Amazing Reflexes - the nerf is in... - Page 15

Zamla1770 · 12-19-2006, 05:58 PM

Whats really sad is that it would take one minute to come in to this thread and say what soe intends for AR, is it said before?

If so maybe a it needs to be said again, seems a lot of Brigands still dont know, me included.

AR is a big topic for Brigands, the biggest atm, some sort of feedback would be most welcome.

FuzzBall · 12-19-2006, 08:46 PM

Valeros wrote:
Honestly, if 18 pages isnt enough to warrant a dev response, what is? All we need is at least a confirmation that this is be looked at, or an alternative version is being considered. I'm sure theres someone who works there that actually plays there Brigand and shares the same views. Anything is better than silence.

You assume that the devs care what we think... They dont. To us, we are nothing. We are the scum, they expect us to pander to their every need. They consider themselves above us in so many ways so why would they bother to grace us with their thoughtful insights? They couldnt care less if this thread was 1 page long or 1000 pages long. You wont get an answer from them, we are too small and little for them to waste their time

FuzzBall · 12-19-2006, 08:48 PM

Zagats wrote:
The only thing we can do now is start spamming their inboxes until they get the hint.

Firstly, they wont read it and secondly, youll only get yourself banned from the forums, take it from me, the devs REALLY dont like critisism or suggestions

tehh4x · 12-19-2006, 09:13 PM

they like our money:smileysad:

DarkMirrax · 12-19-2006, 11:35 PM

everyone read the combat discussions thread btw ?

xPAGANx · 12-19-2006, 11:38 PM

FuzzBall wrote:

Valeros wrote:
Honestly, if 18 pages isnt enough to warrant a dev response, what is? All we need is at least a confirmation that this is be looked at, or an alternative version is being considered. I'm sure theres someone who works there that actually plays there Brigand and shares the same views. Anything is better than silence.

You assume that the devs care what we think... They dont. To us, we are nothing. We are the scum, they expect us to pander to their every need. They consider themselves above us in so many ways so why would they bother to grace us with their thoughtful insights? They couldnt care less if this thread was 1 page long or 1000 pages long. You wont get an answer from them, we are too small and little for them to waste their time

You assume the devs don't care what you think. The fact of the matter is the devs saw a need for change. While it may not be the most ideal change, it was not done to make everyone hate their characters. It is one ability... Your class is not based on that one ability. If you think it is, you need to reexamine how to play your class.

Everyone knows MMORPGS change over the course of time. If you cannot handle that and adapt, go play an unwavering game such as Final Fantasy XII.

Put yourself in the devs shoes. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. What do you do?

InquisitorR · 12-19-2006, 11:40 PM

xPaganx wrote: If you cannot handle that and adapt, go play an unwavering game such as Final Fantasy XII.no way, that game changed WAY too much from the classic FF's...real time, members walk around with you...I CANT ADAPT!

xPAGANx · 12-19-2006, 11:43 PM

InquisitorRed wrote:
xPaganx wrote: If you cannot handle that and adapt, go play an unwavering game such as Final Fantasy XII.

no way, that game changed WAY too much from the classic FF's...real time, members walk around with you...I CANT ADAPT!

What I mean is the game will always be the same as it was when you first took it out of the box.

Zagats · 12-20-2006, 12:02 AM

(I'm most fond of FF2) At least I'd have the peace of mind to know that Rydia can still summon Bahamut, and Edge can still throw *spoon* at Zerumus to cause 9999 damage... you'll never stop the spoon!!!!

As for this quote :

Put yourself in the devs shoes. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. What do you do?

Here's what I do:

1 - evaluate the situation... 100% AoE immunity is overpowered? Hrm.. ok. Agreed. It needs a change.

2- make a SUITABLE change. Ability changed to a push-to-use hotkey. Makes caster Immune to AoE for 10 secs, recast time 60 seconds. Done. Ability not overpowered, but useful.

It's really not hard to come up with GOOD changes, you just have to understand what's going on.

Message Edited by Zagats on 12-19-2006 11:02 AM

FuzzBall · 12-20-2006, 12:02 AM

xPAGANx wrote:

FuzzBall wrote:

Valeros wrote:
Honestly, if 18 pages isnt enough to warrant a dev response, what is? All we need is at least a confirmation that this is be looked at, or an alternative version is being considered. I'm sure theres someone who works there that actually plays there Brigand and shares the same views. Anything is better than silence.

You assume that the devs care what we think... They dont. To us, we are nothing. We are the scum, they expect us to pander to their every need. They consider themselves above us in so many ways so why would they bother to grace us with their thoughtful insights? They couldnt care less if this thread was 1 page long or 1000 pages long. You wont get an answer from them, we are too small and little for them to waste their time

You assume the devs don't care what you think. The fact of the matter is the devs saw a need for change. While it may not be the most ideal change, it was not done to make everyone hate their characters. It is one ability... Your class is not based on that one ability. If you think it is, you need to reexamine how to play your class.

Everyone knows MMORPGS change over the course of time. If you cannot handle that and adapt, go play an unwavering game such as Final Fantasy XII.

Put yourself in the devs shoes. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. What do you do?

Well, firstly, I wouldnt simply ignore the playerbase by giving them the finger by ignoring them, as Lockeye doesthen I would make sure that I dont place changes on servers without any of them being on beta / test so that I can weight on the feedback, instead of just putting nerfs live without testing, as Lockeye does.then I would ask for feedback from the playerbase instead of giving them the finger by ignoring them, as Lockeye doesthen I would give my thoughts and ideas about the issues facing the playerbase instead of giving them the finger by ignoring them, as Lockeye doesand finally, I would state the intention of my position of where things currently stand and will progress intead of giving the playerbase the finger by ignoring them, as Lockeye does.Lockeye may see himself above us, sure, he doesnt have to post squat in here but by doing so, he makes himself enemy #1.

Message Edited by FuzzBall on 12-19-2006 01:04 PM

DarkMirrax · 12-20-2006, 12:30 AM

lockeye is one dev he isnt wholy resposible for the changes and we cant blame him for it , doing so will just mean he ignore the thead longer ..

FuzzBall · 12-20-2006, 03:36 AM

As hes the one primarily responsible for spells and achievements, as he has in his sig, Im guessing hes a good start.As for ignoring it longer? When was the last time he posted in teh brig forums? It was Oct 2005 in the warden forums...

ag · 12-20-2006, 04:55 AM

"Put yourself in the devs shoes. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. What do you do?"Given the nature of the AR change, this is how I would have handled it:The dev solicits Beta Tester input, for one week, in a sub-class thread that is pruned/collated daily so all the ideas are put into one post. All non-idea posts are deleted out of the thread. Forum moderators do all this work.Then at the end of that week, the dev addresses each idea in turn explaining clearly and concisely why it will or will not be considered.The final thread has two posts by the developer, (the ideas, and the comments) and is locked. Then the dev goes to the development environment and codes the solution, pushes it to test (or Beta) for customer feedback, and iterates if the results are unsatisfactory.---There's an infinite number of better ways to solicit input rather than the way it is now, which is not at all. Players are always angry because we're always reacting. Even voting buttons in game so players of ONLY that sub-class of a certain level range (that the change would affect, in this case 52-70) could make a choice would be better. But apparently SOE can't/won't do that, for whatever reason.It boggles me that with all the technological solutions available to solicit input, these rediculously outdated forums are still used.Voting buttons with limited options are a great way to get player feedback in Beta, Test, and at the players choice, in Production/Live. But SOE doesn't do that. Why not? Good question. Not a priority, I guess.So the unsolicited, no-warning, extremely un-fun changes keep coming, and the vocal minority keeps flailing. Apparently this is "working as intended".Remember, it was evidently FINE for FOURTEEN MONTHS. Over a year, for those of you that have difficulty counting. Why was it fine for 14 months, and suddenly it was not fine? Anyone care to answer that?EDIT: typo!

Message Edited by agra on 12-19-2006 04:56 PM

NemaLVey · 12-20-2006, 05:08 AM

agra wrote:
"Put yourself in the devs shoes. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. What do you do?"

Given the nature of the AR change, this is how I would have handled it:

The dev solicits Beta Tester input, for one week, in a sub-class thread that is pruned/collated daily so all the ideas are put into one post. All non-idea posts are deleted out of the thread. Forum moderators do all this work.

Then at the end of that week, the dev addresses each idea in turn explaining clearly and concisely why it will or will not be considered.

The final thread has two posts by the developer, (the ideas, and the comments) and is locked.

Then the dev goes to the development environment and codes the solution, pushes it to test (or Beta) for customer feedback, and iterates if the results are unsatisfactory.
---

There's an infinite number of better ways to solicit input rather than the way it is now, which is not at all. Players are always angry because we're always reacting. Even voting buttons in game so players of ONLY that sub-class of a certain level range (that the change would affect, in this case 52-70) could make a choice would be better. But apparently SOE can't/won't do that, for whatever reason.

It boggles me that with all the technological solutions available to solicit input, these rediculously outdated forums are still used.

Voting buttons with limited options are a great way to get player feedback in Beta, Test, and at the players choice, in Production/Live. But SOE doesn't do that. Why not? Good question. Not a priority, I guess.

So the unsolicited, no-warning, extremely un-fun changes keep coming, and the vocal minority keeps flailing. Apparently this is "working as intended".

Remember, it was evidently FINE for FOURTEEN MONTHS. Over a year, for those of you that have difficulty counting. Why was it fine for 14 months, and suddenly it was not fine? Anyone care to answer that?

EDIT: typo!
Message Edited by agra on 12-19-2006 04:56 PM

Cuz Blackguard left the game! :smileywink:

Akritar · 12-20-2006, 01:10 PM

I had no taken the time to play my brigand in some time, and barely ever read the game update notes. Been 70 a while with my old brig, and had lately gotten my alts rolling into the 40s and 50s... (more slots btw, I can't make any more toons can't delete anyone, kkthx). Yesterday, although my guild knew I was not playing my retired brigand, asked for a DPS to fight a dragon in Bonemire, and given the fact answers were lacking, I thought to myself : "Why not give the old brigand a spin?"

So there we were, ready for the fight, tank in position, healers at the ready, nukers awaiting my macroed spam to let them know it's ok to let it rip and do the nasty...

NOT!

I was punted out of the water and across a wall by an AOE??!!

Had to run back to the cliff, climb up the wall, locate the river, jumped down, all this done with the greatest of haste ... After all, my team needed me to rez the healer, which in turn would rez the rest of them...

Wondering what had happened, I promised the tank I would read and catch up on the forums a bit, to find out if this was a bug? Cripes, the incredible n00b that I am even bug reported the thing...

And here, i find this thread...

I spoke with a few people that really know the mechanincs of the game well, as far as who does what and what's needed when and where... I got slapped in the face there as well...

My beloved (albeit retired) brigand is nothing more than a medium DPS'er with the vaunted "Dispatch" utility these days... And apparently, I will be lucky to even land that attack in now, because I will more than likely die trying to get to the target, due to AOE damage... A small percentage (SOE is a bunch of idiots I think) might prevent that from happening, but so far they have seen most brigands die screaming and cursing faster than you can spell SOE is a bunch of idiots (athough I 'll admit to it feeling good, takes the agressivity out on a worthy recipient).

Used to be that when you wanted to pick a fight, a really good fight, you called a brigand in, to tip the scales. I felt proud of that. There were no guarantees the fight would go well, but one felt needed because of those special abilities, and that is what matters I think.

Maybe instead of given us the shaft in such a manner, not allowing the stacking of our powers and abilities could've been a sweel compromise?

1 raid only required one brigand imho. We're like the Texas Rangers of old in a way, one riot, one ranger...

I will miss my brigand now... But...

He harvests like a mad cow at least...

Up yours SOE (and that felt good also)

Message Edited by Akritar on 12-20-2006 03:15 AM

Valer · 12-20-2006, 01:31 PM

With the holiday season upon us, I decided to join in the giving spirit and send Lockeye a present from my local Best Buy.

This is "Amazing Television"

When the power is pressed it has a 25% to proc a picture for 5 seconds. Too short you say? Well there are people who don't have TVs at all, and there just fine, so I'm sure you'll adjust. Besides you don't need your old TV anymore, 5 seconds is long enough for you to get quick idea of what going on before it shuts off.

Not to mention I've been using it myself for a while, and I've been able to get that picture to show up pretty frequently. I know you've enjoyed your 50 inch plasma for the past 14 months, but its just no longer necessary. This TV will let you watch your shows just as well as the other one, in fact I'm doing you a favor. Less time watching TV = more time enjoying the world outside. Don't worry about the other TVs I gave everyone else, yours is a guaranteed proc.

If that's not reliable, I just don't know what is.

Message Edited by Valeros on 12-20-2006 12:34 AM

Rahatmattata · 12-20-2006, 04:15 PM

Veleros that post is awesome :smileyvery-happy:

Zagats · 12-20-2006, 06:48 PM

OMG that is too funny! I almost pee'd my pants!

Very very good comparison. Thank you for the laugh, Val.

ag · 12-20-2006, 07:05 PM

Best Television EVAR!I also like the comparison of roots being changed to a 25% chance of success."But Root isn't our class defining ability" is what people say -now-.Change it to 25% chance to root and I think you'll see the tone of such moral-high-ground responses change ever so slightly. SMILEY

FuzzBall · 12-20-2006, 07:39 PM

agra wrote:It boggles me that with all the technological solutions available to solicit input, these rediculously outdated forums are still used.

Like the abortion of a technological solution that they gave us for petitions??

FuzzBall · 12-20-2006, 07:42 PM

Valeros - f**king fantasic !!!/pat

Duster_68 · 12-20-2006, 07:53 PM

Heheheh, that was great. :smileyhappy:

ag · 12-20-2006, 08:16 PM

FuzzBall wrote:Like the abortion of a technological solution that they gave us for petitions??

Don't get me started. I used that interface once, and it was the first and last time. It looks like it was written by someones teenage kid in a weekend. Just brutal. It still amazes me that they have the time to keep eroding the fun from the game (like nerfing AR, treating carpets like horses, removing 20% of the useful Tinkering recipes with no warning) but stuff like fixing the petition system ,which even I would argue is vastly more important, despite my personal interest in getting AR fixed, remains broken.Who sets the priorities? /boggle

FuzzBall · 12-20-2006, 11:10 PM

agra wrote:Who sets the priorities? /boggle

A magic 8 ball i think

Crimson Dragon · 12-21-2006, 08:27 PM

FuzzBall wrote:
You assume that the devs care what we think... They dont. To us, we are nothing. We are the scum, they expect us to pander to their every need. They consider themselves above us in so many ways so why would they bother to grace us with their thoughtful insights? They couldnt care less if this thread was 1 page long or 1000 pages long. You wont get an answer from them, we are too small and little for them to waste their time

then i guess the only thing left for us to do is to make their real lives suffer for our gaming loss, and stop pitching in for their paychecks. then, when they're out of work and trying to get into other projects and keep getting rejected, they'll think back on us and curse us for ruining their lives. so delightfully evil.

Torran · 12-21-2006, 08:38 PM

FuzzBall wrote:
agra wrote:Who sets the priorities? /boggle
A magic 8 ball i think

On a positive magic 8 ball response, caster has a 25% chance to proc Developer Interest. Lasts for 5.0 seconds.

FuzzBall · 12-21-2006, 11:30 PM

Torran wrote:
FuzzBall wrote:
agra wrote:Who sets the priorities? /boggle
A magic 8 ball i think
On a positive magic 8 ball response, caster has a 25% chance to proc Developer Interest. Lasts for 5.0 seconds.

Lockeye nerfed it in under 5 seconds. Now last 0% change to proc Developer InterestDescription Now ReadsHas 1% chance to get the Developer Finger

Zagats · 12-22-2006, 02:01 AM

you misinterpreted that reading...

its now 99% chance to get the Developer Middle-Finger

Samulbrar · 12-22-2006, 03:31 AM

This thread has become unconstructive and thus is now locked.

12-19-2006, 08:46 PM	#422
FuzzBall Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 127	Valeros wrote: Honestly, if 18 pages isnt enough to warrant a dev response, what is? All we need is at least a confirmation that this is be looked at, or an alternative version is being considered. I'm sure theres someone who works there that actually plays there Brigand and shares the same views. Anything is better than silence. You assume that the devs care what we think... They dont. To us, we are nothing. We are the scum, they expect us to pander to their every need. They consider themselves above us in so many ways so why would they bother to grace us with their thoughtful insights? They couldnt care less if this thread was 1 page long or 1000 pages long. You wont get an answer from them, we are too small and little for them to waste their time __________________

12-19-2006, 08:48 PM	#423
FuzzBall Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 127	Zagats wrote: The only thing we can do now is start spamming their inboxes until they get the hint. Firstly, they wont read it and secondly, youll only get yourself banned from the forums, take it from me, the devs REALLY dont like critisism or suggestions __________________

12-19-2006, 11:35 PM	#425
DarkMirrax Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,238	everyone read the combat discussions thread btw ? __________________ Q - Named and epics get + to hit which makes avoidance tanking suck. A- Yes they do, and yes it does =========================== Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard Game Designer, EverQuest II ... Whats Amazing Reflexes ?? ....... ===========================

12-19-2006, 11:38 PM	#426
xPAGANx Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6	FuzzBall wrote: Valeros wrote: Honestly, if 18 pages isnt enough to warrant a dev response, what is? All we need is at least a confirmation that this is be looked at, or an alternative version is being considered. I'm sure theres someone who works there that actually plays there Brigand and shares the same views. Anything is better than silence. You assume that the devs care what we think... They dont. To us, we are nothing. We are the scum, they expect us to pander to their every need. They consider themselves above us in so many ways so why would they bother to grace us with their thoughtful insights? They couldnt care less if this thread was 1 page long or 1000 pages long. You wont get an answer from them, we are too small and little for them to waste their time You assume the devs don't care what you think. The fact of the matter is the devs saw a need for change. While it may not be the most ideal change, it was not done to make everyone hate their characters. It is one ability... Your class is not based on that one ability. If you think it is, you need to reexamine how to play your class. Everyone knows MMORPGS change over the course of time. If you cannot handle that and adapt, go play an unwavering game such as Final Fantasy XII. Put yourself in the devs shoes. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. What do you do?

12-19-2006, 11:40 PM	#427
InquisitorR Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 68	xPaganx wrote: If you cannot handle that and adapt, go play an unwavering game such as Final Fantasy XII.no way, that game changed WAY too much from the classic FF's...real time, members walk around with you...I CANT ADAPT! __________________

12-19-2006, 05:58 PM	#421
Zamla1770 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 43	Whats really sad is that it would take one minute to come in to this thread and say what soe intends for AR, is it said before? If so maybe a it needs to be said again, seems a lot of Brigands still dont know, me included. AR is a big topic for Brigands, the biggest atm, some sort of feedback would be most welcome.

12-19-2006, 09:13 PM	#424
tehh4x Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 51	they like our money:smileysad:

12-19-2006, 11:43 PM	#428
xPAGANx Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6	InquisitorRed wrote: xPaganx wrote: If you cannot handle that and adapt, go play an unwavering game such as Final Fantasy XII. no way, that game changed WAY too much from the classic FF's...real time, members walk around with you...I CANT ADAPT! What I mean is the game will always be the same as it was when you first took it out of the box.

12-20-2006, 12:02 AM	#429
Zagats Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 419	(I'm most fond of FF2) At least I'd have the peace of mind to know that Rydia can still summon Bahamut, and Edge can still throw spoon at Zerumus to cause 9999 damage... you'll never stop the spoon!!!! As for this quote : Put yourself in the devs shoes. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. What do you do? Here's what I do: 1 - evaluate the situation... 100% AoE immunity is overpowered? Hrm.. ok. Agreed. It needs a change. 2- make a SUITABLE change. Ability changed to a push-to-use hotkey. Makes caster Immune to AoE for 10 secs, recast time 60 seconds. Done. Ability not overpowered, but useful. It's really not hard to come up with GOOD changes, you just have to understand what's going on. Message Edited by Zagats on 12-19-2006 11:02 AM __________________ 80 Defiler - Lawlz/ 80 Alchy/ Master Tink/ 189AA aka 80 Brig - Brekon/ 80 Jeweler/ Master Tink/ 198 AA Retired!!! 80 Coercer - Freeqq/ Master Tink/ 168 AA 80 Guard - Zomg/ Master Muter/ 192 AA 80 Zerk - Zomg (R.I.P) 80 Zerk - Barn/ 80 Provi/ 162 AA 80 Dirge - Micetro/ 165AA 80 Swash - Erno/ 141 AA 80 Templar - Shortey/ 75 Alchy/ 151 AA 80 Inquis - Ubet (R.I.P) 80 Templar - Ubet (R.I.P) 80 Wiz - Brnd/ 145AA 72Conjy - Zzzz 71 Assasin - Scoole 70 Swash - Bladeflash ... I play too much.

12-20-2006, 12:02 AM	#430
FuzzBall Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 127	xPAGANx wrote: FuzzBall wrote: Valeros wrote: Honestly, if 18 pages isnt enough to warrant a dev response, what is? All we need is at least a confirmation that this is be looked at, or an alternative version is being considered. I'm sure theres someone who works there that actually plays there Brigand and shares the same views. Anything is better than silence. You assume that the devs care what we think... They dont. To us, we are nothing. We are the scum, they expect us to pander to their every need. They consider themselves above us in so many ways so why would they bother to grace us with their thoughtful insights? They couldnt care less if this thread was 1 page long or 1000 pages long. You wont get an answer from them, we are too small and little for them to waste their time You assume the devs don't care what you think. The fact of the matter is the devs saw a need for change. While it may not be the most ideal change, it was not done to make everyone hate their characters. It is one ability... Your class is not based on that one ability. If you think it is, you need to reexamine how to play your class. Everyone knows MMORPGS change over the course of time. If you cannot handle that and adapt, go play an unwavering game such as Final Fantasy XII. Put yourself in the devs shoes. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. What do you do? Well, firstly, I wouldnt simply ignore the playerbase by giving them the finger by ignoring them, as Lockeye doesthen I would make sure that I dont place changes on servers without any of them being on beta / test so that I can weight on the feedback, instead of just putting nerfs live without testing, as Lockeye does.then I would ask for feedback from the playerbase instead of giving them the finger by ignoring them, as Lockeye doesthen I would give my thoughts and ideas about the issues facing the playerbase instead of giving them the finger by ignoring them, as Lockeye doesand finally, I would state the intention of my position of where things currently stand and will progress intead of giving the playerbase the finger by ignoring them, as Lockeye does.Lockeye may see himself above us, sure, he doesnt have to post squat in here but by doing so, he makes himself enemy #1. Message Edited by FuzzBall on 12-19-2006 01:04 PM __________________

12-20-2006, 12:30 AM	#431
DarkMirrax Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,238	lockeye is one dev he isnt wholy resposible for the changes and we cant blame him for it , doing so will just mean he ignore the thead longer .. __________________ Q - Named and epics get + to hit which makes avoidance tanking suck. A- Yes they do, and yes it does =========================== Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard Game Designer, EverQuest II ... Whats Amazing Reflexes ?? ....... ===========================

12-20-2006, 03:36 AM	#432
FuzzBall Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 127	As hes the one primarily responsible for spells and achievements, as he has in his sig, Im guessing hes a good start.As for ignoring it longer? When was the last time he posted in teh brig forums? It was Oct 2005 in the warden forums... __________________

12-20-2006, 04:55 AM	#433
ag General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 851	"Put yourself in the devs shoes. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. What do you do?"Given the nature of the AR change, this is how I would have handled it:The dev solicits Beta Tester input, for one week, in a sub-class thread that is pruned/collated daily so all the ideas are put into one post. All non-idea posts are deleted out of the thread. Forum moderators do all this work.Then at the end of that week, the dev addresses each idea in turn explaining clearly and concisely why it will or will not be considered.The final thread has two posts by the developer, (the ideas, and the comments) and is locked. Then the dev goes to the development environment and codes the solution, pushes it to test (or Beta) for customer feedback, and iterates if the results are unsatisfactory.---There's an infinite number of better ways to solicit input rather than the way it is now, which is not at all. Players are always angry because we're always reacting. Even voting buttons in game so players of ONLY that sub-class of a certain level range (that the change would affect, in this case 52-70) could make a choice would be better. But apparently SOE can't/won't do that, for whatever reason.It boggles me that with all the technological solutions available to solicit input, these rediculously outdated forums are still used.Voting buttons with limited options are a great way to get player feedback in Beta, Test, and at the players choice, in Production/Live. But SOE doesn't do that. Why not? Good question. Not a priority, I guess.So the unsolicited, no-warning, extremely un-fun changes keep coming, and the vocal minority keeps flailing. Apparently this is "working as intended".Remember, it was evidently FINE for FOURTEEN MONTHS. Over a year, for those of you that have difficulty counting. Why was it fine for 14 months, and suddenly it was not fine? Anyone care to answer that?EDIT: typo! Message Edited by agra on 12-19-2006 04:56 PM __________________ 70 Brigand, 70 Coercer, 60 Bruiser, 50 Inquisitor 70 Alchemist, 70 Armorer, 70 Carpenter, 70 Provisioner, 40 Jeweler, 350 Tinkerer

12-20-2006, 05:08 AM	#434
NemaLVey Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 154	agra wrote: "Put yourself in the devs shoes. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. What do you do?" Given the nature of the AR change, this is how I would have handled it: The dev solicits Beta Tester input, for one week, in a sub-class thread that is pruned/collated daily so all the ideas are put into one post. All non-idea posts are deleted out of the thread. Forum moderators do all this work. Then at the end of that week, the dev addresses each idea in turn explaining clearly and concisely why it will or will not be considered. The final thread has two posts by the developer, (the ideas, and the comments) and is locked. Then the dev goes to the development environment and codes the solution, pushes it to test (or Beta) for customer feedback, and iterates if the results are unsatisfactory. --- There's an infinite number of better ways to solicit input rather than the way it is now, which is not at all. Players are always angry because we're always reacting. Even voting buttons in game so players of ONLY that sub-class of a certain level range (that the change would affect, in this case 52-70) could make a choice would be better. But apparently SOE can't/won't do that, for whatever reason. It boggles me that with all the technological solutions available to solicit input, these rediculously outdated forums are still used. Voting buttons with limited options are a great way to get player feedback in Beta, Test, and at the players choice, in Production/Live. But SOE doesn't do that. Why not? Good question. Not a priority, I guess. So the unsolicited, no-warning, extremely un-fun changes keep coming, and the vocal minority keeps flailing. Apparently this is "working as intended". Remember, it was evidently FINE for FOURTEEN MONTHS. Over a year, for those of you that have difficulty counting. Why was it fine for 14 months, and suddenly it was not fine? Anyone care to answer that? EDIT: typo! Message Edited by agra on 12-19-2006 04:56 PM Cuz Blackguard left the game! :smileywink:

12-20-2006, 01:10 PM	#435
Akritar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	I had no taken the time to play my brigand in some time, and barely ever read the game update notes. Been 70 a while with my old brig, and had lately gotten my alts rolling into the 40s and 50s... (more slots btw, I can't make any more toons can't delete anyone, kkthx). Yesterday, although my guild knew I was not playing my retired brigand, asked for a DPS to fight a dragon in Bonemire, and given the fact answers were lacking, I thought to myself : "Why not give the old brigand a spin?" So there we were, ready for the fight, tank in position, healers at the ready, nukers awaiting my macroed spam to let them know it's ok to let it rip and do the nasty... NOT! I was punted out of the water and across a wall by an AOE??!! Had to run back to the cliff, climb up the wall, locate the river, jumped down, all this done with the greatest of haste ... After all, my team needed me to rez the healer, which in turn would rez the rest of them... Wondering what had happened, I promised the tank I would read and catch up on the forums a bit, to find out if this was a bug? Cripes, the incredible n00b that I am even bug reported the thing... And here, i find this thread... I spoke with a few people that really know the mechanincs of the game well, as far as who does what and what's needed when and where... I got slapped in the face there as well... My beloved (albeit retired) brigand is nothing more than a medium DPS'er with the vaunted "Dispatch" utility these days... And apparently, I will be lucky to even land that attack in now, because I will more than likely die trying to get to the target, due to AOE damage... A small percentage (SOE is a bunch of idiots I think) might prevent that from happening, but so far they have seen most brigands die screaming and cursing faster than you can spell SOE is a bunch of idiots (athough I 'll admit to it feeling good, takes the agressivity out on a worthy recipient). Used to be that when you wanted to pick a fight, a really good fight, you called a brigand in, to tip the scales. I felt proud of that. There were no guarantees the fight would go well, but one felt needed because of those special abilities, and that is what matters I think. Maybe instead of given us the shaft in such a manner, not allowing the stacking of our powers and abilities could've been a sweel compromise? 1 raid only required one brigand imho. We're like the Texas Rangers of old in a way, one riot, one ranger... I will miss my brigand now... But... He harvests like a mad cow at least... Up yours SOE (and that felt good also) Message Edited by Akritar on 12-20-2006 03:15 AM __________________ Thingies - Level 70 Brigand / 38 Weapons

12-20-2006, 01:31 PM	#436
Valer General Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 34	With the holiday season upon us, I decided to join in the giving spirit and send Lockeye a present from my local Best Buy. This is "Amazing Television" When the power is pressed it has a 25% to proc a picture for 5 seconds. Too short you say? Well there are people who don't have TVs at all, and there just fine, so I'm sure you'll adjust. Besides you don't need your old TV anymore, 5 seconds is long enough for you to get quick idea of what going on before it shuts off. Not to mention I've been using it myself for a while, and I've been able to get that picture to show up pretty frequently. I know you've enjoyed your 50 inch plasma for the past 14 months, but its just no longer necessary. This TV will let you watch your shows just as well as the other one, in fact I'm doing you a favor. Less time watching TV = more time enjoying the world outside. Don't worry about the other TVs I gave everyone else, yours is a guaranteed proc. If that's not reliable, I just don't know what is. Message Edited by Valeros on 12-20-2006 12:34 AM

12-20-2006, 04:15 PM	#437
Rahatmattata Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,232	Veleros that post is awesome :smileyvery-happy: __________________ A Cure For Cancer

12-20-2006, 06:48 PM	#438
Zagats Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 419	OMG that is too funny! I almost pee'd my pants! Very very good comparison. Thank you for the laugh, Val. __________________ 80 Defiler - Lawlz/ 80 Alchy/ Master Tink/ 189AA aka 80 Brig - Brekon/ 80 Jeweler/ Master Tink/ 198 AA Retired!!! 80 Coercer - Freeqq/ Master Tink/ 168 AA 80 Guard - Zomg/ Master Muter/ 192 AA 80 Zerk - Zomg (R.I.P) 80 Zerk - Barn/ 80 Provi/ 162 AA 80 Dirge - Micetro/ 165AA 80 Swash - Erno/ 141 AA 80 Templar - Shortey/ 75 Alchy/ 151 AA 80 Inquis - Ubet (R.I.P) 80 Templar - Ubet (R.I.P) 80 Wiz - Brnd/ 145AA 72Conjy - Zzzz 71 Assasin - Scoole 70 Swash - Bladeflash ... I play too much.

12-20-2006, 07:05 PM	#439
ag General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 851	Best Television EVAR!I also like the comparison of roots being changed to a 25% chance of success."But Root isn't our class defining ability" is what people say -now-.Change it to 25% chance to root and I think you'll see the tone of such moral-high-ground responses change ever so slightly. __________________ 70 Brigand, 70 Coercer, 60 Bruiser, 50 Inquisitor 70 Alchemist, 70 Armorer, 70 Carpenter, 70 Provisioner, 40 Jeweler, 350 Tinkerer

12-20-2006, 07:39 PM	#440
FuzzBall Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 127	agra wrote:It boggles me that with all the technological solutions available to solicit input, these rediculously outdated forums are still used. Like the abortion of a technological solution that they gave us for petitions?? __________________

12-20-2006, 07:42 PM	#441
FuzzBall Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 127	Valeros - f**king fantasic !!!/pat __________________

12-20-2006, 07:53 PM	#442
Duster_68 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 26	Heheheh, that was great. :smileyhappy: __________________ Captain Purvis Thorne - Half-Elf Brigand Phoenix Elite Najena

12-20-2006, 08:16 PM	#443
ag General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 851	FuzzBall wrote:Like the abortion of a technological solution that they gave us for petitions?? Don't get me started. I used that interface once, and it was the first and last time. It looks like it was written by someones teenage kid in a weekend. Just brutal. It still amazes me that they have the time to keep eroding the fun from the game (like nerfing AR, treating carpets like horses, removing 20% of the useful Tinkering recipes with no warning) but stuff like fixing the petition system ,which even I would argue is vastly more important, despite my personal interest in getting AR fixed, remains broken.Who sets the priorities? /boggle __________________ 70 Brigand, 70 Coercer, 60 Bruiser, 50 Inquisitor 70 Alchemist, 70 Armorer, 70 Carpenter, 70 Provisioner, 40 Jeweler, 350 Tinkerer

12-20-2006, 11:10 PM	#444
FuzzBall Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 127	agra wrote:Who sets the priorities? /boggle A magic 8 ball i think __________________

12-21-2006, 08:27 PM	#445
Crimson Dragon Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 913	FuzzBall wrote: You assume that the devs care what we think... They dont. To us, we are nothing. We are the scum, they expect us to pander to their every need. They consider themselves above us in so many ways so why would they bother to grace us with their thoughtful insights? They couldnt care less if this thread was 1 page long or 1000 pages long. You wont get an answer from them, we are too small and little for them to waste their time then i guess the only thing left for us to do is to make their real lives suffer for our gaming loss, and stop pitching in for their paychecks. then, when they're out of work and trying to get into other projects and keep getting rejected, they'll think back on us and curse us for ruining their lives. so delightfully evil. __________________ The best way to predict the future is to create it.

12-21-2006, 08:38 PM	#446
Torran Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7	FuzzBall wrote: agra wrote:Who sets the priorities? /boggle A magic 8 ball i think On a positive magic 8 ball response, caster has a 25% chance to proc Developer Interest. Lasts for 5.0 seconds.

12-21-2006, 11:30 PM	#447
FuzzBall Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 127	Torran wrote: FuzzBall wrote: agra wrote:Who sets the priorities? /boggle A magic 8 ball i think On a positive magic 8 ball response, caster has a 25% chance to proc Developer Interest. Lasts for 5.0 seconds. Lockeye nerfed it in under 5 seconds. Now last 0% change to proc Developer InterestDescription Now ReadsHas 1% chance to get the Developer Finger __________________

12-22-2006, 02:01 AM	#448
Zagats Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 419	you misinterpreted that reading... its now 99% chance to get the Developer Middle-Finger __________________ 80 Defiler - Lawlz/ 80 Alchy/ Master Tink/ 189AA aka 80 Brig - Brekon/ 80 Jeweler/ Master Tink/ 198 AA Retired!!! 80 Coercer - Freeqq/ Master Tink/ 168 AA 80 Guard - Zomg/ Master Muter/ 192 AA 80 Zerk - Zomg (R.I.P) 80 Zerk - Barn/ 80 Provi/ 162 AA 80 Dirge - Micetro/ 165AA 80 Swash - Erno/ 141 AA 80 Templar - Shortey/ 75 Alchy/ 151 AA 80 Inquis - Ubet (R.I.P) 80 Templar - Ubet (R.I.P) 80 Wiz - Brnd/ 145AA 72Conjy - Zzzz 71 Assasin - Scoole 70 Swash - Bladeflash ... I play too much.

12-22-2006, 03:31 AM	#449
Samulbrar Volunteer Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 231	This thread has become unconstructive and thus is now locked. __________________ It's always September somewhere on the 'net.