Needed Inquisitor Changes - Discuss

[Shailen]

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Jaradcel wrote:Shai, you should be 70 by now, care to run some tests?

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Yeah yeah, I know, RL has been beating me up really bad since KoS landed, its been really bad, i'm only 66.5.  Hopefully another day or two and I'll have a few more levels under me.I'm really slacking as far as being a top end inquis this expansion.

[Jaradcel]

Could be worse Shai, I'm still 58. Real life is stopping me from getting In-Game till April (hoo... boy....) so I'm only allowed to post =That said, HALLELUJAH to test notes.------March 10th TEST SERVER notesInquisitor changes:- Verdict's preparation time has been reduced from 2.5 to 1.5 seconds.------March 9th TEST SERVER notesInquisitor changes:- The damage and power cost has increased for the Invocation spell line.- Writhe's damage has increased.- The reuse timer for Litany of Agony has been reduced.Priest changes:- The base melee auto-attack damage has been increased for all priests.-------

[menelaus109]

Nice, good to see they havent forgotten about us

[seistaan1]

I think how the inquisitor does depends highly on the group make up.

I regularly solo heal for the halls of fate.

And oddly i do this using alot of the spells that are disscussed here as being less than usefull.

Halls of fate is a fun Challenging place but it has its issues.

 Debilitate witch debuffs your tank by 4000 plus to everything is cast contsantly.

The auto attack damage is nuts.

Zerker mobs are a pain.

And some of the named are just flat difficult.

 

Haveing a group that benifits from my particular buffs is good. Scouts i want scouts.

I LOVE swashys they feed me power on a constant basis allowing me to run convert.

With convert on every time i run a cure truama or elemental i get a lovly little pop heal allowing me to spam cure and still keep the tank up with my reactives running. At adept three you get 200 heal. How fast can you cast your cures At the very least its a heal when your other heals are down.

I cast my forced obidience and my str int debuff every fight.

From there its place stuns when i can as ever second counts.

As for verdict.

After turning my graphics up you can see when the hammer "misses" as it will go to the side. If it hits you see a lovly squished hammer on the mobs head.

I use often on very tough fights and on named the trick is over all TIMING.

Ill have to readjust after the change but in general at 12 percent hp for a heroic mob i cast it. prolly 11 percent with the changes. It doesnt work every time however on a really tough fight its a virtual assassinate. Espicially if the mob has a crapload of hp.

As it uses very little power and casts very quickly if your timing is good it works well.

Also communication with your group helps. Most scouts/wizzys wait tell the end of the fight to cast there really big damage.

With verdict if you talk to your group and they start casting the really nasty stuff at 20 percent and you get thelast ten the mob dies MUCH faster.

Stamina debuffs can also muck up the spell as well making sure your fellow debuffers sta debuffs are not just about to run out is a good thing

 

As for our devine and mental debuffs. After much testing debuffing mental appears to help the tanks taunt resist rate by about 30 percent according to my logs This is in single group situation with only me debuffing mental on yellow mobs. If you have several classes debuffing it that rate goes up. This appears to be the case for zerkers, and guardains. However pallys  are helped more with devine. And over all our dps buff with some hasting helps brawlers most.

Message Edited by seistaan1 on 03-15-200612:13 PM

[Krien the Wick]

DPS buff helps Monks a lot more than Bruisers, as Monks are usually at haste cap, and, will lose dps if they use CAs,so they auto-attack much more than anyone else. Bruisers use a lot more CAs, like most other classes, so they get a lot less benefit.

 

The one thing I would like to see is for reactives to follow wards in the sense that if it fades before all the ticks are triggered, the reactive will heal the rest of the amount, or even a smaller amount. Quite often if a group has a brawler, or, any tank and a blue mob, my reactive won't be used fully.

 

I don't have many problems with our class. Many classes have spells that are situational, as do we. Our debuffs seem fairly useless sometimes, but, they can make or break duoing with a yellow heroic. I don't have the numbers with me, but I've parsed in depth the effects of our debuffs. In a controlled guild group, with everyone following the same pattern, Using vitiation (ad3) and forced compliance (ma1), I could lower the mobs dps by 10-15% at times. Adding compelled repetance (ad3) with a CA using mob, you can lower dps by up to 80%. Probably more, but that was the highest number I have seen. Using sentence (ad3) I've seen the groups dps go up 5-10%, although I've not tested that spell that much. Using the str line skull crush, a master smite, and forced compliance, you can lower a mobs melee skills by 60. That is 12 levels. You can gray out a yellow mob meleewise, solo. Not many, if any, classes can say that. Convert has saved my group, and killed my group. This is second hand info, but I was talking to a friend. His raid started wiping when the mob was at about 2%. He started casting verdict, it landed, and just as the time wore off, the mob turned on him. A DS went off, and he killed the mob, last man standing, with only a sliver of health left. Very situational, but no other class in game could have done it.

 

We are a very powerful class. Don't assume everything we have is crappy.

 

Soon as I can I'll post parse numbers for spells alone and together. I'm a parse freak!

[Ssinu]

Krien, I would be interested to see your parses/ideas. I typically parse my own dps just to see what I'm doing and our entire raid, but not much on a group/mob basis. What parser do you use by the way? So far I'm using combat stats but have not taken the time to set up Parsemania or Advanced Combat Tracker.

If one of these is more preferrable to combat stats let me know.

So far on raids I try to used Forced/Debase/Sentence lines because thats all I can reasonably get off before starting max heals.

In groups for instances we get a lot more leeway to be situational, and my experiences mirror Seistaan1's. You are right all classes have situational spells. 

[Ssinu]

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seistaan1 wrote:

As for verdict.

After turning my graphics up you can see when the hammer "misses" as it will go to the side. If it hits you see a lovly squished hammer on the mobs head.

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I usually have my graphics down but I'm gonna try this trick, thanks for the tip.

[rek6779]

Advanced Combat Tracker is by far the best on I've used, and in grouping it is interesting to see the dps reduction. In Vault & Blackscale, for example, an 80% DPS reduction is common on the SK mobs if you use both Heresy and Compelled (stuns for CA's and Lifetaps and Power Drains). Debase and Forced Obedience on a single mob I usually see 10-15%, but on yellow/orange group encounters it's closer to 20%. Raiding is a different story all together, but I think that with ACT you get more information, rather than less.

[Ssinu]

Thanks Alemi! Sounds like its definitely worth setting up/playing around with this. I just got around to settting up/installing the heal parser.

[Krien the Wick]

I use ACT myself, I find it gives more of the information that I use, but it all depends on what you want.

 

It'll be a few days before I can get to my computer to post the parses, and another day or so to put them in a format that you can look at and see the difference instead of me doing it as I go along and knowing what's happening . I think you'll be pleasantly surprized.

[Ssinu]

Loaded up ACT much better than combat stats. Was able to get the information I was looking for, thanks.

[pebyr]

I had a brawler yesterday in a raid, asked to be moved out of my group into a group with a templar, because his dps was suffering.  Basic reason, is that a templar, which is a more defensively minded class has a strength buff, and we dont.  Since they changed things so that strength directly affects dps, why do we not have one?  We have so many spells oriented towards improving the dps, such as haste buffs, debuffs,  and proc'ing buffs.   Still we have no real strength/intelligence buffs to improve damage.To me, templars are more defensively based, and us more offensive.  Then give us the buffs to improve offense.  For things to balance, we need to have a better defined role.  I'm not even talking about the iniquity of templar's getting a wisdom buff, and us not.  If you consider wisdom as a defensive buff, then give us intelligence and strength at least. 

[Ravaan]

I would like to see us more defined, to me we just seem like your basic generic healer. maybe its just me and my low level (only 37) but it just seems very generic and thrown together.

 

 

Borrowing from another game City of Villians. I had a healer there that i absolutely loved, what he could do is debuff opponents while buffing his own people. this would be a great idea for Inquisitors, for example have an Str Drain spell that when used ... drains the enemies str and gives a portion back to the group.

 

or a "syphon speed" which again drains the enemy mobs attack speed and gives it to the inquisitor and his group ... giving them a slight haste or something.

 

Have a whole line of these things

 

drain str

drain spd

drain Int

drain mitigation

 

these would be temporary buffs that last for X amount of seconds

Message Edited by Ravaan on 03-19-200602:13 AM

[menelaus109]

All the brawlers i raid with are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] close to the str cap anyway so i dont see this as an issue, they seem to prefer the sta from piousI would not under any circumstances whatsoever swop our mana regen for the templars wis buff

[Elriol]

wow nice to see lots of inquis's talking about the issues.  i honestly never come to the forums but i'll give my 2 cents on the topics.  most of my perpective comes from a raiding point of view.

 

Heals - overall i really can't complain about our heals too much.  It does makes me a little sad that furies can do massive heals and all that damage though. I just wish our heals where like they used to be when the game first came out.  our quick heal line added haste i believe not sure about our big heals.  i only say this because i found out those mystics have increase hp and other stats on their heals.

 

Spell damage - recent increase in dots are nice but i really didn't see an upgrade in the invocation line.  i know we arn't really supposed to do damage but this would really be a nice upgrade.

 

physical damage - I know a lot of people say to use a big ol weapon toss up yaulp and and haste and hammer away.  sure from a regular xp group i guess that is fine.  from a raiding view this is all sorts of bad news.  stifled so can't heal and mobs are constantly aoeing.  so this is totally out of the question.  sure there are some cases where we can but not an every mob kinda thing : )

 

Heresy -  every day i think this gets more worthless, never see the stun go off and finding mobs that cast "beneficial spells" to cast on are usually dead before the spell is even useful.  maybe if this was encounter based i could deal with it.

 

Convert -  I almost never have this up.  sure i alway have inquest on somebody and that xtra power is very nice but it's not 100% that you will get lots of power back.  Only time i use this spell is when my groups have to stay in an AoE and take damage. that little xtra heal helps a little but this is the only time i use it. 

 

Fervent Focus - now this really makes me sad.  Templars make the group immune to everything yay.  i get something that can't even cure the things that they are immune to.  sure it's a shorter recast but doesn't make up for the gimpness that the spell is.  lowering the recast MAJORLY or changing the spell a bit is a must.

 

Verdict -  I have tried and tried and tried to make this spell work.  xp groups nope this is pointless, raids the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing is dead before it goes off even witht he 1 second change.  even in emergencies when the raid is dieing or just the dps isn't there it's hard to make a use of it.  sure i cast it every time but i'm positive the effect isn't that great.  I would love to see this spell changed to become a curse so that when the % is reached that's when the spell takes effect.  maybe an increase in % as well but that's asking a lot.

 

Symbol of Corruption - I know a lot of people don't talk about this spell but i had to add it in there.  another spell i cast all the time even though i'm 70.  I know the xtra decrease in wisdom isn't much but it's something i guess.  I just wish we had something better like the druids that give them better power regen.

 

Debuffs - the forced line is ok i guess, but i wish the mit debuff and str/int debuff lines were encounter as well.  the recasts are too long and finding all the mobs that don't have the debuffs is sometimes impossible plus the recasts are too long to put on many mobs.  another thing people say is sure over time that little extra damage helps so you can't complain.  well that kinda sucks when you see brigands and swashy's put up their debuffs and you see a MASSIVE difference not to mention they do pretty good damage.  Shamens also have good dps debuffs or overall debuffs.  not really sure about druid ones though. the Heritic line is nice just wish it did more damage or at least a quicker recast.

 

Buffs- I think all priest buffs are around the same as in buffing mit and everying buffs a certain resist.  as far as single target buffs go i'm a little dissapointed yes we had almost 1k hp with consecrated aura master 1  but furies buff int and power i believe as well as adding procs and that one single target buff that adds more haste and dps then aura.  yes it's a proc but when that spell is put on me when i play alts its up a lot.  our proc line honestly i wish the proc rate was increased because it doesn't go off enough to waste a concentration.

 

Utility -  one of my favorite spell is our root.  i wish it had the same amount of root time before or a shorter recast but overall one of my favorite spells.  it even becomes useful on some raids when the enemies arn't true epics.  Our fear becomes useful in some xp groups but can sometimes go bad.  it's never good in raids as most things won't even let me cast it on them. 

 

Rezzes -  templar and pally rez is very nice.  i wish our rez just gave back more power then i would be happy

 

Some may see my post as negative i see it as the way it is. I believe i play my class to the best of my ability but it's hard to keep a chin up when other classes do everything better and you hear about it all the time : (  We don't go in the MT group templars do, yes i  know we can sub for a templar but the fact is they have better buffs.  We don't go in the DPS groups Furies do.  Sure i know we add that 30% dps but furies add int and procs and everything dps groups want.  What are we? we are the junk group healer. everybody who is there but doesn't have a raid defining role is in that group and thats where we will be until something is changed.  YES YES i know i'm proud to be an inquis but the fact is we don't really have anything that is vital or noticiable for a raid. 

[inhumanus1986]

OK if the Inquisitor world was run by Inumanus Nex.1. Our reactive damage spells could be set at 5 for target and 9 for group.  I would hope we could pre cast it and the devs may want to take some damage off because it procs more, but it will be up longer than the 3 and 5 it does ow just to target.2. 20 to 30 % more damage to spells (i think its coming in LU21).ZEALOTRYboosts all stats by 30hastes by 35%extra reactive x 9 aoeduration 30 secondsrecast 5 minno stun or stifle to usFERVENT FOCUSprevents x amount of levels of control effects, incuding interruptsduration 30 secrecasts 30 seccan be precasts b4 combat to keep the control effecs from harming usHERESYsingle target - stun, knock down, 300 to 500 damage, duration 20 seconds, 20% chance to break per attackTarget in Groupcasts heretics insanityduration 20 secondsinflicts 300 to 500 damagetargets turns and attacks patry members (please let it be the healer!!)attempts to cure the spell casts knockdown etc as it should now  for 3 triggers20 % to break per damagelove to use this one doing writs, and watch the three stooges action happenrecasts 1 minuteVERDICTno good ideas atm, will try to come up w somethingall in all very good ideas to have the devs to ponder from all you guysInhumanus Nex60 InquisitorKnights TemplarNektulous server

[bellstar]

I think something that would add some interest to the Inquisitor class would be to make us a little more "judgemental."  The Verdict spell allows us to "judge" the worthiness of mobs at the appropriate hp percentage...and it's kind of fun to see the hammer come down on them.  The verdict line would be greatly improved if we could cast it, allow the spell to have a mini-duration, then have its effect trigger at the appropriate hp percentage.  Killing a mob outright would be nice too!  Reducing them to 1hp or 0hp is not much of a big difference.  Then people can visually see our power and learn to fear it over time.  Come on throw us Inquisitors a bone, we need killshots too!

 

Another spell that wouldn't be overpowered, would be able to immediately judge the classes of the mobs we encounter.  A vision, very similar to aura sense for erudites, would allow us to see if mobs were casters, healers, scouts, or fighters.  This would then allow the Inquisitor to use a spell appropriate for defeating that mob....Heresy, Invocation, Debase, etc.  I know you can pretty much figure out what class a mob is by clicking on its name and mousing over the buffs, but a vision of this sense would be a nice shorthand for Inquisitors.  And in new zones with new unfamiliar mob names, an Inquisitor can easily help the tank determine which mob needs to die first.

[Bazzaz]

You are talking much about debuffs good or not good.

I sometimes duo with a necromancer friend who is same lvl as me(6 and I

have the opportunity to try different debuffs on the mobs beating on the necro pet.

When we were fighting triple ups, lvl 69, in Bonemire the other day, I really

noticed how good Forced Obediance is!!

Believe me, that spell is awesome, if you havent used it much.

Master 1 version takes down the mobs offensive skill with 27....suddenly I could go

in and melee, cast dots and such, instead of chain healing the pet. Its a group debuff, but is uber on solo encounters

too of course.

This is the first spell I cast when mob is inc (reactive casted on pull though) and it really makes a difference....second

spell is Convict ( cause i dont need to heal heavy after obediance), just enjoy how much better everyone can hit the mob=)

Debuffs are your biggest friend imo.

 

Laters

 

 

Message Edited by Bazzaz on 03-31-200612:39 AM