lacks any sense of proportion. AR needed to be changed - it didn't need to be rendered useless, and the non-deterministic behavior of the proc makes it useless.

11-03-2006, 10:52 PM	#46
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	I'm betting there will be lots of aoes like matron and chel'drak in the expansion. Otherwise why nurf AR. A 400 dps decrease is a big hit. That blows. I think I parse high for a brigand atm but still, 400 dps is a huge blow. Massive. Autoattack is such a large amount of our damage I just can't believe we'd drop that much. That's really sad. I'm stunned atm so don't know what to say, but that's such a large hit we almost seem useless.

11-03-2006, 11:13 PM	#47
Rommie10-284 Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Systems Commonwealth Posts: 97	Just to answer a question buried in here - the hate part of AR is gone, it's just the lottery chance.It looks like I'm going to get to raid on Test tonight, so I'll get to see the new AR in action.I'll report my results when it's over on the board (assuming Test doesn't crash/update/behave badly) __________________ -------------------------------------------------------- Avatars are people too. \|\| Member of Vengeance [Test] Tamari - 80 Guardian/80 Woodworker \|\| Tyena - 80 Templar/80 Provisioner Tenira - 82 Coercer \|\| Aliplozz - 74 Swashbuckler

11-03-2006, 11:23 PM	#48
Myrcul Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 86	Thanks Sony, you rock. /sarcasm

11-04-2006, 12:44 AM	#49
Kegofbud Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 925	I agree with Goonch on pretty much all his points. He's right, there aren't a lot of encounters that it's going to really kill us on. The only other one off the top of my head that he didn't mention was Talendor. Here's my problem with the change: It really is useless as a proc. Give me control of it every couple minutes, I could deal with that better. I can't believe they are giving a better, group version to swashes while they give us a proc. It kind of pisses me off. Why have a 2nd brigand on a raid now if the DPS does in fact drop? Some other class abilities will be more useful for their utility then on dispatch every minute. Our main debuffs stay up a while with the exception of dispatch. The key to ARs usefulness was the being able to attack the whole time, while applying debuffs. We'll still be able to dodge and apply debuffs, but the damage on jousting certain encounters will drop. So, since I've taken this worthless Kilij as my claymore reward, bet i can't switch to the DW model to use on special encounters...thanks for that! It's the gear I've sold or passed up, that now I can't get back, that really frosts me. On the change of Deceit, I kind of like it. The haste gives me more swings for procs. DPS buff doesn't give you that. __________________ Choatly - 90 Defiler

11-04-2006, 12:47 AM	#50
Goonch Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 367	Don't worry Choad theres no way to tell when the DW procs so it doesn't matter. And thanks, Innocent, for your post, any resist gear in particular we should 'prepare for'? :smileyvery-happy: But in all serious I'm going to bud up with some Swashy guildies because I am clueless what to buy in terms of resist gear. Never even had to think about it, heh. Message Edited by Goonch on 11-03-2006 02:48 PM __________________

11-04-2006, 01:03 AM	#51
Diapause Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 105	The short-sided view from all the nerf-bat lovers is that Brigand help raised the overall raid DPS by us being constantly under the AE umbrella applying our debuffs. So all the wizzies hitting 25k Fusion and 16k Ice Novas, there was a reason u were doing that. All the Summoner with scout pets hitting 2k DPS on the parse, guess where a good chunk of that came from? More raid DPS = Faster Raid mob dies = Less AE's = Less overall healing = better chance for PHAT LEWTZ! Short-sided indeed...

11-04-2006, 01:22 AM	#52
XhaleSlow General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 15	This nerf does it for me, as a 70 Brig with 50 AA's....i have no compunction of leveling another character to 70 so that SoE can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it all over again when i get there, this nerf goes live, i find another game. SoE will NOT get another [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing DIME from me. Dreamtrap 70 [Removed for Content] off Brig Nektulos server

11-04-2006, 02:23 AM	#53
Kegofbud Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 925	Diapause wrote: The short-sided view from all the nerf-bat lovers is that Brigand help raised the overall raid DPS by us being constantly under the AE umbrella applying our debuffs. So all the wizzies hitting 25k Fusion and 16k Ice Novas, there was a reason u were doing that. All the Summoner with scout pets hitting 2k DPS on the parse, guess where a good chunk of that came from? More raid DPS = Faster Raid mob dies = Less AE's = Less overall healing = better chance for PHAT LEWTZ! Short-sided indeed... The term you're looking for is "short sighted". Short-sided is when one team plays with less players then the other...a handicap if you will. You're over-reacting. The reason they are doing that damage WILL STILL BE THERE. How many AEs last full time? They happen, you joust and run back in, on maybe 3 encounters. Most encoutners you can eat the AE with resist gear. Devitilize and Rake have 72 second timers with a lower recast. I've yet to see an AE that lasted 12 seconds where I couldn't reapply it before it dropped because of a joust. All 3 of our mitagation debuffs are on half second casting times. So, in under 2 seconds you can drop all 3 of those in one trip in easily. Tell me how that hurts any one else's raid DPS? Sure, our DPS will drop on some encounters. Sure, AR is completely useless now. I'm not happy about that either. I hate the changes. I want it replaced with a useful skill or AR to be a skill I can trigger when I want. Maybe even a boost in damage would be nice. Just don't argue and supply a stupid point about everyone's else's DPS that just isn't true. The only way everyone else's DPS in the raid drops, because of this change, is because the brigand at the controls isn't doing his/her job properly. __________________ Choatly - 90 Defiler

11-04-2006, 03:12 AM	#54
Bhronn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 62	i was trying not to reply but some responses from people who think it still will be easy to drop our debuffs and joust or eat AE's are going to be the same ones who come here in a month and speak differently. Not to jerk my own chain but , myself and my guild brigs are probably the most informed brigs on the changes coming in this whole game. And im telling you that as it stands, I would from this point, turn off AR on live and start getting your healers looking at your name on thier raid screens. That also applies to your cures too.Edit: but again its just a suggestion.innocentFoH Message Edited by Bhronn on 11-03-2006 02:14 PM

11-04-2006, 06:32 AM	#55
NemaLVey Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 154	DPS > Haste. There are many haste items, but 1 DPS item. So technically haste is pretty easy to get capped first. DPS is consistent damage addition to auto-attack and CA damage, regardless of weapon type and delay used. Besides, we have 2 separate, timed, DPS boost abilities. Haste makes you hit more often with auto attack only, but does not guarantee you will miss less ( hit/miss ratio remains the same). Also depending on the type of weapon you use, will yield great or not so great effects. If your tanking, you will get riposted more often too ( some Dev said something to that effect ). I like consistency personally, and knowing it has a greater effect on everything that does damage. And for those that don't think your DPS isn't going to suffer horrendously...ponder upon this. We had AR, so we needed no resists, so we maxed out Str, to max out DPS, and fought the mobs from beginning to end, while still being out parsed by Assassins, wizards, conjur, necro and warlocks. We are T2 dps and T1 spike damage. Now you will lose your Str, to have resist gear, which lowers your damage, in a world where your no longer capped, and now under par from the word " LOADING". Our DPS tier will be 3 with spikes of 2... maybe. "Way I see it, we're all on the Hindenburg, no use fighting over the window seat" ( Richard Jenni ) EDIT: Forgot to check spelling :smileysad: Message Edited by NemaLVey on 11-03-2006 09:44 PM

11-04-2006, 07:06 AM	#56
Mayhem2k Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15	Double whammy. Haste on that buff is useless...MOD is way better..should stay the same. Proc on AR and no DPS increase so we can do Troub/Dirge dps..or even less..priceless. I'm so looking forward to this expansion..not.

11-04-2006, 08:34 AM	#57
sobek_eq2 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 32	Mayhem2k wrote: Double whammy. Haste on that buff is useless...MOD is way better..should stay the same. Proc on AR and no DPS increase so we can do Troub/Dirge dps..or even less..priceless. I'm so looking forward to this expansion..not. Triple wammy, our EoF class AAs suck.

11-04-2006, 11:12 AM	#58
SorynD Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56	Well now that the NDA is lifted i can talk about this. AR did need to be changed i agree, the way they did it though was not the way it should have been done & beleave me, us brig that have been on the beta server & forums have talked to the dev till we are blue in the face....but all that talking might have goten us some place. few of us have been working with the dev & were taken on some raids & asked for feedback, AR as a proc of any % is just not working so Dymus from what i understand is looking into making it into a toggle CA of sorts. how it'll work if they go this way is: AR will be like the monk invis or sprint were it'll tick 400 power a tick abouts as long as its up, now were not going to want to have it up all the time or we'll be without power but it has to tick a lot of power to making use'n it tricky. we feel this is prob the best change & will make use'n AR fun CA with skill needed to use effectivly. Saryn of FoH Message Edited by SorynD on 11-03-2006 10:15 PM __________________

11-04-2006, 03:15 PM	#59
Seiden Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 185	now that the NDA was lifted, I am able to use my new sig!

11-04-2006, 04:12 PM	#60
XhaleSlow General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 15	Any nerf is wrong to this skill, and any of you people who are "sucking it up and taking it" or "looking for better ways to nerf it" just need to shut the hell up and betray to swash.