T8 overpowered most folk for fun pvp?

KaiZas · 02-03-2008, 10:47 PM

I'm trying to come to terms with pvp as it stands today, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Here's why:There's a lot of classes that can just disable you completely during the entire 3 second fight. You get a stun and then they kill you in 3 strokes. I know there's supposed to be stuff to counter that, but there simply isn't time when you get jumped by them. So many deaths even trying to register there was a fight in the first place, no fun at all.For some reason, all opposing faction players turn out to be brigands. All of them. Most of them corspe-hump after the fight. Pixel-toons. Toons that are exactly 3 pixels big. What's with all the size-altering items stacking? This has to be an oversight, right?Please please please try and balance the pvp experience. As it stands, there's realy no fun to be had when there are god-like classes walking around griefing the crap out of players. If it were skill, I could perhaps live with it, but it's just dev-given invincibility.

-Arctura- · 02-03-2008, 11:14 PM

KaiZas wrote:

I'm trying to come to terms with pvp as it stands today, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Some classes fare better in solo confrontations. If a player finds solo combat exceedingly difficult, they have the option of adapting through ingenuity or seeking advice, or staying in duos, trios or groups.There's a lot of classes that can just disable you ..... ....all opposing faction players turn out to be brigands. All of them. A strong sense of hostility towards brigands shows through in this thread. Perhaps the title should be modified to reflect the actual intention of this post and its message. (something related to brigs?)You get a stun and then they kill you in 3 strokes.Nowadays claims of 3-stroke kills are an exaggeration to be sure, unless fraps/logs/screenshots can be provided. Even with high damage combat arts, it takes a minimum of 4-8 combat arts for most encounters. I know there's supposed to be stuff to counter that, but there simply isn't time when you get jumped by them.There are copious amounts of resources on the broker that can help you prevent getting jumped in pvp combat. If you can avoid being jumped or stop them before they close in, you may have a chance.Consider your quick death a fitting punishment for being unobservant and/or unable to flee in a timely manner from a class who is based around, and relies upon head-on close-combat melee damage.example: A mack truck hits you really hard in the face, because you allowed it to run you over. Dont blame the truck for being overpowered, thats what happens when you try to block it with your face Perhaps try to shoot out its tires, jump out of the way, or blow it up with a rocket launcher before it runs you over ! (metaphorically speaking)....Most of them corspe-hump after the fight. Perhaps you should switch to Venekor where (most) people are nicer " />Pixel-toons. Toons that are exactly 3 pixels big. Extreme exaggeration. 3 pixels is a LITTLE bigger than ---> . <--- (2 pixels) If there is an issue with targeting people of such size, perhaps that can be amended, but no need to exaggerate like such.What's with all the size-altering items stacking? This has to be an oversight, right?If small-sized targeting is a problem (as some people claim), perhaps that can be fixed.Please please please try and balance the pvp experience. The development staff dedicated to PvP mechanics are always in the process of doing so, rest assured. But exaggerations do not bring instant results to a problem. Perhaps a dedicated thread related to a specific issue such as size-modifying items can be made up, with screenshots, fraps videos, log files, item descriptions, combat art descriptions, whatever. Solid proof to shed light on the issue that until such a time will always remain in the realm of 'heresay and conjecture'.As it stands, there's realy no fun to be had when there are god-like classes walking around..... The fun lies in learning how to stop/kill/flee these classes before they close the gap and are at point-blank-range. If anyone allows them to achieve this range, they SHOULD die. If it were skill, I could perhaps live with it, but it's just dev-given invincibility.What quantifies skill in this game? The speed at which people can react and press buttons? Knowing what buttons to push in what order?NO class is by default 'godlike and invincible'. There are good and bad players of all classes and races. Some simply have had more practice, and know the ins and outs of the system....griefing the crap out of players.Griefing is an entirely different issue. Even if 'balance' is achieved, players will always have the option to cause grief to another player in PvP.Griefing is not a class-related issue. Anyone can grief.Again, perhaps players who are unhappy with griefing, corpse humping and such activities will be happier on one of the other two servers, where such things do exist, but in much smaller amounts.

sokil · 02-03-2008, 11:58 PM

KaiZas wrote:

I'm trying to come to terms with pvp as it stands today, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Here's why:There's a lot of classes that can just disable you completely during the entire 3 second fight. You get a stun and then they kill you in 3 strokes. I know there's supposed to be stuff to counter that, but there simply isn't time when you get jumped by them. So many deaths even trying to register there was a fight in the first place, no fun at all.For some reason, all opposing faction players turn out to be brigands. All of them. Most of them corspe-hump after the fight. Pixel-toons. Toons that are exactly 3 pixels big. What's with all the size-altering items stacking? This has to be an oversight, right?Please please please try and balance the pvp experience. As it stands, there's realy no fun to be had when there are god-like classes walking around griefing the crap out of players. If it were skill, I could perhaps live with it, but it's just dev-given invincibility.

I would like to see pvp last longer than 5 sec (and I am a swashi) so when I want a 10 min fight I take my troub out and find a shaman or such and fight him for 2 hrs until he gives up and dies from bordom.

If someone is humping you.. speak to their guild leader and if that does not work then ignore it or reviv quickly. Anyone that does it does not require respect but its not as if humping you takes anything away from you.

There are multiple in game items to prevent stiffle, miz, stun etc

I agree.. 1 inch toons is annoying and they know it is hard to target them and that is why they do it!! Yes, it is a problem with multiple shrink items stacking. I bet all new scouts are the smallest possible toon just for that reason. /petition it.

So far I think soney has done well to try to balance pvp.. just wish they would not forget about diversity, skill and talent.

Faenril · 02-04-2008, 05:40 AM

Ok after hours of brainstorming here is a proposed solution to corpse humping: The immunity to corpse humping potion, call it "potion of free death" if you like (for similarity with free mind/free action). Tadaaa SMILEY

Basically it's a ward, that lasts, say 30 sec, and remains active after death (might need some coding effort here). While it is in effect nobody can sit on your corpse, the ennemy can try but nothing happens. So when you see your ennemy coming (or when something 1 pixel high starts beating hard on you), just quickly pop your potion ! The guy will still kill you in 3 sec but in the end you owned him because he can't corpse hump SMILEY

See the logic there ? omg I can't wait for that to be put in game !

Arielle Nightshade · 02-04-2008, 06:19 AM

How can you see if a 3 pixel high toon is humping you or not?

-Arctura- · 02-04-2008, 08:17 AM

Arielle Nightshade wrote:

How can you see if a 3 pixel high toon is humping you or not?

(( ROFL I guffawed at that SMILEY<img src=

" />(honey i shrunk the griefers? o.O

Rattfa · 02-04-2008, 08:38 AM

I think t8 has widened the gap between melee dps classes and casters...similar to how it was in t7 prior to the pvp 'balance'.Back in t7 I can remember having quite a lot of good 1v1s with Assassins and Brigands that would end up being quite close. I won my fair share. Now in t8 an Assassin can kill me before his stifle wears off. I don't think that is quite right.I have also been 2 shotted by a ranger, but I won't go there

ulleulle · 02-04-2008, 12:37 PM

I think the cat is out of the bag now Actura,,Dont hang on to old replies and ideas that t8 is balanced and some classes just need to buy pots/totems/etc to compeed..The fact is that t8 pvp is only a place to be if you A.play the right classb.play in the right guildsc.buy plat d.have a really really good idea off what eq2 pvp is really about and how it is played (That will most likely have come from playing one of the topdog classes in the first place)There are so many things wrong in t8 atm, that if sony dosent start hammering updates out and changes to pvp then this game will be nothing but a memory soon.And a memory of ganking ganking and more ganking.What went wrong sony!!!!! before rok came out the game was really starting to be playable for the people that dont play the few topclasses ..It was actually fun to pvp pre rok !!!But i guess you also need people in t8 so they will buy rok expansion..Money money money Cheers all

bladechef · 02-04-2008, 01:22 PM

I tend to disagree with Skree on general purpose most of the time... and playing a predator his replies are typical scout jibberjabber. I have seen a few recently that brought me close to the darkside thinking, " Hey! That guy just said something reasonable and if it weren't Skree I would agree 100% "

This isn't one of those posts, Arc

There is no balance in T8. Some classes can't compete. Other classes need no skill and little effort to dominate a solid player of the former.

This isn't a 'get advice' or L2P issue. Very good players are having the same troubles and it is undeniable how powerful some classes are while others remain a shade over helpless in terms of PvP against them

KaiZas · 02-04-2008, 02:21 PM

Well... Thank god for your replies. After I posted this and got the reply by -Arctura-, I really started to feel like it was all me, like I did something wrong. Thing is, I was actually doing fine pvp-wise from tiers 1 through 7, then all of a sudden the expantion hits and boom, I'm on the bottom, scraping by killing greens and blues just to hang on to my hunter title. I've changed my AA's several times to gain more imunities from stuns and the like, but as I have to activate them, they turn out to be quite useless in those 5 second fights.

Owa · 02-04-2008, 04:29 PM

Look, Swashies and Brigands have been easy-mode since the game itself launched, and when PvP came out evac and track made them even more godly. How can you argue with huge DPS, track, evac, great mitigation, great avoidance, great ripostes, raid utility and the game's best itemization? Anyone playing either of the Predator classes and who is not at least a General needs to see a doctor.Having said that, what are we going to do? All play Brigs and Swashies? (OK statistically I know most of you do). No - we hang in there in our class of choice and make the best of it. Personally I can't play them because I feel like I'm cheating all the time. Anyway, I have it on good authority that Scouts in general and Predators in particular are going to be re-balanced for the 183-184 level range in 2014. So no worries.

SumOldMan · 02-04-2008, 09:26 PM

Owain wrote:

Look, Swashies and Brigands have been easy-mode since the game itself launched, and when PvP came out evac and track made them even more godly. How can you argue with huge DPS, track, evac, great mitigation, great avoidance, great ripostes, raid utility and the game's best itemization? Anyone playing either of the Predator classes and who is not at least a General needs to see a doctor.Having said that, what are we going to do? All play Brigs and Swashies? (OK statistically I know most of you do). No - we hang in there in our class of choice and make the best of it. Personally I can't play them because I feel like I'm cheating all the time. Anyway, I have it on good authority that Scouts in general and Predators in particular are going to be re-balanced for the 183-184 level range in 2014. So no worries.

Owain has hit the nail on the head here -- It all goes back to trying to balance DPS and utility. Long prior to EQ2 pvp (LU 13), the Predator and Rogue classes got hugs DPS upgrades because their utility was lacking. The rallying cry at that time was -- if a scout and a mage were both looking for a group, why would you ever take a scout?

In pvp, its just the opposite, T1 dps + T1 utility (for pvp) -- why would you ever take a mage. Tell you what, monitor your lfg channels -- I will bet you that all the time you hear "Group looking for a scout for PVP", but almost never hear "Group looking for a mage for PVP". This needs to be fixed on the PVP servers, scouts (non-bards only) do way too much damage for the utility they possess. We need to go back to the Tiers and reestablish where each of the classes should be. It you want t1 dps as a ranger, give up some of your advantages.

My personal feeling is that mages should be t1/t2 (depending on class), scouts t2/t3, fighters t3/t4, and healers t4 in the DPS scale of things. Theres a reason why predators and rogues are the most numerous classes -- theyre god mode. Like owain, who has been around since PVP started (go pande!), I play PVP for the challenge and will not roll with ane non-bard scout class. My current incarnation is a 61 troubador -- and its a nice challenge. Next up, most likely a coercer or inquisitor. Thats right, im a glutton for punishment.

Shadow_Viper · 02-05-2008, 05:58 PM

KaiZas wrote:

I'm trying to come to terms with pvp as it stands today, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Here's why:There's a lot of classes that can just disable you completely during the entire 3 second fight. You get a stun and then they kill you in 3 strokes. I know there's supposed to be stuff to counter that, but there simply isn't time when you get jumped by them. So many deaths even trying to register there was a fight in the first place, no fun at all.For some reason, all opposing faction players turn out to be brigands. All of them. Most of them corspe-hump after the fight. Pixel-toons. Toons that are exactly 3 pixels big. What's with all the size-altering items stacking? This has to be an oversight, right?Please please please try and balance the pvp experience. As it stands, there's realy no fun to be had when there are god-like classes walking around griefing the crap out of players. If it were skill, I could perhaps live with it, but it's just dev-given invincibility.

Instead of coming to the forums and calling for nerfs everytime a class gives someone a problem, people should be visiting their class boards and asking for advice on dealing with a certain class that is giving them difficulty.

This seems to be just another "I got defeated by a brigand, so nerf them" thread

Just because X class was able to defeat you(general you) does not mean they're overpowered, unbalanced or unfair.

Shadow_Viper · 02-05-2008, 06:03 PM

-Arctura- wrote:

KaiZas wrote:
I'm trying to come to terms with pvp as it stands today, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Some classes fare better in solo confrontations. If a player finds solo combat exceedingly difficult, they have the option of adapting through ingenuity or seeking advice, or staying in duos, trios or groups.There's a lot of classes that can just disable you ..... ....all opposing faction players turn out to be brigands. All of them. A strong sense of hostility towards brigands shows through in this thread. Perhaps the title should be modified to reflect the actual intention of this post and its message. (something related to brigs?)You get a stun and then they kill you in 3 strokes.Nowadays claims of 3-stroke kills are an exaggeration to be sure, unless fraps/logs/screenshots can be provided. Even with high damage combat arts, it takes a minimum of 4-8 combat arts for most encounters. I know there's supposed to be stuff to counter that, but there simply isn't time when you get jumped by them.There are copious amounts of resources on the broker that can help you prevent getting jumped in pvp combat. If you can avoid being jumped or stop them before they close in, you may have a chance.Consider your quick death a fitting punishment for being unobservant and/or unable to flee in a timely manner from a class who is based around, and relies upon head-on close-combat melee damage.example: A mack truck hits you really hard in the face, because you allowed it to run you over. Dont blame the truck for being overpowered, thats what happens when you try to block it with your face " width="15" height="15" /> Perhaps try to shoot out its tires, jump out of the way, or blow it up with a rocket launcher before it runs you over ! (metaphorically speaking)....Most of them corspe-hump after the fight. Perhaps you should switch to Venekor where (most) people are nicer " />Pixel-toons. Toons that are exactly 3 pixels big. Extreme exaggeration. 3 pixels is a LITTLE bigger than ---> . <--- (2 pixels) If there is an issue with targeting people of such size, perhaps that can be amended, but no need to exaggerate like such.What's with all the size-altering items stacking? This has to be an oversight, right?If small-sized targeting is a problem (as some people claim), perhaps that can be fixed.Please please please try and balance the pvp experience. The development staff dedicated to PvP mechanics are always in the process of doing so, rest assured. But exaggerations do not bring instant results to a problem. Perhaps a dedicated thread related to a specific issue such as size-modifying items can be made up, with screenshots, fraps videos, log files, item descriptions, combat art descriptions, whatever. Solid proof to shed light on the issue that until such a time will always remain in the realm of 'heresay and conjecture'.As it stands, there's realy no fun to be had when there are god-like classes walking around..... The fun lies in learning how to stop/kill/flee these classes before they close the gap and are at point-blank-range. If anyone allows them to achieve this range, they SHOULD die. If it were skill, I could perhaps live with it, but it's just dev-given invincibility.What quantifies skill in this game? The speed at which people can react and press buttons? Knowing what buttons to push in what order?NO class is by default 'godlike and invincible'. There are good and bad players of all classes and races. Some simply have had more practice, and know the ins and outs of the system....griefing the crap out of players.Griefing is an entirely different issue. Even if 'balance' is achieved, players will always have the option to cause grief to another player in PvP.Griefing is not a class-related issue. Anyone can grief.Again, perhaps players who are unhappy with griefing, corpse humping and such activities will be happier on one of the other two servers, where such things do exist, but in much smaller amounts.

Great post, very well said!

KaiZas · 02-06-2008, 04:13 PM

Gee, wonder what class you are.On another note: "Shrink effects will no longer work on PvP servers"Wooot!

02-03-2008, 11:14 PM	#2
-Arctura- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,589	KaiZas wrote: I'm trying to come to terms with pvp as it stands today, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Some classes fare better in solo confrontations. If a player finds solo combat exceedingly difficult, they have the option of adapting through ingenuity or seeking advice, or staying in duos, trios or groups.There's a lot of classes that can just disable you ..... ....all opposing faction players turn out to be brigands. All of them. A strong sense of hostility towards brigands shows through in this thread. Perhaps the title should be modified to reflect the actual intention of this post and its message. (something related to brigs?)You get a stun and then they kill you in 3 strokes.Nowadays claims of 3-stroke kills are an exaggeration to be sure, unless fraps/logs/screenshots can be provided. Even with high damage combat arts, it takes a minimum of 4-8 combat arts for most encounters. I know there's supposed to be stuff to counter that, but there simply isn't time when you get jumped by them.There are copious amounts of resources on the broker that can help you prevent getting jumped in pvp combat. If you can avoid being jumped or stop them before they close in, you may have a chance.Consider your quick death a fitting punishment for being unobservant and/or unable to flee in a timely manner from a class who is based around, and relies upon head-on close-combat melee damage.example: A mack truck hits you really hard in the face, because you allowed it to run you over. Dont blame the truck for being overpowered, thats what happens when you try to block it with your face Perhaps try to shoot out its tires, jump out of the way, or blow it up with a rocket launcher before it runs you over ! (metaphorically speaking)....Most of them corspe-hump after the fight. Perhaps you should switch to Venekor where (most) people are nicer " />Pixel-toons. Toons that are exactly 3 pixels big. Extreme exaggeration. 3 pixels is a LITTLE bigger than ---> . <--- (2 pixels) If there is an issue with targeting people of such size, perhaps that can be amended, but no need to exaggerate like such.What's with all the size-altering items stacking? This has to be an oversight, right?If small-sized targeting is a problem (as some people claim), perhaps that can be fixed.Please please please try and balance the pvp experience. The development staff dedicated to PvP mechanics are always in the process of doing so, rest assured. But exaggerations do not bring instant results to a problem. Perhaps a dedicated thread related to a specific issue such as size-modifying items can be made up, with screenshots, fraps videos, log files, item descriptions, combat art descriptions, whatever. Solid proof to shed light on the issue that until such a time will always remain in the realm of 'heresay and conjecture'.As it stands, there's realy no fun to be had when there are god-like classes walking around..... The fun lies in learning how to stop/kill/flee these classes before they close the gap and are at point-blank-range. If anyone allows them to achieve this range, they SHOULD die. If it were skill, I could perhaps live with it, but it's just dev-given invincibility.What quantifies skill in this game? The speed at which people can react and press buttons? Knowing what buttons to push in what order?NO class is by default 'godlike and invincible'. There are good and bad players of all classes and races. Some simply have had more practice, and know the ins and outs of the system....griefing the crap out of players.Griefing is an entirely different issue. Even if 'balance' is achieved, players will always have the option to cause grief to another player in PvP.Griefing is not a class-related issue. Anyone can grief.Again, perhaps players who are unhappy with griefing, corpse humping and such activities will be happier on one of the other two servers, where such things do exist, but in much smaller amounts.

02-03-2008, 11:58 PM	#3
sokil Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 280	KaiZas wrote: I'm trying to come to terms with pvp as it stands today, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Here's why:There's a lot of classes that can just disable you completely during the entire 3 second fight. You get a stun and then they kill you in 3 strokes. I know there's supposed to be stuff to counter that, but there simply isn't time when you get jumped by them. So many deaths even trying to register there was a fight in the first place, no fun at all.For some reason, all opposing faction players turn out to be brigands. All of them. Most of them corspe-hump after the fight. Pixel-toons. Toons that are exactly 3 pixels big. What's with all the size-altering items stacking? This has to be an oversight, right?Please please please try and balance the pvp experience. As it stands, there's realy no fun to be had when there are god-like classes walking around griefing the crap out of players. If it were skill, I could perhaps live with it, but it's just dev-given invincibility. I would like to see pvp last longer than 5 sec (and I am a swashi) so when I want a 10 min fight I take my troub out and find a shaman or such and fight him for 2 hrs until he gives up and dies from bordom. If someone is humping you.. speak to their guild leader and if that does not work then ignore it or reviv quickly. Anyone that does it does not require respect but its not as if humping you takes anything away from you. There are multiple in game items to prevent stiffle, miz, stun etc I agree.. 1 inch toons is annoying and they know it is hard to target them and that is why they do it!! Yes, it is a problem with multiple shrink items stacking. I bet all new scouts are the smallest possible toon just for that reason. /petition it. So far I think soney has done well to try to balance pvp.. just wish they would not forget about diversity, skill and talent.

02-04-2008, 05:40 AM	#4
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	Ok after hours of brainstorming here is a proposed solution to corpse humping: The immunity to corpse humping potion, call it "potion of free death" if you like (for similarity with free mind/free action). Tadaaa Basically it's a ward, that lasts, say 30 sec, and remains active after death (might need some coding effort here). While it is in effect nobody can sit on your corpse, the ennemy can try but nothing happens. So when you see your ennemy coming (or when something 1 pixel high starts beating hard on you), just quickly pop your potion ! The guy will still kill you in 3 sec but in the end you owned him because he can't corpse hump See the logic there ? omg I can't wait for that to be put in game !

02-04-2008, 08:17 AM	#6
-Arctura- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,589	Arielle Nightshade wrote: How can you see if a 3 pixel high toon is humping you or not? (( ROFL I guffawed at that " />(honey i shrunk the griefers? o.O

02-04-2008, 08:38 AM	#7
Rattfa Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Friends And Family General Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,083	I think t8 has widened the gap between melee dps classes and casters...similar to how it was in t7 prior to the pvp 'balance'.Back in t7 I can remember having quite a lot of good 1v1s with Assassins and Brigands that would end up being quite close. I won my fair share. Now in t8 an Assassin can kill me before his stifle wears off. I don't think that is quite right.I have also been 2 shotted by a ranger, but I won't go there __________________ Squeeeek, 80 Brigand - Nagafen Rattface, 80 Fury - Nagafen

02-03-2008, 10:47 PM	#1
KaiZas Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 36	I'm trying to come to terms with pvp as it stands today, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Here's why:There's a lot of classes that can just disable you completely during the entire 3 second fight. You get a stun and then they kill you in 3 strokes. I know there's supposed to be stuff to counter that, but there simply isn't time when you get jumped by them. So many deaths even trying to register there was a fight in the first place, no fun at all.For some reason, all opposing faction players turn out to be brigands. All of them. Most of them corspe-hump after the fight. Pixel-toons. Toons that are exactly 3 pixels big. What's with all the size-altering items stacking? This has to be an oversight, right?Please please please try and balance the pvp experience. As it stands, there's realy no fun to be had when there are god-like classes walking around griefing the crap out of players. If it were skill, I could perhaps live with it, but it's just dev-given invincibility.

02-04-2008, 06:19 AM	#5
Arielle Nightshade Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,727	How can you see if a 3 pixel high toon is humping you or not?

02-04-2008, 12:37 PM	#8
ulleulle Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 336	I think the cat is out of the bag now Actura,,Dont hang on to old replies and ideas that t8 is balanced and some classes just need to buy pots/totems/etc to compeed..The fact is that t8 pvp is only a place to be if you A.play the right classb.play in the right guildsc.buy plat d.have a really really good idea off what eq2 pvp is really about and how it is played (That will most likely have come from playing one of the topdog classes in the first place)There are so many things wrong in t8 atm, that if sony dosent start hammering updates out and changes to pvp then this game will be nothing but a memory soon.And a memory of ganking ganking and more ganking.What went wrong sony!!!!! before rok came out the game was really starting to be playable for the people that dont play the few topclasses ..It was actually fun to pvp pre rok !!!But i guess you also need people in t8 so they will buy rok expansion..Money money money Cheers all

02-04-2008, 01:22 PM	#9
bladechef Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 99	I tend to disagree with Skree on general purpose most of the time... and playing a predator his replies are typical scout jibberjabber. I have seen a few recently that brought me close to the darkside thinking, " Hey! That guy just said something reasonable and if it weren't Skree I would agree 100% " This isn't one of those posts, Arc There is no balance in T8. Some classes can't compete. Other classes need no skill and little effort to dominate a solid player of the former. This isn't a 'get advice' or L2P issue. Very good players are having the same troubles and it is undeniable how powerful some classes are while others remain a shade over helpless in terms of PvP against them

02-04-2008, 02:21 PM	#10
KaiZas Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 36	Well... Thank god for your replies. After I posted this and got the reply by -Arctura-, I really started to feel like it was all me, like I did something wrong. Thing is, I was actually doing fine pvp-wise from tiers 1 through 7, then all of a sudden the expantion hits and boom, I'm on the bottom, scraping by killing greens and blues just to hang on to my hunter title. I've changed my AA's several times to gain more imunities from stuns and the like, but as I have to activate them, they turn out to be quite useless in those 5 second fights.

02-04-2008, 04:29 PM	#11
Owa General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 944	Look, Swashies and Brigands have been easy-mode since the game itself launched, and when PvP came out evac and track made them even more godly. How can you argue with huge DPS, track, evac, great mitigation, great avoidance, great ripostes, raid utility and the game's best itemization? Anyone playing either of the Predator classes and who is not at least a General needs to see a doctor.Having said that, what are we going to do? All play Brigs and Swashies? (OK statistically I know most of you do). No - we hang in there in our class of choice and make the best of it. Personally I can't play them because I feel like I'm cheating all the time. Anyway, I have it on good authority that Scouts in general and Predators in particular are going to be re-balanced for the 183-184 level range in 2014. So no worries. __________________

02-04-2008, 09:26 PM	#12
SumOldMan Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 48	Owain wrote: Look, Swashies and Brigands have been easy-mode since the game itself launched, and when PvP came out evac and track made them even more godly. How can you argue with huge DPS, track, evac, great mitigation, great avoidance, great ripostes, raid utility and the game's best itemization? Anyone playing either of the Predator classes and who is not at least a General needs to see a doctor.Having said that, what are we going to do? All play Brigs and Swashies? (OK statistically I know most of you do). No - we hang in there in our class of choice and make the best of it. Personally I can't play them because I feel like I'm cheating all the time. Anyway, I have it on good authority that Scouts in general and Predators in particular are going to be re-balanced for the 183-184 level range in 2014. So no worries. Owain has hit the nail on the head here -- It all goes back to trying to balance DPS and utility. Long prior to EQ2 pvp (LU 13), the Predator and Rogue classes got hugs DPS upgrades because their utility was lacking. The rallying cry at that time was -- if a scout and a mage were both looking for a group, why would you ever take a scout? In pvp, its just the opposite, T1 dps + T1 utility (for pvp) -- why would you ever take a mage. Tell you what, monitor your lfg channels -- I will bet you that all the time you hear "Group looking for a scout for PVP", but almost never hear "Group looking for a mage for PVP". This needs to be fixed on the PVP servers, scouts (non-bards only) do way too much damage for the utility they possess. We need to go back to the Tiers and reestablish where each of the classes should be. It you want t1 dps as a ranger, give up some of your advantages. My personal feeling is that mages should be t1/t2 (depending on class), scouts t2/t3, fighters t3/t4, and healers t4 in the DPS scale of things. Theres a reason why predators and rogues are the most numerous classes -- theyre god mode. Like owain, who has been around since PVP started (go pande!), I play PVP for the challenge and will not roll with ane non-bard scout class. My current incarnation is a 61 troubador -- and its a nice challenge. Next up, most likely a coercer or inquisitor. Thats right, im a glutton for punishment.

02-05-2008, 05:58 PM	#13
Shadow_Viper Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 438	KaiZas wrote: I'm trying to come to terms with pvp as it stands today, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Here's why:There's a lot of classes that can just disable you completely during the entire 3 second fight. You get a stun and then they kill you in 3 strokes. I know there's supposed to be stuff to counter that, but there simply isn't time when you get jumped by them. So many deaths even trying to register there was a fight in the first place, no fun at all.For some reason, all opposing faction players turn out to be brigands. All of them. Most of them corspe-hump after the fight. Pixel-toons. Toons that are exactly 3 pixels big. What's with all the size-altering items stacking? This has to be an oversight, right?Please please please try and balance the pvp experience. As it stands, there's realy no fun to be had when there are god-like classes walking around griefing the crap out of players. If it were skill, I could perhaps live with it, but it's just dev-given invincibility. Instead of coming to the forums and calling for nerfs everytime a class gives someone a problem, people should be visiting their class boards and asking for advice on dealing with a certain class that is giving them difficulty. This seems to be just another "I got defeated by a brigand, so nerf them" thread Just because X class was able to defeat you(general you) does not mean they're overpowered, unbalanced or unfair.

02-05-2008, 06:03 PM	#14
Shadow_Viper Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 438	-Arctura- wrote: KaiZas wrote: I'm trying to come to terms with pvp as it stands today, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Some classes fare better in solo confrontations. If a player finds solo combat exceedingly difficult, they have the option of adapting through ingenuity or seeking advice, or staying in duos, trios or groups.There's a lot of classes that can just disable you ..... ....all opposing faction players turn out to be brigands. All of them. A strong sense of hostility towards brigands shows through in this thread. Perhaps the title should be modified to reflect the actual intention of this post and its message. (something related to brigs?)You get a stun and then they kill you in 3 strokes.Nowadays claims of 3-stroke kills are an exaggeration to be sure, unless fraps/logs/screenshots can be provided. Even with high damage combat arts, it takes a minimum of 4-8 combat arts for most encounters. I know there's supposed to be stuff to counter that, but there simply isn't time when you get jumped by them.There are copious amounts of resources on the broker that can help you prevent getting jumped in pvp combat. If you can avoid being jumped or stop them before they close in, you may have a chance.Consider your quick death a fitting punishment for being unobservant and/or unable to flee in a timely manner from a class who is based around, and relies upon head-on close-combat melee damage.example: A mack truck hits you really hard in the face, because you allowed it to run you over. Dont blame the truck for being overpowered, thats what happens when you try to block it with your face " width="15" height="15" /> Perhaps try to shoot out its tires, jump out of the way, or blow it up with a rocket launcher before it runs you over ! (metaphorically speaking)....Most of them corspe-hump after the fight. Perhaps you should switch to Venekor where (most) people are nicer " />Pixel-toons. Toons that are exactly 3 pixels big. Extreme exaggeration. 3 pixels is a LITTLE bigger than ---> . <--- (2 pixels) If there is an issue with targeting people of such size, perhaps that can be amended, but no need to exaggerate like such.What's with all the size-altering items stacking? This has to be an oversight, right?If small-sized targeting is a problem (as some people claim), perhaps that can be fixed.Please please please try and balance the pvp experience. The development staff dedicated to PvP mechanics are always in the process of doing so, rest assured. But exaggerations do not bring instant results to a problem. Perhaps a dedicated thread related to a specific issue such as size-modifying items can be made up, with screenshots, fraps videos, log files, item descriptions, combat art descriptions, whatever. Solid proof to shed light on the issue that until such a time will always remain in the realm of 'heresay and conjecture'.As it stands, there's realy no fun to be had when there are god-like classes walking around..... The fun lies in learning how to stop/kill/flee these classes before they close the gap and are at point-blank-range. If anyone allows them to achieve this range, they SHOULD die. If it were skill, I could perhaps live with it, but it's just dev-given invincibility.What quantifies skill in this game? The speed at which people can react and press buttons? Knowing what buttons to push in what order?NO class is by default 'godlike and invincible'. There are good and bad players of all classes and races. Some simply have had more practice, and know the ins and outs of the system....griefing the crap out of players.Griefing is an entirely different issue. Even if 'balance' is achieved, players will always have the option to cause grief to another player in PvP.Griefing is not a class-related issue. Anyone can grief.Again, perhaps players who are unhappy with griefing, corpse humping and such activities will be happier on one of the other two servers, where such things do exist, but in much smaller amounts. Great post, very well said!

02-06-2008, 04:13 PM	#15
KaiZas Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 36	Gee, wonder what class you are.On another note: "Shrink effects will no longer work on PvP servers"Wooot!