Planes of Prophecy Profession Abilities: Fighter - Page 2

10-31-2017, 04:29 PM

funny thing I discovered today (certainly everybody knew)

AAs that increase threat amount by X% increase potency of that said taunt so are useless too

so like I was playing on AAs on my paladin, and all spells that reduce abilities by X seconds don't work and all AAs that increase threat don't work ... well .. though they removed requirements on AAs, feels we don't have much choice in the end Smile

... nothing works :'(

now I wonder about deaggros ... are the capped at 10k pot too ?

headbusta · 10-31-2017, 04:47 PM

Deaggros don't scale above 10k either.

10-31-2017, 05:29 PM

Love all the feedback posted already, and while I do agree with the things that are broken, you guys should try to actually get some groups together and run a heroic group or 2 over on beta to see how things really are.

While it might have been a fluke, I ran through 2 separate zones with myself, a BL, Templar, and our top Conjy, with almost no hate issues. Obviously had arguably 2 of the top DPSers from our guild and no one to help with hate...

I think we can all do math until we are blue in the face, but there is no real substitute for real world testing.

headbusta · 10-31-2017, 05:54 PM

^ If that's your answer then they should just do away with abilities that do threat. If they aren't going to be affected by more than 10k pot, and they aren't affected by fervor they're just going to continue to become less and less relevant. It doesn't matter if they've done a band-aid fix in the background to make aggro better, or if you're just able to do enough damage to keep aggro now. If threat isn't going to scale based on any of our continued stat growth then threat should just go away.

10-31-2017, 06:12 PM

Most certainly not an "answer" but simply an observation of what my experience in PoP has been thus far. Like I said, it could have been a fluke, its not like I have a huge sample size to lean back on.

headbusta · 10-31-2017, 07:07 PM

Yeah I understand it's an observation "thus far" but by the end of the expac we'll probably have 125k+ potency and 250+ static fervor. So taunts will be affected by <10% of our potency and none of our fervor, what's the point of having them? Either roll them into damage (which would then put tanks above a lot of others on the parse, so while fun for us probably not the preferable route) or make them actually scale with the stats we gain. I understand they want to put some responsibility on the support classes to help with aggro, and some on the dps classes to not steal aggro.

But, literally every trash pull in raids now is basically just a zerg of necro/conj/wiz/***/rang/random etherealist tanking between any snaps the tanks are willing to use, cause why would a troub cast AV on trash, and why would dps classes hold back on aggro on something they can survive tanking (or in some cases even stuff they can't survive tanking)?

11-01-2017, 08:03 AM

Last night, my guild raided in beta on a couple different named and aggro is laughable. I play a Guard and we have an SK, and mobs just danced all over the place. I can stomach the deficiency of taunts, hoping they will get fixed but I hate when things simply don't work like snaps. Plant "Forces targets in Area of Effect to change their selected target to caster", not once. Irresistible Force "Forces target to change their selected target to caster instantly and every 1 second", not even a little bit. Cry of the Warrior "Forces target to change their selected target to caster" never. Recapture seems to do nothing. Rescue and Sneering Assault should "increase thread priority of target by 3 positions" which should be enough to reclaim a mob that suddenly jumps on a dps, however they do not.

When everyone allowed a tank to pull, remained patient and watched their dps, a tank could hold a mob but if the tank died or the mob got loose it was nearly impossible to get the mob back.

Based on reading this thread, it seems there are understandable (even if frustrating) reasons why there is an overall threat deficiency and I can hope this gets addressed but my frustration comes from abilities simply not doing what the tooltip describes.

11-01-2017, 09:38 PM

can we get a reply from Devs regarding taunts scaling problem with pot and fervor? it is really frustrating if it will keep staying like this.

11-07-2017, 09:15 AM

annoying I know

bruiser - please remove the 10m range on sonic punch

if u definitly want to give it as a GM upgrade at lvl 105, please make it useable even at close range.

make grab also useable on epic targets. make it so it wether snaps, forces aggro or adds threat when used on epics. Right now it also has become quite useless

11-09-2017, 08:44 PM

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...ta-update-thursday-11-09.582005/#post-6476362

So taunts should work properly with potency, yay Smile

Thank you Dev's, cheers.

11-09-2017, 08:53 PM

now who tried and FeedBack ?

I hope also for all procs, AAs threat and desaggros will work with that

Ingerimm · 11-10-2017, 08:40 PM

The paladin prestige ability "Holy Knights Conviction" will not be spelled out on the single target profession divine damage spell "Divine Vengeance", this is a bug and should be corrected.

11-11-2017, 12:56 PM

I didn't had time to parse and post here but my taunts seems to scaled nicely with potency. Kudos for that Smile

Ogdinmar · 11-12-2017, 12:26 AM

I agree the scale is very nice with the new pot effects. However, IMO, I am feeling that tanks are still having to rely heavily on dps to maintain agro even with the rise in taunt numbers. This is just how I felt during some heroic runs ive been doing pre and post change. If there is no hate management class in the group its still super rough on some classes. I am by no means saying it should be easy but when your using your tank tools (max hate mod, 1.2+ mil ability mod, threat xfers and group/single target hate reductions) you should be able to do your job, obviously still doing damage, but tanks shouldn't have to do 1 bill+ dps to do their jobs. Its nice to be able to do so but it shouldn't be required and there are a lot of casual tanks who cant do that. Heck there are a lot of non casual tanks who cant. Granted this is still beta and we are using a mesh of gear atm.

I think that how hate is registered needs to be looked at. taunts should be more than a 1:1 ratio (1 point of taunt is = 1 point of threat). iirc damage is 1:0.5 ratio (1 point of damage is = 0.5 point of threat). Which was great when they did the threat adjustment back in ToV but when it can be dolled out in the billions that beats the hundreds of millions taunts are being dolled out in. Even with the changes im not seeing billions of points of taunt landing in one blow. Which is where having to do 1bill+ dps is required unless you are a paladin. Just a thought, assuming I remember correctly on the ratios of how threat is dealt. maybe taunts should be considered 1:1.5 or 1:2 or what ever the magic ratio would be.

Ingerimm · 11-13-2017, 04:52 PM

The paladin epic 1.0 buff "Marrs Favor" includes a damage proc component "Marrs Fury" this damage proc component is bugged, it hits only none critical and only with the base values. Insteed on my char stats to hit with 635655 to 776912 multiplied with 45,xx for my crit bonus value, it hits only for 1847 to 4753 damage points.

Ingerimm · 11-13-2017, 05:18 PM

The Paladin:

focus effect "Divine Favor" should great increasing the healing of "Divine Favor", it does nothing
focus effect "Prayer of Healing" should increasing the base heal value of "Prayer of Healing" by 10%, it does nothing
AA enhancement "Enhance: Faith Strike" should increase the base healing amount for "Faith Strike" by 25%, it does nothing
AA enhancement "Devout Faith" should increase the ward amount for "Demonstration of Faith" by 20%, it does nothing
AA enhancement "Devout Prayers" should increase the base healing for "Holy Aid" by 10%, it does nothing
AA enhancement "Holy Prayers" should increase the base heal amount for "Lay on Hands" by 9,25%, it does nothing
AA enhancement "Allied Prayers" should increase the base heal amount for "Prayer of Healing" by 10%, it does nothing

AA enhancement values on max AA point in the enhancement selection.

11-13-2017, 10:28 PM

To follow up on Ingerimms message, this has been an issue since they "fixed" fighter heal %s back in (may?). Every time I pushed for it I was told, it would be remedied with the class rebalances in the coming x-pack OR that it was intentional since tank heals were never meant to heal for such a large percentage of health (Despite literally being percentage based).

I think tank heals (Since they were % based) were one of the few things that scaled well, it seems like this was just an oversight when the levels and tiers (Adept/Expert/Master), were adjusted to prevent people from using low-level versions at max level.

Me personally, I just want to feel like when i`m building an AA tree for a tank that "invokes protective and healing magic", that there's actually something I can spend my AA points to bolster the healing part. TBH, the only reason paladins have amends to my understanding is because they were designed to do LESS damage in favor of heals. Amends was just a tool to help them keep up.

Just my Two cents. Smile

I see no reason to play a Paladin over a Zerker, if it cant heal, I am simply class changing if it is not remedied by next x-pack.

11-14-2017, 09:46 AM

I agree, the focus on heals was stated to be broken and should have been corrected in class balance/new xpac

and still isn't.

but for paladins, with all the priests' overheal, does the paladin self heals still mean anything ? prayer of healing (12% max health heal .. is useless) ... maybe should get an effect that in combat only, overheals with paladin heals create a small ward

Ingerimm · 11-14-2017, 11:11 AM

When I put my single ward on live server to beta with nearly the same stats it was downgraded further.

On the live, my single ward (Demonstration of Faith VIII) has been normal critically in the moment a value of about 161.000.000 ward points.

The same was on same gear, on same quality of spell, same spell level, has in the beta only still a ward value of about 131,000,000 ward points.

So this is another renewal weakening of 19% of the strength of this ward. And thus a renewed weakening of the defensive of the paladins.

11-14-2017, 05:11 PM

if u want to know about a crappy ward, try the bruiser one added to their mitigation temp. rock skin. With 48k pot and 4k3 CB, it wards for 7 million.
and the new version of rockskin lvl 108 wards for 7,6 million. it has become meaningless.

11-14-2017, 06:30 PM

and the ward is also lower than in live. it's 7million900 in live and I have less good stats

Ingerimm · 11-14-2017, 06:41 PM

Bruisers can make their character immune to any effects almost around the clock, which is the major difference to the crusaders.

Take the paladin for damage blocks and reductions:

must be skilled:

4 seconds reflected = 4 seconds damage immune (1x every 75 seconds)
4.4 seconds all Damage block = 4.4 seconds or 15 hits long damage immune for 50% of max mana as cost, less than 50% mana not applicable. (Once every 90 seconds)
8 seconds physical damage block with 4 seconds additional skillable (once every 45 seconds)
20 seconds 40% damage reduction on magic damage (1x every 120 seconds)
11 seconds 34.5% damage reduction on magic damage (1x every 90 seconds)
13.2 seconds 40.25% damage reduction against all damage (1x every 45 seconds)
1 stone skin, for damage greater than 15% of Max HP (1x every 150 seconds)
25.6 seconds 1 outgoing damage heal 10% outgoing group damage is converted to incomming heal (once every 60 seconds) => if the mob damage is immune or the group is stunned, there is no heal
17 seconds damage immune for damage less than 50% of Max HP, hardly relevant on raid since most damage is higher than 50% of Crusader Max HP (1x every 150 seconds)

does not have to be skilled:

permanently by the epic 1.0 11.5% physical damage reduction
permanently 10% backheal incomming damage through the epic 1.0

Defensive class basic skills:

Defensive paladin character basic skills => 4 Heals + 1 Ward, nothing else

In sum, do that, ...

without damage limit:

8.4 seconds + 1 Stonehide all damage immune => unless there is negative damage reduction by the encounter then it is only 4.4 seconds + 1 stone Skin
12 seconds physical damage immune

with damage limit limited by the HP:

17 seconds all damage immune for damage less than 50% max HP
31 seconds 34.5% to 40% damage reduction against magic damage
13.2 seconds 40.25% damage reduction dealt all damage
permanent 11.5% physical damage reduction

to refresh the HP:

permanently 10% backheal incomming damage
25.6 seconds Heal due to outgoing damage to the Group
+ 4 direct heals +1 ward

Crusaders can only be immune to damage for a very short time and therefore need much more healing. And they are also very vulnerable to damage exceeding their max HP.

Guardians / berserks with their stone skins are not interested in the incomming damage amount and usually the type of damage.

Bruisers / monks must pay attention to the type of damage, but due to the immnunities, the incomming amount of damage is usually not of interest here either.

Ingerimm · 11-14-2017, 08:40 PM

The crusader AA Ability "Aura of Leadership" is a small regenerative ward for the group.

Unfortunately, this only works correctly in some overland zones, because only in some overland zones does the regeneration critically trigger, so that you even get a meaningful ward worth.

Not critical, in all instances, we talk about a ward which has a size of about 500,000 wardpoints and needs about 30 seconds to reach its maximum value or to regenerate it, in smal 6 second ticks.

Nowadays, as well as every hit by the mob spends several tens of millions to about 4,000,000,000 damage points, this value seems utterly ridiculous.

The same applies to the regenerative component of "Blessing of the Paladin," which has a legendary, absolutely ridiculous value in the noncritical range of 535 ward points.

.................................................. ..............................................

As mentioned by Bigstomp, one does not want the tank heals to reach great values.

But then you have to give the crusaders a proper compensation, if you take away the strength of the heals, which are part of the defensive tools of the paladin and the shadowknight.

As it is at the moment, it is comparable to halving the number of stone skins of the guardians and berserkers or the immunities of the brawlers.

Another view would be to limit the absorption of stone skins to a loss amount of xxx millions of taken damage levels instead of leaving them at an unlimited amount of damage for absorption.

Cap the heals from the crusaders without any compensation, just is not fair compared to the other classes of tank, which ones do not need their heal as part of their devensive, since they can absorb or avert all harm.

Most crusaders defensive tools are based on damage reduction and the subsequent healing of taken damage.

Ingerimm · 11-14-2017, 09:25 PM

At least as similar as before.

Prayer of Healing has its 10% base heal improvement back from classes focus effect.

The improvement of Divine Favor has been toned down a lot. In the past, the deathprevent healed to 105% max HP, so it worked also well if you had healing reduction effects on you. Now, the revised focus effect brings an improvement from 46,8-57,2% to 58.5-71.5%. But this is much more better than nothing Smile

11-15-2017, 12:29 AM

That has me pretty Excited Ingerimm, I am going to have to keep an Eye on it, I would very much like to stick to my Pally, if those heals are fixed up.

Ingerimm · 11-15-2017, 08:47 AM

This 2 points are back in funktion now, since a few mins.

11-15-2017, 08:57 AM

oh ? what do they do (still doing same thing ?) ??? need to check bruiser one then

Ingerimm · 11-15-2017, 03:26 PM

The enumerated AA improvements that did not work anymore are now back in function,

but most changed in function.

Enhance: Faith Strike => increasee base heal amount from faith strike by 25%
Devout Faith => increases the ward amount from demonstration of faith by 20%
Devout Prayers => degreases the base reuse time from holy aid by 5 seconds
Holy Prayers => degreases the base reuse time from lay on hands by 25 seconds
Allied Prayers => Adds a secondary effect to prayer of healing that wards group members (AE) for 5% of max health

In my eyes an acceptable repair.

Thx

DEV Team

Ingerimm · 11-15-2017, 04:25 PM

With the base reuse changes, of course, at 100% normal reuse speed, unfortunately only 50% of the improvement left.

At 100% reuse speed:

So, holy aid reuses 27.5 seconds instead of 30 seconds (5 AA points for 2,5 sec)

and lay on hand reuses 137.5 seconds instead of 150 seconds. (5 AA points for 12,5 sec)

Could so be twice as likely to be noticeable.

Perhaps this was overlooked in the change in the base reuse improvement.

11-15-2017, 05:10 PM

what are you talking about ?

on live and last time I check on beta, if you are maxed in reuse speed, then the AAs that reduce reuse by % or flat amount do nothing. Did they change something ?

10-31-2017, 04:29 PM	#31
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	funny thing I discovered today (certainly everybody knew) AAs that increase threat amount by X% increase potency of that said taunt so are useless too so like I was playing on AAs on my paladin, and all spells that reduce abilities by X seconds don't work and all AAs that increase threat don't work ... well .. though they removed requirements on AAs, feels we don't have much choice in the end ... nothing works :'( now I wonder about deaggros ... are the capped at 10k pot too ?

10-31-2017, 06:12 PM	#35
Nero New Member Posts: n/a	headbusta said: ↑ “^ If that's your answer then they should just do away with abilities that do threat. If they aren't going to be affected by more than 10k pot, and they aren't affected by fervor they're just going to continue to become less and less relevant. It doesn't matter if they've done a band-aid fix in the background to make aggro better, or if you're just able to do enough damage to keep aggro now. If threat isn't going to scale based on any of our continued stat growth then threat should just go away.” Most certainly not an "answer" but simply an observation of what my experience in PoP has been thus far. Like I said, it could have been a fluke, its not like I have a huge sample size to lean back on.

11-09-2017, 08:44 PM	#40
XustinuS New Member Posts: n/a	https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...ta-update-thursday-11-09.582005/#post-6476362 “ ABILITIES Corrected a bug that prevented potency over 10,000 from applying to taunts. ” So taunts should work properly with potency, yay Thank you Dev's, cheers.

11-13-2017, 05:18 PM	#46
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	The Paladin: focus effect "Divine Favor" should great increasing the healing of "Divine Favor", it does nothing focus effect "Prayer of Healing" should increasing the base heal value of "Prayer of Healing" by 10%, it does nothing AA enhancement "Enhance: Faith Strike" should increase the base healing amount for "Faith Strike" by 25%, it does nothing AA enhancement "Devout Faith" should increase the ward amount for "Demonstration of Faith" by 20%, it does nothing AA enhancement "Devout Prayers" should increase the base healing for "Holy Aid" by 10%, it does nothing AA enhancement "Holy Prayers" should increase the base heal amount for "Lay on Hands" by 9,25%, it does nothing AA enhancement "Allied Prayers" should increase the base heal amount for "Prayer of Healing" by 10%, it does nothing AA enhancement values on max AA point in the enhancement selection.

11-13-2017, 10:28 PM	#47
Bigstomp New Member Posts: n/a	To follow up on Ingerimms message, this has been an issue since they "fixed" fighter heal %s back in (may?). Every time I pushed for it I was told, it would be remedied with the class rebalances in the coming x-pack OR that it was intentional since tank heals were never meant to heal for such a large percentage of health (Despite literally being percentage based). I think tank heals (Since they were % based) were one of the few things that scaled well, it seems like this was just an oversight when the levels and tiers (Adept/Expert/Master), were adjusted to prevent people from using low-level versions at max level. Me personally, I just want to feel like when i`m building an AA tree for a tank that "invokes protective and healing magic", that there's actually something I can spend my AA points to bolster the healing part. TBH, the only reason paladins have amends to my understanding is because they were designed to do LESS damage in favor of heals. Amends was just a tool to help them keep up. Just my Two cents. I see no reason to play a Paladin over a Zerker, if it cant heal, I am simply class changing if it is not remedied by next x-pack.

10-31-2017, 04:47 PM	#32
headbusta Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Deaggros don't scale above 10k either.

10-31-2017, 05:29 PM	#33
Nero New Member Posts: n/a	Love all the feedback posted already, and while I do agree with the things that are broken, you guys should try to actually get some groups together and run a heroic group or 2 over on beta to see how things really are. While it might have been a fluke, I ran through 2 separate zones with myself, a BL, Templar, and our top Conjy, with almost no hate issues. Obviously had arguably 2 of the top DPSers from our guild and no one to help with hate... I think we can all do math until we are blue in the face, but there is no real substitute for real world testing.

10-31-2017, 05:54 PM	#34
headbusta Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	^ If that's your answer then they should just do away with abilities that do threat. If they aren't going to be affected by more than 10k pot, and they aren't affected by fervor they're just going to continue to become less and less relevant. It doesn't matter if they've done a band-aid fix in the background to make aggro better, or if you're just able to do enough damage to keep aggro now. If threat isn't going to scale based on any of our continued stat growth then threat should just go away.

10-31-2017, 07:07 PM	#36
headbusta Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Yeah I understand it's an observation "thus far" but by the end of the expac we'll probably have 125k+ potency and 250+ static fervor. So taunts will be affected by <10% of our potency and none of our fervor, what's the point of having them? Either roll them into damage (which would then put tanks above a lot of others on the parse, so while fun for us probably not the preferable route) or make them actually scale with the stats we gain. I understand they want to put some responsibility on the support classes to help with aggro, and some on the dps classes to not steal aggro. But, literally every trash pull in raids now is basically just a zerg of necro/conj/wiz/***/rang/random etherealist tanking between any snaps the tanks are willing to use, cause why would a troub cast AV on trash, and why would dps classes hold back on aggro on something they can survive tanking (or in some cases even stuff they can't survive tanking)?

11-01-2017, 08:03 AM	#37
Celestial New Member Posts: n/a	Last night, my guild raided in beta on a couple different named and aggro is laughable. I play a Guard and we have an SK, and mobs just danced all over the place. I can stomach the deficiency of taunts, hoping they will get fixed but I hate when things simply don't work like snaps. Plant "Forces targets in Area of Effect to change their selected target to caster", not once. Irresistible Force "Forces target to change their selected target to caster instantly and every 1 second", not even a little bit. Cry of the Warrior "Forces target to change their selected target to caster" never. Recapture seems to do nothing. Rescue and Sneering Assault should "increase thread priority of target by 3 positions" which should be enough to reclaim a mob that suddenly jumps on a dps, however they do not. When everyone allowed a tank to pull, remained patient and watched their dps, a tank could hold a mob but if the tank died or the mob got loose it was nearly impossible to get the mob back. Based on reading this thread, it seems there are understandable (even if frustrating) reasons why there is an overall threat deficiency and I can hope this gets addressed but my frustration comes from abilities simply not doing what the tooltip describes.

11-01-2017, 09:38 PM	#38
XustinuS New Member Posts: n/a	can we get a reply from Devs regarding taunts scaling problem with pot and fervor? it is really frustrating if it will keep staying like this.

11-07-2017, 09:15 AM	#39
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	annoying I know bruiser - please remove the 10m range on sonic punch if u definitly want to give it as a GM upgrade at lvl 105, please make it useable even at close range. make grab also useable on epic targets. make it so it wether snaps, forces aggro or adds threat when used on epics. Right now it also has become quite useless

11-09-2017, 08:53 PM	#41
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	now who tried and FeedBack ? I hope also for all procs, AAs threat and desaggros will work with that

11-10-2017, 08:40 PM	#42
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	The paladin prestige ability "Holy Knights Conviction" will not be spelled out on the single target profession divine damage spell "Divine Vengeance", this is a bug and should be corrected.

11-11-2017, 12:56 PM	#43
XustinuS New Member Posts: n/a	I didn't had time to parse and post here but my taunts seems to scaled nicely with potency. Kudos for that

11-12-2017, 12:26 AM	#44
Ogdinmar Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I agree the scale is very nice with the new pot effects. However, IMO, I am feeling that tanks are still having to rely heavily on dps to maintain agro even with the rise in taunt numbers. This is just how I felt during some heroic runs ive been doing pre and post change. If there is no hate management class in the group its still super rough on some classes. I am by no means saying it should be easy but when your using your tank tools (max hate mod, 1.2+ mil ability mod, threat xfers and group/single target hate reductions) you should be able to do your job, obviously still doing damage, but tanks shouldn't have to do 1 bill+ dps to do their jobs. Its nice to be able to do so but it shouldn't be required and there are a lot of casual tanks who cant do that. Heck there are a lot of non casual tanks who cant. Granted this is still beta and we are using a mesh of gear atm. I think that how hate is registered needs to be looked at. taunts should be more than a 1:1 ratio (1 point of taunt is = 1 point of threat). iirc damage is 1:0.5 ratio (1 point of damage is = 0.5 point of threat). Which was great when they did the threat adjustment back in ToV but when it can be dolled out in the billions that beats the hundreds of millions taunts are being dolled out in. Even with the changes im not seeing billions of points of taunt landing in one blow. Which is where having to do 1bill+ dps is required unless you are a paladin. Just a thought, assuming I remember correctly on the ratios of how threat is dealt. maybe taunts should be considered 1:1.5 or 1:2 or what ever the magic ratio would be.

11-13-2017, 04:52 PM	#45
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	The paladin epic 1.0 buff "Marrs Favor" includes a damage proc component "Marrs Fury" this damage proc component is bugged, it hits only none critical and only with the base values. Insteed on my char stats to hit with 635655 to 776912 multiplied with 45,xx for my crit bonus value, it hits only for 1847 to 4753 damage points.

11-14-2017, 09:46 AM	#48
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	I agree, the focus on heals was stated to be broken and should have been corrected in class balance/new xpac and still isn't. but for paladins, with all the priests' overheal, does the paladin self heals still mean anything ? prayer of healing (12% max health heal .. is useless) ... maybe should get an effect that in combat only, overheals with paladin heals create a small ward

11-14-2017, 11:11 AM	#49
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Earar said: ↑ “I agree, the focus on heals was stated to be broken and should have been corrected in class balance/new xpac and still isn't. but for paladins, with all the priests' overheal, does the paladin self heals still mean anything ? prayer of healing (12% max health heal .. is useless) ... maybe should get an effect that in combat only, overheals with paladin heals create a small ward” When I put my single ward on live server to beta with nearly the same stats it was downgraded further. On the live, my single ward (Demonstration of Faith VIII) has been normal critically in the moment a value of about 161.000.000 ward points. The same was on same gear, on same quality of spell, same spell level, has in the beta only still a ward value of about 131,000,000 ward points. So this is another renewal weakening of 19% of the strength of this ward. And thus a renewed weakening of the defensive of the paladins.

11-14-2017, 05:11 PM	#50
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Ingerimm said: ↑ “When I put my single ward on live server to beta with nearly the same stats it was downgraded further. On the live, my single ward (Demonstration of Faith VIII) has been normal critically in the moment a value of about 161.000.000 ward points. The same was on same gear, on same quality of spell, same spell level, has in the beta only still a ward value of about 131,000,000 ward points. So this is another renewal weakening of 19% of the strength of this ward. And thus a renewed weakening of the defensive of the paladins.” if u want to know about a crappy ward, try the bruiser one added to their mitigation temp. rock skin. With 48k pot and 4k3 CB, it wards for 7 million. and the new version of rockskin lvl 108 wards for 7,6 million. it has become meaningless.

11-14-2017, 06:30 PM	#51
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	and the ward is also lower than in live. it's 7million900 in live and I have less good stats

11-14-2017, 06:41 PM	#52
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Earar said: ↑ “if u want to know about a crappy ward, try the bruiser one added to their mitigation temp. rock skin. With 48k pot and 4k3 CB, it wards for 7 million. and the new version of rockskin lvl 108 wards for 7,6 million. it has become meaningless.” Bruisers can make their character immune to any effects almost around the clock, which is the major difference to the crusaders. Take the paladin for damage blocks and reductions: must be skilled: 4 seconds reflected = 4 seconds damage immune (1x every 75 seconds) 4.4 seconds all Damage block = 4.4 seconds or 15 hits long damage immune for 50% of max mana as cost, less than 50% mana not applicable. (Once every 90 seconds) 8 seconds physical damage block with 4 seconds additional skillable (once every 45 seconds) 20 seconds 40% damage reduction on magic damage (1x every 120 seconds) 11 seconds 34.5% damage reduction on magic damage (1x every 90 seconds) 13.2 seconds 40.25% damage reduction against all damage (1x every 45 seconds) 1 stone skin, for damage greater than 15% of Max HP (1x every 150 seconds) 25.6 seconds 1 outgoing damage heal 10% outgoing group damage is converted to incomming heal (once every 60 seconds) => if the mob damage is immune or the group is stunned, there is no heal 17 seconds damage immune for damage less than 50% of Max HP, hardly relevant on raid since most damage is higher than 50% of Crusader Max HP (1x every 150 seconds) does not have to be skilled: permanently by the epic 1.0 11.5% physical damage reduction permanently 10% backheal incomming damage through the epic 1.0 Defensive class basic skills: Defensive paladin character basic skills => 4 Heals + 1 Ward, nothing else In sum, do that, ... without damage limit: 8.4 seconds + 1 Stonehide all damage immune => unless there is negative damage reduction by the encounter then it is only 4.4 seconds + 1 stone Skin 12 seconds physical damage immune with damage limit limited by the HP: 17 seconds all damage immune for damage less than 50% max HP 31 seconds 34.5% to 40% damage reduction against magic damage 13.2 seconds 40.25% damage reduction dealt all damage permanent 11.5% physical damage reduction to refresh the HP: permanently 10% backheal incomming damage 25.6 seconds Heal due to outgoing damage to the Group + 4 direct heals +1 ward Crusaders can only be immune to damage for a very short time and therefore need much more healing. And they are also very vulnerable to damage exceeding their max HP. Guardians / berserks with their stone skins are not interested in the incomming damage amount and usually the type of damage. Bruisers / monks must pay attention to the type of damage, but due to the immnunities, the incomming amount of damage is usually not of interest here either.

11-14-2017, 08:40 PM	#53
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	The crusader AA Ability "Aura of Leadership" is a small regenerative ward for the group. Unfortunately, this only works correctly in some overland zones, because only in some overland zones does the regeneration critically trigger, so that you even get a meaningful ward worth. Not critical, in all instances, we talk about a ward which has a size of about 500,000 wardpoints and needs about 30 seconds to reach its maximum value or to regenerate it, in smal 6 second ticks. Nowadays, as well as every hit by the mob spends several tens of millions to about 4,000,000,000 damage points, this value seems utterly ridiculous. The same applies to the regenerative component of "Blessing of the Paladin," which has a legendary, absolutely ridiculous value in the noncritical range of 535 ward points. .................................................. .............................................. As mentioned by Bigstomp, one does not want the tank heals to reach great values. But then you have to give the crusaders a proper compensation, if you take away the strength of the heals, which are part of the defensive tools of the paladin and the shadowknight. As it is at the moment, it is comparable to halving the number of stone skins of the guardians and berserkers or the immunities of the brawlers. Another view would be to limit the absorption of stone skins to a loss amount of xxx millions of taken damage levels instead of leaving them at an unlimited amount of damage for absorption. Cap the heals from the crusaders without any compensation, just is not fair compared to the other classes of tank, which ones do not need their heal as part of their devensive, since they can absorb or avert all harm. Most crusaders defensive tools are based on damage reduction and the subsequent healing of taken damage.

11-14-2017, 09:25 PM	#54
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Earar said: ↑ “oh ? what do they do (still doing same thing ?) ??? need to check bruiser one then” At least as similar as before. Prayer of Healing has its 10% base heal improvement back from classes focus effect. The improvement of Divine Favor has been toned down a lot. In the past, the deathprevent healed to 105% max HP, so it worked also well if you had healing reduction effects on you. Now, the revised focus effect brings an improvement from 46,8-57,2% to 58.5-71.5%. But this is much more better than nothing

11-15-2017, 12:29 AM	#55
Bigstomp New Member Posts: n/a	That has me pretty Excited Ingerimm, I am going to have to keep an Eye on it, I would very much like to stick to my Pally, if those heals are fixed up.

11-15-2017, 08:47 AM	#56
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Ingerimm said: ↑ “ focus effect "Divine Favor" should great increasing the healing of "Divine Favor", it does nothing focus effect "Prayer of Healing" should increasing the base heal value of "Prayer of Healing" by 10%, it does nothing ” This 2 points are back in funktion now, since a few mins.

11-15-2017, 08:57 AM	#57
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Ingerimm said: ↑ “This 2 points are back in funktion now, since a few mins.” oh ? what do they do (still doing same thing ?) ??? need to check bruiser one then

11-15-2017, 03:26 PM	#58
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Ingerimm said: ↑ “ AA enhancement "Enhance: Faith Strike" should increase the base healing amount for "Faith Strike" by 25%, it does nothing AA enhancement "Devout Faith" should increase the ward amount for "Demonstration of Faith" by 20%, it does nothing AA enhancement "Devout Prayers" should increase the base healing for "Holy Aid" by 10%, it does nothing AA enhancement "Holy Prayers" should increase the base heal amount for "Lay on Hands" by 9,25%, it does nothing AA enhancement "Allied Prayers" should increase the base heal amount for "Prayer of Healing" by 10%, it does nothing AA enhancement values on max AA point in the enhancement selection.” The enumerated AA improvements that did not work anymore are now back in function, but most changed in function. Enhance: Faith Strike => increasee base heal amount from faith strike by 25% Devout Faith => increases the ward amount from demonstration of faith by 20% Devout Prayers => degreases the base reuse time from holy aid by 5 seconds Holy Prayers => degreases the base reuse time from lay on hands by 25 seconds Allied Prayers => Adds a secondary effect to prayer of healing that wards group members (AE) for 5% of max health In my eyes an acceptable repair. Thx DEV Team

11-15-2017, 04:25 PM	#59
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Ingerimm said: ↑ “Devout Prayers => degreases the base reuse time from holy aid by 5 seconds Holy Prayers => degreases the base reuse time from lay on hands by 25 seconds” With the base reuse changes, of course, at 100% normal reuse speed, unfortunately only 50% of the improvement left. At 100% reuse speed: So, holy aid reuses 27.5 seconds instead of 30 seconds (5 AA points for 2,5 sec) and lay on hand reuses 137.5 seconds instead of 150 seconds. (5 AA points for 12,5 sec) Could so be twice as likely to be noticeable. Perhaps this was overlooked in the change in the base reuse improvement.

11-15-2017, 05:10 PM	#60
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	what are you talking about ? on live and last time I check on beta, if you are maxed in reuse speed, then the AAs that reduce reuse by % or flat amount do nothing. Did they change something ?