The end of Nagafen PVP

[Damurderer]

    Recently the writs revived the server.  Everyday there was tons of pvp action in every t8 zone.  Whether you like the writs or not you have to admit that was the busiest this server has been in a very long time.  It gave the factions a chance to gear up with gear almost equal to the exiles on this server.  Now, because the Sony's servers cant handle that many people in one zone pvping, they have taken away our chance to gear up.  All the while the exiles have been clearing VP for months and now most of onyx have their mythical weapons.   Exiles have destroyed the way pvp was meant to be.  It was originally a war between Qeynos and Freeport.  Now it is a server dominated by exiles, while the factions scrape to get decent gear from instances.  How is the average player meant to compete with people in full VP gear and mythical weapons?  Something needs to be done or when Warhammer goes live Nagafen will be a ghost town, I only fear it isn't to little to late.  There is no communication between SoE and the playerbase, they leave us in the dark like it is a matter of national security.   The devs are never seen or heard from.  Occasionally you will see Gm sinkenn sitting in QH, but he just says dumb stuff and will never answer any questions.  Sony, people are already waiting for you to screw this game up like you did SWG, We are not gonna take much more.  Possibly when you see subscriptions being canceled left and right maybe you will make an active effort to fix this game, only problem is that by then it will be to late.

[Gimet]

[Amphibia]

I bet they're trying to solve the issue. This is just a temporary solution, for sure. However, they do need to start communicating some more. Just one post from a dev to explain what's going on would have been nice.

[Allena]

A new writ system isent enough anymore - gameplay is unbalanced, open all classes to city factions or remove Haven. Otherwise Im done. 2 weeks before before I cancel my accounts.  FFS developers, post something at least so people know if were wasting our time...

[Pumancat]

 I'm not trying to flame Naggy as I play on Venekor, But seems to me you got what you asked for so many months/years ago.

 When Sony made the free server transfers, we lost alot of good people to the claims of Naggy being for "hardcore" PVPers who wanted more FFA style PVP. Even still at this time the closest way to have that is by being exile.

Seems your main gripe is that Exile factions are outnumbering the City factions. Maybe those of you who want to play the more " game oriented "  City factioned PVP, should think about comming over to Venny or Vox, and let the " Hardcore" have their FFA style.

Anarcheru - 80 Bruiser

Venekor server

[Csky]

make PVP gear and weapons have PVP only bonuses and make it the BEST gear for PVP since it was attained in PVP

and let exiles raid all they want for thier PVE gear which was attained in PVE....problem solved

the writ system DOES need changes tho,  theres no reason raids should be gettinbg free tokens..and for a raid to have a writ to kill only 5 people between them is a JOKE..im glad the writ giver was broken it should be a wake up call for SoE.. i think epic type writs are in order for raids that only update vs other raids

[Crimmyblues]

Screw it, lets keep crashing the servers for lulz.

[kresh_azzo]

I guess this explains my problem of not being about to walk through the gates of noob town without getting ganked. I'll roll a different server. Thanks for the head's up...

[Novusod]

They just need to get rid of raid updates for writs and there wouldn't be a problem. If you kill someone while in raid formation you get no credit. It is as simple as that.

[Shadow_Viper]

Shame that.

Venekor's doing great btw.

[Shadow_Viper]

Novusod wrote:

They just need to get rid of raid updates for writs and there wouldn't be a problem. If you kill someone while in raid formation you get no credit. It is as simple as that.

Try forming a raid of your own and challenging the enemy raid.

[Norrsken]

Shadow_Viper wrote:

Novusod wrote:

They just need to get rid of raid updates for writs and there wouldn't be a problem. If you kill someone while in raid formation you get no credit. It is as simple as that.

Try forming a raid of your own and challenging the enemy raid.

Heh. one man raid then?

[bladechef]

Damurderer wrote:

    Recently the writs revived the server.  Everyday there was tons of pvp action in every t8 zone.  Whether you like the writs or not you have to admit that was the busiest this server has been in a very long time.  It gave the factions a chance to gear up with gear almost equal to the exiles on this server.  Now, because the Sony's servers cant handle that many people in one zone pvping, they have taken away our chance to gear up.  All the while the exiles have been clearing VP for months and now most of onyx have their mythical weapons.   Exiles have destroyed the way pvp was meant to be.  It was originally a war between Qeynos and Freeport.  Now it is a server dominated by exiles, while the factions scrape to get decent gear from instances.  How is the average player meant to compete with people in full VP gear and mythical weapons?  Something needs to be done or when Warhammer goes live Nagafen will be a ghost town, I only fear it isn't to little to late.  There is no communication between SoE and the playerbase, they leave us in the dark like it is a matter of national security.   The devs are never seen or heard from.  Occasionally you will see Gm sinkenn sitting in QH, but he just says dumb stuff and will never answer any questions.  Sony, people are already waiting for you to screw this game up like you did SWG, We are not gonna take much more.  Possibly when you see subscriptions being canceled left and right maybe you will make an active effort to fix this game, only problem is that by then it will be to late.

RED = [Removed for Content]

Green = I fully agree

This Color = This business is about to give me serious medical concerns because I can't stop laughing and catch a [I cannot control my vocabulary] breath

At least you did not forget to include that it was SoE's hardware that was the issue to begin with... but the mark was definitely missed.  That 3-day zergfest represents quite a bit of pent-up token lust, whouldn't you say?  So many feeling entitled to their tokens and their PvP gear that titles, strategy, personal PvP ethics... everything right out the window.  And proves that for no small number of folks the reward truly is the only reason to PvP.

Saying that Sony has taken away your *only* chance to gear up to a level that you feel you deserve, and moreover implying that it has been removed indefinitely, is asinine.  Lag has been an issue for EVERY server since LU43 (Including blue servers) and SOE has been working to discover the problem.  That said, Nagafen is the ONLY server to have crashed.  And not just once, but three consecutive days.  The last of those days having seen it come down 5 times.  That is unacceptable.  It is due 100% to the PvP frenzy that had been raging across 3 seperate instances of KP for hours.  It is unacceptable because it affects every player in every zone and thus is a far more pressing issue than what you (PvP gear-seekers) want in the short term.  SOE did what they are known for doing and overnerfed the problem, true, but the quest-givers will be back.  Perhaps look at it from thier PoV?

Have some [I cannot control my vocabulary] patience.  Factioned players have [I cannot control my vocabulary] no end concerning the PvP writs as if they changed the game in some drastic way.  Take 2 seconds and forget about your [I cannot control my vocabulary] gear and play the game for a while... you might actually enjoy it more if you go do some of the things that you find interesting/fun instead of basing fun off of the rewards you expect that you deserve.  seriously [I cannot control my vocabulary]

[Geoff]

Saying the lag is SOE's fault is like blaming an airline for a plane not being able to take off because all the passengers weigh 500 lbs.

It was gluttony and greed that caused the lag, nothing else.  No one in their right mind could possibly think that that was "pvp", and that you weren't gaining tokens in a way that was not intended by the devs (p.s. that is the definition of exploiting).  If you have the audacity to contest that point, then you truely are too far gone to have a rational discussion on the matter.  Not to mention the irony in that the loudest people I'd seen clamoring about pvp rewards are the ones with some of the least amount of kills, far far down on their classes pvp kill list.  It's a pvp reward, it should reward the players that pvp.  And that is why there has been so much whining...ton of non-pvp'ers who want easymode raid gear so that they can do their instances and the rest of their PvE stuff and continue on avoiding pvp afterwards.

[KaiZas]

So very true. The client can hardly cope with 24 people fighting a couple of mobs without grinding to a halt unless you bring your settings down. What did they think would happen to the server when 2 x4's met up. Or more. Spread over several instances.I've participated in one KP raid, the day after the writs were brought to the servers. We had several encounters, all of which were just complete and utter chaos. There's no way to coordinate a raid properly in pvp when the foe you're fighting doesn't adhere to set patterns like they do in proper raid instances, so it just became a "tag as many as you can"-fest, pressing a button, waiting 5 seconds for the game to register your actions. That is by no stretch of the imagination pvp, if you ask me. After the fight there was a lot of cheering, everybody was thrilled to be doing it. I just couldn't see the attraction and left.

[Amatheon]

Are you guys for real?  This is a massively multiplayer game for gods sakes.  Daoc handled 300 person fights 10 times better than eq2 handles x4 vs x4.  Now the folks in the game might have taken advantage of a system but the system is still broken.  Are you saying that SoE's plan was to have minor skirmishes when it was supposedly billed and Freeport vs Qeynos.  So let me get this straight its Freeport vs Qeynos vs Exile only about 6 to 12 at a time though please.  Give me a break.

[Csky]

are you honestly comparing a realm vs realm battlefield and large scale warfare game with no PVE involved to a PVE game where the PVP is an added bonus on PVP servers???

 massive multiplayer doesnt mean we are all playing in the same battle at once.. this ISNT a battlefield type of game..was never advertised to be a battlefield type of game and never will be a battlefield type of game

so LOL @ this thread

[Statewrestler101]

read my post please if you want my 2 cents lol... but yes the servers in EQ2 are horrible sure... but it still doesnt mean they can halt factions the way they did and let exiles continue... the pvp was sparked and a raging flame... now it is nothing more than a flicker of light

[Geoff]

Amatheon@Nagafen wrote:

Are you guys for real?  This is a massively multiplayer game for gods sakes.  Daoc handled 300 person fights 10 times better than eq2 handles x4 vs x4.  Now the folks in the game might have taken advantage of a system but the system is still broken.  Are you saying that SoE's plan was to have minor skirmishes when it was supposedly billed and Freeport vs Qeynos.  So let me get this straight its Freeport vs Qeynos vs Exile only about 6 to 12 at a time though please.  Give me a break.

Any explanation as to why has it never happened before the the last couple days (pre easy writs), and since the writ guys were removed? 

[Csky]

stop running around zerging and calling it PVP and the servers will be just fine..breaking the servers should be a big red flag that you are not playing the game the way it was intended to be played

[Amatheon]

Fiz are you honestly saying you did nto get lag in a x4 vs a x4.  Any raid vs raid I got lag not as bad mind you but come on they put in a system that sucks.  DoM saying no to exploits is like the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.  You guys are clean and fun to fight now but previously you were notorious so get off your high horse.

[zorros]

Amatheon@Nagafen wrote:

Fiz are you honestly saying you did nto get lag in a x4 vs a x4.  Any raid vs raid I got lag not as bad mind you but come on they put in a system that sucks.  DoM saying no to exploits is like the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.  You guys are clean and fun to fight now but previously you were notorious so get off your high horse.

LOL. Den of Madness talking about exploits and lag is just lulz. You guys where the biggest exploiters in the game and should have been banned along time ago.

As for the writ system, yep they sucked. It was not thought out properly it was never tested on pvp test mainly because there wasnt one and really after all this time making writs update on raids is just plan stupid.

Easy fixs are make recent list much bigger dont put a writ giver in open zones and close to docks. Dont get updates in raids. Make it so exiles cant pvp. Simple fix.

Btw Amatheon is fat

[Butcher]

My suggestions for fixing faction pvp on Nagafen:

Put the writ givers only in the faction cities and increase the number of kills required (opposing faction or exile) and increase the number of tokens rewarded.  Only allow Freeps to turn in at the Freeport writ giver and the same for the Q's in Qeynos.  This would stop the constant battles at the writ givers and end the need to constantly return to the writ giver for turn ins.  The kill to token ratio can be adjusted easily if it turns out that people are earning tokens too easily or quickly.  I would think this would reduce the number of multi raid battles that caused the crashes and end the skillless and too quick accumulation of tokens that had been happening.  Raid level pvp would be nice but the servers just cant handle it.  As a result the battles that were happening involved very little skill and almost no strategy.  It was just lag out and aoe and wait to hear the kills "ding" off.  Profitable from a token sense but not fun and certainly not what the designers intended or true pvpers would want. 

Another solution would be to do away with the writ givers and tokens altogether.  Simply have the pvp merchants offer a quest to kill a certain (large) number of hostiles (exile or opposing faction) with the reward being a choice of certain, class appropriate pvp pieces.  More kills for the better pieces (like chest and legs), less for the lesser items. 

Of course an upgrade to the servers so that they could handle large scale pvp battles when they do happen would be nice but I doubt we will ever see that. 

Im a faction player (Freeport/Insurrection) and even I am getting tired of hearing faction players complain about the exiles.  Sure I cringe everytime I see the server announcement when another exile gets a mythical and [Removed for Content] sure I hate dieing to them, but not all exiles are getting mythicals.  It's just the top people in Onyx and (at the moment) Onyx is the most powerful guild on the server.  Sure they have some advantages over faction guilds in raiding but its not like VP is easy on a blue server. No other exile guild is having success to the extent they are and if they are powerful enough to block all other guilds (Freeps, Q's and Exiles) from getting to VP then more power to em.   Life on a pvp server is tough, it's supposed to be.  Of course I wouldnt shed a tear if they did away with the exile faction all together and concentrated on the battle of Freeps vs Q's but I think the exiles are here to stay.

Insurrection is having success in t8 and is close to getting into VP.  When we do it is only a matter of time before we clear it and at that point we will have the best of both worlds.  VP gear, pvp gear and mythicals.  And the satisfaction of having done it the supposedly "impossible" way, with only faction classes.  After all, the accomplishments of Onyx in VP and with mythicals is no greater than what dozens of other guilds have done on the blue servers when raiding with all the classes.  Im not saying it is easy or doesnt deserve respect but it is not special.  Clearing VP and earning mythicals with a faction guild is something very special.   When we finally do it we will really have done something unique and have a right to be very proud.  I would take the trade off of a few months time and a few (dozen) butt kickings for that feeling any day.

[bladechef]

Butcher wrote:

My suggestions for fixing faction pvp on Nagafen:

Put the writ givers only in the faction cities and increase the number of kills required (opposing faction or exile) and increase the number of tokens rewarded.  Only allow Freeps to turn in at the Freeport writ giver and the same for the Q's in Qeynos.  This would stop the constant battles at the writ givers and end the need to constantly return to the writ giver for turn ins.  The kill to token ratio can be adjusted easily if it turns out that people are earning tokens too easily or quickly.  I would think this would reduce the number of multi raid battles that caused the crashes and end the skillless and too quick accumulation of tokens that had been happening.  Raid level pvp would be nice but the servers just cant handle it.  As a result the battles that were happening involved very little skill and almost no strategy.  It was just lag out and aoe and wait to hear the kills "ding" off.  Profitable from a token sense but not fun and certainly not what the designers intended or true pvpers would want. 

Another solution would be to do away with the writ givers and tokens altogether.  Simply have the pvp merchants offer a quest to kill a certain (large) number of hostiles (exile or opposing faction) with the reward being a choice of certain, class appropriate pvp pieces.  More kills for the better pieces (like chest and legs), less for the lesser items. 

Of course an upgrade to the servers so that they could handle large scale pvp battles when they do happen would be nice but I doubt we will ever see that. 

Im a faction player (Freeport/Insurrection) and even I am getting tired of hearing faction players complain about the exiles.  Sure I cringe everytime I see the server announcement when another exile gets a mythical and [I cannot control my vocabulary] sure I hate dieing to them, but not all exiles are getting mythicals.  It's just the top people in Onyx and (at the moment) Onyx is the most powerful guild on the server.  Sure they have some advantages over faction guilds in raiding but its not like VP is easy on a blue server. No other exile guild is having success to the extent they are and if they are powerful enough to block all other guilds (Freeps, Q's and Exiles) from getting to VP then more power to em.   Life on a pvp server is tough, it's supposed to be.  Of course I wouldnt shed a tear if they did away with the exile faction all together and concentrated on the battle of Freeps vs Q's but I think the exiles are here to stay.

Insurrection is having success in t8 and is close to getting into VP.  When we do it is only a matter of time before we clear it and at that point we will have the best of both worlds.  VP gear, pvp gear and mythicals.  And the satisfaction of having done it the supposedly "impossible" way, with only faction classes.  After all, the accomplishments of Onyx in VP and with mythicals is no greater than what dozens of other guilds have done on the blue servers when raiding with all the classes.  Im not saying it is easy or doesnt deserve respect but it is not special.  Clearing VP and earning mythicals with a faction guild is something very special.   When we finally do it we will really have done something unique and have a right to be very proud.  I would take the trade off of a few months time and a few (dozen) butt kickings for that feeling any day.

ilu

Stellar attitude and excellent appraoch to the problem.  I wish more players in the factions had the same outlook, but unfortuately most do not.  I was proud of Europa (the enemy) when they cleared EH and I will be more proud of Insurrection should they reapeat that effort in the T8 raiding scene.

Gratz on Overking btw

[Butcher]

A further refinement could involve giving partial credit for kills.  For instance when a solo person kills another solo person he gets credit for one kill.  When a group of 6 kills a single person (solo or group) they each get credit for 1/6 of a full kill.  When a full group of 6 kills a full group of 6 they would each get credit for one full kill.  And so on.  When a raid rolls a single person each person would get credit for only 1/24th of a full kill.  Your quest journal would "ding" everytime a full kill or enough partial kills to add up to a full kill registered and there could even be some type of slash command to view your partial kill progress. This would balance things out considerably, revive solo and small group pvp for people and guilds who prefer that (or dont have a choice) and still allow pvp raids to accumulate kills.  Im not a coder so I dont know if this is easily implementable or even possible with the current game engine but Im sure it would be an improvement.

[Csky]

thats a good idea actually,  it would have to be some kind of a point system instead of kill count

[Chia_Pet]

Csky wrote:

thats a good idea actually,  it would have to be some kind of a point system instead of kill count

No its not, that just goes back to favoring the solo classes over the  group classes.1 through 6 PvP is fine, its Raid PvP that needs to be changed.As far as writ givers thats easy.make seperate faction writ givers in each zone, place em 1/3 to 1/2 a zone away from each other, and watch everyone fight in the middle.Sony just doesnt have a clue what they are doing half the time, i cant remember an actual performance update, they dont even care about that.

[Csky]

Chia_Pet wrote:

Csky wrote:

thats a good idea actually,  it would have to be some kind of a point system instead of kill count

No its not, that just goes back to favoring the solo classes over the  group classes.1 through 6 PvP is fine, its Raid PvP that needs to be changed.As far as writ givers thats easy.make seperate faction writ givers in each zone, place em 1/3 to 1/2 a zone away from each other, and watch everyone fight in the middle.Sony just doesnt have a clue what they are doing half the time, i cant remember an actual performance update, they dont even care about that.

well as it is now the system only favors zergers who run around in numbers and use 0 skill..if you think 20+ people running around with the objective to kill 5 people between them is reward worthy LOL..that isnt even PVP

  soloers at least they earned thier kills and the reward system wasnt the problem it was = scouts..the problem with scouts is they have tools that dont belong on a PVP server like tracking and evac that works while they are being hit and on the run ..disable those tools on PVP servers and tell me how much the system favors solo clases

just so you know,  i dont play a scout i play a visible class who solos and duos and id 100x rather have a scout jump me and possibly get his [I cannot control my vocabulary] handed to him then a zerg jump me i stand 0 chance against that turned my char from a pali to a token vendor that just spit out 20 unearned tokens

 i dont know where these tokens that you say were coming in from soloing because kills didnt come pouring in on a visible solo/duo class as a matter of fact i only had 100 kills by level 45 because i actually had to put effort and risk into the PVP

the old system with token body drops was right in line with DAoC and other PVP games reward system..if you kill someone with a group in daoc you get 200-300 rps each.if you zerg them with numbers you get 1 - 25 RPs each .if you solo that person you get 2k RPs and thats a large scale warfare game. but Hmmmmm they dont favor soloing even tho the reward is greater for winning with less, as it should be

 this isnt a battlefield game its a PVE game with world skirmishes and you guys are trying to turn it into battlefield2000 because its raining tokens..im glad the writ givers are broken i hope they dont come back

[Armironhead]

Fizantalus@Nagafen wrote:

Saying the lag is SOE's fault is like blaming an airline for a plane not being able to take off because all the passengers weigh 500 lbs.

It was gluttony and greed that caused the lag, nothing else.  No one in their right mind could possibly think that that was "pvp", and that you weren't gaining tokens in a way that was not intended by the devs (p.s. that is the definition of exploiting).  If you have the audacity to contest that point, then you truely are too far gone to have a rational discussion on the matter.  Not to mention the irony in that the loudest people I'd seen clamoring about pvp rewards are the ones with some of the least amount of kills, far far down on their classes pvp kill list.  It's a pvp reward, it should reward the players that pvp.  And that is why there has been so much whining...ton of non-pvp'ers who want easymode raid gear so that they can do their instances and the rest of their PvE stuff and continue on avoiding pvp afterwards.

please -- soe knows how many players are on its servers and what the capacity of their servers is.  If an airline allowed its plane to be filled with 500lbs passengers and then tried to take off, only the airline would be at fault.  Here, soe allowed all these folks to get on naggy and then created incentives for them to play all at once.  ergo soe only has it self to blame for this [Removed for Content].  In the mean time, it will be interesting to see if naggy players now migrate to either ven or vox.  I know that on vox there has been a fair amount of end game pvp and no where near the problems of naggy.

[Bloodfa]

The day after the writs went live, the tradskills were empty.  The instances ... empty.  People you've never seen or heard from before acting like badasses and taunting the enemy in OOC and shouts.  Guys decked out in raid gear looking for tokens.  Yep, it was abused.  Doesn't make it right that there's currently no reward for PvP, other than coin drops, but on the upside, I'm getting plenty of opportunities to work on zone faction.  /shrug  Looks like it's back to PvE after all.