EQII Extended - Feedback and Discussion Thread

[judelilu]

Could not find an apporiate place to post about eq2 free to play, so putting it here hopefully it will find its way home.

Just finished reading smoke jumpers letter for the FREE to play changes that are coming.  The number one thing thats been overlooked in EQ, EQ2 and other games in soe line is Us OLDTIMERS!!

If you calculate how much I have spent realworld cash for each expantion for eq, and eq2 , planet side and yes even starwars, Always hoping for a better play experence and a few of the nice weps ect zones and such, over the years and even buying a complet new set of games just to get a group rate has resulted in me owning 7 yes 7 accounts at present the number and games vary some are just eq others eq2&eq +planet side. At one point i left all sony online just because I was so angry because joe madge could go to a store buy a 9 dollar eq game log in and get all soe games for 9 bucks or buy 1 expantion for 39 dollars and be complet in his play , But me How much did I pay for eq2 collectors edition when it came out in ,when 2003? Now what i can spend more cash to get the new races and items for 3.00 dolars in market place I get realy nice pets and house items.

Its a slam in the face for us old timers!! Careful here some of us do get insulted.

Yes it reads well a lot of good changes and may even get me to play more , But I ant gona put my hand in the fire any more. I think IF this was addressed you may get many more returning players than you have especiall if it is put out there for some one who has moved on to the other game to see (a little more TV advertising would help the others do), Consider this anyone with account 10 years old gets the new race. or even the last expantion free to there account, bonus bucks station cash based on years of play?

REMEMBER WE DO hAVE FEELINGS AND EMOTIONS iT LOOKS LIKE THIS HAS BEEN OVER LOOKED!!

[Nynaeve]

TV advertising is a thing of the past. I dont ever turn it on. I watch news on youtube, selected channels, and read my favorite online news.

Guess what, my Commodore 64 computer cost 750€ 25 years ago, not you can get one for 50€. Do I regret paying that much? no, that was the price back then and I had fun - same with you and buying EQ2 games.

You simply can't expect anybody would pay the full price of 7+ expansions all at once in order to try out an MMO. A new customer didn't see the game grow and the value of each expansions. He also doesnt get to play each expansion as fully as a long time customer did anyway. He wants to level up and would look a bit wondered if he had to pay $40 to enter Kelethin for example (which is only 1 expansion).F2P is a new marketing tool which seems to work quite good when done right.

[Pewtriid]

Nynaeve wrote:

TV advertising is a thing of the past. I dont ever turn it on. I watch news on youtube, selected channels, and read my favorite online news.

Guess what, my Commodore 64 computer cost 750€ 25 years ago, not you can get one for 50€. Do I regret paying that much? no, that was the price back then and I had fun - same with you and buying EQ2 games.

You simply can't expect anybody would pay the full price of 7+ expansions all at once in order to try out an MMO. A new customer didn't see the game grow and the value of each expansions. He also doesnt get to play each expansion as fully as a long time customer did anyway. He wants to level up and would look a bit wondered if he had to pay $40 to enter Kelethin for example (which is only 1 expansion).F2P is a new marketing tool which seems to work quite good when done right.

If tv adverts are a thing of the past, why is it so popular for things like, I don't know, gaming?   Just because YOU don't watch it means absolutely nothing.   MILLIONS of people DO watch tv, and advertising there is VERY effective.   Don't think it is?  Look at the numbers of Bethesda Softwerks Skyrim sales...Last I checked, it was in the 3.5 MILLION sold units (not counting digital downloads).  I guess that they shouldn't have had those tv spots going, since it's a thing of the past, right?

Now, if I'm not mistaken, you're saying that your C64 cost 750 Euros 25 years ago, right?  Uh, no it didn't....the Euro didn't exist back then.  You have been telling so many other people to, in a nutshell, get their facts straight, so tell the truth here, please.   And you aren't even addressing the concerns of the poster you quoted.  The concerns are "I paid out my butt for years, and you are ignoring me so that you can appease and pander to the F2P folks.  Where's the love for vets?" 

As I have noticed, all your posts are the same, basicly.  I don't begrudge you being a loud fan of the changes to the game.  To each his own.  I *DO* begrudge your condescending attitude towards anyone with an opinion differening from yours.

And F2P isn't really a marketing tool.  Marketing is getting people to know about, and hopefully want, your product.  F2P is not that..it is a thinnly veiled method of the "bait and switch" method where you promise one thing, but it turns out to be another.   Maybe it works (that hasn't been proven...and if it has, show the SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH to back it up), but you keep adding "if it's done right".....and it hasn't been so far as eq2 is concerned.  HOWEVER, before this change, you were saying how it wasn't done right, now you seen to have shanged your tune...why?   Could it be because you got what you WHINED for?  That YOU get things YOUR way?  Well, guess what...that's what you are saying others are doing.

As soon as the announcement the other day, those that have supported this game, many from beta, lost their voice on this forum.   They are not listened to.  Their concerns not even acknowledged.  But they are supposed to like it.   SOO many have been driven away in just the last few days, how will F2P support the game?  It can't.  The very people that have cancelled accounts are the ones that must be relied on to make it work.   I really can't see eq2 surviving much longer. 

[Nynaeve]

Pewtriid wrote:

 Look at the numbers of Bethesda Softwerks Skyrim sales...Last I checked, it was in the 3.5 MILLION sold units

you're saying that your C64 cost 750 Euros 25 years ago, right?  Uh, no it didn't....the Euro didn't exist back then. You have been telling so many other people to, in a nutshell, get their facts straight, so tell the truth here, please. 

  And you aren't even addressing the concerns of the poster you quoted.  The concerns are "I paid out my butt for years, and you are ignoring me so that you can appease and pander to the F2P folks.  Where's the love for vets?" 

HOWEVER, before this change, you were saying how it wasn't done right, now you seen to have shanged your tune...why?   Could it be because you got what you WHINED for?  That YOU get things YOUR way?  Well, guess what...that's what you are saying others are doing.

As soon as the announcement the other day, those that have supported this game, many from beta, lost their voice on this forum.I really can't see eq2 surviving much longer. 

Of course the Euro did not exist back then. But since I doubt anybody here understands the value of 10.000 Austrian Schillings of 1985 I did the conversion of the Schilling into Euro (1€ ~ 13,7 ATS).

The Elder Scrolls is a hugely popular Series. I dont know how their TV ads boosted their sales, but you mention 3.5 mio sold copies - this is what I expect from that game even without TV ads. So they may not really have boosted that much. TV ads are also incredibly expensive usually, may not be worth it.

Also, I addressed your concern that you "paid your bvtt" for years in an allegory.I also paid "my bvtt" for my C64 computer. If I tried to sell it to anyone now for the same price people would believe me mad. It just doesn't work that way.

Your "reward" for buying those games and expansions were the last 7 years that you could spend playing them PLUS the veteran rewards that you got like the nice Mistmoore Craig Estate.To demand that new players now pay the same instantly that you paid and experienced over the last 7 years is frankly unrealistic.

You're right - I was not happy with EQ2X pricing BEFORE the recent announcements, because they had to pay the same $15 but did get less (races). Now the recent changes are putting the EQ2 f2p model into the right track, and I am happily looking forward to play on populated servers for a reasonable price.

As for the rage quitters that you mentioned. Such exist in every game, although the EQ2 people seem to be a special kind of its own. It's of course sad to see people quit, but it wont destroy the game at all because the game is on a great track now, and I bet that many vocal quitter will also be back later - after all they can now take a look around without paying a dime.

[Pewtriid]

Nynaeve wrote:

Pewtriid wrote:

 Look at the numbers of Bethesda Softwerks Skyrim sales...Last I checked, it was in the 3.5 MILLION sold units

you're saying that your C64 cost 750 Euros 25 years ago, right?  Uh, no it didn't....the Euro didn't exist back then. You have been telling so many other people to, in a nutshell, get their facts straight, so tell the truth here, please. 

  And you aren't even addressing the concerns of the poster you quoted.  The concerns are "I paid out my butt for years, and you are ignoring me so that you can appease and pander to the F2P folks.  Where's the love for vets?" 

HOWEVER, before this change, you were saying how it wasn't done right, now you seen to have shanged your tune...why?   Could it be because you got what you WHINED for?  That YOU get things YOUR way?  Well, guess what...that's what you are saying others are doing.

As soon as the announcement the other day, those that have supported this game, many from beta, lost their voice on this forum.I really can't see eq2 surviving much longer. 

Of course the Euro did not exist back then. But since I doubt anybody here understands the value of 10.000 Austrian Schillings of 1985 I did the conversion of the Schilling into Euro (1€ ~ 13,7 ATS).

The Elder Scrolls is a hugely popular Series. I dont know how their TV ads boosted their sales, but you mention 3.5 mio sold copies - this is what I expect from that game even without TV ads. So they may not really have boosted that much. TV ads are also incredibly expensive usually, may not be worth it.

Also, I addressed your concern that you "paid your bvtt" for years in an allegory.I also paid "my bvtt" for my C64 computer. If I tried to sell it to anyone now for the same price people would believe me mad. It just doesn't work that way.

Your "reward" for buying those games and expansions were the last 7 years that you could spend playing them PLUS the veteran rewards that you got like the nice Mistmoore Craig Estate.To demand that new players now pay the same instantly that you paid and experienced over the last 7 years is frankly unrealistic.

You're right - I was not happy with EQ2X pricing BEFORE the recent announcements, because they had to pay the same $15 but did get less (races). Now the recent changes are putting the EQ2 f2p model into the right track, and I am happily looking forward to play on populated servers for a reasonable price.

As for the rage quitters that you mentioned. Such exist in every game, although the EQ2 people seem to be a special kind of its own. It's of course sad to see people quit, but it wont destroy the game at all because the game is on a great track now, and I bet that many vocal quitter will also be back later - after all they can now take a look around without paying a dime.

First, I did not, at any time, say that F2P should pay INSTANTLY what i have paid over the years...that was someone else.

Second, when doing a conversion in "yesteryear" prices to modern, especially if the currency changes, one must note that prices are adjusted for those reasons, you did not...hence my pointing it out.

Third, you assume that advertising did not help   Apparently, you are forgetting that WoW has been VERY successfull in that regard, and that SOE games have not.  Which company puts tv ads on?  Those that are selling lots of copies.  This is a point that could be argued forever, but until REAL numbers are released, one can only judge the effectiveness on what one observes.  Had the "word of mouth" method that this game depends on been as effective as you seem to suggest, the numbers would support that.  They don't.  Nor do you, or I, or ANYONE not employed by SOE actually know how many extended players are/were long term or simply turn over. 

Fourth, ALL of your arguments before were about pricing.  NOW, they are pretty much against anyone else that may feel that they are being shortchanged.  REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY ARE.  "Back then", many felt about your arguments as you feel about theirs now.  Yet THEY are the ones in the wrong...or so it seems from what you (and others, LOTS of others) have said.

As for the rage quiters, A few will MAYBE be  back to look around.  Some may even go back to say "HI" to old friends, or to see if they're still in the game.  MOST won't.  I would wager (and this is another thing that is pure conjecture on BOTH sides of the argument) that the number that returns will not be more than 10% of those that left, not to mention that they won't bring back the same number of accounts that left or soon leave.  I also think that the number of "new" paying subs will not match the number that are gone.  (By new, I mean NEW...not someone that was already paying a sub for either service.  After all, the ACTUAL new accounts are what all this is supposed to be about.)  

One more thing before I submit this.  Quite a few people that have left didn't really "ragequit".  They did as I have, and voted with their wallets.  LONG before the (shall we call it merger?) announcement, they, and I, had said that if it happens (f2p), we would leave.  When it happened, we left.  If I were you, I would not count on any of them coming back, ever.  No matter how you or anyone else feels, some of us are against the entire "free to play" thing...in any form.  Now, I can only speak for myself, and point out what others have said, but since I have other ways to contact the friends I made in my time in Norrath, there is no need for me to try it again, even to say hello.  I'm sure others are the same.

I'm going to leave this thread now, and the bickering may resume   I will come back to see what, if any, reply you may have posted.  Don't know if I'll bother to even log in to the forums if I do.  I just don't want to sidetrack the thread or argue (discuss) something that in the end will end as it starts...you have your opinion, I have mine.  I feel it better to end it on a non-adversarial note rather than huffing and puffing arguments that go nowhere.

I do, whether you or anyone else believe it, wish you well.  The game made a turn I don't agree with, and I think will ultimately end in disaster.  You think otherwise.   Let's leave it at that (at least between you and I), and say farewell.  Happy adventuring, and good luck.

---------------

Actually, if the C64 was in good shape and working, there are people that are snatching them up, sometimes at prices MUCH higher than what they origianlly went for.  Collectors will pay top dollar for them.  Just saying.

And this is just curiosity...Did Aus get the schilling from Britain back in the days it was still a territory of them?  And if so, did they get OTHER currencies from them, or just stick with the schilliing?

[Nynaeve]

WOW wasn't successful cause of TV ads. Blizzard already had a huge fan-base who would buy ANYTHING that came out of that house after Warcraft and Diablo. If I remember correctly they also had the advantage of starting their game just a few weeks after EQ2 which which made the EQ2 hype move over to WoW for sure.

Also Wow was able to run on almost any PC with its much lower demands. EQ2 still needs a top PC in 2011 to run well due to its architecture (whole world is made up from 3d-polygons instead of eg. faster Fractal landscape like in Lotro).

Advertising EQ2 would be great of course and they'll most probably do it again, but TV is the wrong place I think. I wouldn't even know which channel could hit a decent target audience. I'd recommend ads on gamespy, IGN, Gamespot or such sites, but I dont know how expensive those are, probably not so cheap either.

Vets have no reason to feel shortchanged - they got to play the game years ahead. NOW the price of the game drops for everybody.  Would you rather not have played EQ2 the last years and start now? I guess not, right? SOE does the right thing to get new players try out and possibly subscribe to the game.

Austrian Schilling doesnt have anything to do with Britain afaik, except maybe the name of the currency's origin. It was simply the new currency that replace the Monarchy's Krone after WW1. The price I mentioned for the C64 also includes the 1541 Floppy drive.

[ratbast]

Nynaeve wrote:

WOW wasn't successful cause of TV ads. Blizzard already had a huge fan-base who would buy ANYTHING that came out of that house after Warcraft and Diablo. If I remember correctly they also had the advantage of starting their game just a few weeks after EQ2 which which made the EQ2 hype move over to WoW for sure.

Also Wow was able to run on almost any PC with its much lower demands. EQ2 still needs a top PC in 2011 to run well due to its architecture (whole world is made up from 3d-polygons instead of eg. faster Fractal landscape like in Lotro).

Advertising EQ2 would be great of course and they'll most probably do it again, but TV is the wrong place I think. I wouldn't even know which channel could hit a decent target audience. I'd recommend ads on gamespy, IGN, Gamespot or such sites, but I dont know how expensive those are, probably not so cheap either.

Vets have no reason to feel shortchanged - they got to play the game years ahead. NOW the price of the game drops for everybody.  Would you rather not have played EQ2 the last years and start now? I guess not, right? SOE does the right thing to get new players try out and possibly subscribe to the game.

Austrian Schilling doesnt have anything to do with Britain afaik, except maybe the name of the currency's origin. It was simply the new currency that replace the Monarchy's Krone after WW1. The price I mentioned for the C64 also includes the 1541 Floppy drive.

I object to the logic that vets received the value of their purchased expansions thru mechanism of 'total time played'. If you want to apologize for newbies getting all expacs free (except DoV and AoD) use a different arguement.

The subscription is for time played.

I'm sick of ppl using horrible logic to justify the expansion white-wash. Giving everyone all content up to sentinel's fate is SOE's decision. IMO, they dont have authority to strip vets accounts of playable races, even if sub expires. The content and unlocks were definitely marketed as features and selling points. The monthly subscription was only a selling point (and for a single month only) for new accounts.

Please stop pretending the value purchased from expansions was the memories and time played. Memories and time played are the value from paying the sub.

[Nynaeve]

ratbastard wrote:

I object to the logic that vets received the value of their purchased expansions thru mechanism of 'total time played'. If you want to apologize for newbies getting all expacs free (except DoV and AoD) use a different arguement.

The subscription is for time played.

I'm sick of ppl using horrible logic to justify the expansion white-wash. Giving everyone all content up to sentinel's fate is SOE's decision. IMO, they dont have authority to strip vets accounts of playable races, even if sub expires. The content and unlocks were definitely marketed as features and selling points. The monthly subscription was only a selling point (and for a single month only) for new accounts.

Please stop pretending the value purchased from expansions was the memories and time played. Memories and time played are the value from paying the sub.

1.) Get over it and stop being JEALOUS that new players get several expansion "for free". You think I should start blaming eg. INTEL because they're now selling Processors that are 10000 times as powerful as my old '386 but cost the same? Heck no. Everybody get's the same deal, and that deal simply wasn't available 7 years ago. GET OVER IT.

2.) Veterans already get VETERAN REWARDS - and rest assured that new players are very jealous about them as well.You should be happy to be a Veteran in EQ2, cause in other games like Lotro you DONT GET ANYTHING to say "thank you" even if you played since Day1.

3.) You get to keep all your races anyway when you continue paying a subscription. You are not worse off but better now since you can log in even when your sub has run out WHICH YOU NEVER COULD BEFORE.

[SOE-Brasse]

With today's update, EQII Extended is now part of EverQuest II.

Thank you to all who posted to this epic thread. It's been over a year since we introduced EQIIX and a long road for us all. Time to bring this thread to a gentle close, as we'll all be talking about ongoing LIVE play on our new path!

;-)#

Brasse