BARD FiX - Suggestions - Page 15

Mayl · 12-12-2006, 08:46 PM

Cyanbane wrote:
I would like to see a couple of things as I am getting into my 60s.

Some type of realignment of buffs. I understand that I will probably be around as a buffbot in raids at 70 and honestly I am ok with that. It still helps out a group, but I would like to be able to use single target buffs on one person in the grp and have that person's concentration slot used up (what better way to ask if they really want it or not? I sing my song for them generally, not myself).

I would like to see Selo's run through T6 and increase our group speed.

Somthing else that helps define our class doesn't necessarily have to be an in combat ability (ex porting etc). I love my dirge and will continue to play it regardless but I would like to see some more character class driven changes for bards. Vangard's Bard system intricacies put EQ2s to shame.

-Cyan

wow... the vanguard bard SOUNDS very nice... that's the bard i've always wanted to play

Reptilianb · 12-13-2006, 06:30 AM

A Sign

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=69092#M69092

Acolos/Acoloss

Lordviperscorpian · 12-13-2006, 07:25 AM

Maylon wrote:

Cyanbane wrote:I would like to see a couple of things as I am getting into my 60s. Some type of realignment of buffs. I understand that I will probably be around as a buffbot in raids at 70 and honestly I am ok with that. It still helps out a group, but I would like to be able to use single target buffs on one person in the grp and have that person's concentration slot used up (what better way to ask if they really want it or not? I sing my song for them generally, not myself).I would like to see Selo's run through T6 and increase our group speed.Somthing else that helps define our class doesn't necessarily have to be an in combat ability (ex porting etc). I love my dirge and will continue to play it regardless but I would like to see some more character class driven changes for bards. Vangard's Bard system intricacies put EQ2s to shame.-Cyan

wow... the vanguard bard SOUNDS very nice... that's the bard i've always wanted to play

The vanguard bard puts the eq2 bard to shame. Then agian vanguard puts eq2 to shame as a whole. Once they release pvp beta i doubt ill be playing eq2 much. As for lockeye's comment... About time. When i saw the dirge post about our str being removed off our hate buff i just laughed and thought to myself... "Wow look at that, another hit to bards, they are just slowly nerfing them into nothing." Then i saw lockeyes responce and it put my thoughts at ease. If he is looking into bard gameplay as a whole, and makes GOOD changes i doubt well miss some str. I just hope he really puts some time and effort into the changes.Of course theres no telling when these "changes" are going to happen. Im hoping well atleast be updated on whats happening.

Cuz · 12-13-2006, 08:02 PM

Lordviperscorpian wrote:
The vanguard bard puts the eq2 bard to shame. Then agian vanguard puts eq2 to shame as a whole. Once they release pvp beta i doubt ill be playing eq2 much.

The bard design is really nice, too bad the game is/was terrible. During beta I had to resubscribe to EQ2 just to clean the bad taste in my mouth.

Reptilianb · 12-13-2006, 08:38 PM

I hope the changes add things, and not take what we have away and give us something junk.

Some starts include:

Faster incombat/outcombat run speed

Aoe Mez/Fear

Charm that doesn't break or lasts twice as long at least - oh, and the ability to send it to attack. why can we not do this in pvp now? Charm Encounter?

Fear that doesn't break or lasts twice as long

Defensive Stance (i'm a musical guy with mega fast run speed, rubbish dps, i expect really to be a chain wearing monk sort of defence)

Debuff a lot more, even if it is single target stuff... everyone talks about bards uber debuffs.. eh? our debuffs are very poor (troubs are)

A 15 minute Ability would be fun --- maybe 25minute charm in pve, 30sec in pvp -- why can all these other classes charm stuff for many minutes, and troubs can't, even though a troub should be second in line to a chanter for CC.

some ideas....

Copy spell.. u cast on your enemy and it duplicates it for 12 seconds and attacks the mob.. like the mob in obelisk of bllight that creates dopplers.

Maybe give us some tanking abilities if we get defencive stance

Teleport Group

Acolos

oh yeh... and Turn into a big dragon like the solo part of MArk of Awakening?

Lordviperscorpian · 12-13-2006, 08:57 PM

Jenoy wrote:

Lordviperscorpian wrote:
The vanguard bard puts the eq2 bard to shame. Then agian vanguard puts eq2 to shame as a whole. Once they release pvp beta i doubt ill be playing eq2 much.

The bard design is really nice, too bad the game is/was terrible. During beta I had to resubscribe to EQ2 just to clean the bad taste in my mouth.

Well its beta...EQ2 and EQ1 in beta were awful games. But thats what beta is for...As of the last couple of patches the game has gotten 1000000 times better. Its turning out to be everything they say it will be. The classes dont follow some lame scripted combat/skill list. Everyone has UNIQUE abilities. Look at the bard in EQ2, we get a backstab that lowers wisdom. Troubs get the same backstab that lowers int. The other scouts also have the same variation of the spell...Thats the bards biggest flaw in EQ2...they followed the skill script of the other scout classes. Of course its going to end up watered down and unimaginative.

Cuz · 12-13-2006, 09:11 PM

Lordviperscorpian wrote:

Thats the bards biggest flaw in EQ2...they followed the skill script of the other scout classes. Of course its going to end up watered down and unimaginative.

In my opinion troubs are a hybrid of rogues and chanters. Personally I find them to be 2 (yeah yeah it's actually 4) of the funnest classes in the game, but somehow troubs ended up being the dullest class I've played. Wierd how that worked out huh?

Message Edited by Jenoy on 12-13-2006 11:11 AM

Lordviperscorpian · 12-13-2006, 09:14 PM

Jenoy wrote:

Lordviperscorpian wrote:
Thats the bards biggest flaw in EQ2...they followed the skill script of the other scout classes. Of course its going to end up watered down and unimaginative.

In my opinion troubs are a hybrid of rogues and chanters. Personally I find them to be 2 (yeah yeah it's actually 4) of the funnest classes in the game, but somehow troubs ended up being the dullest class I've played. Wierd how that worked out huh?
Message Edited by Jenoy on 12-13-2006 11:11 AM

Well troubs were hit hard by the enchanters whining about crowd control. They did have alot of flavor when they could acually do more than just type /autofollow. Its all good now though, bards finnally get theres. Now we get a chance to get revamped and push some other class to the side. HAH! Take that other classes. Were movin up!

Cuz · 12-13-2006, 09:26 PM

Lordviperscorpian wrote:

Jenoy wrote:

Lordviperscorpian wrote:

Thats the bards biggest flaw in EQ2...they followed the skill script of the other scout classes. Of course its going to end up watered down and unimaginative.

In my opinion troubs are a hybrid of rogues and chanters. Personally I find them to be 2 (yeah yeah it's actually 4) of the funnest classes in the game, but somehow troubs ended up being the dullest class I've played. Wierd how that worked out huh?
Message Edited by Jenoy on 12-13-2006 11:11 AM

Well troubs were hit hard by the enchanters whining about crowd control. They did have alot of flavor when they could acually do more than just type /autofollow.

Its all good now though, bards finnally get theres. Now we get a chance to get revamped and push some other class to the side. HAH! Take that other classes. Were movin up!

*I'm in a good mood today so my posts will be uncharastically positive.*

Now that that's out of the way, I think the troub nerf wasn't so much because of chanters but more a philosophy change by the devs. The problem with chanters was that you didn't need them, and in fact they could actually be detremental if you took them instead of another DPS or healer. Now they couldn't really create zones where you needed crowd control where only 2 classes would shine. So what I think they decided right around DoF, is to spread some crowd control to each of the classes, while still keepin the chanters as top of the pop.

With that in place they were able to design zones where crow control was more important. However the side effect was that they introduced too much crowd control and in the zones where it wasn't important it made those zones almost trivial. So they "had" to revert to chanters being leagues ahead of the others.

Now I'm not tottaly against that line of thinking; however, I find that they either removed too much from some classes, or didn't compensate enough.

That's my rant on that.

DankShasta · 12-15-2006, 06:24 PM

thorvang wrote:
the casual bard isn't broken. it's the raiding bard that needs attention.

your stupid! for raids the bard is still a great scout!it's PvP where we suck! I do wellbut you gotta play the hell out of the class!!

Cuz · 12-15-2006, 07:37 PM

DankShasta wrote:

thorvang wrote:
the casual bard isn't broken. it's the raiding bard that needs attention.

your stupid! for raids the bard is still a great scout!it's PvP where we suck! I do wellbut you gotta play the hell out of the class!!

So because you have to be good at the class to be good with the class the it's broken?

All versions of the troub (dirge) aren't exceptional.

Reptilianb · 12-15-2006, 08:05 PM

i agree with you there Dank... BUT... from your level to lvl 70, there is big changes.. basically you get weeker and weeker, until at lvl 70 you are the weekest class in the game.

I'm certain it is the same for Dirges...

Acolos

Reptilianb · 12-15-2006, 08:14 PM

I loved the EQ1 bard...... because (as we have said in this thread before)...... the bard was only good if the player was good...

i suppose the same is still true to an extent.. but we can't perform miracles... i wouldn't mind making the class harder to play but yet more powerful... allow for quicker reaactions to different situations..

I'd like to be able to interupt more, or debuff more strongly, or using extreme ultra skill, kill 6 people at once SMILEY

Cuz · 12-15-2006, 08:19 PM

Reptilianboy wrote:

I loved the EQ1 bard...... because (as we have said in this thread before)...... the bard was only good if the player was good...

i suppose the same is still true to an extent.. but we can't perform miracles... i wouldn't mind making the class harder to play but yet more powerful... allow for quicker reaactions to different situations..

I'd like to be able to interupt more, or debuff more strongly, or using extreme ultra skill, kill 6 people at once

You pretty much summed it up right there.

Rijacki · 12-17-2006, 07:57 PM

Reptilianboy wrote:

i agree with you there Dank... BUT... from your level to lvl 70, there is big changes.. basically you get weeker and weeker, until at lvl 70 you are the weekest class in the game.

I'm certain it is the same for Dirges...

With songs that at level 44 master are significantly better than their level 58 "upgrade" adept III, yeah, dirges do get weaker as they go up in level.The optimal level range for a dirge, really, is T6. They have the best versions of almost every song with only marginal gains for those "upgraded" in T7. Sadly, I didn't start my dirge until a short bit before KoS came out, and she's the character I leveled fast. So, regretfully, I didn't hardly spend any time in T5 or T6.I'm optimistic that there will be.. umm.. adjustments. I am sceptical that we, the players of bards, will find them.. umm.. what we want or are expecting. The dev statement in the IRC chat was that they'll look to see if bards are where -they- want them. Since a dev designing armor (and wonderfully taking input) was highly baffled the stats -he- thought we'd want in spades weren't the ones we coveted to the exclusion of all else, yeah, bards are not where The Devs want them.. but are where The Devs want them where players will want to play them?

The Happyhawke · 12-20-2006, 01:19 AM

still no response huh? Devs this really is shamefull you have the entire bard community pretty much waiting on tender hooks, waiting to see if anything is being done, you really wouldnt think that we were actually paying customers in this game, i work in the custmoer service line of work and this is disgracefull we arent just posting here for the sheer hell of it you know?

like the other guys have said a thousand times already just 1 response saying yes we are or no we arent looking into the issues brought before us by these posts, this post has been going nearly 6 months with no dev input whatsoever, if i was in your position i would be at least trying to ensure that this time next year there will still be some people playing the bard classes at all.

i dont expect this to trigger a response but i cant believe they arent reading this

keep posting guys keep the thread alive we cant be ignored forever,

Jaimster · 12-20-2006, 03:18 PM

While I completely agree that someone should respond to THIS thread... apparently a dev did respond (though in a PvP forum) that bards were going to be looked into. Unfortunately, that info was followed by "specifically the run speed, though we will be looking at some other aspects"...

Reptilianb · 12-20-2006, 08:22 PM

i'm looking forward to logging in, after this patch... 95% run speed, 30% dps increase, AoE Mez, aoe stifle, aoe fear, aoe root, shorter mez recast, longer duration charm, cast while running charm, double the previous debuff numbers or single target debuffs, more powerfull buffs, mana drains... woot, we gunna be on par with some other classes, at least those that can play bards will be.Acolos

Canuckian · 12-20-2006, 08:37 PM

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i'm looking forward to logging in, after this patch... 95% run speed, 30% dps increase, AoE Mez, aoe stifle, aoe fear, aoe root, shorter mez recast, longer duration charm, cast while running charm, double the previous debuff numbers or single target debuffs, more powerfull buffs, mana drains... woot, we gunna be on par with some other classes, at least those that can play bards will be.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds good...

But realistically, how about a revision on the concentration costs of our song lineup so that we can actually USE the group abilities we have. Too long have I been disgruntled by the power of non-buff class group buffs that are equivalent too, or better than mine. With the increase skill caps I don't think it's too much to ask for Bards to be able to buff 6+ songs, and our self-buff (Daelis Flolicking of Blades for Troubs) should require no concentration whatsoever. It's been said before, but the nerfs Troubadors have consistently seen nearly every LU are demoralizing and unbalancing in a negative way. Prime example....7+ min charm reduced to 14secs at M1 with no AA modification..../boggle.

/sigh

Lordviperscorpian · 12-20-2006, 09:25 PM

We better get some form of incombat run speed. AND IM MEAN ALOT OF IT. Furies now have 35% incombat run speed. Bards are suposed to be the king of speed. Its geting out of hand now. I swear what ever the devs do they better do it right. The more and more i look at other classes AA runspeed increase lines the more i get upset. I have to seriously question every developer that worked on the Bard EoF AA's. Its common sense. A teenager that plays MMO's knows that bards = fast. The logical thing to do here is to give us more incombat/outofcombat runspeed. Yet they dont. Why? Who made that blunder. Thats what i want to know.

Fromingo · 12-20-2006, 09:49 PM

My bard does not feel like he wears chain. He feels like a robe caster. Bards are the only scout class without stances. Either give us stances or remove the concentration slot from our self only buff.

Reptilianb · 12-20-2006, 10:48 PM

Thats true Fromingo... at least in pvp... i get owned in melee combat... i think we should have greater avoidance.. being fast and all.Swashys/brigs have like 60+% avoidance in defensive, yet i'm struggling to jsut make 50% (troubs don;t get parry buff and agi buff, do get defence tho)..I feel i should dodge/parry a lot more if i dont do the dps.In pvp we can kite yes.. but what can we kite? a zerker/guardian? If they are well equipped i'm usually out of power or dead by arrows.Any good scout can keep u snared/stunned and destroy u with there dps in a very short time. Yes we can use pots for that.. but the casting time on arcane remedy usually invokes death.Fighting well equipped healers is very diffcult (virtually imposible unless they are noob) due to their resists, and as we have low dps, we cannot kill them fast enough... they jsut heal back up, maybe if the mez immunity was lowered it may be possible with some good timimg, no resists.. i.e. mezzing them after a voley of attacks, getting your timers back up, and repeating. Or.. if we had some better power draining abilities it would be more "balanced". I think steal essence should steal a LOT more power and take it off theirs.Mages - Well i don't know about Dirges... but although mages are probably the easiest to take down, they are definetly harder to take down with a troub that any other scout, again, due to highish resists and low dps, usually means fusion/ice comet or chain mez/stifle/root/fear is gunnna get u .. maybe if our "melee attacks" did melee dmg instead of mental dmg, this might increase dps on mages, but i dunno.Looking forward to see what they come up with.p.s. i think we should be able to command out charmed PCs. and, i think it would be fun to have a 15minute charm spell, that lasts 30secs-1min in pvp.. i can imagine the enemies actually laughing as they kill there friends.

VericSauvari · 12-20-2006, 11:51 PM

so..live update 30 is out....and despite our /feedback, forum posts and bug posts concerning Aria and bria AA's being bugged where we have to recast it to be the proper stats...everyone BUT us bards got some AA's fixed.this bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] has to stop, if you are going to fix known AA bugs FIX THEM ALL

Lordviperscorpian · 12-21-2006, 12:07 AM

VericSauvari wrote:so..live update 30 is out....and despite our /feedback, forum posts and bug posts concerning Aria and bria AA's being bugged where we have to recast it to be the proper stats...everyone BUT us bards got some AA's fixed.this bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] has to stop, if you are going to fix known AA bugs FIX THEM ALL

I agree. Another LU and bards get jipped a bit more. Thx for taking away my str on taunt and giving me nothing in return. Could have atleast thrown in runspeed...

Reptilianb · 12-21-2006, 12:21 AM

I have a feeling LU31 is going to be it.I hope there is going to be instruments that boost our skills really high but take away melee attacks.. but.. lets face it... thats going to be lots of hard work SMILEY

Perma charming mobs with a flute, but takes away melee hits and some spells sounds good. And a horn for dirges to aoe fear none stop for easy training through sots.. sounds fun to me.Acolos

Krooner · 12-21-2006, 12:23 AM

Dear Santa. :smileymad:

Thank you for the lump of coal. Next year could I get an upgrade to a bowl of Brussle sprouts?

Yeah. Nothing really to look forward too for our class this whole holiday season because if they didnt put it in this patch they arnt likely to do anything for us until mid to late January. So we get to sit back and cool our heels for another month.

Thanks :smileysad:

Message Edited by Warbird1 on 12-20-2006 11:24 AM

ReturnOfMadness · 12-21-2006, 12:37 AM

about the aa buffs this was in the update notes:- Enhancements to targeted or group buffs should no longer reset to their base spell properties. <== i wonder if they fixed it for bards too though (wasnt this a KoS buff and if yes [Removed for Content] it didnt get fixed till now)

Reptilianb · 12-21-2006, 12:39 AM

I would like my stifle to be a spell rather than a double bow attack...

BTW ---- APPLESAUCE ---- is it possible for a dirge to beat a ranger?? I'm just thinking that is impossible for you.. at least a troub can stifle him... (unless hes in defensive as the chances of it landed is almost 0). Suppose you could root.. but u still have to get to him first... if my stifle lands i can rush him before he gets off any anything serious.. but still, i will die most of the time vs a ranger as its not exatcly a class you can kite SMILEY

I'm glad i'm on qeynos side.

Acolos

Cuz · 12-21-2006, 02:55 AM

Simple way to add instuments:

Have 3 types of instruments. One that has an average chance of procing something on spells, another on melee arts (or even just melee), and the third with the lowest proc chance but procs on both spell and melee arts.

A good bard would switch instruments before he used the appropriate spell / melee art, a lazy one would probably just take the 2 in 1.

Krooner · 12-21-2006, 03:17 AM

Jenoy wrote:

Simple way to add instuments:

Have 3 types of instruments. One that has an average chance of procing something on spells, another on melee arts (or even just melee), and the third with the lowest proc chance but procs on both spell and melee arts.

A good bard would switch instruments before he used the appropriate spell / melee art, a lazy one would probably just take the 2 in 1.

Yeah. Im just worried that with their crazy tinkering inventions they'll come out with something like.

"Mechanized gnomish one man band"

Casts all bard buffs for a limited 12 hour duration

required tinkering skill : 1

Message Edited by Warbird1 on 12-20-2006 02:17 PM

12-12-2006, 08:46 PM	#421
Mayl General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Cyanbane wrote: I would like to see a couple of things as I am getting into my 60s. Some type of realignment of buffs. I understand that I will probably be around as a buffbot in raids at 70 and honestly I am ok with that. It still helps out a group, but I would like to be able to use single target buffs on one person in the grp and have that person's concentration slot used up (what better way to ask if they really want it or not? I sing my song for them generally, not myself). I would like to see Selo's run through T6 and increase our group speed. Somthing else that helps define our class doesn't necessarily have to be an in combat ability (ex porting etc). I love my dirge and will continue to play it regardless but I would like to see some more character class driven changes for bards. Vangard's Bard system intricacies put EQ2s to shame. -Cyan wow... the vanguard bard SOUNDS very nice... that's the bard i've always wanted to play

12-13-2006, 07:25 AM	#423
Lordviperscorpian Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 405	Maylon wrote: Cyanbane wrote:I would like to see a couple of things as I am getting into my 60s. Some type of realignment of buffs. I understand that I will probably be around as a buffbot in raids at 70 and honestly I am ok with that. It still helps out a group, but I would like to be able to use single target buffs on one person in the grp and have that person's concentration slot used up (what better way to ask if they really want it or not? I sing my song for them generally, not myself).I would like to see Selo's run through T6 and increase our group speed.Somthing else that helps define our class doesn't necessarily have to be an in combat ability (ex porting etc). I love my dirge and will continue to play it regardless but I would like to see some more character class driven changes for bards. Vangard's Bard system intricacies put EQ2s to shame.-Cyan wow... the vanguard bard SOUNDS very nice... that's the bard i've always wanted to play The vanguard bard puts the eq2 bard to shame. Then agian vanguard puts eq2 to shame as a whole. Once they release pvp beta i doubt ill be playing eq2 much. As for lockeye's comment... About time. When i saw the dirge post about our str being removed off our hate buff i just laughed and thought to myself... "Wow look at that, another hit to bards, they are just slowly nerfing them into nothing." Then i saw lockeyes responce and it put my thoughts at ease. If he is looking into bard gameplay as a whole, and makes GOOD changes i doubt well miss some str. I just hope he really puts some time and effort into the changes.Of course theres no telling when these "changes" are going to happen. Im hoping well atleast be updated on whats happening.

12-13-2006, 08:02 PM	#424
Cuz Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 825	Lordviperscorpian wrote: The vanguard bard puts the eq2 bard to shame. Then agian vanguard puts eq2 to shame as a whole. Once they release pvp beta i doubt ill be playing eq2 much. The bard design is really nice, too bad the game is/was terrible. During beta I had to resubscribe to EQ2 just to clean the bad taste in my mouth. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ one immature posted ------------------------------------------------------------

12-13-2006, 08:57 PM	#426
Lordviperscorpian Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 405	Jenoy wrote: Lordviperscorpian wrote: The vanguard bard puts the eq2 bard to shame. Then agian vanguard puts eq2 to shame as a whole. Once they release pvp beta i doubt ill be playing eq2 much. The bard design is really nice, too bad the game is/was terrible. During beta I had to resubscribe to EQ2 just to clean the bad taste in my mouth. Well its beta...EQ2 and EQ1 in beta were awful games. But thats what beta is for...As of the last couple of patches the game has gotten 1000000 times better. Its turning out to be everything they say it will be. The classes dont follow some lame scripted combat/skill list. Everyone has UNIQUE abilities. Look at the bard in EQ2, we get a backstab that lowers wisdom. Troubs get the same backstab that lowers int. The other scouts also have the same variation of the spell...Thats the bards biggest flaw in EQ2...they followed the skill script of the other scout classes. Of course its going to end up watered down and unimaginative.

12-13-2006, 09:11 PM	#427
Cuz Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 825	Lordviperscorpian wrote: Thats the bards biggest flaw in EQ2...they followed the skill script of the other scout classes. Of course its going to end up watered down and unimaginative. In my opinion troubs are a hybrid of rogues and chanters. Personally I find them to be 2 (yeah yeah it's actually 4) of the funnest classes in the game, but somehow troubs ended up being the dullest class I've played. Wierd how that worked out huh? Message Edited by Jenoy on 12-13-2006 11:11 AM __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ one immature posted ------------------------------------------------------------

12-13-2006, 06:30 AM	#422
Reptilianb General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 90	A Sign http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=69092#M69092 Acolos/Acoloss

12-13-2006, 08:38 PM	#425
Reptilianb General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 90	I hope the changes add things, and not take what we have away and give us something junk. Some starts include: Faster incombat/outcombat run speed Aoe Mez/Fear Charm that doesn't break or lasts twice as long at least - oh, and the ability to send it to attack. why can we not do this in pvp now? Charm Encounter? Fear that doesn't break or lasts twice as long Defensive Stance (i'm a musical guy with mega fast run speed, rubbish dps, i expect really to be a chain wearing monk sort of defence) Debuff a lot more, even if it is single target stuff... everyone talks about bards uber debuffs.. eh? our debuffs are very poor (troubs are) A 15 minute Ability would be fun --- maybe 25minute charm in pve, 30sec in pvp -- why can all these other classes charm stuff for many minutes, and troubs can't, even though a troub should be second in line to a chanter for CC. some ideas.... Copy spell.. u cast on your enemy and it duplicates it for 12 seconds and attacks the mob.. like the mob in obelisk of bllight that creates dopplers. Maybe give us some tanking abilities if we get defencive stance Teleport Group Acolos oh yeh... and Turn into a big dragon like the solo part of MArk of Awakening?

12-13-2006, 09:14 PM	#428
Lordviperscorpian Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 405	Jenoy wrote: Lordviperscorpian wrote: Thats the bards biggest flaw in EQ2...they followed the skill script of the other scout classes. Of course its going to end up watered down and unimaginative. In my opinion troubs are a hybrid of rogues and chanters. Personally I find them to be 2 (yeah yeah it's actually 4) of the funnest classes in the game, but somehow troubs ended up being the dullest class I've played. Wierd how that worked out huh? Message Edited by Jenoy on 12-13-2006 11:11 AM Well troubs were hit hard by the enchanters whining about crowd control. They did have alot of flavor when they could acually do more than just type /autofollow. Its all good now though, bards finnally get theres. Now we get a chance to get revamped and push some other class to the side. HAH! Take that other classes. Were movin up!

12-13-2006, 09:26 PM	#429
Cuz Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 825	Lordviperscorpian wrote: Jenoy wrote: Lordviperscorpian wrote: Thats the bards biggest flaw in EQ2...they followed the skill script of the other scout classes. Of course its going to end up watered down and unimaginative. In my opinion troubs are a hybrid of rogues and chanters. Personally I find them to be 2 (yeah yeah it's actually 4) of the funnest classes in the game, but somehow troubs ended up being the dullest class I've played. Wierd how that worked out huh? Message Edited by Jenoy on 12-13-2006 11:11 AM Well troubs were hit hard by the enchanters whining about crowd control. They did have alot of flavor when they could acually do more than just type /autofollow. Its all good now though, bards finnally get theres. Now we get a chance to get revamped and push some other class to the side. HAH! Take that other classes. Were movin up! I'm in a good mood today so my posts will be uncharastically positive. Now that that's out of the way, I think the troub nerf wasn't so much because of chanters but more a philosophy change by the devs. The problem with chanters was that you didn't need them, and in fact they could actually be detremental if you took them instead of another DPS or healer. Now they couldn't really create zones where you needed crowd control where only 2 classes would shine. So what I think they decided right around DoF, is to spread some crowd control to each of the classes, while still keepin the chanters as top of the pop. With that in place they were able to design zones where crow control was more important. However the side effect was that they introduced too much crowd control and in the zones where it wasn't important it made those zones almost trivial. So they "had" to revert to chanters being leagues ahead of the others. Now I'm not tottaly against that line of thinking; however, I find that they either removed too much from some classes, or didn't compensate enough. That's my rant on that. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ one immature posted ------------------------------------------------------------

12-15-2006, 06:24 PM	#430
DankShasta Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 104	thorvang wrote: the casual bard isn't broken. it's the raiding bard that needs attention. your stupid! for raids the bard is still a great scout!it's PvP where we suck! I do wellbut you gotta play the hell out of the class!!

12-15-2006, 07:37 PM	#431
Cuz Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 825	DankShasta wrote: thorvang wrote: the casual bard isn't broken. it's the raiding bard that needs attention. your stupid! for raids the bard is still a great scout!it's PvP where we suck! I do wellbut you gotta play the hell out of the class!! So because you have to be good at the class to be good with the class the it's broken? All versions of the troub (dirge) aren't exceptional. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ one immature posted ------------------------------------------------------------

12-15-2006, 08:05 PM	#432
Reptilianb General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 90	i agree with you there Dank... BUT... from your level to lvl 70, there is big changes.. basically you get weeker and weeker, until at lvl 70 you are the weekest class in the game. I'm certain it is the same for Dirges... Acolos

12-15-2006, 08:14 PM	#433
Reptilianb General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 90	I loved the EQ1 bard...... because (as we have said in this thread before)...... the bard was only good if the player was good... i suppose the same is still true to an extent.. but we can't perform miracles... i wouldn't mind making the class harder to play but yet more powerful... allow for quicker reaactions to different situations.. I'd like to be able to interupt more, or debuff more strongly, or using extreme ultra skill, kill 6 people at once

12-15-2006, 08:19 PM	#434
Cuz Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 825	Reptilianboy wrote: I loved the EQ1 bard...... because (as we have said in this thread before)...... the bard was only good if the player was good... i suppose the same is still true to an extent.. but we can't perform miracles... i wouldn't mind making the class harder to play but yet more powerful... allow for quicker reaactions to different situations.. I'd like to be able to interupt more, or debuff more strongly, or using extreme ultra skill, kill 6 people at once You pretty much summed it up right there. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ one immature posted ------------------------------------------------------------

12-17-2006, 07:57 PM	#435
Rijacki Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,842	Reptilianboy wrote: i agree with you there Dank... BUT... from your level to lvl 70, there is big changes.. basically you get weeker and weeker, until at lvl 70 you are the weekest class in the game. I'm certain it is the same for Dirges... With songs that at level 44 master are significantly better than their level 58 "upgrade" adept III, yeah, dirges do get weaker as they go up in level.The optimal level range for a dirge, really, is T6. They have the best versions of almost every song with only marginal gains for those "upgraded" in T7. Sadly, I didn't start my dirge until a short bit before KoS came out, and she's the character I leveled fast. So, regretfully, I didn't hardly spend any time in T5 or T6.I'm optimistic that there will be.. umm.. adjustments. I am sceptical that we, the players of bards, will find them.. umm.. what we want or are expecting. The dev statement in the IRC chat was that they'll look to see if bards are where -they- want them. Since a dev designing armor (and wonderfully taking input) was highly baffled the stats -he- thought we'd want in spades weren't the ones we coveted to the exclusion of all else, yeah, bards are not where The Devs want them.. but are where The Devs want them where players will want to play them? __________________

12-20-2006, 01:19 AM	#436
The Happyhawke Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15	still no response huh? Devs this really is shamefull you have the entire bard community pretty much waiting on tender hooks, waiting to see if anything is being done, you really wouldnt think that we were actually paying customers in this game, i work in the custmoer service line of work and this is disgracefull we arent just posting here for the sheer hell of it you know? like the other guys have said a thousand times already just 1 response saying yes we are or no we arent looking into the issues brought before us by these posts, this post has been going nearly 6 months with no dev input whatsoever, if i was in your position i would be at least trying to ensure that this time next year there will still be some people playing the bard classes at all. i dont expect this to trigger a response but i cant believe they arent reading this keep posting guys keep the thread alive we cant be ignored forever,

12-20-2006, 03:18 PM	#437
Jaimster Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 256	While I completely agree that someone should respond to THIS thread... apparently a dev did respond (though in a PvP forum) that bards were going to be looked into. Unfortunately, that info was followed by "specifically the run speed, though we will be looking at some other aspects"... __________________

12-20-2006, 08:22 PM	#438
Reptilianb General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 90	i'm looking forward to logging in, after this patch... 95% run speed, 30% dps increase, AoE Mez, aoe stifle, aoe fear, aoe root, shorter mez recast, longer duration charm, cast while running charm, double the previous debuff numbers or single target debuffs, more powerfull buffs, mana drains... woot, we gunna be on par with some other classes, at least those that can play bards will be.Acolos

12-20-2006, 08:37 PM	#439
Canuckian Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i'm looking forward to logging in, after this patch... 95% run speed, 30% dps increase, AoE Mez, aoe stifle, aoe fear, aoe root, shorter mez recast, longer duration charm, cast while running charm, double the previous debuff numbers or single target debuffs, more powerfull buffs, mana drains... woot, we gunna be on par with some other classes, at least those that can play bards will be. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sounds good... But realistically, how about a revision on the concentration costs of our song lineup so that we can actually USE the group abilities we have. Too long have I been disgruntled by the power of non-buff class group buffs that are equivalent too, or better than mine. With the increase skill caps I don't think it's too much to ask for Bards to be able to buff 6+ songs, and our self-buff (Daelis Flolicking of Blades for Troubs) should require no concentration whatsoever. It's been said before, but the nerfs Troubadors have consistently seen nearly every LU are demoralizing and unbalancing in a negative way. Prime example....7+ min charm reduced to 14secs at M1 with no AA modification..../boggle. /sigh __________________ http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/ATCCanuck/stealthy_smallcopy.jpg

12-20-2006, 09:25 PM	#440
Lordviperscorpian Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 405	We better get some form of incombat run speed. AND IM MEAN ALOT OF IT. Furies now have 35% incombat run speed. Bards are suposed to be the king of speed. Its geting out of hand now. I swear what ever the devs do they better do it right. The more and more i look at other classes AA runspeed increase lines the more i get upset. I have to seriously question every developer that worked on the Bard EoF AA's. Its common sense. A teenager that plays MMO's knows that bards = fast. The logical thing to do here is to give us more incombat/outofcombat runspeed. Yet they dont. Why? Who made that blunder. Thats what i want to know.

12-20-2006, 09:49 PM	#441
Fromingo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 536	My bard does not feel like he wears chain. He feels like a robe caster. Bards are the only scout class without stances. Either give us stances or remove the concentration slot from our self only buff.

12-20-2006, 10:48 PM	#442
Reptilianb General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 90	Thats true Fromingo... at least in pvp... i get owned in melee combat... i think we should have greater avoidance.. being fast and all.Swashys/brigs have like 60+% avoidance in defensive, yet i'm struggling to jsut make 50% (troubs don;t get parry buff and agi buff, do get defence tho)..I feel i should dodge/parry a lot more if i dont do the dps.In pvp we can kite yes.. but what can we kite? a zerker/guardian? If they are well equipped i'm usually out of power or dead by arrows.Any good scout can keep u snared/stunned and destroy u with there dps in a very short time. Yes we can use pots for that.. but the casting time on arcane remedy usually invokes death.Fighting well equipped healers is very diffcult (virtually imposible unless they are noob) due to their resists, and as we have low dps, we cannot kill them fast enough... they jsut heal back up, maybe if the mez immunity was lowered it may be possible with some good timimg, no resists.. i.e. mezzing them after a voley of attacks, getting your timers back up, and repeating. Or.. if we had some better power draining abilities it would be more "balanced". I think steal essence should steal a LOT more power and take it off theirs.Mages - Well i don't know about Dirges... but although mages are probably the easiest to take down, they are definetly harder to take down with a troub that any other scout, again, due to highish resists and low dps, usually means fusion/ice comet or chain mez/stifle/root/fear is gunnna get u .. maybe if our "melee attacks" did melee dmg instead of mental dmg, this might increase dps on mages, but i dunno.Looking forward to see what they come up with.p.s. i think we should be able to command out charmed PCs. and, i think it would be fun to have a 15minute charm spell, that lasts 30secs-1min in pvp.. i can imagine the enemies actually laughing as they kill there friends.

12-20-2006, 11:51 PM	#443
VericSauvari Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 302	so..live update 30 is out....and despite our /feedback, forum posts and bug posts concerning Aria and bria AA's being bugged where we have to recast it to be the proper stats...everyone BUT us bards got some AA's fixed.this bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] has to stop, if you are going to fix known AA bugs FIX THEM ALL __________________ (boycott pay-2-pwn (RMT) !

12-21-2006, 12:07 AM	#444
Lordviperscorpian Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 405	VericSauvari wrote:so..live update 30 is out....and despite our /feedback, forum posts and bug posts concerning Aria and bria AA's being bugged where we have to recast it to be the proper stats...everyone BUT us bards got some AA's fixed.this bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] has to stop, if you are going to fix known AA bugs FIX THEM ALL I agree. Another LU and bards get jipped a bit more. Thx for taking away my str on taunt and giving me nothing in return. Could have atleast thrown in runspeed...

12-21-2006, 12:21 AM	#445
Reptilianb General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 90	I have a feeling LU31 is going to be it.I hope there is going to be instruments that boost our skills really high but take away melee attacks.. but.. lets face it... thats going to be lots of hard work Perma charming mobs with a flute, but takes away melee hits and some spells sounds good. And a horn for dirges to aoe fear none stop for easy training through sots.. sounds fun to me.Acolos

12-21-2006, 12:23 AM	#446
Krooner Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 912	Dear Santa. :smileymad: Thank you for the lump of coal. Next year could I get an upgrade to a bowl of Brussle sprouts? Yeah. Nothing really to look forward too for our class this whole holiday season because if they didnt put it in this patch they arnt likely to do anything for us until mid to late January. So we get to sit back and cool our heels for another month. Thanks :smileysad: Message Edited by Warbird1 on 12-20-2006 11:24 AM

12-21-2006, 12:37 AM	#447
ReturnOfMadness Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 213	about the aa buffs this was in the update notes:- Enhancements to targeted or group buffs should no longer reset to their base spell properties. <== i wonder if they fixed it for bards too though (wasnt this a KoS buff and if yes [Removed for Content] it didnt get fixed till now) __________________ - Signed Kungao -lvl 80 buffbot - 80 alchemist - 400 tinkerer

12-21-2006, 12:39 AM	#448
Reptilianb General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 90	I would like my stifle to be a spell rather than a double bow attack... BTW ---- APPLESAUCE ---- is it possible for a dirge to beat a ranger?? I'm just thinking that is impossible for you.. at least a troub can stifle him... (unless hes in defensive as the chances of it landed is almost 0). Suppose you could root.. but u still have to get to him first... if my stifle lands i can rush him before he gets off any anything serious.. but still, i will die most of the time vs a ranger as its not exatcly a class you can kite I'm glad i'm on qeynos side. Acolos

12-21-2006, 02:55 AM	#449
Cuz Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 825	Simple way to add instuments: Have 3 types of instruments. One that has an average chance of procing something on spells, another on melee arts (or even just melee), and the third with the lowest proc chance but procs on both spell and melee arts. A good bard would switch instruments before he used the appropriate spell / melee art, a lazy one would probably just take the 2 in 1. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ one immature posted ------------------------------------------------------------

12-21-2006, 03:17 AM	#450
Krooner Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 912	Jenoy wrote: Simple way to add instuments: Have 3 types of instruments. One that has an average chance of procing something on spells, another on melee arts (or even just melee), and the third with the lowest proc chance but procs on both spell and melee arts. A good bard would switch instruments before he used the appropriate spell / melee art, a lazy one would probably just take the 2 in 1. Yeah. Im just worried that with their crazy tinkering inventions they'll come out with something like. "Mechanized gnomish one man band" Casts all bard buffs for a limited 12 hour duration required tinkering skill : 1 Message Edited by Warbird1 on 12-20-2006 02:17 PM