Job Board

[MoonSinger]

   It would be nice to have some sort of artisan job board where people could submit item requests and place the mats & fee in escrow to allow crafters to fill them when the requester may be offline.  Allowing people to pick up jobs, which would grant them a short-term exclusivity to the contract, or possibly causing it to lock out the job when a person is actually making the item (similar to the commission system), could prevent multiple crafters from trying to fill the same job order.

   Having job posts last for a set duration (day/week/# of days) would prevent an infinite accumulation, and the mats and coin in escrow could be returned via mail if the job goes unfilled for the entire duration.  When the request is filled, either a notice of completion (for item pickup from the job board) or the finished product itself could be automatically mailed to the hirer.

   A slightly different variation of this idea was suggested several years ago here.  Although the system suggested was not incorporated into the game, I believe the current demand for this type of service is higher than it has ever been before.  I know that for some of the new apprentice-researched recipes especially, it can be quite a trial trying to find a crafter who has researched the particular recipe being sought.  The seeker can spend hours requesting an artisan's service, only to end up leaving empty-handed, especially if they play primarily during off-peak hours.

   If any others have input on how this suggestion could be further refined, replies would be appreciated.

   Thank you for your time and consideration. 

[Deveryn]

I would like to see an LFW board, where I can advertise my business and people can make requests through that.

[Cromey]

I think something like what the OP said would be really nice for us to have.  It can be a pain in the rear end to find someone who has researched a recipe at the lower levels from the research assistants.

[Tayne]

Awesome idea!

Would you have it as an extra tab on the broker panel? Or just a separate board that people could check?

Would you have a standard fee to craft the item -- say you picked up the job, crafted the item, then like commissioned items you automatically get the coin once done and the item is auto-mailed off the the requester?

Or would you have it set up that you list what you can craft and what fee you charge, then someone can "hire" you and you pick up the request and craft as mentioned above?

Perhaps it could work both ways? You could have listings of what you can craft, and have listings of what people are seeking?

Only flaw in the ointment is finessing the fee to make the item and the materials, of course. Have it listed on the broker like a broker item (with a new category to search -- think jewellery, only this category would be jobs) ... then set your price?

But how do you work it that the reactants or rares get to you?  Or would the job you pick up require you to have all the mats? The only issue with the escrow thing is allowing access to your home that's beyond visitor.

Sorry, really love this idea, but trying to puzzle out how it could work seamlessly. I guess I'm making it more complicated than it should be, but would be nice if it had some automated feature that you craft the item and it auto-mails to the person who requested the item.

[BulletHole]

Allow the purchaser to post what they are looking for and the price they are willing to pay. I believe there are other games with auction houses set up like this already. So i dont think it should be too hard to steal their ideas.

[Deveryn]

BulletHole wrote:

Allow the purchaser to post what they are looking for and the price they are willing to pay. I believe there are other games with auction houses set up like this already. So i dont think it should be too hard to steal their ideas.

Other games do Buy Orders, but you can end up with people offering very little money for items and those orders just sit there on the market. Crafting usually occurs a little faster on those games, so people can fill orders right away. I think it's better if you find another way to bring the buyer and the crafter together.

[ashnolo]

maybe the "buyer" could create a job on an npc by picking the recipe they want, with any rares or mats they want to upload, and depositing how much coin they are paying.

The crafter could accept the order similar to a rush order, they have 8 minutes to craft the item or it reverts back to the job board for another crafter to try (without the rares/mats actually hitting their inventory, like commissioned pieces). The rares and mats are only accessible to the crafter for the recipe picked in the order.  

As long as a crafter isn't currently completing the order the buyer can withdraw the order if they change their mind.

On successful completion the item sits on the npc with a notification to the buyer that the order is complete and ready to be picked up, with the seller instantly getting the coin.

[Banditman]

Forget all the materials and crap.  It just adds complexity that would delay the release of such a feature.

All you need is a board that lists requested item and a price.  You select the item on the board, click "Fill" and if you have that item in your inventory it is removed and the coin transferred.

Simple.  Direct.

[Tayne]

At the very least, it sounds like this idea has many of us excited. Hope they implement it. Great idea.

[Deveryn]

Banditman wrote:

Forget all the materials and crap.  It just adds complexity that would delay the release of such a feature.

All you need is a board that lists requested item and a price.  You select the item on the board, click "Fill" and if you have that item in your inventory it is removed and the coin transferred.

Simple.  Direct.

I agree that materials should be left out and things should be kept simple, but who is going to have enough of anything ready to go for a buy order?

It might be easy to guess what people will want in the way of potions and food, but what about all the other items out there? How do I know I'm not wasting my time trying to fill an order someone may have seen a few minutes earlier? Let's say I find a carpentry order for 15 wantia beds. I go to start crafting them and come back to the order and I find it filled. I can throw them on the broker and they might sit there for months. (I just checked my broker and I have some beds that have been there for months. Thanks undercutters. There would have to be a way to lay claim to a work order. Someone suggested a timer be placed on the order. That would also mean you have to restrict the orders to a reasonable number because it gets more complex if you try to have it give time based on the number of items requested. Pricing would have to be set in a way to make it a fair or at least show us when offers fall under what an item costs in fuel.

This could be all well and good, assuming someone wants a regular handcrafted item, but what about Mastercrafted or Heirloom items that require a component? These are the items people are usually looking for if they ask on the crafting channel. I belive it would be far simpler to add in one or two ways to make people more aware of the crafters on their server than to develop another hit-or-miss transaction system. Whatever happens, we need an improvement to LFW. Right now, it's just a flag that can be searched and I bet a lot of people aren't aware of it on either end.

[Tayne]

Ok I've been thinking about this and here's how I think it would be great to have it -- bear in mind this is only my opinion:

1. You have an extra tab on the broker for commissioning crafted items. Because in essence that's what would be happening, the player would be commissioning the crafter to make something. This would just offer crafters one central spot to find jobs if they're not online while the player is seeking service -- and helps the player from sometimes days of "LF crafter to make MC weapons, PST." It also lets the crafter do the work on his or her own time, not have to drop a dungeon to go help someone out.

2. A window pops up once the player creates his or her request much like the existing commissioned item process, and the player deposits the rares and other mats that are needed to create the item -- this would be non-rare items to MC items to apprentice recipe reactants. Once done, this creates a listing on the job board.

3. The crafter browses the job board and gets the "rush" order and crafts it. Once it's done, the fee to craft it automatically goes into the crafters bags, like commissioned work, and the item is automatically mailed off to the player -- or they get a mail notice to check the board and pick up their item.

The only issue here is what is a fair fee?  As a general rule for myself (again my own preference), I tend to charge 1 gold per level of the item, plus a 5 gold tip. Others, I know, charge much less. Others charge much more. But if the items are all there (from rares to reactants to general mats and fuel), and the only need is to actually craft the item, I think 1 gold per level plus 5 gold tip is fair. What do you guys think?

[Deveryn]

Here's some elaboration on my job board idea.In addition to LFW, a new LFC (looking for crafter) tag is introduced. The job board will show who has this tag up and have the details of what the person is looking for. Listings could be filtered by the class that can make the item and light up when a class match is shown.For the crafter looking for work, they can post an ad to this board, stating what classes they have available. On their ad, they will have an available or unavailable status marking dependent on whether they have LFW on or off. A last login time would help sort out who might be available in a reasonable amount of time. Past a month, the listing could be hidden away until the person logs in again.

It's a simpler system that (for the most part) uses existing data to help people find each other. If it were to have a physical location, I would like to see it in Mara. It's a good neutral setting with everything close to the bell.

[CorpseGoddess]

Jayne@Kithicor wrote:

Ok I've been thinking about this and here's how I think it would be great to have it -- bear in mind this is only my opinion:

1. You have an extra tab on the broker for commissioning crafted items. Because in essence that's what would be happening, the player would be commissioning the crafter to make something. This would just offer crafters one central spot to find jobs if they're not online while the player is seeking service -- and helps the player from sometimes days of "LF crafter to make MC weapons, PST." It also lets the crafter do the work on his or her own time, not have to drop a dungeon to go help someone out.

2. A window pops up once the player creates his or her request much like the existing commissioned item process, and the player deposits the rares and other mats that are needed to create the item -- this would be non-rare items to MC items to apprentice recipe reactants. Once done, this creates a listing on the job board.

3. The crafter browses the job board and gets the "rush" order and crafts it. Once it's done, the fee to craft it automatically goes into the crafters bags, like commissioned work, and the item is automatically mailed off to the player -- or they get a mail notice to check the board and pick up their item.

The only issue here is what is a fair fee?  As a general rule for myself (again my own preference), I tend to charge 1 gold per level of the item, plus a 5 gold tip. Others, I know, charge much less. Others charge much more. But if the items are all there (from rares to reactants to general mats and fuel), and the only need is to actually craft the item, I think 1 gold per level plus 5 gold tip is fair. What do you guys think?

I think the system mechanic here is a good idea, but the problem is pricing.  As soon as we set a random standard on what we think something is worth, people will not be willing to pay more than that.  That's why the free market system of the broker works so well--it fluctuates with supply and demand.  I have enough problems selling my tradeskilled items for what I think they're worth--I don't want to add another wrinkle into it.

The problem with introducing your system is that by its very nature, it can't keep up with the "on the fly" changing market prices that I think are important to keeping tradeskilling competitve.  I *do* think that something of this nature (a job board) would be a *huge* benefit to crafters, but I think the pricing should come from the consumer end, not the supplier.  Let the person who wants the job done offer the mats--and the price they're willing to pay.  Then *I* can decide whether or not the job is worth my time and money.  

[Rijacki]

A thread much like this thread on the idea of a 'reverse broker', a 'jobs board', 'doing "writs" for other players', etc will pop up about once a month or so.

The big issues that have come up before (again and again):

• Do you lock the job to one crafter taking the order? What happens if that crafter doesn't complete it?
  • What if something comes up while he/she is working on it and they have to run off, likely intending to finish it later?
  • Does the person placing the job order lose out? 
• If you don't lock the job to one crafter, what happens if two complete it?
  • Does only one get the payment? if so what happens to the second one?
• Who pays for the materials?
• Does the person placing the order have to pay for it when putting in the order or when it's completed?
  • If they pay when placing, what if it's never filled?
  • If they pay when completed, what happens if they don't have the money at that time?

There really isn't an easy way to make it "fair" for everyone.

[Katine]

There is the LFW (Looking for Work) option that was put in the game years ago.  Just type /lfw to toggle it off and on.  Anyone who does a /who all lfw will find your name (or they can go through the LFG window.

It shows the person's tradeskill class and level, and you can send them a tell to work out a deal one on one.

It seems to me like that is the most efficient way.  Maybe not as convenient as a jobs board, and it seems like very few remember or know about this feature given that it's so old.

[Lempo]

I thought LFW/LFG were in EQ2 from the start.

The job board is not a bad idea, I wouldn't look for it here but it would be a good thing to put in for EQNext

[dankaro]

i like this idea or some variation of it. Someone mentioned an NPC that would hold the items in escrow tskiller takes order has a few minutes to craft it before it gets returned to board upon completion item is mailed to buyer and payment is made to tskiller.

[wullailhuit]

Jayne@Kithicor wrote:

Ok I've been thinking about this and here's how I think it would be great to have it -- bear in mind this is only my opinion:

1. You have an extra tab on the broker for commissioning crafted items. Because in essence that's what would be happening, the player would be commissioning the crafter to make something. This would just offer crafters one central spot to find jobs if they're not online while the player is seeking service -- and helps the player from sometimes days of "LF crafter to make MC weapons, PST." It also lets the crafter do the work on his or her own time, not have to drop a dungeon to go help someone out.

2. A window pops up once the player creates his or her request much like the existing commissioned item process, and the player deposits the rares and other mats that are needed to create the item -- this would be non-rare items to MC items to apprentice recipe reactants. Once done, this creates a listing on the job board.

3. The crafter browses the job board and gets the "rush" order and crafts it. Once it's done, the fee to craft it automatically goes into the crafters bags, like commissioned work, and the item is automatically mailed off to the player -- or they get a mail notice to check the board and pick up their item.

The only issue here is what is a fair fee?  As a general rule for myself (again my own preference), I tend to charge 1 gold per level of the item, plus a 5 gold tip. Others, I know, charge much less. Others charge much more. But if the items are all there (from rares to reactants to general mats and fuel), and the only need is to actually craft the item, I think 1 gold per level plus 5 gold tip is fair. What do you guys think?

This , but the fee would be decided by the person asking for the items to be made , they would decide what it's worth to them for it to be made , the higher the fee , the more likely someone would make it fast.

[wullailhuit]

dankaro wrote:

i like this idea or some variation of it. Someone mentioned an NPC that would hold the items in escrow tskiller takes order has a few minutes to craft it before it gets returned to board upon completion item is mailed to buyer and payment is made to tskiller.

Few minutes won't be enough , a request for 50,000 arrows (and yes I had an order for that number of arrows several times) will take a long time to complete.

Set it to 3 hours and that would cover most eventualities.

[Rijacki]

Lempo@Everfrost wrote:

I thought LFW/LFG were in EQ2 from the start.

The job board is not a bad idea, I wouldn't look for it here but it would be a good thing to put in for EQNext

It was added in within a few weeks or a couple months after launch, when the GUs were called LUs and were in the single digits (and more frequent as they were finishing the game post launch).

[Banditman]

Rijacki wrote:

A thread much like this thread on the idea of a 'reverse broker', a 'jobs board', 'doing "writs" for other players', etc will pop up about once a month or so.

The big issues that have come up before (again and again):

Good list of issues.

• Do you lock the job to one crafter taking the order? Absolutely not.  What happens if that crafter doesn't complete it?   N/A.
  • What if something comes up while he/she is working on it and they have to run off, likely intending to finish it later?
  • Does the person placing the job order lose out? 
• If you don't lock the job to one crafter, what happens if two complete it?  First one to complete it wins / receives payment.
  • Does only one get the payment?  Yes. if so what happens to the second one?  They put the item on the broker and sell it.
• Who pays for the materials?  The person who creates the order puts a lump sum in as part of the order.  The crafter gets the sum, out of which they purchase and provide all materials and fuel.  If you don't want to do it for that price, DONT TAKE THE ORDER.
• Does the person placing the order have to pay for it when putting in the order or when it's completed?  Payment is deposited when the order is placed with the NPC.
  • If they pay when placing, what if it's never filled?  After 48 hours, the ordering player can remove their order and recieve their money back.
  • If they pay when completed, what happens if they don't have the money at that time?  N/A

There really isn't an easy way to make it "fair" for everyone.

What I've described is absolutely fair.  To everyone.

This *also* creates the possibility for a new Guild Hall amenity - the Crafting Broker.

[Deveryn]

Banditman wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

A thread much like this thread on the idea of a 'reverse broker', a 'jobs board', 'doing "writs" for other players', etc will pop up about once a month or so.

The big issues that have come up before (again and again):

Good list of issues.

• Do you lock the job to one crafter taking the order? Absolutely not.  What happens if that crafter doesn't complete it?   N/A.
  • What if something comes up while he/she is working on it and they have to run off, likely intending to finish it later?
  • Does the person placing the job order lose out? 
• If you don't lock the job to one crafter, what happens if two complete it?  First one to complete it wins / receives payment.
  • Does only one get the payment?  Yes. if so what happens to the second one?  They put the item on the broker and sell it.
• Who pays for the materials?  The person who creates the order puts a lump sum in as part of the order.  The crafter gets the sum, out of which they purchase and provide all materials and fuel.  If you don't want to do it for that price, DONT TAKE THE ORDER.
• Does the person placing the order have to pay for it when putting in the order or when it's completed?  Payment is deposited when the order is placed with the NPC.
  • If they pay when placing, what if it's never filled?  After 48 hours, the ordering player can remove their order and recieve their money back.
  • If they pay when completed, what happens if they don't have the money at that time?  N/A

There really isn't an easy way to make it "fair" for everyone.

What I've described is absolutely fair.  To everyone.

This *also* creates the possibility for a new Guild Hall amenity - the Crafting Broker.

It hardly seems fair or even worth the effort. The second bullet point is the part I like the least and feels like 1 step forward and 2 steps backward. I can already make a random item and hope it sells on the broker. Why am I going to make an order of items only to have someone else beat me to it?

Why do we need yet another amenity?

What's wrong with simply making it easier to find the crafter or crafting job you're looking for?

[ashnolo]

Rijacki wrote:

A thread much like this thread on the idea of a 'reverse broker', a 'jobs board', 'doing "writs" for other players', etc will pop up about once a month or so.

The big issues that have come up before (again and again):

• Do you lock the job to one crafter taking the order? What happens if that crafter doesn't complete it?
  • What if something comes up while he/she is working on it and they have to run off, likely intending to finish it later?
  • Does the person placing the job order lose out? 
• If you don't lock the job to one crafter, what happens if two complete it?
  • Does only one get the payment? if so what happens to the second one?
• Who pays for the materials?
• Does the person placing the order have to pay for it when putting in the order or when it's completed?
  • If they pay when placing, what if it's never filled?
  • If they pay when completed, what happens if they don't have the money at that time?

There really isn't an easy way to make it "fair" for everyone.

I think we've addressed alot of these issues in this thread.

Make it a rush order, only one crafter can have it at a time, and for a short duration, if they have to "run off" the order fails, going back to the board for another crafter. If mats aren't supplied, crafter pays for mats. Buyer pays when placing order and can withdraw the order at any time its not assigned to a crafter.

[Canelin]

Why restrict to TS items?  

EQ1 has a buyer mode where players select what items they want to purchase and for how much.  Sellers just view the board and sell any items they have in their inventory there and then.

[Deveryn]

Canelin wrote:

Why restrict to TS items?  

EQ1 has a buyer mode where players select what items they want to purchase and for how much.  Sellers just view the board and sell any items they have in their inventory there and then.

Most of the buyers in EQ1 weren't looking for armor or collection items, they were focused on gathering tradeskill components. It would all be stuff you would have collected while adventuring. You never looked on /buyer then tried to go fill an order for someone.

Unless there was a change in the last couple of years, that mode also involves parking your character in a zone. It would be nice if housing could be used for this, but there's still that problem of making the items before someone else. You also have the problem of getting to some houses to fill orders. You're still not solving the problem of commission items.

[CorpseGoddess]

Banditman wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

A thread much like this thread on the idea of a 'reverse broker', a 'jobs board', 'doing "writs" for other players', etc will pop up about once a month or so.

The big issues that have come up before (again and again):

Good list of issues.

• Do you lock the job to one crafter taking the order? Absolutely not.  What happens if that crafter doesn't complete it?   N/A.
  • What if something comes up while he/she is working on it and they have to run off, likely intending to finish it later?
  • Does the person placing the job order lose out? 
• If you don't lock the job to one crafter, what happens if two complete it?  First one to complete it wins / receives payment.
  • Does only one get the payment?  Yes. if so what happens to the second one?  They put the item on the broker and sell it.
• Who pays for the materials?  The person who creates the order puts a lump sum in as part of the order.  The crafter gets the sum, out of which they purchase and provide all materials and fuel.  If you don't want to do it for that price, DONT TAKE THE ORDER.
• Does the person placing the order have to pay for it when putting in the order or when it's completed?  Payment is deposited when the order is placed with the NPC.
  • If they pay when placing, what if it's never filled?  After 48 hours, the ordering player can remove their order and recieve their money back.
  • If they pay when completed, what happens if they don't have the money at that time?  N/A

There really isn't an easy way to make it "fair" for everyone.

What I've described is absolutely fair.  To everyone.

This *also* creates the possibility for a new Guild Hall amenity - the Crafting Broker.

If you're going to put a time cap on the order, then there has to be some kind of amount cap as well.  Would *you* like to craft 40k arrows in 48 hours?  I know I wouldn't.  

[Tayne]

I like the idea of the player submitting the fee cost to craft the item -- logically the higher the fee, the quicker it would get crafted. That's very clever.

I also think that when the player posts the request on the board they have to deposit everything, mats, rares, reactants, etc .. PLUS the tip they're willing to pay to have it crafted -- at the TIME they make the post, the fee is withdrawn from their bags and put up on the board with the posting and the other materials. If the item doesn't get crafted in a timely manner, the player can simply cancel the request and the money is either given back to him directly or via email.

I also think this kind of board would open the eyes of those who don't craft to understanding exactly how much something costs, outside of time to level up a crafter. There's a lot of players who will ask for something to be made and not count the cost of the rare or the fuel -- and this might lead to a greater understanding of how the system works.

*taps window* ... Yooo hooo Devs? I think you'd make a ton of folks happy if you could make this come to fruition.

[Canelin]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

Canelin wrote:

Why restrict to TS items?  

EQ1 has a buyer mode where players select what items they want to purchase and for how much.  Sellers just view the board and sell any items they have in their inventory there and then.

Most of the buyers in EQ1 weren't looking for armor or collection items, they were focused on gathering tradeskill components. It would all be stuff you would have collected while adventuring. You never looked on /buyer then tried to go fill an order for someone.

Unless there was a change in the last couple of years, that mode also involves parking your character in a zone. It would be nice if housing could be used for this, but there's still that problem of making the items before someone else. You also have the problem of getting to some houses to fill orders. You're still not solving the problem of commission items.

I for one certainly set my self up as a buyer for things other than TS components.

I also looked at what /buyers were after and would look to getting those things if it would turn a profit for me.

Parking a char in EQ1 to do this is totally irrellevant as EQ2 has an offline sale model.

The idea here is moving away from the "I want someone to make this and fufill this order" to "I want this - here's what I will pay" and leave it up to the potential supplier to accept the terms or not.  There's no placing orders or wot-not.

[Tayne]

I'd like to add that if this does get incorporated, please oh please, let a crafter be able to pick up orders -- whether it's another tab on the broker panel or a separate board itself -- within their houses and/or guild halls. Having to zone in and out per order would get a bit annoying after a while.

[Deveryn]

Canelin wrote:

The idea here is moving away from the "I want someone to make this and fufill this order" to "I want this - here's what I will pay" and leave it up to the potential supplier to accept the terms or not.  There's no placing orders or wot-not.

Isn't that the whole point of this job board idea and why it's even being referred to as such? In EQ2, it's not always as simple as "I want this - here's what I'll pay." The crafter doesn't always have all the ingredients necessary. (See: Reactant armor and Ry'Gorr / Thurgadin armor.)