straw poll - happy or unhappy? - Page 2

Sorano · 09-17-2005, 03:24 AM

Aye our direct heals definitely need to be adjusted. We just don't have the ability to deal with spike damage. The problem is once a tank has dropped to the orange, you have to spam heal to get them back up and our DH's just don't keep up. We simply have no margin for error with our healing. Miss a heal, because you turned your head to take a drink for a second and it's very likely your tank will die. Our healing output at the moment is very close to mob damage, so we do not have the luxury of making any mistakes. It's quite stressful knowing that one lapse in concentration will likely spell doom for your group. That is seriously going to impact on how others start viewing wardens as a healing class, because as it stands now, you have to be a very good player with good gear and spell upgrades in order to keep your group alive as a sole healer. When groups start wiping with players who have average gear/spells, wardens are going to start getting the [Removed for Content] healer tag.

SOE need to adjust the inital heal values on our direct heals. A 300 hp and 400 hp DH is just not cutting it at the moment. And I simply detest how there is now range value on our heals, like whoever you are healing is mitigating your heals. I have absolutely no idea why that system was implemented, and it just makes things that much worse for wardens because we are the class with the most amount of heal ticks, so are subjected to the most randomness in our heal values.

Icewolf99 · 09-17-2005, 04:42 AM

Level 45 warden and I think we got shafted too. I miss my Selmekia's pride, i really liked the ghost lion and the speed boost. I can't solo any where close to what i did before, run out of power a lot sooner. And heals,, well just dont go there, what a joke.

LordOlr · 09-17-2005, 05:02 AM

just dinged lvl52, nearly full fabled all spells adp3. im doing fine but then again im only playing in guild groups and we always have 2 healers in the group simply coz we have so many SMILEY

spike dmg is a HUGE problem (even on fabled tanks) the difference between having a cleric or a shammy and warden and having 2 wardens is insane and it should be with regens stacking now. the recast timers are extremely frustrating... watching the tanks health going down while u wait till can cast heals again sucks (and no i dont think casting group heals is an option here really) i think are current problems are related to the fact that were missing one of our key spells the tree which will add another good regen. in conclusion: grind for the tree and write agree freebacks to soe to have the splitpaw heal on a different time (or to have all splitpaw spells for all classes on a different timer). if that happens^we should do alot better.

prpgndhi · 09-17-2005, 05:28 AM

I am really unhappy. I am level 38, and I generally duo with a guardian. I can't keep him alive. My best heal at this level was halfed and the regen nature of all the heals cannot make up for mobs that hit hard all at once. I completely feel that I am a backup healer. The Guardian and I feel that we have to look for another healer to take on any decent mobs or risk dying because the regens just cant keep up. If I had just one large heal on a quick reuse timer I would be happy. My heals end up working most after the fight is over. When SOE decides to "balance" classes, they should not bring spells down, but just fix those who are not up to par with the rest. All in all... I feel worthless =(

Xa · 09-17-2005, 05:34 AM

Prior to the patch I was comfortable solo healing any guild group I ever had (good tanks, enchanter ect.)

Post patch I have not been able to deal with spike damage at all. I'm working on getting the tree and hope that it helps in a meaningfull way.

Luckily I have been able to work with a defiler on a nightly basis and he can do the job. (Looks like a single heal in the 950 range on top of his wards.)

I'm now the little kid brother and I'm not pleased with it at all... and it's all from spike damage. (By this I mean that when solo healing, the tank can fight for X number of seconds and I'm keeping up fine. Add something unusual and he drops into the red. The group watches me heal with everything I have for a while untill the tank dies, the swashie or chanter mez the mob, I rez and heal the tank and we proced to finish the fight.)

All of this is hedged with the knowledge that our groups have been able to deal with some encounters that I believe are beyond what the devs wanted us to be able to do with a single group. If we were going for lower level targets and not concerned with anything like having fun, leveling or exploring DoF, I'm under the impression that I could solo heal the group.

Sheylara · 09-17-2005, 06:21 AM

50 Warden with Legendary+Treasured.

I am generally unhappy with the direction our healing has gone. Like many who posted before me, I now feel more like a backup healer.

Was in a full 50s group xp-ing at Pillars of Flame. Healers were me and a Fury. We were doing ok for the most part, but I'd rate our experience as risky. The tank died a couple times because both of us couldn't handle spike damage. The mobs would once in a while take him from full health to orange and you'd see us both spamming everything we have, and the health would go up to yellow, then dip to orange, yellow, orange, red, orange, red, red, BAM.

Well, that was my first time grouping after the patch, so maybe I need time to get used to it and figure out a new strategy. But initial impressions tell me that, although our heals are supposed to be most HPS efficient (based on beta figures), it ends up not to be, half the time. Having to cycle HoTs nonstop to get out of a tough situation is certainly not efficient since you waste remaining ticks with a new cast, but I don't know yet what else I can do.

Sure, I could join groups that take easier mobs. But, which lvl 50 group wants to camp blue/white con mobs all day? I used to be the one person in the group who is always waiting for everyone else to recover their power. Now I'm the one everyone waits for. I used to do great as solo healer in tough encounters for hours and hours and I loved being solo healer. Now, even with a Fury helping out, I feel not up to the job anymore. I found myself wishing we had a templar or mystic.

I got Sylvan Waters at Master 2. But I'd rather have Pact of the Pride back any time. Or even another group cure.

On the other side of things, I feel my soloing ability has increased. But that could be due to the con changes, I don't know. I managed to solo a lvl 53^^ cobra and ended with full health and 10% power. I have a feeling I wouldn't have been able to do that pre-patch, but it's hard to say.

In general, though, I would much rather have our pre-patch us back.

Right now, I prefer soloing because I feel bad foisting myself on groups. But I don't play MMORPGs to solo. :smileyindifferent:

Riseth · 09-17-2005, 06:48 AM

50 Warden, Main heals Master, group heals and buffs Adept III and legendary gear All I can say is thank god I have been in a team with another healer who can cast 800+ instant heal. Chain casting my 3 main heals only to see a MT health move from red to orange is a worry. I've yet to be a solo healer in a group and frankly I'm dreading it as I wouldn't want to let the team down. I've always considered burst healing an essential part of any healer and although I like some of the changes with LU13, I do feel we have been hit far too hard in this particular area.

Rykairn · 09-17-2005, 07:20 AM

Level 36 warden with all adept 1 spells (one master) and mostly player crafted items. I like to think I'm a good example of the average casual gamer. I have to agree, I'm not happy with the changes to our healing either. I have the capacity to keep up with average solo stuff, but feel I fall behind when I'm in a group setting. I also feel we've been reduced to a secondary healer role.

lastcapitalist · 09-17-2005, 08:27 AM

49 warden here....we got shafted. if your a high level warden and dont think this, you should take a look. our direct heals are pathetic now, we cannot cope with hard hitters / adds as well. its total bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] that a mystic with a 1800pt dmg ward spell is healing 1200 directly , while im healing 400 - 450 directly. I am dissapointed so much that i have stopped playing for the time being.

HVA · 09-17-2005, 10:15 AM

Lvl 50 warden - reasonable equipt (no fabled) + some adpt3

The short version:

day 1: Frustrating - hating it

day 2: Very frustrating - was ready quit

day 3: maybe this will work anyway

day 4: ????

My point is, i need more time to adjust. I want to be able heal full grp alone, and if i cant do that, i will stop. My first impression was i couldnt do it, if things gets a little tough. Maybe we were taking to hards mobs. Last night i was doing ok, but mobs was also easier. I not sure how this ends, because i need more time, to try diffrent situations. I must agree with problems of too low direct heals, and I really want that spiltpaw spell back on another timer again. And I miss my ghostlion. Hopefully the next days will get better.

BTW - did the HOTs part get improved last night (Sylwan waters + verdant rapture) ??

Tuved2 · 09-17-2005, 10:20 AM

And Ravenmist thought I was nuts...... Pretty much the situation is what I said it would be weeks ago when I said we had no burst healing capacity and this would be our undoing.

Unmask · 09-17-2005, 11:29 AM

I have to agree that the heals are spotty but you get used to them and adapt. My gear is mostly fabled and spells are mostly master so keep that in mind for my comments - that said I don't think the difference between legendary gear/spells is so significant to prevent soloing yellow solo mobs and single blue ^^ mobs. Our 2 roots is very handy and may be very handy to have in adept3/master (in fact I would not be shocked if it gets nerfed the way our damage shield was). I think we are a very good solo class, better than before (I haven't tried soloing a ^^^ heroic but white ^^ including nameds are usually not a problem and mayube I will try yellows once I have things down pat). In groups I can solo heal if I need to on most ^^^ groups but we can't play the way we have anymore. It used to be you basically didn't throw a heal until the tank was around 50% but we don't have that margin for error (as was so aptly put before). I keep a regen up at all times, keep the mob rooted so even in the oft chance you get agro it cant reach you, and spam your heals at the first sign of trouble (not that we have much to spam). We managed to easily knock off an 55 (?) X2 snake in The Living Tombs with a single group. If anything I think Verdant Rapture needs a faster cast time and quicker recast and our regens need to be buffed. We'll never have the burst healing capabilities of the shaman/cleric classes unfortunately despite the fact that's the only point of healing. If the MT is aking stady dmage all you need is a healer who is just barely awake. The buff situation is much better though it'd be nice to give more than 1 person a particular buff. I miss verdant sigh as a heal. SMILEY

HG is more useful with the extra range and I forgot about bounty of the virtuous the last couple of days - go figure. Duststorm seems bugged also - the knockback/stun only works if the mob is attacking the caster. That's not what the spell description says. It works great in harclave btw. SMILEY

I don't usually cast it unless we have a lot of groups on us. With a well equipped group you can go through yellow and orange ^^^ mobs pretty quickly so casting duststorm for each one is more of a hinderance than a help. Wisp and Subterfuge were fixed so they operate on the same timer. SMILEY

Oddly enough, if I am running through double down arrow mobs I run into problems because every mob can stun/stifle me so running gets me killed almost every time. Overall I'd say I'm less apprehensive than I was before but I think our ability to keep groups up in particular zones (like Icy Digs) is hampered. For regular xp grinding and raiding I don't think we will have a problem. But they really didn't change the way we operate in raids once. While before the patch maybe we kept spamming 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 4 over and over again, now maybe it is 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 2 1 3 1 4 ... No real difference. Jury is still out - there are good parts and bad parts - unfortunately healing is a bit on the bad side at the moment. I guarantee they will be repatching things for a while so we can only hope we get a little attention in that department.

Rebasy · 09-17-2005, 04:49 PM

Level 50 Warden - two fabled items. most heals adept 3. Im very unhappy about the changes. So long as nothing untoward happens, I can manage, but soon as the tank gets an add or a hard mob, the instant portion of my heals just dont cut it. It doesnt matter how many hot's I stack, they don't give the urgent burst heal to get him out of the red. I feel like a second rate healer now compared to some of the priest classes. Please give me back at least one heal that has a larger instant portion to it.

Urkra · 09-17-2005, 06:07 PM

lvl 50 - 2 fabled/rest legendary all adept III Master I (3)

Extremely unhappy, so i was during beta, but back then some other eager Wardens constantly shut me up on here each time i complained.

Took 2 months to ruin a class, you will see how long will SOE take to fix it. If anything like EQ1 probably 4 years.

My accounts are both cancelled but i will keep playing until they will expire - if i can stick it.

Tuved2 · 09-17-2005, 07:47 PM

Yeah Urkraft you're the one beta Warden who didn't think my complaints were nuts. I wasn't in beta but knew your experiences were what was going to happen live. I actually broke down, renewed my account and bought DoF on release day hoping other beta Wardens who were overly optimistic were right. I'm out 45 bucks now and loosing the will to even log in......What frustrates me most is I loved EQ2.

Funsquad · 09-17-2005, 08:11 PM

Lv 48 Warden, mostly casual - couple of Adepts III, pristine imbued armour, few raid drops..

Unhappy. If they were balancing classes up and others down I'm thinking wardens were given the big hairy one.

- Spike damage: Well discussed - we dont handle it well enough

- Raid Stacking: Observed our HOTs dont stack - so more than one Warden surplus to healing requirements ?

- Solo capacity: The run to favoured old world hunting spots is now risky and when you get there...

- Zone Readjusting: CT for Example is now a joke, guess I'll never get to see that [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Cenobite unless I bring my own raid..Trash there is 40-42^^^ (read kill a 48 warden no contest). Im wondering if places like Lava/ CT have been made harder to, how do I say this kindly, divert traffice to the new world.

- Loss of Samela's: How do you spell it..anyway loved that extra 10% speed

- Group Cures: Key raid function removed...

- Posion: Is it just me or....have we lost cure posion too

Positives... Umm snare, but Furys have it at 40% too, told Wizards at 56%, so its not class defining. Root would be ok, if it actually worked and held for a reasonable duration

Somniloquy · 09-17-2005, 08:38 PM

happy enough, warden not my main and only level 24 but as pointed out above, its a case of adjusting the order i cast the heals in and taking advantage of the HoT stack to keep on top. Hard work, sure but having the sweet mana efficiency means that i can keep on going when most other clases are spent.

In fact, the general changes to the game have made me even more intent on progressing my Warden. My mains SK forum, like all the tank forums is full of whinges about cant solo this and cant hold aggro on that but same applies, taunts are pretty much instant and its a bit like Eq1 with spamming taunts.

Funnily enough as far as Warden goes, I spen a lot of time playing EQOA a coule of year back and in that game everything is an HOT apart from pally heals and one cleric line. That was all about being on top of the healing and the aggro situation right from the off and this is pretty similar.

As far as gear goes, at lvl 24 I have all the sun touched stuff but better boots and a selection of mostly handcrafted accessories courtesy of guildies, I make them boxes and arrows and they make me jewleery and scrolls and foood and whatnot SMILEY I get plenty of "how come you got more health and mana than me and im 2 lvls higher than you" form other caster classes... I just say "Inspect" not awesom gear but pretty much the best avail for my level and thats the only way to go in EQ2 as you all well know.

Jaggedpine Mistwalker · 09-17-2005, 11:03 PM

I was always a really prideful Warden (47, no master/ad3 but all ad1, all legendary with 1 fabled)... now I am embarrassed to play anymore.

I'm going to reroll a Templar. I HATE myself for it.

-Adlak

Message Edited by Jaggedpine Mistwalker on 09-17-2005 02:06 PM

Havoca · 09-18-2005, 01:17 AM

47 warden here, mostly adept 1's and legendary gear. Unhappy, for the same reasons as stated above in regards to healing power. I *really* miss Salmekia's Pact too, that spell was awesome.

Also, the lack of parry is frustrating. I died on a run to pf at level 47 yesterday... I used to be able to run it at level 42 and barely take damage.

Message Edited by Havoca on 09-17-2005 05:19 PM

Arielle Nightshade · 09-18-2005, 01:39 AM

Jaggedpine Mistwalker wrote:

I was always a really prideful Warden (47, no master/ad3 but all ad1, all legendary with 1 fabled)... now I am embarrassed to play anymore.

I'm going to reroll a Templar. I HATE myself for it.

-Adlak

Message Edited by Jaggedpine Mistwalker on 09-17-2005 02:06 PM

I know what you mean.

I DID roll a templar a couple of months ago - as an experiment, and to sort of shut a friend up who maintained that Wardens were (pre patch) not as mana efficient as healers. I disagreed when I rolled the Templar, and continued to disagree after playing for awhile. I don't like Templar anywhere near as much as I like Warden - lore, roleplaying, spell effects, etc...pre patch, Wardens had a whole lot more fun doing all the stuff we can do...Templars really could only do one thing - heal...and I think we both healed as well as the other class..just differently.

Now that I am playing both classes (both are tier 5), I just want to tell you that...it doesn't matter. Templars are having as difficult a time of it as we are - with the exception that they have one great big heal - which is nice...ONCE. It's on an incredibly long timer, along with all the other direct heals they get. The tradeoff for this 'awesome heal' (and it is very nice...ONCE) is that: they can't damage, debuff is small..and buffs are not nearly as nice as they ought to be for that class. If you make one mistake and choose the wrong, smaller heal - it's a Tank death. If you choose the big heal over and over...might as well just bang your forehead on the keyboard repeatedly. What fun is that?

IMO, Templars should be able to heal well...cause that's really their main focus. Wardens SHOULD be able to solo heal..but in a different way than the Templars..cause we can do so many other cool things.

In a group with a Templar, we are not backup healers...we are co-healers. Other Templars I have spoken with struggle to solo heal, as well...but they can do it. Our heals are miniscule ..and no matter what we are told..they do not stack..but they do fill the gap ..in between the long 'big' heal that Templars get. We are both contributing. The problem with this is: you have to have 2 healers (or more) to do anything worthwhile. I want to duo or have a small group.

A Templar has a hard time with the spikes too - but for Wardens, they are impossible. On my server...2 healers are not necessarily available. I didn't like pickup groups before...I DEFINITELY do not do them now.

For those who say...'well..the con system has changed, you just have to get used to it and try things not as hard'....fine. Except the XP system is such that...if you try things that you can get (sweating just a little bit, instead of going to pick up shards), your xp is next to nothing.

Not sure what the "Bonus" was for players under lvl 50, but I didnt notice it on any alts.

So..bottom line: If healing (on 2 toons) is impossible...and XP sucks for things you can get...what's the point? I wouldn't reroll a Templar...I wouldn't bother. Unless they fix things to enable us to at least have a similar role to the one we had previously - a healer that can stand on their own...and do a good job if you know how to play..this is not my idea of a good time. Why would I use part of my 'entertainment' budget to spend evening after evening of frustration?

Riverstone · 09-18-2005, 03:00 AM

Level 51 with decent gear and spell upgrades...I've played extensively the past few days testing my functionality in small groups, full groups, duo and solo. I'm so underwhelmed by these craptastic changes that I've cancelled my accounts. I'm just running the clock out now until my subscription is finished.

Sophie47 · 09-18-2005, 03:35 AM

Solo great, group is a joke. I am waiting for the "Oh we were looking for a REAL healer" to start coming from groups anytime now. I can not keep up with the damage the MT is taking. It takes everything I have as fast as I can throw it, and most of the hot tics are wasted due to recasts. If we do not get a spell or two to offset the spike damage we done for as a healer class. i am the guild Tailor so I will not be quitting but I will retire as a Warden and change my last name to "ThegimpedWarden".

Arielle Nightshade · 09-18-2005, 05:03 AM

Sophie47 wrote:
Solo great, group is a joke. I am waiting for the "Oh we were looking for a REAL healer" to start coming from groups anytime now. I can not keep up with the damage the MT is taking. It takes everything I have as fast as I can throw it, and most of the hot tics are wasted due to recasts. If we do not get a spell or two to offset the spike damage we done for as a healer class. i am the guild Tailor so I will not be quitting but I will retire as a Warden and change my last name to "ThegimpedWarden".

Think that name is taken on All Servers LOL

Sorano · 09-18-2005, 05:19 AM

Definitely not happy. Yesterday we took on the last mob for the carpet quest. Our tank was in the orange as soon as he pulled and piddly warden DH's barely shifted his HP bar. I actually had him say in Teamspeak, that the Templar was healing him for 600, while the Warden was healing for 50 and pretty much everyone could draw the same conclusion. Wardens are now so gimped at healing that we are a liability in a 6 person group.

The way it stands, the only chance we have with dealing with mob spike damage is to hit Chloroplast then HG one after the other. Sure you are going to be stunned for 36 seconds, but it's the only way we can put out a significant amount of healing in a short space of time. Too bad if a mob hits an AE while you are stunned though. I guess we're going to have to just suck it up and let the real healers like Templars and Mystics do the job while we just stand around looking pretty.

Rhianw · 09-18-2005, 06:11 AM

Level 50 - very very unhappy.

They took half our heals, lengthened timers on heals and dps. My hubby plays a paladin - his heals are better than mine which leads me to the question.... what is the point?? When a pally heals better than a healer....

Wardens were supposed to end up as the best healing class, but if I'm the best I would hate to see the worst!!

I will give it a couple of weeks to see if we get un-nerfed, but if not, well, maybe I will have to find something more useful to do with my time. With the combat changes SoE might have inadvertently given me my life back LOL

Aladiah · 09-18-2005, 07:00 AM

I suggest that wardens of all servers make a /feedback in game this week to tell our disappointment about the revamp of our heal.

Shadus · 09-18-2005, 07:36 PM

Shafted hard.

Obsydian · 09-19-2005, 11:44 AM

Um can I ask where SOE put the KY cuz I didnt get any.

Amythyst Shatyrr

50 (retired) Warden

Trinitas on MIstmoore server

Message Edited by Obsydian on 09-19-2005 12:44 AM

ZandaStrooth · 09-19-2005, 04:00 PM

I'm level 50 warden and happy with the changes.

The overall class balance is so much better now. I really think SOE did a great job for once SMILEY

We lost some healing power, but yesterday I was still able to heal a group of 6 as solo healer, while we were killing a group of 3 epic 54's 3 arrows mobs.

Ceyan · 09-19-2005, 04:59 PM

I am very upset at the changes. At level 31, my healing spells are almost useless. No big burst heals at all (save maybe one that respawns every 10 minutes). It also appears that monsters have doubled HP as well as attacking powers. All in all, the game is frustrating beyond belief and has exited the realm of fun into the realm of vexation.

09-17-2005, 03:24 AM	#31
Sorano Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 505	Aye our direct heals definitely need to be adjusted. We just don't have the ability to deal with spike damage. The problem is once a tank has dropped to the orange, you have to spam heal to get them back up and our DH's just don't keep up. We simply have no margin for error with our healing. Miss a heal, because you turned your head to take a drink for a second and it's very likely your tank will die. Our healing output at the moment is very close to mob damage, so we do not have the luxury of making any mistakes. It's quite stressful knowing that one lapse in concentration will likely spell doom for your group. That is seriously going to impact on how others start viewing wardens as a healing class, because as it stands now, you have to be a very good player with good gear and spell upgrades in order to keep your group alive as a sole healer. When groups start wiping with players who have average gear/spells, wardens are going to start getting the [Removed for Content] healer tag. SOE need to adjust the inital heal values on our direct heals. A 300 hp and 400 hp DH is just not cutting it at the moment. And I simply detest how there is now range value on our heals, like whoever you are healing is mitigating your heals. I have absolutely no idea why that system was implemented, and it just makes things that much worse for wardens because we are the class with the most amount of heal ticks, so are subjected to the most randomness in our heal values. __________________

09-17-2005, 05:02 AM	#33
LordOlr Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 194	just dinged lvl52, nearly full fabled all spells adp3. im doing fine but then again im only playing in guild groups and we always have 2 healers in the group simply coz we have so many spike dmg is a HUGE problem (even on fabled tanks) the difference between having a cleric or a shammy and warden and having 2 wardens is insane and it should be with regens stacking now. the recast timers are extremely frustrating... watching the tanks health going down while u wait till can cast heals again sucks (and no i dont think casting group heals is an option here really) i think are current problems are related to the fact that were missing one of our key spells the tree which will add another good regen. in conclusion: grind for the tree and write agree freebacks to soe to have the splitpaw heal on a different time (or to have all splitpaw spells for all classes on a different timer). if that happens^we should do alot better. __________________ Logaras 60 Warden on Runnyeye Proud to be Xanadu

09-17-2005, 05:34 AM	#35
Xa General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	Prior to the patch I was comfortable solo healing any guild group I ever had (good tanks, enchanter ect.) Post patch I have not been able to deal with spike damage at all. I'm working on getting the tree and hope that it helps in a meaningfull way. Luckily I have been able to work with a defiler on a nightly basis and he can do the job. (Looks like a single heal in the 950 range on top of his wards.) I'm now the little kid brother and I'm not pleased with it at all... and it's all from spike damage. (By this I mean that when solo healing, the tank can fight for X number of seconds and I'm keeping up fine. Add something unusual and he drops into the red. The group watches me heal with everything I have for a while untill the tank dies, the swashie or chanter mez the mob, I rez and heal the tank and we proced to finish the fight.) All of this is hedged with the knowledge that our groups have been able to deal with some encounters that I believe are beyond what the devs wanted us to be able to do with a single group. If we were going for lower level targets and not concerned with anything like having fun, leveling or exploring DoF, I'm under the impression that I could solo heal the group. __________________ Xabbo - Warden Grobb The Brotherhood

09-17-2005, 06:48 AM	#37
Riseth Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	50 Warden, Main heals Master, group heals and buffs Adept III and legendary gear All I can say is thank god I have been in a team with another healer who can cast 800+ instant heal. Chain casting my 3 main heals only to see a MT health move from red to orange is a worry. I've yet to be a solo healer in a group and frankly I'm dreading it as I wouldn't want to let the team down. I've always considered burst healing an essential part of any healer and although I like some of the changes with LU13, I do feel we have been hit far too hard in this particular area. __________________ Baphorise, 70 Warden, Splitpaw United Kingdoms

09-17-2005, 10:15 AM	#40
HVA Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 31	Lvl 50 warden - reasonable equipt (no fabled) + some adpt3 The short version: day 1: Frustrating - hating it day 2: Very frustrating - was ready quit day 3: maybe this will work anyway day 4: ???? My point is, i need more time to adjust. I want to be able heal full grp alone, and if i cant do that, i will stop. My first impression was i couldnt do it, if things gets a little tough. Maybe we were taking to hards mobs. Last night i was doing ok, but mobs was also easier. I not sure how this ends, because i need more time, to try diffrent situations. I must agree with problems of too low direct heals, and I really want that spiltpaw spell back on another timer again. And I miss my ghostlion. Hopefully the next days will get better. BTW - did the HOTs part get improved last night (Sylwan waters + verdant rapture) ?? __________________ Louiise/Mountt - Splitpaw

09-17-2005, 04:42 AM	#32
Icewolf99 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 96	Level 45 warden and I think we got shafted too. I miss my Selmekia's pride, i really liked the ghost lion and the speed boost. I can't solo any where close to what i did before, run out of power a lot sooner. And heals,, well just dont go there, what a joke.

09-17-2005, 05:28 AM	#34
prpgndhi Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2	I am really unhappy. I am level 38, and I generally duo with a guardian. I can't keep him alive. My best heal at this level was halfed and the regen nature of all the heals cannot make up for mobs that hit hard all at once. I completely feel that I am a backup healer. The Guardian and I feel that we have to look for another healer to take on any decent mobs or risk dying because the regens just cant keep up. If I had just one large heal on a quick reuse timer I would be happy. My heals end up working most after the fight is over. When SOE decides to "balance" classes, they should not bring spells down, but just fix those who are not up to par with the rest. All in all... I feel worthless =(

09-17-2005, 06:21 AM	#36
Sheylara Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 62	50 Warden with Legendary+Treasured. I am generally unhappy with the direction our healing has gone. Like many who posted before me, I now feel more like a backup healer. Was in a full 50s group xp-ing at Pillars of Flame. Healers were me and a Fury. We were doing ok for the most part, but I'd rate our experience as risky. The tank died a couple times because both of us couldn't handle spike damage. The mobs would once in a while take him from full health to orange and you'd see us both spamming everything we have, and the health would go up to yellow, then dip to orange, yellow, orange, red, orange, red, red, BAM. Well, that was my first time grouping after the patch, so maybe I need time to get used to it and figure out a new strategy. But initial impressions tell me that, although our heals are supposed to be most HPS efficient (based on beta figures), it ends up not to be, half the time. Having to cycle HoTs nonstop to get out of a tough situation is certainly not efficient since you waste remaining ticks with a new cast, but I don't know yet what else I can do. Sure, I could join groups that take easier mobs. But, which lvl 50 group wants to camp blue/white con mobs all day? I used to be the one person in the group who is always waiting for everyone else to recover their power. Now I'm the one everyone waits for. I used to do great as solo healer in tough encounters for hours and hours and I loved being solo healer. Now, even with a Fury helping out, I feel not up to the job anymore. I found myself wishing we had a templar or mystic. I got Sylvan Waters at Master 2. But I'd rather have Pact of the Pride back any time. Or even another group cure. On the other side of things, I feel my soloing ability has increased. But that could be due to the con changes, I don't know. I managed to solo a lvl 53^^ cobra and ended with full health and 10% power. I have a feeling I wouldn't have been able to do that pre-patch, but it's hard to say. In general, though, I would much rather have our pre-patch us back. Right now, I prefer soloing because I feel bad foisting myself on groups. But I don't play MMORPGs to solo. :smileyindifferent:

09-17-2005, 07:20 AM	#38
Rykairn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 41	Level 36 warden with all adept 1 spells (one master) and mostly player crafted items. I like to think I'm a good example of the average casual gamer. I have to agree, I'm not happy with the changes to our healing either. I have the capacity to keep up with average solo stuff, but feel I fall behind when I'm in a group setting. I also feel we've been reduced to a secondary healer role.

09-17-2005, 08:27 AM	#39
lastcapitalist Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 14	49 warden here....we got shafted. if your a high level warden and dont think this, you should take a look. our direct heals are pathetic now, we cannot cope with hard hitters / adds as well. its total bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] that a mystic with a 1800pt dmg ward spell is healing 1200 directly , while im healing 400 - 450 directly. I am dissapointed so much that i have stopped playing for the time being.

09-17-2005, 10:20 AM	#41
Tuved2 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 190	And Ravenmist thought I was nuts...... Pretty much the situation is what I said it would be weeks ago when I said we had no burst healing capacity and this would be our undoing.

09-17-2005, 11:29 AM	#42
Unmask Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,132	I have to agree that the heals are spotty but you get used to them and adapt. My gear is mostly fabled and spells are mostly master so keep that in mind for my comments - that said I don't think the difference between legendary gear/spells is so significant to prevent soloing yellow solo mobs and single blue ^^ mobs. Our 2 roots is very handy and may be very handy to have in adept3/master (in fact I would not be shocked if it gets nerfed the way our damage shield was). I think we are a very good solo class, better than before (I haven't tried soloing a ^^^ heroic but white ^^ including nameds are usually not a problem and mayube I will try yellows once I have things down pat). In groups I can solo heal if I need to on most ^^^ groups but we can't play the way we have anymore. It used to be you basically didn't throw a heal until the tank was around 50% but we don't have that margin for error (as was so aptly put before). I keep a regen up at all times, keep the mob rooted so even in the oft chance you get agro it cant reach you, and spam your heals at the first sign of trouble (not that we have much to spam). We managed to easily knock off an 55 (?) X2 snake in The Living Tombs with a single group. If anything I think Verdant Rapture needs a faster cast time and quicker recast and our regens need to be buffed. We'll never have the burst healing capabilities of the shaman/cleric classes unfortunately despite the fact that's the only point of healing. If the MT is aking stady dmage all you need is a healer who is just barely awake. The buff situation is much better though it'd be nice to give more than 1 person a particular buff. I miss verdant sigh as a heal. HG is more useful with the extra range and I forgot about bounty of the virtuous the last couple of days - go figure. Duststorm seems bugged also - the knockback/stun only works if the mob is attacking the caster. That's not what the spell description says. It works great in harclave btw. I don't usually cast it unless we have a lot of groups on us. With a well equipped group you can go through yellow and orange ^^^ mobs pretty quickly so casting duststorm for each one is more of a hinderance than a help. Wisp and Subterfuge were fixed so they operate on the same timer. Oddly enough, if I am running through double down arrow mobs I run into problems because every mob can stun/stifle me so running gets me killed almost every time. Overall I'd say I'm less apprehensive than I was before but I think our ability to keep groups up in particular zones (like Icy Digs) is hampered. For regular xp grinding and raiding I don't think we will have a problem. But they really didn't change the way we operate in raids once. While before the patch maybe we kept spamming 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 4 over and over again, now maybe it is 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 2 1 3 1 4 ... No real difference. Jury is still out - there are good parts and bad parts - unfortunately healing is a bit on the bad side at the moment. I guarantee they will be repatching things for a while so we can only hope we get a little attention in that department. __________________ Clint Eastwoods Oasis dogs > cats /wagtail

09-17-2005, 04:49 PM	#43
Rebasy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2	Level 50 Warden - two fabled items. most heals adept 3. Im very unhappy about the changes. So long as nothing untoward happens, I can manage, but soon as the tank gets an add or a hard mob, the instant portion of my heals just dont cut it. It doesnt matter how many hot's I stack, they don't give the urgent burst heal to get him out of the red. I feel like a second rate healer now compared to some of the priest classes. Please give me back at least one heal that has a larger instant portion to it.

09-17-2005, 06:07 PM	#44
Urkra General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	lvl 50 - 2 fabled/rest legendary all adept III Master I (3) Extremely unhappy, so i was during beta, but back then some other eager Wardens constantly shut me up on here each time i complained. Took 2 months to ruin a class, you will see how long will SOE take to fix it. If anything like EQ1 probably 4 years. My accounts are both cancelled but i will keep playing until they will expire - if i can stick it. __________________ Urkraft of the Shard - Guk 60 Warden Divine Legend

09-17-2005, 07:47 PM	#45
Tuved2 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 190	Yeah Urkraft you're the one beta Warden who didn't think my complaints were nuts. I wasn't in beta but knew your experiences were what was going to happen live. I actually broke down, renewed my account and bought DoF on release day hoping other beta Wardens who were overly optimistic were right. I'm out 45 bucks now and loosing the will to even log in......What frustrates me most is I loved EQ2.

09-17-2005, 08:11 PM	#46
Funsquad Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 65	Lv 48 Warden, mostly casual - couple of Adepts III, pristine imbued armour, few raid drops.. Unhappy. If they were balancing classes up and others down I'm thinking wardens were given the big hairy one. - Spike damage: Well discussed - we dont handle it well enough - Raid Stacking: Observed our HOTs dont stack - so more than one Warden surplus to healing requirements ? - Solo capacity: The run to favoured old world hunting spots is now risky and when you get there... - Zone Readjusting: CT for Example is now a joke, guess I'll never get to see that [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Cenobite unless I bring my own raid..Trash there is 40-42^^^ (read kill a 48 warden no contest). Im wondering if places like Lava/ CT have been made harder to, how do I say this kindly, divert traffice to the new world. - Loss of Samela's: How do you spell it..anyway loved that extra 10% speed - Group Cures: Key raid function removed... - Posion: Is it just me or....have we lost cure posion too Positives... Umm snare, but Furys have it at 40% too, told Wizards at 56%, so its not class defining. Root would be ok, if it actually worked and held for a reasonable duration

09-17-2005, 08:38 PM	#47
Somniloquy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 72	happy enough, warden not my main and only level 24 but as pointed out above, its a case of adjusting the order i cast the heals in and taking advantage of the HoT stack to keep on top. Hard work, sure but having the sweet mana efficiency means that i can keep on going when most other clases are spent. In fact, the general changes to the game have made me even more intent on progressing my Warden. My mains SK forum, like all the tank forums is full of whinges about cant solo this and cant hold aggro on that but same applies, taunts are pretty much instant and its a bit like Eq1 with spamming taunts. Funnily enough as far as Warden goes, I spen a lot of time playing EQOA a coule of year back and in that game everything is an HOT apart from pally heals and one cleric line. That was all about being on top of the healing and the aggro situation right from the off and this is pretty similar. As far as gear goes, at lvl 24 I have all the sun touched stuff but better boots and a selection of mostly handcrafted accessories courtesy of guildies, I make them boxes and arrows and they make me jewleery and scrolls and foood and whatnot I get plenty of "how come you got more health and mana than me and im 2 lvls higher than you" form other caster classes... I just say "Inspect" not awesom gear but pretty much the best avail for my level and thats the only way to go in EQ2 as you all well know.

09-17-2005, 11:03 PM	#48
Jaggedpine Mistwalker Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Norrath Posts: 2	I was always a really prideful Warden (47, no master/ad3 but all ad1, all legendary with 1 fabled)... now I am embarrassed to play anymore. I'm going to reroll a Templar. I HATE myself for it. -Adlak Message Edited by Jaggedpine Mistwalker on 09-17-2005 02:06 PM

09-18-2005, 01:17 AM	#49
Havoca Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5	47 warden here, mostly adept 1's and legendary gear. Unhappy, for the same reasons as stated above in regards to healing power. I really miss Salmekia's Pact too, that spell was awesome. Also, the lack of parry is frustrating. I died on a run to pf at level 47 yesterday... I used to be able to run it at level 42 and barely take damage. Message Edited by Havoca on 09-17-2005 05:19 PM

09-18-2005, 01:39 AM	#50
Arielle Nightshade Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,727	Jaggedpine Mistwalker wrote: I was always a really prideful Warden (47, no master/ad3 but all ad1, all legendary with 1 fabled)... now I am embarrassed to play anymore. I'm going to reroll a Templar. I HATE myself for it. -Adlak Message Edited by Jaggedpine Mistwalker on 09-17-2005 02:06 PM I know what you mean. I DID roll a templar a couple of months ago - as an experiment, and to sort of shut a friend up who maintained that Wardens were (pre patch) not as mana efficient as healers. I disagreed when I rolled the Templar, and continued to disagree after playing for awhile. I don't like Templar anywhere near as much as I like Warden - lore, roleplaying, spell effects, etc...pre patch, Wardens had a whole lot more fun doing all the stuff we can do...Templars really could only do one thing - heal...and I think we both healed as well as the other class..just differently. Now that I am playing both classes (both are tier 5), I just want to tell you that...it doesn't matter. Templars are having as difficult a time of it as we are - with the exception that they have one great big heal - which is nice...ONCE. It's on an incredibly long timer, along with all the other direct heals they get. The tradeoff for this 'awesome heal' (and it is very nice...ONCE) is that: they can't damage, debuff is small..and buffs are not nearly as nice as they ought to be for that class. If you make one mistake and choose the wrong, smaller heal - it's a Tank death. If you choose the big heal over and over...might as well just bang your forehead on the keyboard repeatedly. What fun is that? IMO, Templars should be able to heal well...cause that's really their main focus. Wardens SHOULD be able to solo heal..but in a different way than the Templars..cause we can do so many other cool things. In a group with a Templar, we are not backup healers...we are co-healers. Other Templars I have spoken with struggle to solo heal, as well...but they can do it. Our heals are miniscule ..and no matter what we are told..they do not stack..but they do fill the gap ..in between the long 'big' heal that Templars get. We are both contributing. The problem with this is: you have to have 2 healers (or more) to do anything worthwhile. I want to duo or have a small group. A Templar has a hard time with the spikes too - but for Wardens, they are impossible. On my server...2 healers are not necessarily available. I didn't like pickup groups before...I DEFINITELY do not do them now. For those who say...'well..the con system has changed, you just have to get used to it and try things not as hard'....fine. Except the XP system is such that...if you try things that you can get (sweating just a little bit, instead of going to pick up shards), your xp is next to nothing. Not sure what the "Bonus" was for players under lvl 50, but I didnt notice it on any alts. So..bottom line: If healing (on 2 toons) is impossible...and XP sucks for things you can get...what's the point? I wouldn't reroll a Templar...I wouldn't bother. Unless they fix things to enable us to at least have a similar role to the one we had previously - a healer that can stand on their own...and do a good job if you know how to play..this is not my idea of a good time. Why would I use part of my 'entertainment' budget to spend evening after evening of frustration?

09-18-2005, 03:00 AM	#51
Riverstone Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 23	Level 51 with decent gear and spell upgrades...I've played extensively the past few days testing my functionality in small groups, full groups, duo and solo. I'm so underwhelmed by these craptastic changes that I've cancelled my accounts. I'm just running the clock out now until my subscription is finished.

09-18-2005, 03:35 AM	#52
Sophie47 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 82	Solo great, group is a joke. I am waiting for the "Oh we were looking for a REAL healer" to start coming from groups anytime now. I can not keep up with the damage the MT is taking. It takes everything I have as fast as I can throw it, and most of the hot tics are wasted due to recasts. If we do not get a spell or two to offset the spike damage we done for as a healer class. i am the guild Tailor so I will not be quitting but I will retire as a Warden and change my last name to "ThegimpedWarden".

09-18-2005, 05:03 AM	#53
Arielle Nightshade Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,727	Sophie47 wrote: Solo great, group is a joke. I am waiting for the "Oh we were looking for a REAL healer" to start coming from groups anytime now. I can not keep up with the damage the MT is taking. It takes everything I have as fast as I can throw it, and most of the hot tics are wasted due to recasts. If we do not get a spell or two to offset the spike damage we done for as a healer class. i am the guild Tailor so I will not be quitting but I will retire as a Warden and change my last name to "ThegimpedWarden". Think that name is taken on All Servers LOL

09-18-2005, 05:19 AM	#54
Sorano Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 505	Definitely not happy. Yesterday we took on the last mob for the carpet quest. Our tank was in the orange as soon as he pulled and piddly warden DH's barely shifted his HP bar. I actually had him say in Teamspeak, that the Templar was healing him for 600, while the Warden was healing for 50 and pretty much everyone could draw the same conclusion. Wardens are now so gimped at healing that we are a liability in a 6 person group. The way it stands, the only chance we have with dealing with mob spike damage is to hit Chloroplast then HG one after the other. Sure you are going to be stunned for 36 seconds, but it's the only way we can put out a significant amount of healing in a short space of time. Too bad if a mob hits an AE while you are stunned though. I guess we're going to have to just suck it up and let the real healers like Templars and Mystics do the job while we just stand around looking pretty. __________________

09-18-2005, 06:11 AM	#55
Rhianw Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	Level 50 - very very unhappy. They took half our heals, lengthened timers on heals and dps. My hubby plays a paladin - his heals are better than mine which leads me to the question.... what is the point?? When a pally heals better than a healer.... Wardens were supposed to end up as the best healing class, but if I'm the best I would hate to see the worst!! I will give it a couple of weeks to see if we get un-nerfed, but if not, well, maybe I will have to find something more useful to do with my time. With the combat changes SoE might have inadvertently given me my life back LOL

09-18-2005, 07:00 AM	#56
Aladiah Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 112	I suggest that wardens of all servers make a /feedback in game this week to tell our disappointment about the revamp of our heal.

09-18-2005, 07:36 PM	#57
Shadus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 142	Shafted hard. __________________ Shadus

09-19-2005, 11:44 AM	#58
Obsydian Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Um can I ask where SOE put the KY cuz I didnt get any. Amythyst Shatyrr 50 (retired) Warden Trinitas on MIstmoore server Message Edited by Obsydian on 09-19-2005 12:44 AM __________________

09-19-2005, 04:00 PM	#59
ZandaStrooth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 42	I'm level 50 warden and happy with the changes. The overall class balance is so much better now. I really think SOE did a great job for once We lost some healing power, but yesterday I was still able to heal a group of 6 as solo healer, while we were killing a group of 3 epic 54's 3 arrows mobs.

09-19-2005, 04:59 PM	#60
Ceyan Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1	I am very upset at the changes. At level 31, my healing spells are almost useless. No big burst heals at all (save maybe one that respawns every 10 minutes). It also appears that monsters have doubled HP as well as attacking powers. All in all, the game is frustrating beyond belief and has exited the realm of fun into the realm of vexation.