Guild hall feedback (several merged threads)

[Kethaera]

Yeah, I was planning on a "chapel" area, too. Was quite disappointed when I went and tried to place an altar.

[Wastura]

I'm suprised it hasn't been said yet, but uh, what?

The guilds that require time sinks in order to stay in the game can easily afford the T3 guild halls and will waste maybe a hour decorating it before going to raid, while the guilds whose members are woefully dedicated to the game will not see one for 2-3 expansions based on the current rates of inflation.

Let me emphasize that point: The guilds that need a time sink will find that 1000p cost 500p amenities and 15p per week a joke while the guilds full of carpenters, woodworkers, alchemists role players who love spending time in these endeavors will not be able to for 14-24 months when they've become an obsolete idea.

Now let me just say before the first "hardcore raider" decides to take this LFG's place, that 8 months ago my story might not have been the same. I retired my main and rolled up on a new server, cut back drastically on my raid time (from 30-38 hours per week) to 4 hours in order to work my new job. While the hardcore raider feels like this new shiny toy, these guild halls, are something to be earned, something they are entitled to, something that would be demeaned by the presence of us non-committed, you are wrong. And let me tell you why.

Something to be earned, yep, you're right. But how is a massively expensive item a merit of earned? Wealth is a by-product of hard work sure, but there is something that dispropotionately takes place between casual and hardcore in the RoK expansion. Why, I cannot say, prior to this the repair costs were often enough to keep the raiders equal with the casual, sometimes worse off. I remember running Labs and taking patterns so that I could sell my current piece and make a new one in order to pay repairs. At the launch of RoK, I had over 400p in the first two months of RoK. My character now, also 80 and in the RoK expansion, has not earned nearly this ammount.

A further example, when I bought my mythical, I jokingly told the guild leader I was buying from that I was handing over my life savings as I gave him the 200p. I had actually been saving everything I had earned since level 1 apart from repair costs, a set of incarnadine armor and a 32% run speed mount. He responded, "Haha, yeah I don't really need the money either. It's like, 2.7% of the cash I have in the bank right now." I thought surely his mathematics were off, but he told me he had over 7000p. I didn't believe him until he showed me via trade 6,324p. Okay, maybe a rare occassion, but this particular guild isn't #1 on the server. In fact, it just qualifies in the top 5, and the next 5 below it aren't far behind.

I made a character on the test.copy multiple times (before I turned over my 200p) and basically duped me cash enough to check out the guild halls. When I clicked visit at the bell, guess how many of those guilds already had a T3 guild hall?

There wasn't a quest, there wasn't a single node harvested. Let's all point and laugh at the idiots with Maj'Dul houses.

So far as something you're entitled to, well sure. I'm betting you guys have earned the right to have the best as soon as the newest best is available. But in a game that imitates reality (to an extent economically) why don't the carpenters have the ability to do 1000 combines and knock 100p off the costs. Seriously, if I were able to build my own home, why would I overpay someone else to do it. Should not a guild of dedicated individuals be able to do quests and crafting and writs and whatnot in order to earn these things? I say this because of the spires to the overrealm are INSIDE guildhalls. The spires we crafters worked hard on to obtain, are a mere PR raid away. (PR isn't hard, and the guys clearing it have been clearing it so often for so long that they can afford to put their split in for a couple weeks while the rest of us are using our half-cleared PR run to finance our half cleared Thuuga instances.

Speaking of amenities, you dropped the prices on the T1 and T2 guild halls. Spectacular, except that wanted amenities costs anywhere from 1% to 200% of the cost of the T1. The best amenities mind you.

SOE has created an environment where the rich get richer while the poor become poorer. And it is in this aspect alone that they have truely achieved any semblance of real life. The guild hall amenities that provide a solid edge over the general population will allow this gap to grow as they can move more swiftly to raid engagements, contested mobs, nameds, etc while the poor are forced to fight against this tide to catch up. Similarly, but near tangent, they provide overpowered items that the powerful abuse to obtain more powerful items, and when the overpowered items are nerfed, the formerly powerful no longer need them because of their achievements using the overpowered. And those that didn't have this then are left with foam covered bats trying to take swings at tree trunks.

In my house I have a big screen, $4000, 2 $2000 computers and, what.... a fridge, a washer and dryer. Regardless, a drop in the bucket to the $110,000 house cost. Total up my bills, my credit cards, gas, food, my EQ2 subscription, and it's still nothing compared to the cost of the house. Somehow amenities are more expensive?

I'm personally waiting for the poor newb that saves up and finally gets a place, sees the amenity cost, keeps on trucking and gets them, and then sees the upkeep costs and comes over here to say, "SOE YOU ARE WRONG."

Not to harp on SOE, but seriously, has this issue even once been adressed? And if so, why was this discounted. I'm seriously having a  hard time finding the logic in all this.

[Ashlian]

There was a huge thread, I can't even tell you how long it was....this was addressed endlessly. I even got a personal message from a dev because I posted so many times regarding this very thing. Amazingly, the cost of amenities WAS cut down as well as tier 1 and 2 guild hall initial purchase prices and upkeep costs on both.

I still agree, though, completely.....my boyfriend's guild is devoting one PR raid a MONTH to the upkeep....my guild has just enough raiders we need to devote every PR raid we do weekly's profits to the Tier 3 guildhall once we get it. That still burns me....I honestly don't see that raid guilds should get such an advantage over fluff content. On the other hand, at least it's somewhat lower....the initial prices were hideous.

[Qandor]

Chand@Guk wrote:

SOE has created an environment where the rich get richer while the poor become poorer.

I'm sure they apprecaite your 200pp donation towards their hall or did SoE make you do that?

[Wastura]

Pay attention, that's entirely the point.

[Zkinea]

Like most of you I went through sticker shock when the prices of the guild halls and amenities were first released. I am one of the leaders of a family guild that worked very hard to get to level 80. Our fairly large guild is a mixture of people who like to quest, group and raid but we also have tons of tradeskillers. We have saved money in our guild bank since day one and had about 350 plat when the guild halls were announced.

We did not give up on the idea of having the T3 guild hall with all the cool amenities because frankly we have worked very hard doing writ contests, tradeskill writs, weekly courts raids, and many more things to keep on leveling. I put out a plea on our forums for donations to reach our goal of 1400 plat. We now have 1150 plat and I truly expect we will have the full amount when we need it. We have a great guild of generous people.

I guess I just wanted people to see that the T3 guild hall can be obtainable by family guilds and not all level 80 guilds are raid guilds. It seemed like a daunting task when the prices were released and we almost gave up on the idea but we will be in a T3 guild hall and will have the amenities and decorating done before too long! Hope the rest of you get your dreams fulfilled as well.

[Anordil]

Where were you several weeks ago when the smaller guilds were raising Cain about the costs?

At any rate, my guild is perfectly capable of affording the purchase price and upkeep of the amenities. And we don't raid as a guild. In fact, none of us are what you'd call 'hard-core raiders'.

And there are, on a very good day, nine of us actively playing.

We also don't need all of these 'must have' amenities'. And that, I think, is the difference between us. None of these amenities are must haves, they are (every single last one of them) fluff. If I want to port to the Overrealm, I'll schlepp myself out to Antonica and port. Why the heck would I want to pay a single copper piece for the service when I can take a few minutes, enjoy a pleasant griffon ride followed by a lovely gallop, in order to be ported to KoS for free?

After re-reading your post, who cares if the raid guild members get x, y, or z? It's not a matter of keeping up with the Joneses and if they're all running around with their mythicals, great! I'm happy for them. But it doesn't impact my game in the slightest. /shrug

[BleemTeam]

A single solitary player can make a few hundred plat a month not killing a thing.

If you mean to tell me that 24+ casual players would NEVER and I mean NEVER see a t3 guild hall, then you are a whiney solo player that feels you deserve the world on a silver platter while standing in the welfare line.

If you want it, earn it. Stop complaining. Sure raid guilds can raid and earn platinum in a metal chest. So? If you're not a raider, make your platinum via other avenues. It IS doable. Harvesting, Crafting, Grouping, LoN Loot Cards sell really nicely, etc. There are a multitude of other ways to earn platinum.

I think Mikk even posted around here that he's earned Thousands of plat just HIMSELF crafting...

The prices never needed to be fixed. The most prestigious and wealthiest guilds SHOULD have the T3 guild hall anyways. Because the guild with the most Status should have the most Wealth. T8 Rush orders anyone? 5p and 50k status every like hour? 1 Person. Plat is so easy to make in EQ2.

Simply saying "I deserve a guild hall because I play the game" .... Is getting out of hand.

[Wastura]

This coming from a guy on the bazaar server. I bet you could get a few thousand plat only loggin in 2 minutes a month so go find an exchange server only forum and retort there, the majority of the player base is not allowed to buy their plat. And because of this type of economy, there isn't a "standard" live server example there for you to check on this "earning 1000's a month" line of ...... reasoning. You don't do it, but the guy you're buying from cheap to sell expensively later is.

Didn't ask for a silver platter, I simply stated that the guilds that need the time sinks aren't getting it and the guilds that are willing to work for theirs are reduced to the same ol' same ol' to raise the massive funds necessary.

So far as earning money apart from killing, tell me how. There are a scant few people earning huge ammounts of cash, reason being is they've found ways to manipulate others into recieving their cash, via legitimate or otherwise means. There is a disparity because it takes coin to earn coin and the wealthy are taking from the non-wealthy. The disparity grows, which leads to the singular biggest problem both Everquest and now seemingly EQ2 have ->

They've created an atmosphere in which new players feel either overwhelmed or in-capable of meeting the criteria necessary to enjoy the majority of the content. Is it true? To each his own, but gaining 50 levels certainly seems more feasible than 80/140 with a 80 guild and enough cash to have that T3.

Seriously, is it that rediculous to ask that the players who want to "Build" their guild halls to earn it as opposed to purchasing to "earn" it be allowed to?

My post was originally in the homeshow, and I would like to point out that there is a certain sense of urgency for us there. For the decorators, the inattainability of the guild halls is a horse of a different color. If we don't have a way to recieve one, we're not elligible for the guild hall decorating contests. If our guild already has two-three decorators, it's slightly unreasonable to build our own guild, level it solo and then raise the funds necessary to purchase, keep up with our own upkeep etc. Truth is, that merely changes the guild halls into large player housing.

That is the only reason I can imagine they created this "price." But wouldn't enough particular quests, writs etc work just as well?

[BleemTeam]

Way to be mature and take "buying plat" into account. /clap

Create a level 1 in Darklight Wood, and kill endlessly for hours and see how many adept I and treasured you get. (No coin needed to kill level 1's) Ok? Now, sell those low leveled treasured items to transmuters. Sell the "8c" loot from corpses to the broker. Rinse and Repeat and you will have a small amount of coin to "have money to make money"

You just gotta do it. You can't complain if you haven't tried EVERYTHING to make coin. The game is simple. TBH I don't know how people don't have coin. The Bazaar server has nothing to do with YOU making coin on YOUR server. I can do it on any server. You can too.

If that seems to hard for you... lets take into account the reason "Purpose" of the Antonica Guild hall is even there. Antonia wants a coastal fortress and only wants her best of citizens to guard it. I'm not saying that a bunch of low level crafters should "not" have the right to live here, but, in spirit of Why its there.... Her bravest and best adventurers who have served her many many times (Prismatic, Fyr'Un, Soulfire and Mythicals) Have earned her trust to guard said Coastal Fortress.

Color it any way you want too... But frankly not EVERYONE should be able to have a T3 Hall.

[Vonotar]

Cool it already, personally my own two-person guild (me and the other half, and she spends most of her time on characters in other RP guilds) will be launching a level 30 Guild Hall in South Freeport, the upkeep is perfectly reasonable even given the fact that I will have to bear most of that myself.If any real guilds out there think that guild halls are out of their reach... well they obviously just don't have dedicated enough members...Now if the question is, can the average small guild run a Guild Island... well the answer is obviously no, not without serious effort on behalf of the membership.  But thats entirely the point, if you can afford everything from day one, what do you have to work towards?Although i'm not entirely surprised at the attitude of some people, given that (if there was a choice) a sizable number of people would choose to create new characters that start at level 80...

[katalmach]

I have no problem with the intial costs of guild halls, but I very much dislike the idea of a weekly upkeep. I think that evil guild halls should cost less upkeep than the good ones. Freeport and Neriak both have a tradition of using slave labour, so why am I paying my hirelings the same that the people in Qeynos pay theirs? I should only have to pay just enough to keep them fed (and gruel and water is cheap).I also don't see why I'm paying upkeep for things such as the supply depot. It's a box! I've got lots of storage boxes in my real life house, and none of them have cost me a penny since the initial cost of purchasing them. Why am I paying weekly upkeep for statues? Surely they only need maintenance once a year or so (for which I would use an army of frogloks that I captured during my adventures - and once they're done polishing up my statues, I'll kill them, loot their corpses and sell the drops to the vendor. See, I should be making a PROFIT from these statues, not a loss!). Why am I paying the banker, the vendor and the mender? They should be happy that an important person such as myself allows them to do business within my halls. They should be paying ME rent, as a matter of fact. This is actually serious feedback, believe it or not. I may have a lot of money in game - but that doesn't mean I want to spend it frivolously. It bothers me that I'm paying upkeep for things that logically should cost me nothing, or worse, should make me money. It bothers me that I have to pay my employees a decent wage when I live in a city where slavery is the accepted way of doing things. Guild halls should be a reward to guilds that have worked hard to get to where they are, a nice place where they can meet up and relax. Guild halls shouldn't be a burden upon its members, something they have to log in and grind plat for every week. The weekly upkeep is a great way of sucking  the soul and fun out of guild halls, and personall y I think it should be scrapped altogether. I was  a very ambitious guild patron once upon a time, when such things mattered, so I know what it's like when a game bec omes more like work than, well, play. It's just no t a good idea.

[Qandor]

Zkinea@Najena wrote:

Like most of you I went through sticker shock when the prices of the guild halls and amenities were first released. I am one of the leaders of a family guild that worked very hard to get to level 80. Our fairly large guild is a mixture of people who like to quest, group and raid but we also have tons of tradeskillers. We have saved money in our guild bank since day one and had about 350 plat when the guild halls were announced.

We did not give up on the idea of having the T3 guild hall with all the cool amenities because frankly we have worked very hard doing writ contests, tradeskill writs, weekly courts raids, and many more things to keep on leveling. I put out a plea on our forums for donations to reach our goal of 1400 plat. We now have 1150 plat and I truly expect we will have the full amount when we need it. We have a great guild of generous people.

I guess I just wanted people to see that the T3 guild hall can be obtainable by family guilds and not all level 80 guilds are raid guilds. It seemed like a daunting task when the prices were released and we almost gave up on the idea but we will be in a T3 guild hall and will have the amenities and decorating done before too long! Hope the rest of you get your dreams fulfilled as well.

Absolutely right. It is quite within reach of many guilds if they are willing to put forth some effort to obtain it. We are an 8 account guild and can easily afford a fully fleshed out T2 hall and could in fact afford the T3 if we had the guild level to qulaify for it (we are only 61) and the desire to have such a large place for such a small guild.

[Ashlian]

BleemTeam wrote:

A single solitary player can make a few hundred plat a month not killing a thing.

If you mean to tell me that 24+ casual players would NEVER and I mean NEVER see a t3 guild hall, then you are a whiney solo player that feels you deserve the world on a silver platter while standing in the welfare line.

If you want it, earn it. Stop complaining. Sure raid guilds can raid and earn platinum in a metal chest. So? If you're not a raider, make your platinum via other avenues. It IS doable. Harvesting, Crafting, Grouping, LoN Loot Cards sell really nicely, etc. There are a multitude of other ways to earn platinum.

I think Mikk even posted around here that he's earned Thousands of plat just HIMSELF crafting...

The prices never needed to be fixed. The most prestigious and wealthiest guilds SHOULD have the T3 guild hall anyways. Because the guild with the most Status should have the most Wealth. T8 Rush orders anyone? 5p and 50k status every like hour? 1 Person. Plat is so easy to make in EQ2.

Simply saying "I deserve a guild hall because I play the game" .... Is getting out of hand.

Status doesn't equal wealth for many of us. And frankly we often enjoy doing other things besides harvesting and crafting and mainly do those things to make things the guild will use, not sell them off for money that has to be funnelled into the guild hall, thereby depriving members of rares and masters etc, that they could have used. Raid guilds on the other hand, get to do exactly what they have wanted to do all along and therefore gain by far the most benefit from this setup. Raids get them large amounts of status AND money, and while other players can certainly get that, most of them have to devote considerably more time to the effort. That's my only complaint. If you're a level 80 guild member, you should be expected to provide the same status or money toward your guild whether you are in a raid guild or not.

What's the disparity is the ease with which the raider can provide those things versus the non raider. If your guild has gotten to level 80, they've already proved they'll work. I'm sick of hearing people say we don't want to work.

I'd just like it if the things that I did like mentor low level players in groups got me nice chunks of status and plat in the way that a raid does. How about 10k status and 10g every time someone I mentor levels? The time and effort put into helping guildies is more than equivalent to killing raid mobs. It's just a different game focus.

[Qandor]

Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:

BleemTeam wrote:

A single solitary player can make a few hundred plat a month not killing a thing.

If you mean to tell me that 24+ casual players would NEVER and I mean NEVER see a t3 guild hall, then you are a whiney solo player that feels you deserve the world on a silver platter while standing in the welfare line.

If you want it, earn it. Stop complaining. Sure raid guilds can raid and earn platinum in a metal chest. So? If you're not a raider, make your platinum via other avenues. It IS doable. Harvesting, Crafting, Grouping, LoN Loot Cards sell really nicely, etc. There are a multitude of other ways to earn platinum.

I think Mikk even posted around here that he's earned Thousands of plat just HIMSELF crafting...

The prices never needed to be fixed. The most prestigious and wealthiest guilds SHOULD have the T3 guild hall anyways. Because the guild with the most Status should have the most Wealth. T8 Rush orders anyone? 5p and 50k status every like hour? 1 Person. Plat is so easy to make in EQ2.

Simply saying "I deserve a guild hall because I play the game" .... Is getting out of hand.

Status doesn't equal wealth for many of us. And frankly we often enjoy doing other things besides harvesting and crafting and mainly do those things to make things the guild will use, not sell them off for money that has to be funnelled into the guild hall, thereby depriving members of rares and masters etc, that they could have used. Raid guilds on the other hand, get to do exactly what they have wanted to do all along and therefore gain by far the most benefit from this setup. Raids get them large amounts of status AND money, and while other players can certainly get that, most of them have to devote considerably more time to the effort. That's my only complaint. If you're a level 80 guild member, you should be expected to provide the same status or money toward your guild whether you are in a raid guild or not.

What's the disparity is the ease with which the raider can provide those things versus the non raider. If your guild has gotten to level 80, they've already proved they'll work. I'm sick of hearing people say we don't want to work.

I'd just like it if the things that I did like mentor low level players in groups got me nice chunks of status and plat in the way that a raid does. How about 10k status and 10g every time someone I mentor levels? The time and effort put into helping guildies is more than equivalent to killing raid mobs. It's just a different game focus.

Ok, I'm not a raider and I certainly would be the most unlikely candidate ever to go to bat for them but here is the problem I am having with your statements.

You do not want to or cannot raid - fine. I fall in the do not want to camp.

You do not want to harvest or sell things that other players may want for plat.

Although you haven't specifically mentioned it in your post, I assume you do not want to run writs of any kind, whether they be adventure or crafting writs, because that is "work" and you do not want a "second job".

You get status and some loot, for running instances but you do not want to run those either I suppose?

What do you want to get cash and status for, chatting in guild?

Your mentor idea falls flat on its face since it will be abused all to heck. "Hey guys, about ready to ding 23, want to all run out here and mentor real quick to pick up some gold and status'?

Everytime I have seen these posts, and someone has offered ways to gain status or coin in answer, those complaining always come back with, they do not want to do that. So what is it exactly you would be willing to do that could possibly earn status and cash? I keep getting the impression that what some folks want is to just log in and that should suffice.

[Daysy]

Ohiv wrote:

Sydne@Befallen wrote:

Any news on whether or not the GUILD Market broker will go live with guild halls, later or has it been scrapped all together? Our guild was really looking forward to being able to sell items to the guild easily at cost, such as potions for raids, food/drink, poisons. For one it would give us space in our guild bank for other things. For another, it would go along with the family spirit we have in our guild of supporting each other. Thanks for any information.

While I like you would LOVE to have this, from what I understand this isn't happening till the 2nd or so round for guild hall amentities. When it will actually be implemented all i can say with certainty is "Soon"(tm).

This is extremely disappointing. All the other stuff is available elsewhere. The guild broker is the only item we really need, because there is no way to increase the size of the miniscule guild bank and it's no fun having to go rummage through the banks of my entire family every time to find stuff that would be in the guild bank, if there were space.

[habby2]

Chand@Guk wrote:

I'm suprised it hasn't been said yet, but uh, what?

The guilds that require time sinks in order to stay in the game can easily afford the T3 guild halls and will waste maybe a hour decorating it before going to raid, while the guilds whose members are woefully dedicated to the game will not see one for 2-3 expansions based on the current rates of inflation.

Let me emphasize that point: The guilds that need a time sink will find that 1000p cost 500p amenities and 15p per week a joke while the guilds full of carpenters, woodworkers, alchemists role players who love spending time in these endeavors will not be able to for 14-24 months when they've become an obsolete idea.

Now let me just say before the first "hardcore raider" decides to take this LFG's place, that 8 months ago my story might not have been the same. I retired my main and rolled up on a new server, cut back drastically on my raid time (from 30-38 hours per week) to 4 hours in order to work my new job. While the hardcore raider feels like this new shiny toy, these guild halls, are something to be earned, something they are entitled to, something that would be demeaned by the presence of us non-committed, you are wrong. And let me tell you why.

Something to be earned, yep, you're right. But how is a massively expensive item a merit of earned? Wealth is a by-product of hard work sure, but there is something that dispropotionately takes place between casual and hardcore in the RoK expansion. Why, I cannot say, prior to this the repair costs were often enough to keep the raiders equal with the casual, sometimes worse off. I remember running Labs and taking patterns so that I could sell my current piece and make a new one in order to pay repairs. At the launch of RoK, I had over 400p in the first two months of RoK. My character now, also 80 and in the RoK expansion, has not earned nearly this ammount.

A further example, when I bought my mythical, I jokingly told the guild leader I was buying from that I was handing over my life savings as I gave him the 200p. I had actually been saving everything I had earned since level 1 apart from repair costs, a set of incarnadine armor and a 32% run speed mount. He responded, "Haha, yeah I don't really need the money either. It's like, 2.7% of the cash I have in the bank right now." I thought surely his mathematics were off, but he told me he had over 7000p. I didn't believe him until he showed me via trade 6,324p. Okay, maybe a rare occassion, but this particular guild isn't #1 on the server. In fact, it just qualifies in the top 5, and the next 5 below it aren't far behind.

I made a character on the test.copy multiple times (before I turned over my 200p) and basically duped me cash enough to check out the guild halls. When I clicked visit at the bell, guess how many of those guilds already had a T3 guild hall?

There wasn't a quest, there wasn't a single node harvested. Let's all point and laugh at the idiots with Maj'Dul houses.

So far as something you're entitled to, well sure. I'm betting you guys have earned the right to have the best as soon as the newest best is available. But in a game that imitates reality (to an extent economically) why don't the carpenters have the ability to do 1000 combines and knock 100p off the costs. Seriously, if I were able to build my own home, why would I overpay someone else to do it. Should not a guild of dedicated individuals be able to do quests and crafting and writs and whatnot in order to earn these things? I say this because of the spires to the overrealm are INSIDE guildhalls. The spires we crafters worked hard on to obtain, are a mere PR raid away. (PR isn't hard, and the guys clearing it have been clearing it so often for so long that they can afford to put their split in for a couple weeks while the rest of us are using our half-cleared PR run to finance our half cleared Thuuga instances.

Speaking of amenities, you dropped the prices on the T1 and T2 guild halls. Spectacular, except that wanted amenities costs anywhere from 1% to 200% of the cost of the T1. The best amenities mind you.

SOE has created an environment where the rich get richer while the poor become poorer. And it is in this aspect alone that they have truely achieved any semblance of real life. The guild hall amenities that provide a solid edge over the general population will allow this gap to grow as they can move more swiftly to raid engagements, contested mobs, nameds, etc while the poor are forced to fight against this tide to catch up. Similarly, but near tangent, they provide overpowered items that the powerful abuse to obtain more powerful items, and when the overpowered items are nerfed, the formerly powerful no longer need them because of their achievements using the overpowered. And those that didn't have this then are left with foam covered bats trying to take swings at tree trunks.

In my house I have a big screen, $4000, 2 $2000 computers and, what.... a fridge, a washer and dryer. Regardless, a drop in the bucket to the $110,000 house cost. Total up my bills, my credit cards, gas, food, my EQ2 subscription, and it's still nothing compared to the cost of the house. Somehow amenities are more expensive?

I'm personally waiting for the poor newb that saves up and finally gets a place, sees the amenity cost, keeps on trucking and gets them, and then sees the upkeep costs and comes over here to say, "SOE YOU ARE WRONG."

Not to harp on SOE, but seriously, has this issue even once been adressed? And if so, why was this discounted. I'm seriously having a hard time finding the logic in all this.

You purchased your mythical and now are complaining about the price of guild halls????????   You made your choice as to what was important to you, now you want everything given to you????

[Bratface]

Qandor wrote:

Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:

BleemTeam wrote:

A single solitary player can make a few hundred plat a month not killing a thing.

If you mean to tell me that 24+ casual players would NEVER and I mean NEVER see a t3 guild hall, then you are a whiney solo player that feels you deserve the world on a silver platter while standing in the welfare line.

If you want it, earn it. Stop complaining. Sure raid guilds can raid and earn platinum in a metal chest. So? If you're not a raider, make your platinum via other avenues. It IS doable. Harvesting, Crafting, Grouping, LoN Loot Cards sell really nicely, etc. There are a multitude of other ways to earn platinum.

I think Mikk even posted around here that he's earned Thousands of plat just HIMSELF crafting...

The prices never needed to be fixed. The most prestigious and wealthiest guilds SHOULD have the T3 guild hall anyways. Because the guild with the most Status should have the most Wealth. T8 Rush orders anyone? 5p and 50k status every like hour? 1 Person. Plat is so easy to make in EQ2.

Simply saying "I deserve a guild hall because I play the game" .... Is getting out of hand.

Status doesn't equal wealth for many of us. And frankly we often enjoy doing other things besides harvesting and crafting and mainly do those things to make things the guild will use, not sell them off for money that has to be funnelled into the guild hall, thereby depriving members of rares and masters etc, that they could have used. Raid guilds on the other hand, get to do exactly what they have wanted to do all along and therefore gain by far the most benefit from this setup. Raids get them large amounts of status AND money, and while other players can certainly get that, most of them have to devote considerably more time to the effort. That's my only complaint. If you're a level 80 guild member, you should be expected to provide the same status or money toward your guild whether you are in a raid guild or not.

What's the disparity is the ease with which the raider can provide those things versus the non raider. If your guild has gotten to level 80, they've already proved they'll work. I'm sick of hearing people say we don't want to work.

I'd just like it if the things that I did like mentor low level players in groups got me nice chunks of status and plat in the way that a raid does. How about 10k status and 10g every time someone I mentor levels? The time and effort put into helping guildies is more than equivalent to killing raid mobs. It's just a different game focus.

Ok, I'm not a raider and I certainly would be the most unlikely candidate ever to go to bat for them but here is the problem I am having with your statements.

You do not want to or cannot raid - fine. I fall in the do not want to camp.

You do not want to harvest or sell things that other players may want for plat.

Although you haven't specifically mentioned it in your post, I assume you do not want to run writs of any kind, whether they be adventure or crafting writs, because that is "work" and you do not want a "second job".

You get status and some loot, for running instances but you do not want to run those either I suppose?

What do you want to get cash and status for, chatting in guild?

Your mentor idea falls flat on its face since it will be abused all to heck. "Hey guys, about ready to ding 23, want to all run out here and mentor real quick to pick up some gold and status'?

Everytime I have seen these posts, and someone has offered ways to gain status or coin in answer, those complaining always come back with, they do not want to do that. So what is it exactly you would be willing to do that could possibly earn status and cash? I keep getting the impression that what some folks want is to just log in and that should suffice.

I think you missed Ashlians point, it isn't about workign for anything, it's about everyoen who isnt' a raidier having to change the way they play in order to afford a guild hall.The only people these will come effortlessly to are raiders, the majority of which log in for a couple hours a week "just to raid", and that alone will pay for their guild hall and more.As opposed to non-raiders who have to change their playstyle in order to afford a guild hall because nothing gives so much status and plat in so little time as raiding does. I don't mind doing writs or whatever, but having to devote so much more of my playtime to achieve the same goal is unfair, this is a game here not social engineering 101.The mentor thing was another way of saying that the game does not promote or reward social interactions or good efforts/deeds at all, or at least not nearly as they reward raiding. Many of us play this game day in and day out and love it for it's rich content and the social opportunities it provides, but SOE in their infinite wisdom does not provide any incentive to do these things (let alone reward), we do them because of our love of the game, raiders raid for the personal gain, and SOE rewards them enormously for their self-serving and limited playstyle.

[Thicket Tundrabog]

The contention that a casual, non-raiding guild with lots of tradeskillers can't afford a T3 guild house is nonsense. My guild fits that description exactly and we're decorating our T3 guild hall on testcopy server as practise before going live.

A raiding guild can pay off a months worth of rent in one raid. With a 24 person raid, maybe that's 2 hours each? Probably more, but let's go with that. My transmuter and stable of tradeskillers can earn more plat in half the time buying treasured items from the broker, transmuting them, making and selling adornments. This is a fact, because I'm doing it now. If the adornment market dried up, there are at least a dozen other tradeskilling market niches that can be successfully exploited.

I haven't had to earn personal status for awhile, since I've 78 million on my main, and about 30 million more on all of my alts. (sidenote: Kinda annoying to only be able to donate 9,999,999 status points at a time to the escrow account... Lol)

... and of course, there are the rest of my guildmates who contribute plat and status.

Many folks that think they can't afford a guild hall are victims of 'learned helplessness'. They think they can't succeed, and therefore they don't succeed.

[Bratface]

Oakthicket@Permafrost wrote:

My transmuter and stable of tradeskillers can earn more plat in half the time buying treasured items from the broker, transmuting them, making and selling adornments. This is a fact, because I'm doing it now. If the adornment market dried up, there are at least a dozen other tradeskilling market niches that can be successfully exploited.

Let me get this straight.You can buy items from the broker, xmute them, turn that into adornments AND sell all those adornments in less time and make more plat than a guild doing a raid?Throwing them up on the broker doesn't count unless you count the time it takes crap to sell as well. The actual time it takes for them to sell is what counts, not having them up on a broker "ready to buy".If you can do this day in and day out then I want to see your method, cause frankly it doesn't sound possible.

[Albiw]

1000 plat isn't anywhere near as big of a deal as many people think it is - and raiding doesn't mean you're instantly uber-rich compared to everyone else.  Suppose you have a guild with 15 accounts each with one or more tier 8 characters.  If everyone goes out harvesting and comes up with 3 silicate loams per week and sells them each for 3 plat a piece and puts the proceeds toward the guild hall - that is a VERY modest accomplishment.  At the end of the week, each person has 9 plat.  9 x 15 = 135 plat... in one week... and no, 3 silicate loams per week is not going to be very time-consuming.  You'll have your tier 3 guild hall in no time.  If you don't like harvesting, fine... try crafting - I have been pulling in 150-200 plat profit per week since RoK came out (no I'm not going to say how).  If you don't like crafting, you can go out killing mobs and earn a couple plat per day.  Over time and if you work as a team you'll have no trouble getting 1000 plat.  One way or the other yes it will take some effort but yes it is doable.  I really don't know where this "only raiders can afford a guild hall" is coming from - anyone who puts in some effort can afford a guild hall.

[cronar]

After spending a great deal of time running around the tier three hall, i don't think i would want this one even if i had the cash and status.

It is too big.

In my opinion, halls for most will be based mostly on amenity usage. Your largest guild would probably be better off with a tier 2 hall. The plat would be better spent elsewhere.

Statues are a waste, and waste most recognize is folly.

[Vonotar]

Bratface wrote:

Oakthicket@Permafrost wrote:

My transmuter and stable of tradeskillers can earn more plat in half the time buying treasured items from the broker, transmuting them, making and selling adornments. This is a fact, because I'm doing it now. If the adornment market dried up, there are at least a dozen other tradeskilling market niches that can be successfully exploited.

Let me get this straight.You can buy items from the broker, xmute them, turn that into adornments AND sell all those adornments in less time and make more plat than a guild doing a raid?Throwing them up on the broker doesn't count unless you count the time it takes crap to sell as well. The actual time it takes for them to sell is what counts, not having them up on a broker "ready to buy".If you can do this day in and day out then I want to see your method, cause frankly it doesn't sound possible.

The actual time to sell is unimportant, so long as you have a canal boat situation.See back in the old days we brits used miles of canals to transport coal from the mines to the forges, it took days and even weeks in some instances for the coal to arrive, but that didn't matter as the coal was always needed at the destination, so they just arranged for a canal boat (or barge if you prefer) to set out every hour from the mine, once the first boat arrived at the forge the next boats would continue to arrive every hour after.It's the same with selling items on the broker, once you've found a market demand you can keep supplying it with a steady flow of merchanise, sure they may take a few days or a week for that individual item to sell, but you've always got more stacked up behind ready to sell, and thats what counts.Making money is about knowing your market and then keeping a steady supply, not quick bucks, that's economic suicide

[Foxer]

Just a comment on the graphic for the Maj'Dulian Orrey in the guild hall. This has a base "carpet" attached which limits how this can be used and scaled up. For instance, placing on the main pedistal in the T3 Qeynos courtyrd and scaling up makes the "carpet" much larger than the base while the Orrey itself is in much better proportion to the base. Placing the Orrey on any base will cause this oversight.I, and many of my guild members feel the Orrey graphic without the base "carpet" will open many more uses and placement opportunities without losing anything. As it is, it is very limited in scaling possibilities.

[Thicket Tundrabog]

Bratface wrote:

Oakthicket@Permafrost wrote:

My transmuter and stable of tradeskillers can earn more plat in half the time buying treasured items from the broker, transmuting them, making and selling adornments. This is a fact, because I'm doing it now. If the adornment market dried up, there are at least a dozen other tradeskilling market niches that can be successfully exploited.

Let me get this straight.You can buy items from the broker, xmute them, turn that into adornments AND sell all those adornments in less time and make more plat than a guild doing a raid?Throwing them up on the broker doesn't count unless you count the time it takes crap to sell as well. The actual time it takes for them to sell is what counts, not having them up on a broker "ready to buy".If you can do this day in and day out then I want to see your method, cause frankly it doesn't sound possible.

Read Magnamundian's canal boat post. That's the method I use. I have every common Tier 8 adornment (plus a bunch from Tier 7) on the broker. I craft 3 at a time for the popular ones, and only 1 at a time for the less popular ones. I check a few times a day. When I run out of an adornment, I make more. At the same time I check the broker for treasured items to keep up my stock of fragments and powders. Of course adornments don't all sell in 24 hours. Heck, that would be over 100 plat net profit in one go!! It's common to sell 5-10 in a day, for a 6-12 plat profit for about 40 minutes playtime of one person. Unlike raiding, time commitments are flexible and in smaller chunks.

This is simply one way of making plat. The adornment market has crashed before due to lots of competition and it can crash again. There are many other market niches that are very profitable.

Hint: Have you checked the broker price of smoldering material recently? Wonder why it's very high? Look at the prices of products made from smoldering material. If I had the inclination to double my plat earnings, this is a current hot market niche. No... I don't mean imbued items... Lol.

I'm not a raider, but I sure like them. When I was in the consumables market, they were my best customers. They were willing to pay lots for every raiding advantage obtained from a rare poison, potion, temporary adornment or temporary buff.

[kukubird]

SOE has already made it WAY WAY to easy to get guild halls and people wnat it easier?  Try a little effort.Nevermind, people will still cry they want everything given to them.  SO that being said I am going to run for eq2 President.My slogan is, " Vote for me! I will make sure SOE gives every solo player that made a 6 man guild for themselves a t3 guild hall. "This new free guild hall will also supply an NPC vendor that sure it costs 1 gold a month upkeep ( yes, yes I know that is expensive and takes months to save up for ), BUT!  It gives free masters out for hailing it! )Not only that but I will work my hardest to get all the people that vote for me a vendor that once per day you login and it gives you 2 free levels.  It will not come easy thopugh as the price of this npc is 2 gold per week.  While many will copmplain it takes  them 4 weeks to save up a gold you will have to remember this npc gives you not 1 but 2 levels per day.I will not stop there as I know this still makes the game challenging to us all.  I will lobby for a vendor that gives you instant lvl 80 although this might take time to get in game and might cost as much as 5 gold per week upkeep.VOTE for me and show SOE we don't want any sort of challenge anymore or sense of accomplishment.  Vote for me and show SOE we want to be lvl 80 in the first week and move on to other games!  Vote for me and show SOE we actually want to say we won EQ2!Paid for by the coaltion of easy mode whiners.  We might only be 1% of the population but we post like we are 98%!

[ChandraVeda]

kukubird wrote:

Paid for by the coaltion of easy mode whiners.  We might only be 1% of the population but we post like we are 98%!

qft - i lol'd irl!  that right there is totally full of win!

[Taylinn]

kukubird wrote:

Paid for by the coaltion of easy mode whiners.  We might only be 1% of the population but we post like we are 98%!

That has to be the funniest one liner on these forums yet...

[Bratface]

Oakthicket@Permafrost wrote:

Bratface wrote:

Oakthicket@Permafrost wrote:

My transmuter and stable of tradeskillers can earn more plat in half the time buying treasured items from the broker, transmuting them, making and selling adornments. This is a fact, because I'm doing it now. If the adornment market dried up, there are at least a dozen other tradeskilling market niches that can be successfully exploited.

Let me get this straight.You can buy items from the broker, xmute them, turn that into adornments AND sell all those adornments in less time and make more plat than a guild doing a raid?Throwing them up on the broker doesn't count unless you count the time it takes crap to sell as well. The actual time it takes for them to sell is what counts, not having them up on a broker "ready to buy".If you can do this day in and day out then I want to see your method, cause frankly it doesn't sound possible.

Read Magnamundian's canal boat post. That's the method I use.

So you are not in fact making money as fast as a raid, you can slant it all you want but the lead time and broker time all add up to longer time than a raid.Creative bookkeeping ftl, you still don't make what raiders do in the space of a raid, and you don't have to only log in a couple hours a week just to raid in order to pay the bills, if you don't raid, it takes MUCH more effort.Even if you did make money your way and it somehow magically was as fast as a raid, you STILL do more work than a raider who shows up and pushes buttons on cue, they get rewarded for being a good little soldier and doing what they are told, the exception being the rare ones who actually figure encounters out, and those people are extremely rare and actually earn their keep. Unlike the people who follow them and take orders. Raiding =  easy mode for 22/23 people in the raid

[Feydakeen]

Bratface wrote:

So you are not in fact making money as fast as a raid, you can slant it all you want but the lead time and broker time all add up to longer time than a raid.Creative bookkeeping ftl, you still don't make what raiders do in the space of a raid, and you don't have to only log in a couple hours a week just to raid in order to pay the bills, if you don't raid, it takes MUCH more effort.Even if you did make money your way and it somehow magically was as fast as a raid, you STILL do more work than a raider who shows up and pushes buttons on cue, they get rewarded for being a good little soldier and doing what they are told, the exception being the rare ones who actually figure encounters out, and those people are extremely rare and actually earn their keep. Unlike the people who follow them and take orders. Raiding =  easy mode for 22/23 people in the raid

OMG....

I'm in no way a hardcore raider. I regard Synergy as a semi-casual raid guild, which incendently has lots of success with raiding and getting mythicals. Why? Because we ALL DO OUR SHARE.

If you really think you can raid encounters like Nexona, Druushk, Venril sathir, Leviathan with 22-23 stupid easy people then you're either very ignorant or just plain stupid. It takes more then just good raid leading, every member has to know his role and be at top of his game. Besides it took us 100's of wipes on encounters like Nexona, you think that was easy money made??? In the end we got like 20 plat in the chest, that more then makes up for the 1000's of plat repairs needed every night in VP.

If you think raiding is easy, just join a guild which raids alot and look how much plat you'll reap :p I can make more money by harvesting a whole day then doing raids. PERIOD