SOE Answer these questions if you can.

Kepic0 · 03-01-2006, 08:26 PM

Coercer,

If a coercer is expose to coerce things to fight for it. Shouldn't the Coercers charm be better then a mear potion you can buy ? Shouldn't the potion be able to break and our charm not be able to break ?

Illusionist,

Shouldn't an illusionist have more then two illusions or even illusions that help him fight in battle? Why can anyone buy illusion stones to change there illusion but yet an illusionist is restricted to two?

Raiding ( epic targets )...

Why are enchanters so useless in raids to the point we can only use a max of 6-10 spells useable in raids out of our 20-23 spells we have ?

Overall

Why is the enchanter class in general so restricted that our core functions in the game are useless on epic targets and our main functions are better when being bought? Explain this to me and I would be greatly appreciated....

Pins · 03-01-2006, 08:34 PM

You won't get an answer for your question, as you're asking for a dev response, this is a no-no SMILEY

As for charm, wow, you're complaining about something you can only use once, and can only have 1 of them on you, not to mention you die, it's over with. Plus I bet the damage capability of the pet when charmed with that compared to a M1 charm are going to be a LOT less, so it's meaningless.Uhm, Illusionists have more than 2 illusions. In fact I have 5 self-illusions, and 2 group illusions, but whatever, they're fluff who cares. The real way the illusions work are the spells. Read the combat spam when you cast a spell on a mob, and you'll see what an Illusionist is called an Illusionist.They said they're looking into our raiding, and quit just jabbing at them rather than bringing up options for them to consider.

Kepic0 · 03-01-2006, 09:58 PM

Yea I am complaining about something you can use only once cause you can keep buying it and use it over and over. Also it's a lot better then our master charm with better regen. Plus my friend is a lvl 64 illusionist i know all about illusionists. Go complain about a post somewhere else like you illusionist forum

Pins · 03-01-2006, 11:13 PM

Kepic048 wrote:Yea I am complaining about something you can use only once cause you can keep buying it and use it over and over. Also it's a lot better then our master charm with better regen. Plus my friend is a lvl 64 illusionist i know all about illusionists. Go complain about a post somewhere else like you illusionist forum

How the hell do you know it's better than Master Charm? Is there some magical Level 50 guild out there already? Until you've used it, you can't compare it.

Dr_Cyr · 03-02-2006, 12:26 AM

Go look at the merchant and then look at the M1 spell Pinski.It is better. More power regen. More health regen. Longer duration. They've psoted screen shots of the spell and the purchasable charms.Care to admit you're wrong?

Pins · 03-02-2006, 12:37 AM

Dr_Cyrus wrote:Go look at the merchant and then look at the M1 spell Pinski.It is better. More power regen. More health regen. Longer duration. They've psoted screen shots of the spell and the purchasable charms.Care to admit you're wrong?

Just because something has better regen, doesn't mean the mob itself will be better at doing damage. Big deal it has longer duration, are you sure it doesn't include an early break feature? Are you sure this charm isn't like the troubador charm? Are you sure the charmed pet will even come close to doing the same amount of damage as a Master Charm? You're basing your facts on opinions, not on facts.

Mandelbro · 03-02-2006, 01:43 AM

Dr_Cyrus wrote:Go look at the merchant and then look at the M1 spell Pinski.It is better. More power regen. More health regen. Longer duration. They've psoted screen shots of the spell and the purchasable charms.Care to admit you're wrong?

HAHAHAHAHA. If you're basing your argument on the regen and duration, then you need to change your perspective on what makes charm useful. With M1 charm, I never have problems with regen rates. Damage and usefulness is the key here, and there is NO WAY that a purchased item will provide the firepower to a charmed mob like a Master 1 spell. Sure, a longer duration is better, but if I have a POS mob for half an hour vs. a pet that turns me into a demi-god on the battle field for 10 minutes - and then recast - I'll take demi-god, please.Care to admit that you don't know what you're talking about?

Murdaben · 03-02-2006, 02:07 AM

Look at it.Coompare it to the level 47 (same level!) Master 1 Dominate. I have it, and compared both. And I have the Adept 1 61st as well. The 61 Adept 1 is pretty sad because the new Sky mobs seem to have higher resists so even Adept 1 sucks at these levels. I wasted a few gold buying that. Dont bother upgrading unless you have somone making the Adept 3 or you can find a Master at a good price.Back on topic: Are you telling me they jack up all the stats and then make it not do damage like an Master?Its fabled IIRC, and that means it will most likely work like a Master 1 down the line.And Yes I am a coercer, and I came up the hard way under the old rules. going back to the short charm, which we all used as a spare mez. I started playing my coercer as a main again instead of a raid buffbot a few weeks before the expansion, and over in Beta, and Im still pretty peeved at the mess they made out of what was a perfectly good AA, Mana Flow. There have been some grat posts on that here. Taking a look at these charms. They are the same level as Dominate, have better stats than Dominate at Master 1, and are rated "Fabled" - that makes them a master level spell in all respects. Go search the broker for "Fabled" level spell scrolls and see what comes up. So its mos probable that these are Master 1 type damage. They would not spend enough time to do much else, and they seldomconsider effects on coercers for anyting. Or have you not learned that by now? After all they did not even bother to test the substitute AA they trhew in at the last minute instead of the one we tested and liked in Beta.This is Sonly Online we are talking about, or have you not been a corcer for the past year and a half? How much designer and developer feedback have you seen here? How many unworked bugs are there still around after months of complaints? How long did it take them to do the class revamp? How long did it take them to admit they blew the Charm spells to begin in that revamp with by having the resists cranked in the LU that they redid the class with?Get your head out of ~~your a~~ the sand. A Coercer pet makes you a Demigod? Drugs do bad things to your brain, dont do drugs anymore mmkay? Any pet you get that makes you a DemiGod is a) Not going to stay charmed for 10 minutes on a regular basis and b) not likely to be all that common and c) not usable on raids due to the 3 conc slots and the random brreak that can wipe a raid.You're the one that obviously has not had a coercer for long. IMHO the OP was right. We will see once somone actually has a guild high level enough to buy one and test it. Looking for Halcyon Affinity or Eidolon or Bekwen on Antonia Bayle, they will probably have the real story. And I bet you will be just as gone as you are wrong on this. Demigod - thanks for the laugh though, that was funny, in a crackheaded sort of way.

Now if you care to address the facts, I'll accept your apology. As for the OP, he's a flamewarrior. Ive seen his posts. But it doesnt mean he is wrong, nor that a fanboi like you are right.

Message Edited by Murdabenne on 03-01-200601:33 PM

Mandelbro · 03-02-2006, 02:28 AM

I've been a Coercer since release. Here's your crack pipe back.

Murdaben · 03-02-2006, 02:57 AM

OK no need for me to pull this into a flamewar. I stand by my words concerning the possible facts of the charm. the rest of the stuff is more message board back and forth.I'm still willing to bet they put the charms at Master level for damage though. That seems typical of the lack of attention to detail the developers have when it comes to coercers.Then again, lack of attention can be a good thing when it comes to Devs and EQ2. I guess we can ask rangers how they feel about the proc revamp. :smileyvery-happy:One other thing I bet is that if the charms are at Master 1, they will get nerfed back to Adept 1, or else they add in the resist-break or both. If they do not then these would be far too overpowering. Especially if they do not nerf the mob to no-arrow like our charm does. Its going to be interestingto see what they really are.I'll go back to lurking. Good luck fighting this fight. I'd rather put the effort into getting the beta "Final" Mana Flow AA back than worry with these things right now. I never see 10% power even after getting a combat rez on a raid.Life as a coercer. Its a rollercoaster. Up and down and around, but downhill to a stop at the end.

Mandelbro · 03-02-2006, 03:15 AM

I don't want a flamewar either. We're both on the same side, after all. :smileywink:I don't think they'll make the charm damage master level. You're right, we won't know until someone gets one. Hopefully someone who will know how to use it and which mob to charm of the type they got.If your guess is right, and they do make it master level for damage, I'll be sorely dissapointed. However, I'll still take our spell over a LORE charm any day. What are you going to do? Run back into town every 30 minutes? It sucks about as much as the Neco's getting our class defining spell for 0 conc with the penelty of theirs only castable on undead. Now everyone can charm, but with limitations.

Aranieq · 03-02-2006, 08:07 PM

I know this will not be taken very well but... I'm really not as upset over this after my initial feelings of "betrayal" have subsided.

It's lore first of all so it's only real purpose is for a either as a solo, for specific quests, loot mob target, or raid potential will lilky get it nerfed. My charm is better at M1, and Since I now have the option to hold 1 uber pet and 1 status pet i've allready considered the potentials for certain nameds ive wanted to take solo... I mean there is a 50% rez.. and a 6s power regen one as well.. they are all lore and no trade. I say leave them and see how it effects coercer gameplay first.. if we start getting a lot of " we allready have coercer in a can" then yeah I'm likly to be upset again but I just think there are so many other things they can do for coercer improvment rather than nerfing an All/All LORE purchased ability...

Please don't get me wrong i was so sad and outraged initially.. i even passed on my hurt to my GL who is a coercer lover for sure.. but after a few days to calm down and really think about the implementation and ability to use theese to MY GUILDS goals and of course my own evil and hatefull Dark elf goals.. well I'm just not that upset anymore.

I'm a Coercer.. no one can controll a chaotic situation as well as I can in the game, It remains no other has the power over creatures that I possess (even if its on a big picture level), No one can make a heroic mob moosh and jello as well as I can, nor controll a groups agro in either dirrection... I am still the goddess of controll and hate, so I'm still happy with my coercer about this issue.

Nuhus · 03-03-2006, 03:33 AM

Just a note, Lyndro answered some concerns here:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=7963#M7963

So, I think it's not gonna be that big a thing.

Dr_Cyr · 03-03-2006, 04:14 AM

Yup.The Dev confirmed that the duration was too long, that it woudl take 3 conc slots, and that it had the Patened Coercer Rand-O-Matic charm break, and that it was overpowered.And that they were going to "fix" that.Now that the risk of using it is the same one coercers take on when making a charmed pet, its not that bad.OK, I want feign death in a bottle next, please! And after that, I want a conj pet, and Ice Comet. Lore, 1 use. Thats fine with the status and gold cost staying where they are.hah hah!

03-01-2006, 08:34 PM	#2
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	You won't get an answer for your question, as you're asking for a dev response, this is a no-no As for charm, wow, you're complaining about something you can only use once, and can only have 1 of them on you, not to mention you die, it's over with. Plus I bet the damage capability of the pet when charmed with that compared to a M1 charm are going to be a LOT less, so it's meaningless.Uhm, Illusionists have more than 2 illusions. In fact I have 5 self-illusions, and 2 group illusions, but whatever, they're fluff who cares. The real way the illusions work are the spells. Read the combat spam when you cast a spell on a mob, and you'll see what an Illusionist is called an Illusionist.They said they're looking into our raiding, and quit just jabbing at them rather than bringing up options for them to consider. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

03-01-2006, 11:13 PM	#4
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	Kepic048 wrote:Yea I am complaining about something you can use only once cause you can keep buying it and use it over and over. Also it's a lot better then our master charm with better regen. Plus my friend is a lvl 64 illusionist i know all about illusionists. Go complain about a post somewhere else like you illusionist forum How the hell do you know it's better than Master Charm? Is there some magical Level 50 guild out there already? Until you've used it, you can't compare it. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

03-02-2006, 12:37 AM	#6
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	Dr_Cyrus wrote:Go look at the merchant and then look at the M1 spell Pinski.It is better. More power regen. More health regen. Longer duration. They've psoted screen shots of the spell and the purchasable charms.Care to admit you're wrong? Just because something has better regen, doesn't mean the mob itself will be better at doing damage. Big deal it has longer duration, are you sure it doesn't include an early break feature? Are you sure this charm isn't like the troubador charm? Are you sure the charmed pet will even come close to doing the same amount of damage as a Master Charm? You're basing your facts on opinions, not on facts. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

03-02-2006, 08:07 PM	#12
Aranieq EQ2BM Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: EST (Boston Area) Posts: 590	I know this will not be taken very well but... I'm really not as upset over this after my initial feelings of "betrayal" have subsided. It's lore first of all so it's only real purpose is for a either as a solo, for specific quests, loot mob target, or raid potential will lilky get it nerfed. My charm is better at M1, and Since I now have the option to hold 1 uber pet and 1 status pet i've allready considered the potentials for certain nameds ive wanted to take solo... I mean there is a 50% rez.. and a 6s power regen one as well.. they are all lore and no trade. I say leave them and see how it effects coercer gameplay first.. if we start getting a lot of " we allready have coercer in a can" then yeah I'm likly to be upset again but I just think there are so many other things they can do for coercer improvment rather than nerfing an All/All LORE purchased ability... Please don't get me wrong i was so sad and outraged initially.. i even passed on my hurt to my GL who is a coercer lover for sure.. but after a few days to calm down and really think about the implementation and ability to use theese to MY GUILDS goals and of course my own evil and hatefull Dark elf goals.. well I'm just not that upset anymore. I'm a Coercer.. no one can controll a chaotic situation as well as I can in the game, It remains no other has the power over creatures that I possess (even if its on a big picture level), No one can make a heroic mob moosh and jello as well as I can, nor controll a groups agro in either dirrection... I am still the goddess of controll and hate, so I'm still happy with my coercer about this issue. __________________

03-03-2006, 03:33 AM	#13
Nuhus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,480	Just a note, Lyndro answered some concerns here: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=7963#M7963 So, I think it's not gonna be that big a thing. __________________ SOE will kill off EQ2 before it would naturally die.. 11/10/2004-9/19/2010 - for me

03-01-2006, 08:26 PM	#1
Kepic0 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New york Posts: 66	Coercer, If a coercer is expose to coerce things to fight for it. Shouldn't the Coercers charm be better then a mear potion you can buy ? Shouldn't the potion be able to break and our charm not be able to break ? Illusionist, Shouldn't an illusionist have more then two illusions or even illusions that help him fight in battle? Why can anyone buy illusion stones to change there illusion but yet an illusionist is restricted to two? Raiding ( epic targets )... Why are enchanters so useless in raids to the point we can only use a max of 6-10 spells useable in raids out of our 20-23 spells we have ? Overall Why is the enchanter class in general so restricted that our core functions in the game are useless on epic targets and our main functions are better when being bought? Explain this to me and I would be greatly appreciated....

03-01-2006, 09:58 PM	#3
Kepic0 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New york Posts: 66	Yea I am complaining about something you can use only once cause you can keep buying it and use it over and over. Also it's a lot better then our master charm with better regen. Plus my friend is a lvl 64 illusionist i know all about illusionists. Go complain about a post somewhere else like you illusionist forum

03-02-2006, 12:26 AM	#5
Dr_Cyr Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 65	Go look at the merchant and then look at the M1 spell Pinski.It is better. More power regen. More health regen. Longer duration. They've psoted screen shots of the spell and the purchasable charms.Care to admit you're wrong?

03-02-2006, 01:43 AM	#7
Mandelbro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 235	Dr_Cyrus wrote:Go look at the merchant and then look at the M1 spell Pinski.It is better. More power regen. More health regen. Longer duration. They've psoted screen shots of the spell and the purchasable charms.Care to admit you're wrong? HAHAHAHAHA. If you're basing your argument on the regen and duration, then you need to change your perspective on what makes charm useful. With M1 charm, I never have problems with regen rates. Damage and usefulness is the key here, and there is NO WAY that a purchased item will provide the firepower to a charmed mob like a Master 1 spell. Sure, a longer duration is better, but if I have a POS mob for half an hour vs. a pet that turns me into a demi-god on the battle field for 10 minutes - and then recast - I'll take demi-god, please.Care to admit that you don't know what you're talking about?

03-02-2006, 02:07 AM	#8
Murdaben Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 69	Look at it.Coompare it to the level 47 (same level!) Master 1 Dominate. I have it, and compared both. And I have the Adept 1 61st as well. The 61 Adept 1 is pretty sad because the new Sky mobs seem to have higher resists so even Adept 1 sucks at these levels. I wasted a few gold buying that. Dont bother upgrading unless you have somone making the Adept 3 or you can find a Master at a good price.Back on topic: Are you telling me they jack up all the stats and then make it not do damage like an Master?Its fabled IIRC, and that means it will most likely work like a Master 1 down the line.And Yes I am a coercer, and I came up the hard way under the old rules. going back to the short charm, which we all used as a spare mez. I started playing my coercer as a main again instead of a raid buffbot a few weeks before the expansion, and over in Beta, and Im still pretty peeved at the mess they made out of what was a perfectly good AA, Mana Flow. There have been some grat posts on that here. Taking a look at these charms. They are the same level as Dominate, have better stats than Dominate at Master 1, and are rated "Fabled" - that makes them a master level spell in all respects. Go search the broker for "Fabled" level spell scrolls and see what comes up. So its mos probable that these are Master 1 type damage. They would not spend enough time to do much else, and they seldomconsider effects on coercers for anyting. Or have you not learned that by now? After all they did not even bother to test the substitute AA they trhew in at the last minute instead of the one we tested and liked in Beta.This is Sonly Online we are talking about, or have you not been a corcer for the past year and a half? How much designer and developer feedback have you seen here? How many unworked bugs are there still around after months of complaints? How long did it take them to do the class revamp? How long did it take them to admit they blew the Charm spells to begin in that revamp with by having the resists cranked in the LU that they redid the class with?Get your head out of ~~your a~~ the sand. A Coercer pet makes you a Demigod? Drugs do bad things to your brain, dont do drugs anymore mmkay? Any pet you get that makes you a DemiGod is a) Not going to stay charmed for 10 minutes on a regular basis and b) not likely to be all that common and c) not usable on raids due to the 3 conc slots and the random brreak that can wipe a raid.You're the one that obviously has not had a coercer for long. IMHO the OP was right. We will see once somone actually has a guild high level enough to buy one and test it. Looking for Halcyon Affinity or Eidolon or Bekwen on Antonia Bayle, they will probably have the real story. And I bet you will be just as gone as you are wrong on this. Demigod - thanks for the laugh though, that was funny, in a crackheaded sort of way. Now if you care to address the facts, I'll accept your apology. As for the OP, he's a flamewarrior. Ive seen his posts. But it doesnt mean he is wrong, nor that a fanboi like you are right. Message Edited by Murdabenne on 03-01-200601:33 PM

03-02-2006, 02:28 AM	#9
Mandelbro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 235	I've been a Coercer since release. Here's your crack pipe back.

03-02-2006, 02:57 AM	#10
Murdaben Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 69	OK no need for me to pull this into a flamewar. I stand by my words concerning the possible facts of the charm. the rest of the stuff is more message board back and forth.I'm still willing to bet they put the charms at Master level for damage though. That seems typical of the lack of attention to detail the developers have when it comes to coercers.Then again, lack of attention can be a good thing when it comes to Devs and EQ2. I guess we can ask rangers how they feel about the proc revamp. :smileyvery-happy:One other thing I bet is that if the charms are at Master 1, they will get nerfed back to Adept 1, or else they add in the resist-break or both. If they do not then these would be far too overpowering. Especially if they do not nerf the mob to no-arrow like our charm does. Its going to be interestingto see what they really are.I'll go back to lurking. Good luck fighting this fight. I'd rather put the effort into getting the beta "Final" Mana Flow AA back than worry with these things right now. I never see 10% power even after getting a combat rez on a raid.Life as a coercer. Its a rollercoaster. Up and down and around, but downhill to a stop at the end.

03-02-2006, 03:15 AM	#11
Mandelbro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 235	I don't want a flamewar either. We're both on the same side, after all. :smileywink:I don't think they'll make the charm damage master level. You're right, we won't know until someone gets one. Hopefully someone who will know how to use it and which mob to charm of the type they got.If your guess is right, and they do make it master level for damage, I'll be sorely dissapointed. However, I'll still take our spell over a LORE charm any day. What are you going to do? Run back into town every 30 minutes? It sucks about as much as the Neco's getting our class defining spell for 0 conc with the penelty of theirs only castable on undead. Now everyone can charm, but with limitations.

03-03-2006, 04:14 AM	#14
Dr_Cyr Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 65	Yup.The Dev confirmed that the duration was too long, that it woudl take 3 conc slots, and that it had the Patened Coercer Rand-O-Matic charm break, and that it was overpowered.And that they were going to "fix" that.Now that the risk of using it is the same one coercers take on when making a charmed pet, its not that bad.OK, I want feign death in a bottle next, please! And after that, I want a conj pet, and Ice Comet. Lore, 1 use. Thats fine with the status and gold cost staying where they are.hah hah!