Any reason to choose a Warlock

[Phaseo]

Seems that no one is happy with the state of the warlock. Is there anyone who thinks the warlock is fine. Also is there any reason to play a warlock over a wizard or Conjuror other than style or roleplaying reasons? I wanted to roll a warlock but i'm not a glutton for punishment and don't want to committ to a class that has nothing to offer that another class can not do better. Usually low class counts on a server signify that a class has problems but there are several low population classes on my server that kick alot of [Removed for Content] such a a brigand. So I wonder if the warlock is truly broken or just misunderstood.

[Wildmage]

I enjoy my warlock and I dont give two figs what anyone else says he does what I want him to do and I have fun and thats all that matters in the end.

[Korpo]

There are a lot of bad players out there playing warlocks. People also tend to blame their own lack of skill on something lacking in the class. These people never learn how to push their class to the limit because it's easier to just argue that the class is gimpy.

[Ruut Li]

Hi op,

Im a skilled warlock who cannot play in a PERFECT (high end) environment and hence cannot enjoy the class at when its at its best. I do decently against other classes (other skilled players) but its hard work and tiresome to watch the unfair distribution of hate vs dps. Warlock is Not a one man army, warlock is VERY dependant of many other classes, so dont dismiss all complaints as fantasies made up by "noobs". Not everyone is fortunate to play in the high end. As for soloing: there are way more efficient classes for that.

You are asking about wiz and conji and seems you are seeking comparisons to other dps classes and I must say that over the years Ive played the class seems to have taken severe beatings in comparison to others.

edit: also look at the activity and atmosphere in the class boards, like for example swash and warden boards. Very active? United community? Friendly and fun?  

[Korpo]

You just assume you're skilled. If you're not playing at the high end, you don't really have any way to judge that. Our warlock, wizard, swash, and assassins were always neck and neck in the zonewide parses, and nobody stacked PERFECT groups for them. The casters would have a troub and I might throw them a hate decreaser if I had free concentration slots.

[Ruut Li]

I must disagree wrinkle, Im very skilled at balancing between maxing my Personal dps and taking aggro. Does that make me proud? (like you) No. I feel its totally unnecessary to have a class that takes so much effort while there are classes who can perform just about the same with less effort. Sorry you sound a bit...noobish and unskilled claiming that only high enders can know if they know their class. So flame wars on again wrink? I bet your raid had way better set up than most casual locks are experiencing.

Do you really think that a high-end-if-you-complain-you-suck player is the best person to advice a newbie? But its good that the op sees the attitude in this board. A coercer (is it? and am I right in assuming former lock? was it too tough for you? why are you trolling and flame-baiting here? bitter? so many questions!) coming in and basically calling any complainers unskilled and saying that all who dont play high end cannot know if they know their class. Very nice flame bait lol.

[DjVacant]

Ruut Li wrote:

You are asking about wiz and conji and seems you are seeking comparisons to other dps classes and I must say that over the years Ive played the class seems to have taken severe beatings in comparison to others.

I dunno...I feel that warlocks are one of the only DPS classes that didn't recieve a direct nerf with the last few updates.  In fact, we've only gained more options with great group utility (increased propogations and vacuous) and the option to control our hate if we'd like (the new INT tree). 

As for wizards...our guild's wizard seems to have gotten smacked pretty hard (since GU36).  Not sure about what he got out of this last update, but he's not putting up his usual numbers.  As for conjis...I don't have summoner envy.  Let them have inflated numbers from a self-named pet...that's the bone they get for having to pass out hearts/shards all dang raid long.

[Ruut Li]

yes finally we didnt take the big stick up where it hurts. Im talking about generally over a 3 year period. EoF was very kind to warlocks though

[Araxes]

Warlocks at launch were far worse off than you could possibly imagine. It wasn't until LU7 that we become ridiculously over powered as we were until LU13.  Everyone and their mother rolled a warlock.  Then LU13 came and all those FOTM peeps cried murder and immediately deleted their locks. Now we are at the most balanced state we've been at since the game was launched. My advice to you, as it is to every new warlock, is to play the class until level 30 or so (not a huge committment since you can go from 1-20 in a few days, now) and get a feel for it.  Don't go off what you read here.  This is a small, vocal percentage of the warlock community.  Just like all of the forums, and the Internet in general.

[Rahatmattata]

Warlocks pwn. There is a heavy aggro price to pay when you make an entire group of mobs die in the time it would have taken to kill a single mob in the group.

[Korpo]

Ruut Li wrote:

I must disagree wrinkle, Im very skilled at balancing between maxing my Personal dps and taking aggro. Does that make me proud? (like you) No. I feel its totally unnecessary to have a class that takes so much effort while there are classes who can perform just about the same with less effort. Sorry you sound a bit...noobish and unskilled claiming that only high enders can know if they know their class. So flame wars on again wrink? I bet your raid had way better set up than most casual locks are experiencing.

Do you really think that a high-end-if-you-complain-you-suck player is the best person to advice a newbie? But its good that the op sees the attitude in this board. A coercer (is it? and am I right in assuming former lock? was it too tough for you? why are you trolling and flame-baiting here? bitter? so many questions!) coming in and basically calling any complainers unskilled and saying that all who dont play high end cannot know if they know their class. Very nice flame bait lol.

You can disagree all you want, but you still lack a real way to judge your skill. I can disagree with everyone I run into by claiming to be the best golfer in the world, but until I actually get out there and try playing golf, my claim is as baseless as yours. In fact, while I'm at it, I may as well claim I'm the King of the Moon. Of course only the high end people can know if they really know their class. A warlock bragging that he pwns everyone on the parses is great, until you realize that he's in a raid with a bunch of other noobs, killing King Drayek, and putting out a fantastic 850 DPS. That 850 may be awesome compared to the noobs that warlock is running with, but it's also what a really lazy priest does at the high end. Our raid setup were no different than anyone else's. We all play EQ2 and all have access to the same classes. Raids have a pretty standard setup: tank, healers, support, DPS. That our players knew what they were doing and put in the effort required to learn their class is the only difference. The OP was asking if warlocks are as bad as he has heard. He hears this from noob, vocal warlocks that don't know what they're doing. My advice to him remains true, there are a lot of bad warlocks out there blaming their problems on a problem with the class, as opposed to their lack of skill. If you take the attitude that the class is broken, then you'll never bother trying to get better, you'll just blame your problems on unskilled tanks, or less than ideal raid setups, or whatever. You are wrong in assuming a former 'lock. I just don't bother making a signature with half a dozen pictures in it. I'm sure you don't realize this yet, but when you get to 70, with 100 aa, with a full set of fabled, with a full set or two of backup fabled, with a full set of masters, there's not a whole lot else to do. That's why people make alts.

[Ruut Li]

Korpo wrote:

You are wrong in assuming a former 'lock. I just don't bother making a signature with half a dozen pictures in it. I'm sure you don't realize this yet, but when you get to 70, with 100 aa, with a full set of fabled, with a full set or two of backup fabled, with a full set of masters, there's not a whole lot else to do. That's why people make alts.

I have alts, but I also have a life so I only raid with one. Sawwy that Im not a "proud" eq2 nerd like you lol. Im glad you have something to be umm proud of though... .

I think the most skilled warlocks are the ones in between begginers raid and high end, they are the ones who have to struggle most if they want to be any good.

[Supernova17]

DjVacant wrote:

  As for conjis...I don't have summoner envy.  Let them have inflated numbers from a self-named pet...that's the bone they get for having to pass out hearts/shards all dang raid long.

Inflated numbers? Haha, that's very rich. Pet that does damage, which we summon, which we control, which we have to tell to attack and keep it protected, which we buff permanently and temporarily...No sir, not inflated numbers, it is OUR NUMBERS. EQ2 and ACT used to automatically add our pets DPS to our own, but something broke when SOE changed the way logs were recorded and now we have to name them after ourselves to get a combined number (aka a workaround for a bug). Passing out shards all dang raid long? I do a mass pass out while forming up or just before zoning in, takes about 6 minutes to do an entire raid by myself, but then you have to count the fact I already have my own, the Necro, Defiler, Ranger don't really need them and some folks may never actually use them because they actually manage their power intelligently rather than trying to use us for a quick fix. Sorry for the interruption, just don't like letting misconceptions born of ignorance or bad experience with bad players / slights against my class go un-responded too. Carry on.

[DjVacant]

Supernova17 wrote:

DjVacant wrote:

  As for conjis...I don't have summoner envy.  Let them have inflated numbers from a self-named pet...that's the bone they get for having to pass out hearts/shards all dang raid long.

Inflated numbers? Haha, that's very rich. Pet that does damage, which we summon, which we control, which we have to tell to attack and keep it protected, which we buff permanently and temporarily...No sir, not inflated numbers, it is OUR NUMBERS. EQ2 and ACT used to automatically add our pets DPS to our own, but something broke when SOE changed the way logs were recorded and now we have to name them after ourselves to get a combined number (aka a workaround for a bug). Passing out shards all dang raid long? I do a mass pass out while forming up or just before zoning in, takes about 6 minutes to do an entire raid by myself, but then you have to count the fact I already have my own, the Necro, Defiler, Ranger don't really need them and some folks may never actually use them because they actually manage their power intelligently rather than trying to use us for a quick fix. Sorry for the interruption, just don't like letting misconceptions born of ignorance or bad experience with bad players / slights against my class go un-responded too. Carry on.

So much hatred from such a small offhand comment...it wasn't responded to because who the heck cares?  It's not like I slammed conjies.  Sounds like your entire post belongs in whatever thread got you that worked up. 

I'm not going to give this any more thought though...I've never been beaten by a conj in the parse anyway...

[DjVacant]

Korpo wrote:

You can disagree all you want, but you still lack a real way to judge your skill. I can disagree with everyone I run into by claiming to be the best golfer in the world, but until I actually get out there and try playing golf, my claim is as baseless as yours. In fact, while I'm at it, I may as well claim I'm the King of the Moon.

You know...it's hard to disagree with your reasoning (and it's overall funny as well) but c'mon...if you think back to when you weren't at the top, you probably didn't look at yourself the way you're asking Ruut Li to.

You're right on pretty much every point you make, but people can only compare themselves to what they have around them. 

To the original poster...warlocks do have a lot to offer...the reason you see more wizzies is because unless your raid, you don't see the true power of a warlock.  Wizards are better single target soloers and can own in a heroic instance, but warlocks shine when the mobs have enough life for them to really get rolling.

[Korpo]

Ruut Li wrote:

I think the most skilled warlocks are the ones in between begginers raid and high end, they are the ones who have to struggle most if they want to be any good.

You can think whatever you want, but that doesn't mean it has any basis in reality.

[Ruut Li]

Korpo wrote:

Ruut Li wrote:

I think the most skilled warlocks are the ones in between begginers raid and high end, they are the ones who have to struggle most if they want to be any good.

You can think whatever you want, but that doesn't mean it has any basis in reality.

thank you for giving me permission to think what I want oh 1337 eq2 nerd

Pssssst: eq2 is a game, reality is that other stuff buzzing around you while you are wasting time trying to impress others with your game chars  

[miliskel]

i like ruut li's idea..coz im not in high end and always come top 5 in raid parse - normally 3/2 so im a skilled warlock

[Deathspell]

I'm not sure if parsing top 3 or top 5 is necessarily a reference. It doesn't mean much really, unless you actually know how much skilled your teammates are. You can parse high or low, but who's saying that the other players/classes are skilled as much as (or as less as) you? Not to mention other people's buffs, there's a vast difference in your dps between being buffed or not buffed by your group/raid.

[Niun01]

Korpo wrote:

Ruut Li wrote:

I must disagree wrinkle, Im very skilled at balancing between maxing my Personal dps and taking aggro. Does that make me proud? (like you) No. I feel its totally unnecessary to have a class that takes so much effort while there are classes who can perform just about the same with less effort. Sorry you sound a bit...noobish and unskilled claiming that only high enders can know if they know their class. So flame wars on again wrink? I bet your raid had way better set up than most casual locks are experiencing.

Do you really think that a high-end-if-you-complain-you-suck player is the best person to advice a newbie? But its good that the op sees the attitude in this board. A coercer (is it? and am I right in assuming former lock? was it too tough for you? why are you trolling and flame-baiting here? bitter? so many questions!) coming in and basically calling any complainers unskilled and saying that all who dont play high end cannot know if they know their class. Very nice flame bait lol.

You can disagree all you want, but you still lack a real way to judge your skill. I can disagree with everyone I run into by claiming to be the best golfer in the world, but until I actually get out there and try playing golf, my claim is as baseless as yours. In fact, while I'm at it, I may as well claim I'm the King of the Moon. Of course only the high end people can know if they really know their class. A warlock bragging that he pwns everyone on the parses is great, until you realize that he's in a raid with a bunch of other noobs, killing King Drayek, and putting out a fantastic 850 DPS. That 850 may be awesome compared to the noobs that warlock is running with, but it's also what a really lazy priest does at the high end. Our raid setup were no different than anyone else's. We all play EQ2 and all have access to the same classes. Raids have a pretty standard setup: tank, healers, support, DPS. That our players knew what they were doing and put in the effort required to learn their class is the only difference. The OP was asking if warlocks are as bad as he has heard. He hears this from noob, vocal warlocks that don't know what they're doing. My advice to him remains true, there are a lot of bad warlocks out there blaming their problems on a problem with the class, as opposed to their lack of skill. If you take the attitude that the class is broken, then you'll never bother trying to get better, you'll just blame your problems on unskilled tanks, or less than ideal raid setups, or whatever. You are wrong in assuming a former 'lock. I just don't bother making a signature with half a dozen pictures in it. I'm sure you don't realize this yet, but when you get to 70, with 100 aa, with a full set of fabled, with a full set or two of backup fabled, with a full set of masters, there's not a whole lot else to do. That's why people make alts.

QFT

[Niun01]

Ruut Li wrote:

Korpo wrote:

Ruut Li wrote:

I think the most skilled warlocks are the ones in between begginers raid and high end, they are the ones who have to struggle most if they want to be any good.

You can think whatever you want, but that doesn't mean it has any basis in reality.

thank you for giving me permission to think what I want oh 1337 eq2 nerd

Pssssst: eq2 is a game, reality is that other stuff buzzing around you while you are wasting time trying to impress others with your game chars  

I'm not sure where this 1337 nerd crap is coming from.  You don't have to play your class 8hrs a day or live in mommies basement to be the best at what you do.  It's called dedication and a drive to do the best you can with whatever your doing, be it Aerospace Dynamics or playing a game. Last time I checked being a slacker was a bad thing.  We all have our own Idea of what fun is. 1337 speak or saying "this is just a game" doesn't change the facts. Warlocks are hard to play at end game.  Most give up, betray, or reroll.  The ones that don't eventually learn what the hell they are doing and get with the program. and for the comment about other classes preforming with less effort.. WGAF?  If I wanted an easy button I would of rolled one of those classes.  It's the challange of this class I enjoy. If they changed it, then I would be [Removed for Content]. Just say NO to the easy button.

[Jeger_Wulf]

I have fun with my warlock. He's only 66 now and hasn't raided so I don't claim to be an expert. I live for those times when things go right and I get spam like:

Foster has killed monster X Foster has killed monster X Foster has killed monster X Foster has killed monster X Foster has killed monster X

It takes a lot of experience to know when to open up, and when to let the tank build aggro. Ideally, all 5 mobs will turn and take a step toward you just as they die.

The ultra-cheap masters are a nice side benefit.

[miliskel]

reason to choose warlock: we own reason not to: takes a lot more skill than other classes to own.

[Niun01]

Jeger_Wulf wrote:

I have fun with my warlock. He's only 66 now and hasn't raided so I don't claim to be an expert. I live for those times when things go right and I get spam like:

Foster has killed monster X Foster has killed monster X Foster has killed monster X Foster has killed monster X Foster has killed monster X

It takes a lot of experience to know when to open up, and when to let the tank build aggro. Ideally, all 5 mobs will turn and take a step toward you just as they die.

The ultra-cheap masters are a nice side benefit.

Yup, those are definitely the good times

[Ruut Li]

Isio@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I'm not sure where this 1337 nerd crap is coming from.  You don't have to play your class 8hrs a day or live in mommies basement to be the best at what you do.  It's called dedication and a drive to do the best you can with whatever your doing, be it Aerospace Dynamics or playing a game. Last time I checked being a slacker was a bad thing.  We all have our own Idea of what fun is. 1337 speak or saying "this is just a game" doesn't change the facts. Warlocks are hard to play at end game.  Most give up, betray, or reroll.  The ones that don't eventually learn what the hell they are doing and get with the program. and for the comment about other classes preforming with less effort.. WGAF?  If I wanted an easy button I would of rolled one of those classes.  It's the challange of this class I enjoy. If they changed it, then I would be [Removed for Content]. Just say NO to the easy button.

oh my, guess I touched a sensitive spot, and it wasnt wrinkles spot lol. Fine, look at wrinks attiude coming and saying that those who complain are noobs and nobody but high-enders know their class = thats asking for some spanking. Besides he has said he has mutliple fully fabled/ mastered toons that he masters very well, pls..that means a lot of time spent online, and since he comes here asking for spanking ill use that info and tease him. He seems to be ok with it. But it sure bothers you . Point is: im not going to hush up because I am not an eq2 nerd, yes thats my words for a "dedicated and driven" eq2 warlock who is so scared that the one thing s/he is good at will be taken away from them. Hence the agressive attacks on anyone who feedbacks issues concerning the class.

Last time I checked being a slacker/casual was perfectly fine actually lol. As long as it doesnt affect other players negatively, like a raid. I dont know what you mean actually. Am I a slacker because I only raid with one toon?

Concerning raids: when your raid is ready to hit the hard stuff the role of the warlock cant be that difficult anymore. At that point the raid is so mature, you have all your players skilled to the max, got the classes required and all that jazz. So whats the big deal? Its the upcoming raiders that impress because they have to do good among slackers and lackers. Im one of them, I manage to do a good job in a casual environment, and I think its a tad too much work /gasp!. And that seems to just send teh nerds, oh sorry the dedicated and driven, on a rage rampage

I will accept people wanting their lock to be unnecessarily difficult as long as they arent trying to make others shut up with crap like: oh you dont know what your doing, noob, slacker, same old geeky attacks. Then your just asking for it, so suck it up.

[Niun01]

I'm not quiet sure what your saying here. Obviously its you with the sensitive spot. Your not bothering me in the least, I was more curious why anyone that has dedication to their class is a 1337 dood who doesn't get out much. I could care less what bantering you have going on with Winkles.  I play/raid casually compared to most.. I'm fabled and mastered, all on a casual schedule, but honestly, who cares. I suppose it's how you use your time while your playing.  And i will agree to disagree about the slacker part.  Striving to be the best in everything I do has always been priority. and slacker has nothing to do with casual play. I will accept people wanting their lock to be unnecessarily difficult as long as they arent trying to make others shut up with crap like: oh you dont know what your doing, noob, slacker, same old geeky attacks. This I agree with, everyone has concerns and come here to voice them. Just be ready for the replies as you have already stated. So far your the only one in this thread using "noob, slacker, same old geeky attacks".

[Ruut Li]

and I get the impression your the one who is bothered. We are both fabled and mastered, and raid on a failry casual level it seems, and trying to do our best. Im teasing wrinkles and you take offense, at least thats the impression I get /shrug. Im not sure what you are saying either.

Heres what wrink started with: "There are a lot of bad players out there playing warlocks. People also tend to blame their own lack of skill on something lacking in the class. These people never learn how to push their class to the limit because it's easier to just argue that the class is gimpy". And theres more of that later on.

Sure, if you have to nitpick it doesnt say noob, slacker and all the fav namecallings... Really silly to try and deny the elitist attitude here, just because the usual terms arent used.

If you actually read the thread from start you can see that in my first response im not even talking to wrink, Im giving op my point of view, but wrink could not accept that.

[Korpo]

Ruut Li wrote:

Korpo wrote:

Ruut Li wrote:

I think the most skilled warlocks are the ones in between begginers raid and high end, they are the ones who have to struggle most if they want to be any good.

You can think whatever you want, but that doesn't mean it has any basis in reality.

thank you for giving me permission to think what I want oh 1337 eq2 nerd

Pssssst: eq2 is a game, reality is that other stuff buzzing around you while you are wasting time trying to impress others with your game chars  

The game has been out nearly three years, and the cap has been 70 for about half that. If you have trouble leveling more than one character to 70 in that amount of time, no matter how much time you play, you seriously need to re-evaluate how you play. It's not the amount of time in-game that matters, it's how you spend it. For example: when I was actually raiding hardcore, I'd play for about 2-3 hours a night. That's far time less than most people that play this game spend, and far less than it normally takes a pickup raid to clear Labs. The difference is that in those 3 hours, we'd clear Labs, HoS, and any contesteds that were up.

[Ruut Li]

How many times do I need to say this lol: I have alts, alts that are lvl 70. I dont have time to fully master and equip them with eof fabled. I thought you meant you had full eof fabled set-gear on several characters, because that to me would be high end super serious raiding, and by your definition the only place to know if your skilled. Now I have no clue what you mean by high end.

Now lets stop behaving as if its rocket science to figure out how to crank out as much dps as possible as a lock. That "enigma" is as easy to solve as leveling several chars to lvl 70. The tricky part is to handle the dps/hate ie adapting to situations, which simply is hardest in a less than optimal raids. Being in a highly skilled environment makes the locks job easier.

Its sad that my opinion annoyed you so much, I didnt even direct my first reply to you. Fact is there are several levels of skill: the soloing lock knows if he is skilled at that, the casual raiding lock knows if he is doing his job well considering the circumstances, and so on. Skill to adapt takes place in all levels of play. The game has been out nearly 3 years, if you dont know this basic stuff then you seriously need to re-evaluate how you play

And dont confuse my criticism of the class as lack of skill to adapt, thats an ignorant assumption.

[Korpo]

Ruut Li wrote:

oh my, guess I touched a sensitive spot, and it wasnt wrinkles spot lol. Fine, look at wrinks attiude coming and saying that those who complain are noobs and nobody but high-enders know their class = thats asking for some spanking. Besides he has said he has mutliple fully fabled/ mastered toons that he masters very well, pls..that means a lot of time spent online, and since he comes here asking for spanking ill use that info and tease him. He seems to be ok with it. But it sure bothers you . Point is: im not going to hush up because I am not an eq2 nerd, yes thats my words for a "dedicated and driven" eq2 warlock who is so scared that the one thing s/he is good at will be taken away from them. Hence the agressive attacks on anyone who feedbacks issues concerning the class.

Last time I checked being a slacker/casual was perfectly fine actually lol. As long as it doesnt affect other players negatively, like a raid. I dont know what you mean actually. Am I a slacker because I only raid with one toon?

Concerning raids: when your raid is ready to hit the hard stuff the role of the warlock cant be that difficult anymore. At that point the raid is so mature, you have all your players skilled to the max, got the classes required and all that jazz. So whats the big deal? Its the upcoming raiders that impress because they have to do good among slackers and lackers. Im one of them, I manage to do a good job in a casual environment, and I think its a tad too much work /gasp!. And that seems to just send teh nerds, oh sorry the dedicated and driven, on a rage rampage

I will accept people wanting their lock to be unnecessarily difficult as long as they arent trying to make others shut up with crap like: oh you dont know what your doing, noob, slacker, same old geeky attacks. Then your just asking for it, so suck it up.

Apparently you have problems reading, or maybe English isn't your first language, or maybe you forgot your glasses at work. No matter the reason, you should go back and (try to) read what I wrote again, because you are very confused. Nowhere did I claim that people that complain are noobs and  nowhere did I claim that only people at the high end know their class. That you took the statements in that way is more an indication of your insecurity than anything else. Let's try another analogy, and hope that this one sinks in: Instead of EQ2, let's talk about baseball. There are 9 players on the team, and they all have to know what they're doing and work on it so the team wins. Everyone on the team has specific jobs, and those players have to practice their specific jobs both individually and as a team. Let me know if you have trouble understanding how this relates to EQ2. Your argument is that it must be easy to play first base for the Yankees because after all, everyone else on the team knows what they're doing, and have been playing for a long time, and the Yankees have access to a catcher, a pitcher, a left fielder, etc. Wrong. Sure it's easier if the shortstop doesn't throw the ball 6' above your head, but you still have to learn how to catch it, and you still have to learn to bat, and you still have to learn to throw. Catching the ball and running down players and hitting a ball doesn't become any easier if everyone else is skilled, it becomes harder because the ball is coming at you faster, the players are faster, and the pitches are faster. Your other argument is that a guy playing shortstop on his company softball team knows how good he is in relation to all other shortstops. Wrong. He may be good on his company team, he may even be the best in the league; heck, he might even  be able to play in the pros for all we know. But, until he is trying to hit 90mph fastballs and catch line drives off the bat of guys with arms as big as trees, he doesn't know how good he is. He judges his skills against his peers, which doesn't help him know how good he is overall.