Amazing Reflexes - the nerf is in... - Page 12

Land · 11-23-2006, 01:16 PM

Hello Dev s what’s up? What your vision with the brigant class? Is there a vision? Is there everything you want to do? Do you ever listen to our concern?

You nerfed amazing reflexes to worthless in named epic encounter, so we have to joust and bought resist gear to drop stat gear. We still can debuff the encounter but not so effective like before. That drop down our dps on this kind of mobs to 60-80%.

On trash mobs and in groups we are working fine. Nerved a little bit, but fine. Solo -I don’t want to talk about.

If there any plan, idea or something else to change amazing reflexes to something useful (not only to safe healer’s power on trash mobs with AE) or give us an ability to boost our dps in epic fights? I thought our CAs was designed under the assumption that we can stay at the mob all the time- and that was the reason for bring AR in the game -I am wrong?

Is everything working like intend with our dps in the future? If I look at our AA, the most of them is just to make our abilities effective like they were before EoF came out. I don’t see really a damage boost like other ‘dps’ classes have.

So I only can reply what is your vision now?

And please don’t say your vision is that that the brigand stay at the mob spam CAs and pray to his god (btw Bristlebane is not in yet) that AR will proc and die 30% of the time (AR Master1 & 5 AA in enhance AR).

Message Edited by Landra on 11-23-2006 12:22 AM

Andai · 11-23-2006, 03:18 PM

Ventureinoz wrote:

I think the devs have gone about this the wrong way, I think this should work in reverse.

Amazing Reflexes adept 1

Grants the brigand immunity to AOE (except direct)
Casts Lost Reflexes if caster takes damage (Lost Reflexes lasts 30 seconds)
Has a 32% chance to cast Lowered Reflexes on a successful cobat art (Lowered Reflexes lasts 10 seconds)
Upgrades to the spell decrease the % chance of procing Lowered Reflexes.

This way the more you spam your CA's the more chance you have of losing your immunity, the brigand can then choose to moderate his CA use or continue to go all out and suffer the consequences.

Im sure the percentages could use some work but for example it could be.

Master 1 12%
Adept 3 22%
Adept 1 32%

I think this is the best change suggestion i've seen since the nerf rumours started. This makes a lot of sense to me and imho would make the current version of AR go from "next to useless" to "balanced". Very good suggestion.

mikemcmodmi · 11-23-2006, 11:41 PM

I think the worst part about the amazing reflexes nurf is having to put on so much resist gear to survive an aoe. I know other melee classes have to do the same but common, this is ridiculous.

I end up putting resist gear in every jewellery slot I can to not get one shotted in aoes. So what's the point in gearing up to take down harder mobs or adornments? There is no point, unless you adorn your resist gear. You'll have to switch out every fabled you have to not get one shotted by aoes. Really the only way we can gear up is by getting better armor or a weapon. Everything else doesn't make a difference.

I think the resist gear change was put in for pvp.... but man is it messing up pve raiding. You need 9k resists or so to mitigate anything from an aoe.

ag · 11-24-2006, 12:26 AM

The irony is that AR was removed from Brigands (and given to several other sub-classes in a variety of forms) because the AE's in EoF were being reduced so that players wouldn't be one-shotted.So the justification for changing AR isn't valid, and the original justification to have AR in the first place (nasty AE's preventing the Brigand from debuffing the raid target) is even more valid than it was prior to EoF. Gotta love that.Here's the quote:

Changes within the spells and abilities of the game are always done for a specific reason. The original intent for Amazing Reflexes was to give some survivability to brigands who needed to get close to a mob in order to do their damage and apply their debuffs. Given the recent changes to the combat system the original intent of Amazing Reflexes becomes less valid. These extemely high damage AE's that could one shot kill or nearly kill a brigand (or non tank class) have been lessened in most cases.This is not to say we will definitely keep Amazing Reflexes in its current form on Beta. It may change before the expansion releases if during testing its found to be better suited in some other implementation. I'd like to make it clear that we will continue to tune the game to adjust to the changes in the system. The mobs and challenges have been changing too, and everything has to be taken as a complete package.The upcoming proc changes may also help with the frequency of this ability triggering.-Dymus, 20061017 11:22pm Mountain Time

mikemcmodmi · 11-24-2006, 05:17 AM

Yea, that is sorta ironic if you think about it. With the resist buff from hardened we would have been OK if AoEs didn't one shot people. Now it seems you need 9k resists to be able to effectively mitigate any aoes instead of 6k. With 9k the 690 from hardened doesn't even get you close to where you need to be.

To get close you need to hit 9k, so resist necklace, 2 earrings, 2 rings plus resists from armor will get you close to not being one shotted on some mobs.... close but still one shotted or close to dead in a lot of instances. Enough to make it so we have to joust nonetheless. In some instances with all those resist gear you'll still get one shotted. Has anyone else tried the avatars.....

malnurish · 12-02-2006, 12:55 PM

Why the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] didnt they just never even give it to us.. they cant expect to give us a buff like this and be able to take it away wihtout having people [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about it, i mean seriously, this means an entire different way of playing a class some peopel have been playing for their entire eq2, this char IS my main, the only char i can raid wiht and now its broken.. get ur [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sorted SOE

=((

SKULL · 12-02-2006, 06:12 PM

PLEASE DON’T SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS THAN THE PRE EOF VERSION OF AR!!!

The game developers and designers knew ahead of time that this one change alone was going to cause a lot of hate and discontent in our community. They have refered to the combat changes as tweaks and adjustments and those of us that have seen previous combat changes and expansions this is the furthest thing from the truth and poor PR on the part of SOE Management. They have no intentions of doing damage control but are dug in and weathering out the sh#t storm this has caused. Almost every post on this subject shows that some of the brigand community would be willing to settle for the beta version of AR. Mates this is the oldest psychological ploy in the book. They changed it from a 28% 10 sec duration proc on beta to a 28% 5 sec duration proc on live which has most of the community in such turmoil some us are willing to settle with almost any version they give us. In other words, SOE takes away an ability that was questionable in the first place during beta testing and gives us an ability that without a doubt is useless, we cave out of desperation because we don’t want what we currently have and SOE gets what they want at the expense of its unhappy but paying customers.

Unlike some of the retired brigands and those who I suspect have a dev/beta tester realationship, that have addressed this post and many others, I have been raiding the new content since expansion went live and prior to expansion during beta almost every day and I am here to tell you…this is a unfair and biased change in the way a high end raiding brigand has to fight. Almost everyone of our debuff CA’s and attacks are only executable at a 5m range hence the reason we were given AR in the first place. This fact was is well known and promulgated by the devs. We have to get in close to the mobs to be effective and support the raid. We no longer have the ability to do that reliably with the current game mechanics and functionality of AR. Even with resists at 10k or better (which some of mine are right now depending on what encounter we are in) it’s a crap shoot on how long or if I will survive in the AOE. NO OTHER CLASS WITH AOE IMMUNITY HAS TO RELY ON A PROC PEOPLE!!!! That’s not fair to us as a community and needs to be changed. On some of the encounters this requires us to joust, although I feel really dirty and cheap afterward, I am ok with that…not happy about…but I will take allot of showers and deal with it. But on other encounters there is no way to get close to the mob to get debuffs on, provide dps to the raid and survive even with resists over 10k. And none of the encounters I am eluding to are final end game mobs with the new expansion so I freaking hate to see what that’s going to be like.

SOE is making changes to game content everyday and not posting what these changes are in the daily notes. I can understand that I suppose considering the massive amount of fixes they are making each day. Although the concept and design are impressive as usual SOE has dropped the ball with mechanics and execution of yet another expansion at the expense of its vested players and new players that just don’t understand the impact of these changes.

Bottom line folks….BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU ASK FOR BECAUSE YOU JUST MAY GET IT!!!!! Don’t settle for something less that what we need to execute our mission during a high end raid encounter. Right now with the current version or any version that utilizes a proc for this ability is unfair and unreliable and needs to be changed. With current CA limitations we deserve to get AR restored to its previous functionality prior to EOF launch. Anything less than that and the Brigand community is footing the bill for poor game mechanic design and execution.

Leadership 101 SOE: Never take away from your people what you have already given them. It only pisses them off and makes you look weak and unable or unwilling to stand up for them.

Partigas

70 Brigand of Vagabonds

UNREST

For those who might be a nervous when seeing the words “combat” and “changes,” used in the same sentence, we’d like to assure you that that this is nothing of the scale of what occurred last year where some systems were replaced wholesale and class abilities changed significantly. Gallentine 9-28-06

Since then we have had a lot of opportunity to review your feedback and to test the effects of these changes on both current and new Echoes of Faydwer content. In response, we have made a number of additional tweaks and additions. Dymus 11-15-06

“Please Don’t blow smoke up my but you will ruin my autopsy". Anthony Hopkins Meet Joe Black

mikemcmodmi · 12-03-2006, 12:58 AM

Fight the power!

Power to the brigands!

Nocturnal Aby · 12-03-2006, 04:15 PM

With fifteen pages, and 352 comments, you'd think this would warrent some sort of blip on the radar. It's frustrating to see this sort of change for me as a Brigand. I would think there could be a more inventive solution to create challenging content than simply making them do more AoEs, and if this is not how they made the content more challenging, than why tweak us at all? I, personally, think how they made moving in the last room in the Crypt of Valdoon quite ingenius, as well as the fire rooms. This is a wonderful example of how to make things challenging, and yet, there'd be no reason to nerf our AR ability.

Raif of Antonia Bayle,

70 Brigand, created November 9, 2004

Myrcul · 12-03-2006, 08:13 PM

Nocturnal Abyss wrote:

With fifteen pages, and 352 comments, you'd think this would warrent some sort of blip on the radar. It's frustrating to see this sort of change for me as a Brigand. I would think there could be a more inventive solution to create challenging content than simply making them do more AoEs, and if this is not how they made the content more challenging, than why tweak us at all? I, personally, think how they made moving in the last room in the Crypt of Valdoon quite ingenius, as well as the fire rooms. This is a wonderful example of how to make things challenging, and yet, there'd be no reason to nerf our AR ability.

Raif of Antonia Bayle,

70 Brigand, created November 9, 2004

Do not forget, not only was it nerfed for us, but given to several other classes in far superior versions. This is why I voted with my pocket book.

It is a cardinal law, do not take from players and then give back somewhat if they buy your new expansion. They never should have made this combat change in the manner they did. It was not what was promised (little tweak.. not full scale overhaul) and Prior to the LU/Release of EoF I was better than after. I can regain and in some cases exceed my previous power, but I MUST do the new content, but to be able to do the new content I am FORCED to group, or grind on stuff that is hardly worth it.

I am not at all pleased with the direction the devs took with this. I am singularly nonplussed as to why they made this change to brigands in the first place, but then have remained utterly uncommunicative with our community and, as already mentioned, provided our once reliable ability to us in a completely unreliable form, while giving our ability to other classes in a reliable form and sometimes superior to the form we had.

We've received no compensation for it, have seen our DPS diminish even further than they did on the whole.

We've seen (with every other class) our equipment become less useful overnight. Some of us who were stuck in the middle of certain quests are wondering if even doing the quest has any purpose now because the reward is crap now, etc.

The Devs really do deserve a finger in the eye for this ill-conceived set of changes.

FuzzBall · 12-04-2006, 06:24 PM

Nocturnal Abyss wrote:

With fifteen pages, and 352 comments, you'd think this would warrent some sort of blip on the radar. It's frustrating to see this sort of change for me as a Brigand. I would think there could be a more inventive solution to create challenging content than simply making them do more AoEs, and if this is not how they made the content more challenging, than why tweak us at all? I, personally, think how they made moving in the last room in the Crypt of Valdoon quite ingenius, as well as the fire rooms. This is a wonderful example of how to make things challenging, and yet, there'd be no reason to nerf our AR ability.

Yup, Im sure its been a blip on a radar, much like a biting sand fly. What we all seem to forget is that the devs couldnt give a flying f**k what we think. I can prove it as well.1. AR is nerfed to a proc2. AR proc is nerfed to 7 seconds3. AR proc is nerfed to 5 seconds with no warning.All the time, every Brig on beta/test is screaming! Bottom lineQ. Do the devs giving a flying f**k with Brigands have to say?A. F**k No.We just have to face it, the Brigs *AMAZING* Reflexes isnt going to change but what the Devs *cough* Lockeye (you Judas) is change the spell name to"Memories of Amazing Reflexes"

InquisitorR · 12-04-2006, 10:30 PM

Please, everyone calm down, the devs are trying to reword "working as intended" so it appeases us when they type it as a response. I still send my daily feedback and joust and not debuff, traumatic swipe is a thing of the past, cuz we cant stay in to make sure it stays on, yeehaw!

Goonch · 12-05-2006, 12:31 AM

InquisitorRed wrote:
traumatic swipe is a thing of the past, cuz we cant stay in to make sure it stays on, yeehaw!

no its not swashies can cast it from 20 m away!

DarkMirrax · 12-05-2006, 12:32 AM

Goonch wrote:

InquisitorRed wrote:
traumatic swipe is a thing of the past, cuz we cant stay in to make sure it stays on, yeehaw!

no its not swashies can cast it from 20 m away!

[Removed for Content]

Diapause · 12-05-2006, 01:40 AM

I think the recommendation is simple from our Brigand community -

** Place Amazing Reflexes on parity with other class AOE-Immunity capabilities **

- Remove the proc component and provide a player castable, short duration buff, on a specific reuse timer. Here's a big hint, utlize the Assassin Getaway AA as a model.

------------------------------------------------

That would be a start. Even though this is an ancient teaching spell CA that should be more powerful than any AA given to a class, I'd be willing for it to be at least matched in functionality for now. A 30 sec AOE Immunity buff that lets us autoattack from stealth is what the Assassins get. I am flabbergasted that the Highest DPS class in the entire game needs anymore assistance in avoiding AEs. There is absolutely no logic to penalizing Brigands so severely while other classes beneft.

Septro - Lvl 70 Brig

AratornCalahn · 12-05-2006, 01:50 AM

But the assassin one dosnt take SKILL! Ours needs to take skill. And the only messure of skill in this game, is spamming your combat arts....

Diapause · 12-05-2006, 01:53 AM

If that was the case make it trigger off of the last 4 combat arts used within 5 seconds. Then it is a guarantee to proc. The duration needs to be 10seconds though to at least try and time the skill effectively.

It isn't like this mechanic isn't in game already.. look at Double UP.

Septro - Lvl 70 Brigand

Turb · 12-05-2006, 05:49 AM

If skill is required, what if AR only stayed up while you're in the rear arc of a mob? Then you can land swipe, rake and dispatch, but you have to be nimble and alert not to stray into the side or front arc, and trust your tank... means it's not guaranteed, but a skillful player would be able to benefit where a more 'slack' one wouldn't SMILEY

A side benefit would be the AR effect icon coming on when in the rear arc, so you know you're in position for the rear-only strikes we have.

mikemcmodmi · 12-05-2006, 07:02 AM

What if they just gave us AR back before the nurf.

Or what if they changed AR so it actually takes some skill to use, instead of the leet spam and pray technique we're all using now.

Crimson Dragon · 12-05-2006, 08:54 AM

AratornCalahn wrote:But the assassin one dosnt take SKILL! Ours needs to take skill. And the only messure of skill in this game, is spamming your combat arts....

therefore, sailwind is the mark of a skilled brigand? :smileyvery-happy:

Ni7r0kill32 · 12-06-2006, 08:34 AM

I have personally sent pm's and tells to devs telling them, in beta this is not going ot work well. Also offering to test AR in a controlled situation to demonstrate why it is not working, also giving them suggestions on how to fix it/change it. Along with another guildmate of mine, its pathetic. Each time i have been ignored, i have pretty much given up. This is an outrage, swashy get group AOE immunity, druids, bards and assasins get self immunity. We got a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing proc... with no dev response. Every signle brigand should PM each dev every day untill this is fixed.

Crimson Dragon · 12-07-2006, 02:34 AM

Ni7r0kill32 wrote:I have personally sent pm's and tells to devs telling them, in beta this is not going ot work well. Also offering to test AR in a controlled situation to demonstrate why it is not working, also giving them suggestions on how to fix it/change it. Along with another guildmate of mine, its pathetic. Each time i have been ignored, i have pretty much given up. This is an outrage, swashy get group AOE immunity, druids, bards and assasins get self immunity. We got a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing proc... with no dev response. Every signle brigand should PM each dev every day untill this is fixed.

bards have a self immunity and group immunity if they chose to go that route, and the druid immunity allows anyone in the group to be immune if they stand on top of the druid. the druid is stunned during the duration of the effect.

ag · 12-07-2006, 04:15 AM

Holy crap, can we get that ability? I'd love it if we could be stunned, (or stifled) while we got AE immunity.Oh wait, we already asked for that and didn't get it.Cause it'd be overpowered. For Brigands. Uh... yeah.

duuf · 12-07-2006, 04:36 AM

Yep keep it coming. Our guild use to say bring the brig to the raid hes great, dont die much and debuffs are awesome.Now say bring the wiz he dont die near as much as the brig and dead brigs cant debuff.Duffus, lvl 70 WizDuufus, lvl 70 BrigDuufuss, lvl 70 PallyEverfrost

InquisitorR · 12-07-2006, 10:08 AM

Brigs arent worthless, no siree. But heres a fun idea: make it "On a successful combat art" no proc, just on a successful combat art.Use throwing CA, run in, debuff, get out...at least its a little more guaranteed.

tehh4x · 12-07-2006, 01:05 PM

i wouldnt mind AR as a proc if it was 10 seconds and didnt dispell when taking damage since 99% of mobs have some short of damage shield now anyway...

Land · 12-07-2006, 02:42 PM

Hello devs, now weeks after the nerf , I must say I am still upset and angry each time when the yellow icon is up and an AE is hitting me (which happened every time).

So please do something. Please remove AR and give us some useful like a clown suit …PLEASE…!!!

Seiden · 12-07-2006, 04:07 PM

Landra wrote:

like a clown suit …PLEASE…!!!

I'm glad my idea is getting put to use.

ag · 12-07-2006, 08:12 PM

>AR

Doran · 12-08-2006, 03:01 AM

I'll have to agree that it is definately useless. It is not procing anywhere near advertised. Indeed a clown suit or group clobber would be superior to this once great, but now pathetic skill of ancient teaching. A hint, or rumor even that this situation is being reviewed would be appreciated. Otherwise remove it, there is no point to having it since it appears the majority of the community cannot "skill" their way into avoiding AOEs. Thanks for nothing.

Jearth

11-23-2006, 01:16 PM	#331
Land Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 17	Hello Dev s what’s up? What your vision with the brigant class? Is there a vision? Is there everything you want to do? Do you ever listen to our concern? You nerfed amazing reflexes to worthless in named epic encounter, so we have to joust and bought resist gear to drop stat gear. We still can debuff the encounter but not so effective like before. That drop down our dps on this kind of mobs to 60-80%. On trash mobs and in groups we are working fine. Nerved a little bit, but fine. Solo -I don’t want to talk about. If there any plan, idea or something else to change amazing reflexes to something useful (not only to safe healer’s power on trash mobs with AE) or give us an ability to boost our dps in epic fights? I thought our CAs was designed under the assumption that we can stay at the mob all the time- and that was the reason for bring AR in the game -I am wrong? Is everything working like intend with our dps in the future? If I look at our AA, the most of them is just to make our abilities effective like they were before EoF came out. I don’t see really a damage boost like other ‘dps’ classes have. So I only can reply what is your vision now? And please don’t say your vision is that that the brigand stay at the mob spam CAs and pray to his god (btw Bristlebane is not in yet) that AR will proc and die 30% of the time (AR Master1 & 5 AA in enhance AR). Message Edited by Landra on 11-23-2006 12:22 AM __________________ Rakorium Brigand 70/75

11-23-2006, 03:18 PM	#332
Andai Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 87	Ventureinoz wrote: I think the devs have gone about this the wrong way, I think this should work in reverse. Amazing Reflexes adept 1 Grants the brigand immunity to AOE (except direct) Casts Lost Reflexes if caster takes damage (Lost Reflexes lasts 30 seconds) Has a 32% chance to cast Lowered Reflexes on a successful cobat art (Lowered Reflexes lasts 10 seconds) Upgrades to the spell decrease the % chance of procing Lowered Reflexes. This way the more you spam your CA's the more chance you have of losing your immunity, the brigand can then choose to moderate his CA use or continue to go all out and suffer the consequences. Im sure the percentages could use some work but for example it could be. Master 1 12% Adept 3 22% Adept 1 32% I think this is the best change suggestion i've seen since the nerf rumours started. This makes a lot of sense to me and imho would make the current version of AR go from "next to useless" to "balanced". Very good suggestion. __________________

11-24-2006, 12:26 AM	#334
ag General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 851	The irony is that AR was removed from Brigands (and given to several other sub-classes in a variety of forms) because the AE's in EoF were being reduced so that players wouldn't be one-shotted.So the justification for changing AR isn't valid, and the original justification to have AR in the first place (nasty AE's preventing the Brigand from debuffing the raid target) is even more valid than it was prior to EoF. Gotta love that.Here's the quote: Changes within the spells and abilities of the game are always done for a specific reason. The original intent for Amazing Reflexes was to give some survivability to brigands who needed to get close to a mob in order to do their damage and apply their debuffs. Given the recent changes to the combat system the original intent of Amazing Reflexes becomes less valid. *These extemely high damage AE's that could one shot kill or nearly kill a brigand (or non tank class) have been lessened in most cases.*This is not to say we will definitely keep Amazing Reflexes in its current form on Beta. It may change before the expansion releases if during testing its found to be better suited in some other implementation. I'd like to make it clear that we will continue to tune the game to adjust to the changes in the system. The mobs and challenges have been changing too, and everything has to be taken as a complete package.The upcoming proc changes may also help with the frequency of this ability triggering.-Dymus, 20061017 11:22pm Mountain Time __________________ 70 Brigand, 70 Coercer, 60 Bruiser, 50 Inquisitor 70 Alchemist, 70 Armorer, 70 Carpenter, 70 Provisioner, 40 Jeweler, 350 Tinkerer

12-02-2006, 12:55 PM	#336
malnurish Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 3	Why the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] didnt they just never even give it to us.. they cant expect to give us a buff like this and be able to take it away wihtout having people [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about it, i mean seriously, this means an entire different way of playing a class some peopel have been playing for their entire eq2, this char IS my main, the only char i can raid wiht and now its broken.. get ur [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sorted SOE =(( __________________ Aray-70 Brigand-Runnyeye Sherman-70 Zerker-Runnyeye

12-03-2006, 04:15 PM	#339
Nocturnal Aby General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 581	With fifteen pages, and 352 comments, you'd think this would warrent some sort of blip on the radar. It's frustrating to see this sort of change for me as a Brigand. I would think there could be a more inventive solution to create challenging content than simply making them do more AoEs, and if this is not how they made the content more challenging, than why tweak us at all? I, personally, think how they made moving in the last room in the Crypt of Valdoon quite ingenius, as well as the fire rooms. This is a wonderful example of how to make things challenging, and yet, there'd be no reason to nerf our AR ability. Raif of Antonia Bayle, 70 Brigand, created November 9, 2004 __________________ Keeper of Lore Endless Source of Useless Information

11-23-2006, 11:41 PM	#333
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	I think the worst part about the amazing reflexes nurf is having to put on so much resist gear to survive an aoe. I know other melee classes have to do the same but common, this is ridiculous. I end up putting resist gear in every jewellery slot I can to not get one shotted in aoes. So what's the point in gearing up to take down harder mobs or adornments? There is no point, unless you adorn your resist gear. You'll have to switch out every fabled you have to not get one shotted by aoes. Really the only way we can gear up is by getting better armor or a weapon. Everything else doesn't make a difference. I think the resist gear change was put in for pvp.... but man is it messing up pve raiding. You need 9k resists or so to mitigate anything from an aoe.

11-24-2006, 05:17 AM	#335
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	Yea, that is sorta ironic if you think about it. With the resist buff from hardened we would have been OK if AoEs didn't one shot people. Now it seems you need 9k resists to be able to effectively mitigate any aoes instead of 6k. With 9k the 690 from hardened doesn't even get you close to where you need to be. To get close you need to hit 9k, so resist necklace, 2 earrings, 2 rings plus resists from armor will get you close to not being one shotted on some mobs.... close but still one shotted or close to dead in a lot of instances. Enough to make it so we have to joust nonetheless. In some instances with all those resist gear you'll still get one shotted. Has anyone else tried the avatars.....

12-02-2006, 06:12 PM	#337
SKULL General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 30	PLEASE DON’T SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS THAN THE PRE EOF VERSION OF AR!!! The game developers and designers knew ahead of time that this one change alone was going to cause a lot of hate and discontent in our community. They have refered to the combat changes as tweaks and adjustments and those of us that have seen previous combat changes and expansions this is the furthest thing from the truth and poor PR on the part of SOE Management. They have no intentions of doing damage control but are dug in and weathering out the sh#t storm this has caused. Almost every post on this subject shows that some of the brigand community would be willing to settle for the beta version of AR. Mates this is the oldest psychological ploy in the book. They changed it from a 28% 10 sec duration proc on beta to a 28% 5 sec duration proc on live which has most of the community in such turmoil some us are willing to settle with almost any version they give us. In other words, SOE takes away an ability that was questionable in the first place during beta testing and gives us an ability that without a doubt is useless, we cave out of desperation because we don’t want what we currently have and SOE gets what they want at the expense of its unhappy but paying customers. Unlike some of the retired brigands and those who I suspect have a dev/beta tester realationship, that have addressed this post and many others, I have been raiding the new content since expansion went live and prior to expansion during beta almost every day and I am here to tell you…this is a unfair and biased change in the way a high end raiding brigand has to fight. Almost everyone of our debuff CA’s and attacks are only executable at a 5m range hence the reason we were given AR in the first place. This fact was is well known and promulgated by the devs. We have to get in close to the mobs to be effective and support the raid. We no longer have the ability to do that reliably with the current game mechanics and functionality of AR. Even with resists at 10k or better (which some of mine are right now depending on what encounter we are in) it’s a crap shoot on how long or if I will survive in the AOE. NO OTHER CLASS WITH AOE IMMUNITY HAS TO RELY ON A PROC PEOPLE!!!! That’s not fair to us as a community and needs to be changed. On some of the encounters this requires us to joust, although I feel really dirty and cheap afterward, I am ok with that…not happy about…but I will take allot of showers and deal with it. But on other encounters there is no way to get close to the mob to get debuffs on, provide dps to the raid and survive even with resists over 10k. And none of the encounters I am eluding to are final end game mobs with the new expansion so I freaking hate to see what that’s going to be like. SOE is making changes to game content everyday and not posting what these changes are in the daily notes. I can understand that I suppose considering the massive amount of fixes they are making each day. Although the concept and design are impressive as usual SOE has dropped the ball with mechanics and execution of yet another expansion at the expense of its vested players and new players that just don’t understand the impact of these changes. Bottom line folks….BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU ASK FOR BECAUSE YOU JUST MAY GET IT!!!!! Don’t settle for something less that what we need to execute our mission during a high end raid encounter. Right now with the current version or any version that utilizes a proc for this ability is unfair and unreliable and needs to be changed. With current CA limitations we deserve to get AR restored to its previous functionality prior to EOF launch. Anything less than that and the Brigand community is footing the bill for poor game mechanic design and execution. *Leadership 101 SOE: Never take away from your people what you have already given them. It only pisses them off and makes you look weak and unable or unwilling to stand up for them.* Partigas 70 Brigand of Vagabonds UNREST For those who might be a nervous when seeing the words “combat” and “changes,” used in the same sentence, we’d like to assure you that that this is nothing of the scale of what occurred last year where some systems were replaced wholesale and class abilities changed significantly. Gallentine 9-28-06 Since then we have had a lot of opportunity to review your feedback and to test the effects of these changes on both current and new Echoes of Faydwer content. In response, we have made a number of additional tweaks and additions. Dymus 11-15-06 “Please Don’t blow smoke up my but you will ruin my autopsy". Anthony Hopkins Meet Joe Black

12-03-2006, 12:58 AM	#338
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	Fight the power! Power to the brigands!

12-03-2006, 08:13 PM	#340
Myrcul Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 86	Nocturnal Abyss wrote: With fifteen pages, and 352 comments, you'd think this would warrent some sort of blip on the radar. It's frustrating to see this sort of change for me as a Brigand. I would think there could be a more inventive solution to create challenging content than simply making them do more AoEs, and if this is not how they made the content more challenging, than why tweak us at all? I, personally, think how they made moving in the last room in the Crypt of Valdoon quite ingenius, as well as the fire rooms. This is a wonderful example of how to make things challenging, and yet, there'd be no reason to nerf our AR ability. Raif of Antonia Bayle, 70 Brigand, created November 9, 2004 Do not forget, not only was it nerfed for us, but given to several other classes in far superior versions. This is why I voted with my pocket book. It is a cardinal law, do not take from players and then give back somewhat if they buy your new expansion. They never should have made this combat change in the manner they did. It was not what was promised (little tweak.. not full scale overhaul) and Prior to the LU/Release of EoF I was better than after. I can regain and in some cases exceed my previous power, but I MUST do the new content, but to be able to do the new content I am FORCED to group, or grind on stuff that is hardly worth it. I am not at all pleased with the direction the devs took with this. I am singularly nonplussed as to why they made this change to brigands in the first place, but then have remained utterly uncommunicative with our community and, as already mentioned, provided our once reliable ability to us in a completely unreliable form, while giving our ability to other classes in a reliable form and sometimes superior to the form we had. We've received no compensation for it, have seen our DPS diminish even further than they did on the whole. We've seen (with every other class) our equipment become less useful overnight. Some of us who were stuck in the middle of certain quests are wondering if even doing the quest has any purpose now because the reward is crap now, etc. The Devs really do deserve a finger in the eye for this ill-conceived set of changes.

12-04-2006, 06:24 PM	#341
FuzzBall Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 127	Nocturnal Abyss wrote: With fifteen pages, and 352 comments, you'd think this would warrent some sort of blip on the radar. It's frustrating to see this sort of change for me as a Brigand. I would think there could be a more inventive solution to create challenging content than simply making them do more AoEs, and if this is not how they made the content more challenging, than why tweak us at all? I, personally, think how they made moving in the last room in the Crypt of Valdoon quite ingenius, as well as the fire rooms. This is a wonderful example of how to make things challenging, and yet, there'd be no reason to nerf our AR ability. Yup, Im sure its been a blip on a radar, much like a biting sand fly. What we all seem to forget is that the devs couldnt give a flying fk what we think. I can prove it as well.1. AR is nerfed to a proc2. AR proc is nerfed to 7 seconds3. AR proc is nerfed to 5 seconds with no warning.All the time, every Brig on beta/test is screaming! Bottom lineQ. Do the devs giving a flying fk with Brigands have to say?A. F*k No.We just have to face it, the Brigs AMAZING* Reflexes isnt going to change but what the Devs cough Lockeye (you Judas) is change the spell name to"Memories of Amazing Reflexes" __________________

12-04-2006, 10:30 PM	#342
InquisitorR Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 68	Please, everyone calm down, the devs are trying to reword "working as intended" so it appeases us when they type it as a response. I still send my daily feedback and joust and not debuff, traumatic swipe is a thing of the past, cuz we cant stay in to make sure it stays on, yeehaw! __________________

12-05-2006, 12:31 AM	#343
Goonch Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 367	InquisitorRed wrote: traumatic swipe is a thing of the past, cuz we cant stay in to make sure it stays on, yeehaw! no its not swashies can cast it from 20 m away! __________________

12-05-2006, 12:32 AM	#344
DarkMirrax Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,238	Goonch wrote: InquisitorRed wrote: traumatic swipe is a thing of the past, cuz we cant stay in to make sure it stays on, yeehaw! no its not swashies can cast it from 20 m away! [Removed for Content] __________________ Q - Named and epics get + to hit which makes avoidance tanking suck. A- Yes they do, and yes it does =========================== Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard Game Designer, EverQuest II ... Whats Amazing Reflexes ?? ....... ===========================

12-05-2006, 01:40 AM	#345
Diapause Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 105	I think the recommendation is simple from our Brigand community - Place Amazing Reflexes on parity with other class AOE-Immunity capabilities - Remove the proc component and provide a player castable, short duration buff, on a specific reuse timer. Here's a big hint, utlize the Assassin Getaway AA as a model. ------------------------------------------------ That would be a start. Even though this is an ancient teaching spell CA that should be more powerful than any AA given to a class, I'd be willing for it to be at least matched in functionality for now. A 30 sec AOE Immunity buff that lets us autoattack from stealth is what the Assassins get. I am flabbergasted that the Highest DPS class in the entire game needs anymore assistance in avoiding AEs. There is absolutely no logic to penalizing Brigands so severely while other classes beneft. Septro - Lvl 70 Brig

12-05-2006, 01:50 AM	#346
AratornCalahn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	But the assassin one dosnt take SKILL! Ours needs to take skill. And the only messure of skill in this game, is spamming your combat arts.... __________________ Aratorn Not 80 but bored Brigand Runnyeye "The lack of pole-dancing-elf craftable items for houses is disapointing..."

12-05-2006, 01:53 AM	#347
Diapause Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 105	If that was the case make it trigger off of the last 4 combat arts used within 5 seconds. Then it is a guarantee to proc. The duration needs to be 10seconds though to at least try and time the skill effectively. It isn't like this mechanic isn't in game already.. look at Double UP. Septro - Lvl 70 Brigand

12-05-2006, 05:49 AM	#348
Turb General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,117	If skill is required, what if AR only stayed up while you're in the rear arc of a mob? Then you can land swipe, rake and dispatch, but you have to be nimble and alert not to stray into the side or front arc, and trust your tank... means it's not guaranteed, but a skillful player would be able to benefit where a more 'slack' one wouldn't A side benefit would be the AR effect icon coming on when in the rear arc, so you know you're in position for the rear-only strikes we have. __________________

12-05-2006, 07:02 AM	#349
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	What if they just gave us AR back before the nurf. Or what if they changed AR so it actually takes some skill to use, instead of the leet spam and pray technique we're all using now.

12-05-2006, 08:54 AM	#350
Crimson Dragon Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 913	AratornCalahn wrote:But the assassin one dosnt take SKILL! Ours needs to take skill. And the only messure of skill in this game, is spamming your combat arts.... therefore, sailwind is the mark of a skilled brigand? :smileyvery-happy: __________________ The best way to predict the future is to create it.

12-06-2006, 08:34 AM	#351
Ni7r0kill32 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	I have personally sent pm's and tells to devs telling them, in beta this is not going ot work well. Also offering to test AR in a controlled situation to demonstrate why it is not working, also giving them suggestions on how to fix it/change it. Along with another guildmate of mine, its pathetic. Each time i have been ignored, i have pretty much given up. This is an outrage, swashy get group AOE immunity, druids, bards and assasins get self immunity. We got a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing proc... with no dev response. Every signle brigand should PM each dev every day untill this is fixed. __________________ RETIRED Imhootep 70 Brigand-Retired Ardant 70 Zerk

12-07-2006, 02:34 AM	#352
Crimson Dragon Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 913	Ni7r0kill32 wrote:I have personally sent pm's and tells to devs telling them, in beta this is not going ot work well. Also offering to test AR in a controlled situation to demonstrate why it is not working, also giving them suggestions on how to fix it/change it. Along with another guildmate of mine, its pathetic. Each time i have been ignored, i have pretty much given up. This is an outrage, swashy get group AOE immunity, druids, bards and assasins get self immunity. We got a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing proc... with no dev response. Every signle brigand should PM each dev every day untill this is fixed. bards have a self immunity and group immunity if they chose to go that route, and the druid immunity allows anyone in the group to be immune if they stand on top of the druid. the druid is stunned during the duration of the effect. __________________ The best way to predict the future is to create it.

12-07-2006, 04:15 AM	#353
ag General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 851	Holy crap, can we get that ability? I'd love it if we could be stunned, (or stifled) while we got AE immunity.Oh wait, we already asked for that and didn't get it.Cause it'd be overpowered. For Brigands. Uh... yeah. __________________ 70 Brigand, 70 Coercer, 60 Bruiser, 50 Inquisitor 70 Alchemist, 70 Armorer, 70 Carpenter, 70 Provisioner, 40 Jeweler, 350 Tinkerer

12-07-2006, 04:36 AM	#354
duuf Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 417	Yep keep it coming. Our guild use to say bring the brig to the raid hes great, dont die much and debuffs are awesome.Now say bring the wiz he dont die near as much as the brig and dead brigs cant debuff.Duffus, lvl 70 WizDuufus, lvl 70 BrigDuufuss, lvl 70 PallyEverfrost __________________ Duubard lvl 90 Dirge Everfrost Duufuss lvl 80 Pally Everfrost Duffus lvl 80 Wiz Everfrost Duufus lvl 80 Brig Everfrost Duutru lvl 80 Troubador Everfrost Duudruid lvl 90 Warden Everfrost

12-07-2006, 10:08 AM	#355
InquisitorR Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 68	Brigs arent worthless, no siree. But heres a fun idea: make it "On a successful combat art" no proc, just on a successful combat art.Use throwing CA, run in, debuff, get out...at least its a little more guaranteed. __________________

12-07-2006, 01:05 PM	#356
tehh4x Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 51	i wouldnt mind AR as a proc if it was 10 seconds and didnt dispell when taking damage since 99% of mobs have some short of damage shield now anyway...

12-07-2006, 02:42 PM	#357
Land Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 17	Hello devs, now weeks after the nerf , I must say I am still upset and angry each time when the yellow icon is up and an AE is hitting me (which happened every time). So please do something. Please remove AR and give us some useful like a clown suit …PLEASE…!!! __________________ Rakorium Brigand 70/75

12-07-2006, 04:07 PM	#358
Seiden Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 185	Landra wrote: like a clown suit …PLEASE…!!! I'm glad my idea is getting put to use.

12-07-2006, 08:12 PM	#359
ag General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 851	>AR __________________ 70 Brigand, 70 Coercer, 60 Bruiser, 50 Inquisitor 70 Alchemist, 70 Armorer, 70 Carpenter, 70 Provisioner, 40 Jeweler, 350 Tinkerer

12-08-2006, 03:01 AM	#360
Doran Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	I'll have to agree that it is definately useless. It is not procing anywhere near advertised. Indeed a clown suit or group clobber would be superior to this once great, but now pathetic skill of ancient teaching. A hint, or rumor even that this situation is being reviewed would be appreciated. Otherwise remove it, there is no point to having it since it appears the majority of the community cannot "skill" their way into avoiding AOEs. Thanks for nothing. Jearth