Results of some all out DPS parsing (Not as long as the previous post) - Page 2

Burningho · 01-25-2006, 05:40 AM

Wasuna wrote:
Guardians DPS in defensive tanking group buffed - 190
Guardians DPS in offensive non-tanking group buffed - 220

That is right on with my experience too. There just does not seem to be a significant enough difference when using our offensive stance.

Ladicav · 01-25-2006, 08:56 AM

Wasuna wrote:
I don't have the parses but I have been running a montered parser in Poets Palace the last few days. I have been getting a feel for what I and other in my group can do. The following is what my feel is:
I'm level 60 with poets shield and the 1HS fabled weapon from Cazels. My 1H/shield combo is almost as as much DPS as my 2HS cobalt so I just don't change out.
Guardians DPS in defensive tanking group buffed - 190
Guardians DPS in offensive non-tanking group buffed - 220
The worst part is that I usually JUST barely out DPS'ed the conjuor pet in most fights but that doesn't even count the conjours spells. Also, I told the conjour I was beating his pet and he said he keeps itout part of the fight so it wouldn't steal agro.
I did all but the last 4 fights of very difficult last night without a stance and didn't even notice it.

I agree with your findings. I did all those tests a week ago against all those straight up yellow con gnolls in sinking sands without using any combat arts, and collated and presented the results. For anyone else who didn't see this already, click the link....http://members.optushome.com.au/ladicav/Parse.htm

I agree on your point about no stance, it's a nothing stance. Going from defensive stance > no stance, or offensive stance > no stance in both cases didn't significantly boost any performance enough to be viable. I never use no stance now.

My parses also agree with there only being a roughly 20 - 25 average dps difference between offensive stance and defensive stance, in the same the weapon configuration. I counted about 77 average dps in defensive stance to 103 average dps in offensive with dual wield and 55 average dps in defensive stance to 77 average dps in offensive stance with 1h/shield. So now I use mainly only defensive stance 1h/shield and offensive stance d/w because the difference between them is a lot more significant and viable to switch.

Burningho · 01-27-2006, 03:27 AM

Has anyone run these same tests on a non-Guardian fighter (i.e. solo dps in full offensive stance against the same mobs)?

Message Edited by Burninghope on 01-26-200602:29 PM

Crim001 · 01-27-2006, 05:48 AM

Dananeb wrote:
Great work Ladicav, I do have a question though and allow me to explain first. Whne i solo as a bruiser I move a lot, mainly because i have 1 directional attack but also because rear attacks does not miss as much. Since you say that Blast and swamp are your major attacks these could be used from the rear with greater accuracy, i know this for Guardians would require equipping a shield to stun then turn to the back and then reequip the dual wielder, but is this a way to increase your dps, or atleast to keep your major damage dealers hitting for max.

Not a bad idea in theory, but i just want to point out some facts. Shield stun lasts for about 2-3 seconds. It takes 3-4 seconds in a fight to deequip or reequip an items. So by the time we fired off and tried switching back.....we'd have lost a lot of health lol. Maybe if they reduced equiping recast and increased shield stun time it would work, but who knows....

Great job Ladicav.....just need the trolls of the guard forums to go post some parsers now hehe.

*Edit* Just got an idea, how about if you post the damage taken also....if we could compare that to other classes it might show something too(ability to tank and nonsuch). I dunno if this is worthwhile, just throwing it out there.

Message Edited by Crim001 on 01-26-200604:59 PM

Ladicav · 01-27-2006, 07:23 AM

Crim001 wrote:
*Edit* Just got an idea, how about if you post the damage taken also....if we could compare that to other classes it might show something too(ability to tank and nonsuch). I dunno if this is worthwhile, just throwing it out there.
Message Edited by Crim001 on 01-26-200604:59 PM

Well I will be soonish. I have been doing lots of logging against fighting yellow con heroics, just to see how the numbers compare, including damage taken and also worked out to parse the contributions of the various CA's and procs individually.

Would still love to compare figures with other fighters, if there are any volunteers.

Message Edited by Ladicav on 01-26-200606:24 PM

mastersard · 01-27-2006, 09:22 AM

/looks around for other fighters who will parse and post...

Burningho · 01-28-2006, 01:44 AM

mastersardis wrote:
/looks around for other fighters who will parse and post...

I still say it will take a Guardian with a fighter alt. You know other classes have done the same test to see how they compare to Guardians, but still none have posted their results. I just don't expect other classes will post any concrete numbers here for fear of being flamed or nerfed. I mean, what would happen if a Bruiser did the same testing and posted an average of 400 dps?

mastersard · 01-28-2006, 03:45 AM

They'd say:

"But Guardians tank better, so it's ok."

MoonglumHMV · 01-28-2006, 03:52 AM

Just to defend my class a little SMILEY

I'm only 42, if you are interested in any testing I can do at that level I'd be more than happy to post them.

Wasuna · 01-28-2006, 03:57 AM

MoonglumHMV wrote:
Just to defend my class a little I'm only 42, if you are interested in any testing I can do at that level I'd be more than happy to post them.

Thank ya for the offer. But I expect most of us want the level 60 brawlers that come here and tell us the shut the **** up and be happy to step up and show the numbers.

mastersard · 01-28-2006, 04:02 AM

Wasuna wrote:
Thank ya for the offer. But I expect most of us want the level 60 brawlers that come here and tell us the shut the **** up and be happy to step up and show the numbers.

They're like Cops...never around when you need one.

Wasuna · 01-28-2006, 04:13 AM

The following link is from a wizard that is comparing DPS to a bunch of otehr classes. If you scroll WAY down to the bottom you can see a bunch of groups in a bunch of different raid fights and see the DPS of each class. There are some Guardians and some brawlers there.

Not really definative but it starts to show where we stand.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=90215

Crim001 · 01-28-2006, 04:40 AM

mastersardis wrote:
They'd say:
"But Guardians tank better, so it's ok."

This is why I would want to see the damage received/ % hp at end of fight. If they have same amount of HP/damage taken then theres something wrong. Highly unlikely that this will happen, but still worth a shot to stop flames and complaints from certain other peeps/classes *cough cough*.

mastersard · 01-29-2006, 01:03 AM

Danan has doe a parse or 3, over on Ladicav's first post. Good info there.

Danan · 01-29-2006, 01:27 AM

mastersardis wrote:
Danan has doe a parse or 3, over on Ladicav's first post. Good info there.

Yeah was waiting on a 60 guard to actually make a few parses that i could repeat that wouldnt vary to much, the parses that Wabit produced was easy to compare to, results can be see here.

Wabit · 02-06-2006, 04:42 PM

ok i was extremely bored after the Superbowl so i grabed a heroic writ for LT kill 20 commerce sentinels lvl 53ish ^^^ (~18,100 HP mobs)... i only used off stance and just sword and board (prizzy2 sword)...

my stats : str 432, attack 1184, mit 3450, avoidance 37.7%, haste 22% (belt), 7k HP...

CA's: these are the only ones i used

M2: call of defence
M1: hew, blast, desperate charge, staggering rush, swamp, buffet, return to battle
adept3: relentless charge, overpower, quelling strike, perfect strike, protect, confront, steely conviction, call to war, unyeilding vigilance

chart will read: time (secs) / dps / hits / swings / damage taken /times hit

69 / 263.35 / 104 / 105 / 357 / 2 (i bow pulled this one only)
63 / 289.17 / 91 / 91 / 1525 / 9
63 / 287.83 / 100 / 100 / 1886 / 9
71 / 256.80 / 108 / 108 / 2480 / 23
66 / 275.29 / 94 / 94 / 1928 / 10
64 / 282.91 / 96 / 96 / 2337 / 11
60 / 301.77 / 90 / 90 / 2233 / 9
67 / 270.49 / 101 / 101 / 1078 / 10
63 / 278.19 / 91 / 91 / 2519 / 22
63 / 290.08 / 99 / 99 / 1648 / 9
60 / 305.90 / 100 / 100 / 1724 / 8
62 / 292.53 / 101 / 101 / 1888 / 9
66 / 276.33 / 101 / 101 / 2335 / 16
68 / 267.76 / 95 / 95 / 2997 / 14
60 / 303.28 / 104 / 104 / 2739 / 22
59 / 302.73 / 98 / 98 / 1738 / 18
70 / 259.93 / 107 / 107 / 1060 / 5
68 / 266.60 / 101 / 101 / 2301 / 16
60 / 302.10 / 100 / 100 / 1925 / 10
61 / 297.36 / 91 / 91 / 1616 / 8

now soloing i try to be as mana efficent as possiable, while also taking the least possibale damage... i try to time my stun/interupts/pacify to the greatest effect... there wasn't a single fight i used blast twice... and i ended each fight around 50% mana... and averaged 5HOs per fight...

ehh i said i'd post these sometime... today was when sheer boredom overtook me...

01-25-2006, 05:40 AM	#31
Burningho Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 103	Wasuna wrote: Guardians DPS in defensive tanking group buffed - 190 Guardians DPS in offensive non-tanking group buffed - 220 That is right on with my experience too. There just does not seem to be a significant enough difference when using our offensive stance. __________________

01-25-2006, 08:56 AM	#32
Ladicav Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 212	Wasuna wrote: I don't have the parses but I have been running a montered parser in Poets Palace the last few days. I have been getting a feel for what I and other in my group can do. The following is what my feel is: I'm level 60 with poets shield and the 1HS fabled weapon from Cazels. My 1H/shield combo is almost as as much DPS as my 2HS cobalt so I just don't change out. Guardians DPS in defensive tanking group buffed - 190 Guardians DPS in offensive non-tanking group buffed - 220 The worst part is that I usually JUST barely out DPS'ed the conjuor pet in most fights but that doesn't even count the conjours spells. Also, I told the conjour I was beating his pet and he said he keeps itout part of the fight so it wouldn't steal agro. I did all but the last 4 fights of very difficult last night without a stance and didn't even notice it. I agree with your findings. I did all those tests a week ago against all those straight up yellow con gnolls in sinking sands without using any combat arts, and collated and presented the results. For anyone else who didn't see this already, click the link....http://members.optushome.com.au/ladicav/Parse.htm I agree on your point about no stance, it's a nothing stance. Going from defensive stance > no stance, or offensive stance > no stance in both cases didn't significantly boost any performance enough to be viable. I never use no stance now. My parses also agree with there only being a roughly 20 - 25 average dps difference between offensive stance and defensive stance, in the same the weapon configuration. I counted about 77 average dps in defensive stance to 103 average dps in offensive with dual wield and 55 average dps in defensive stance to 77 average dps in offensive stance with 1h/shield. So now I use mainly only defensive stance 1h/shield and offensive stance d/w because the difference between them is a lot more significant and viable to switch.

01-27-2006, 03:27 AM	#33
Burningho Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 103	Has anyone run these same tests on a non-Guardian fighter (i.e. solo dps in full offensive stance against the same mobs)? Message Edited by Burninghope on 01-26-200602:29 PM __________________

01-27-2006, 05:48 AM	#34
Crim001 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Somewhere in the middle of nowhere in So Cal Posts: 305	Dananeb wrote: Great work Ladicav, I do have a question though and allow me to explain first. Whne i solo as a bruiser I move a lot, mainly because i have 1 directional attack but also because rear attacks does not miss as much. Since you say that Blast and swamp are your major attacks these could be used from the rear with greater accuracy, i know this for Guardians would require equipping a shield to stun then turn to the back and then reequip the dual wielder, but is this a way to increase your dps, or atleast to keep your major damage dealers hitting for max. Not a bad idea in theory, but i just want to point out some facts. Shield stun lasts for about 2-3 seconds. It takes 3-4 seconds in a fight to deequip or reequip an items. So by the time we fired off and tried switching back.....we'd have lost a lot of health lol. Maybe if they reduced equiping recast and increased shield stun time it would work, but who knows.... Great job Ladicav.....just need the trolls of the guard forums to go post some parsers now hehe. Edit Just got an idea, how about if you post the damage taken also....if we could compare that to other classes it might show something too(ability to tank and nonsuch). I dunno if this is worthwhile, just throwing it out there. Message Edited by Crim001 on 01-26-200604:59 PM __________________

01-27-2006, 07:23 AM	#35
Ladicav Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 212	Crim001 wrote: Edit Just got an idea, how about if you post the damage taken also....if we could compare that to other classes it might show something too(ability to tank and nonsuch). I dunno if this is worthwhile, just throwing it out there. Message Edited by Crim001 on 01-26-200604:59 PM Well I will be soonish. I have been doing lots of logging against fighting yellow con heroics, just to see how the numbers compare, including damage taken and also worked out to parse the contributions of the various CA's and procs individually. Would still love to compare figures with other fighters, if there are any volunteers. Message Edited by Ladicav on 01-26-200606:24 PM

01-27-2006, 09:22 AM	#36
mastersard Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 403	/looks around for other fighters who will parse and post...

01-28-2006, 01:44 AM	#37
Burningho Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 103	mastersardis wrote: /looks around for other fighters who will parse and post... I still say it will take a Guardian with a fighter alt. You know other classes have done the same test to see how they compare to Guardians, but still none have posted their results. I just don't expect other classes will post any concrete numbers here for fear of being flamed or nerfed. I mean, what would happen if a Bruiser did the same testing and posted an average of 400 dps? __________________

01-28-2006, 03:45 AM	#38
mastersard Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 403	They'd say: "But Guardians tank better, so it's ok."

01-28-2006, 03:52 AM	#39
MoonglumHMV Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 226	Just to defend my class a little I'm only 42, if you are interested in any testing I can do at that level I'd be more than happy to post them. __________________ Moonfire - 59 Ogre Monk Ziofan - 36 Dwarf Fury Peski 33 Ogre Coercer Theleb 24 Dark Elf Warlock Moonglum 24 Iksar Brigand Moonfire 12 Sarnak Berserker Moonfyst 19 Ratonga Bruiser

01-28-2006, 03:57 AM	#40
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	MoonglumHMV wrote: Just to defend my class a little I'm only 42, if you are interested in any testing I can do at that level I'd be more than happy to post them. Thank ya for the offer. But I expect most of us want the level 60 brawlers that come here and tell us the shut the **** up and be happy to step up and show the numbers. __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

01-28-2006, 04:02 AM	#41
mastersard Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 403	Wasuna wrote: Thank ya for the offer. But I expect most of us want the level 60 brawlers that come here and tell us the shut the **** up and be happy to step up and show the numbers. They're like Cops...never around when you need one.

01-28-2006, 04:13 AM	#42
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	The following link is from a wizard that is comparing DPS to a bunch of otehr classes. If you scroll WAY down to the bottom you can see a bunch of groups in a bunch of different raid fights and see the DPS of each class. There are some Guardians and some brawlers there. Not really definative but it starts to show where we stand. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=90215 __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

01-28-2006, 04:40 AM	#43
Crim001 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Somewhere in the middle of nowhere in So Cal Posts: 305	mastersardis wrote: They'd say: "But Guardians tank better, so it's ok." This is why I would want to see the damage received/ % hp at end of fight. If they have same amount of HP/damage taken then theres something wrong. Highly unlikely that this will happen, but still worth a shot to stop flames and complaints from certain other peeps/classes cough cough. __________________

01-29-2006, 01:03 AM	#44
mastersard Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 403	Danan has doe a parse or 3, over on Ladicav's first post. Good info there.

01-29-2006, 01:27 AM	#45
Danan General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 210	mastersardis wrote: Danan has doe a parse or 3, over on Ladicav's first post. Good info there. Yeah was waiting on a 60 guard to actually make a few parses that i could repeat that wouldnt vary to much, the parses that Wabit produced was easy to compare to, results can be see here. __________________

02-06-2006, 04:42 PM	#46
Wabit Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 802	ok i was extremely bored after the Superbowl so i grabed a heroic writ for LT kill 20 commerce sentinels lvl 53ish ^^^ (~18,100 HP mobs)... i only used off stance and just sword and board (prizzy2 sword)... my stats : str 432, attack 1184, mit 3450, avoidance 37.7%, haste 22% (belt), 7k HP... CA's: these are the only ones i used M2: call of defence M1: hew, blast, desperate charge, staggering rush, swamp, buffet, return to battle adept3: relentless charge, overpower, quelling strike, perfect strike, protect, confront, steely conviction, call to war, unyeilding vigilance chart will read: time (secs) / dps / hits / swings / damage taken /times hit 69 / 263.35 / 104 / 105 / 357 / 2 (i bow pulled this one only) 63 / 289.17 / 91 / 91 / 1525 / 9 63 / 287.83 / 100 / 100 / 1886 / 9 71 / 256.80 / 108 / 108 / 2480 / 23 66 / 275.29 / 94 / 94 / 1928 / 10 64 / 282.91 / 96 / 96 / 2337 / 11 60 / 301.77 / 90 / 90 / 2233 / 9 67 / 270.49 / 101 / 101 / 1078 / 10 63 / 278.19 / 91 / 91 / 2519 / 22 63 / 290.08 / 99 / 99 / 1648 / 9 60 / 305.90 / 100 / 100 / 1724 / 8 62 / 292.53 / 101 / 101 / 1888 / 9 66 / 276.33 / 101 / 101 / 2335 / 16 68 / 267.76 / 95 / 95 / 2997 / 14 60 / 303.28 / 104 / 104 / 2739 / 22 59 / 302.73 / 98 / 98 / 1738 / 18 70 / 259.93 / 107 / 107 / 1060 / 5 68 / 266.60 / 101 / 101 / 2301 / 16 60 / 302.10 / 100 / 100 / 1925 / 10 61 / 297.36 / 91 / 91 / 1616 / 8 now soloing i try to be as mana efficent as possiable, while also taking the least possibale damage... i try to time my stun/interupts/pacify to the greatest effect... there wasn't a single fight i used blast twice... and i ended each fight around 50% mana... and averaged 5HOs per fight... ehh i said i'd post these sometime... today was when sheer boredom overtook me... __________________ Wabit- 80 guardian Trixr- 70 carpenter - Oasis (part time Warden) Thoog- 80 monk - Oasis