Why a Templar?

[BoughtOnEb]

I think your feeling the same way I did when I came in from EQ1.  The cleric/templar in EQ1 really had little competition in their area of expertise.  Some really well geared druids that could heal with us but still our complete heal as well as other healing spells set us apart.  In EQ2 it seems the classes of healers are more alike in what they can do as healers, the end result that is as far as healing is concerned.  You no longer have to have a cleric/templar in the group to have a great group.

Overall my feelings are that the templar just isn't that much fun to play.  We heal and we also can heal and then did I mention our healing?  Our DPS is the bottom of the barrel in the game as it should be if we were really such great healers no one can live without us, but that's not the case.  Our other spells are ok and in some cases very nice abilities but still others out do us with the abilities they have.  As far as groups I can play the whole night with one spell and no one is the wiser.

In short I agree with you, I see us as nothing special, sorry.  If you want something firm get on and do a /who all templar and then compare it to /who all fury.  Apparently your not the only one that feels templars have little that one would say is special.

I'm glad some of the others here have found some fun with the class and I don't mean to be so down but I played my templar to 70 and these are just my opinions.  I'm very disappointed and have taken the suggestion mentioned above and moved on to other classes that offer more variety as well as abilities.  The Templar is what it is and I don't see SOE making the changes that would catch my interest again in it.

[Kendricke]

BoughtOnEbay wrote:

Our DPS is the bottom of the barrel in the game as it should be if we were really such great healers no one can live without us, but that's not the case.  Our other spells are ok and in some cases very nice abilities but still others out do us with the abilities they have.  As far as groups I can play the whole night with one spell and no one is the wiser.

Couldn't disagree more.  Start up a Mystic or even a Troubadour if you want to know what truly abyssmal DPS feels like. 

With my Guk Templar (moderately raid geared, mostly mastered, level 70 with 83 achievements mostly raid specced), I'm kicking out 5-600 DPS in groups and soloing with DPS spiking to 900 or more.  On raids, I'm still hitting number 2 on the heal parse while kicking out 3-400 DPS.  My Test Templar (horribly geared, Adept I's, level 70 with 35 achievements specced for damage) is still putting out around 500-700 DPS on Test, and has little issue soloing heroics (obviously the downtime is a tad lower, but again, he's intentionally geared about as badly as I can get him).   

A few of those "Newbies" from the experiment I attempted for a few months are still around.  One's in his 50's now.  He's fully damage specced, has no problem solo healing groups, and spent last night soloing heroics and named in Living Tombs to sell on the broker.  At level 56, he's got 47 points built around solo DPS and he's putting out 400+ DPS already.  I know level 70's complaining they can't put out 400 DPS. 

It's not just the class or gear here.  Skill and knowledge matter:  what allows a moderately quest/crafter geared level 56 to outdamage lightly raid geared level 70's can only really be explained in that way.  The class has a great deal of power for those willing and able to explore it a bit. 

[da5idblacksun]

Kendricke wrote:

BoughtOnEbay wrote:

Our DPS is the bottom of the barrel in the game as it should be if we were really such great healers no one can live without us, but that's not the case.  Our other spells are ok and in some cases very nice abilities but still others out do us with the abilities they have.  As far as groups I can play the whole night with one spell and no one is the wiser.

Couldn't disagree more.  Start up a Mystic or even a Troubadour if you want to know what truly abyssmal DPS feels like. 

With my Guk Templar (moderately raid geared, mostly mastered, level 70 with 83 achievements mostly raid specced), I'm kicking out 5-600 DPS in groups and soloing with DPS spiking to 900 or more.  On raids, I'm still hitting number 2 on the heal parse while kicking out 3-400 DPS.  My Test Templar (horribly geared, Adept I's, level 70 with 35 achievements specced for damage) is still putting out around 500-700 DPS on Test, and has little issue soloing heroics (obviously the downtime is a tad lower, but again, he's intentionally geared about as badly as I can get him).   

A few of those "Newbies" from the experiment I attempted for a few months are still around.  One's in his 50's now.  He's fully damage specced, has no problem solo healing groups, and spent last night soloing heroics and named in Living Tombs to sell on the broker.  At level 56, he's got 47 points built around solo DPS and he's putting out 400+ DPS already.  I know level 70's complaining they can't put out 400 DPS. 

It's not just the class or gear here.  Skill and knowledge matter:  what allows a moderately quest/crafter geared level 56 to outdamage lightly raid geared level 70's can only really be explained in that way.  The class has a great deal of power for those willing and able to explore it a bit. 

So you need to be level 70 with many AA's and good gear before the class is fun?  Because without all that you don't do jack DPS and still you don't have any utility even with all that.  No safefall, no evac, no ports, no run buff, no invis, no FD, etc. In my mind the extra utility spells and built in DPS (decent without an uber build) would just be more fun.  From here, a Fury just looks like its a lot more fun.  Had I known two years ago what I know today, my main would be a Fury.  Healing ability is the same but you get so much more.  Even just the ports is a huge thing. Yes I could re-roll, but my main has done over 20 HQs, has a house full of no-trade goodies, has titles, status and I'm known by this name in the game. Man I wish I could get a one time subclass and race respec as a vetern reward since so much has changed. In addition to picking a Templar, I chose to be a Dwarf.  I also have the worst visual combination in the game.  The armor art for a Dwarf is the worst and specifically the plate armor (chain looks okay) is just terrible.  The Hoolah hat and Vaults hat for Templar suck as well in appearance.  I should be looking good now and easily recognizable as a high level character but I don't. I know it looks like I'm complaining and I guess I am but I just feel kind of robbed with how much time I've put into this character. /end rant

[Kendricke]

da5idblacksun wrote:

Kendricke wrote:

BoughtOnEbay wrote:

Our DPS is the bottom of the barrel in the game as it should be if we were really such great healers no one can live without us, but that's not the case.  Our other spells are ok and in some cases very nice abilities but still others out do us with the abilities they have.  As far as groups I can play the whole night with one spell and no one is the wiser.

Couldn't disagree more.  Start up a Mystic or even a Troubadour if you want to know what truly abyssmal DPS feels like. 

With my Guk Templar (moderately raid geared, mostly mastered, level 70 with 83 achievements mostly raid specced), I'm kicking out 5-600 DPS in groups and soloing with DPS spiking to 900 or more.  On raids, I'm still hitting number 2 on the heal parse while kicking out 3-400 DPS.  My Test Templar (horribly geared, Adept I's, level 70 with 35 achievements specced for damage) is still putting out around 500-700 DPS on Test, and has little issue soloing heroics (obviously the downtime is a tad lower, but again, he's intentionally geared about as badly as I can get him).   

A few of those "Newbies" from the experiment I attempted for a few months are still around.  One's in his 50's now.  He's fully damage specced, has no problem solo healing groups, and spent last night soloing heroics and named in Living Tombs to sell on the broker.  At level 56, he's got 47 points built around solo DPS and he's putting out 400+ DPS already.  I know level 70's complaining they can't put out 400 DPS. 

It's not just the class or gear here.  Skill and knowledge matter:  what allows a moderately quest/crafter geared level 56 to outdamage lightly raid geared level 70's can only really be explained in that way.  The class has a great deal of power for those willing and able to explore it a bit. 

So you need to be level 70 with many AA's and good gear before the class is fun?  Because without all that you don't do jack DPS and still you don't have any utility even with all that.  No safefall, no evac, no ports, no run buff, no invis, no FD, etc. In my mind the extra utility spells and built in DPS (decent without an uber build) would just be more fun.  From here, a Fury just looks like its a lot more fun.  Had I known two years ago what I know today, my main would be a Fury.  Healing ability is the same but you get so much more.  Even just the ports is a huge thing. Yes I could re-roll, but my main has done over 20 HQs, has a house full of no-trade goodies, has titles, status and I'm known by this name in the game. Man I wish I could get a one time subclass and race respec as a vetern reward since so much has changed. In addition to picking a Templar, I chose to be a Dwarf.  I also have the worst visual combination in the game.  The armor art for a Dwarf is the worst and specifically the plate armor (chain looks okay) is just terrible.  The Hoolah hat and Vaults hat for Templar suck as well in appearance.  I should be looking good now and easily recognizable as a high level character but I don't. I know it looks like I'm complaining and I guess I am but I just feel kind of robbed with how much time I've put into this character. /end rant

Where did I say that?  You don't have to be 70.  I guess you missed the level 56 in there, too, right?  Mosey on over to the "The Great Templar Newbie Experiment" while you're at it.  You certainly do not need to be 70 with "many achievements" to have fun with the class. 

There's a level 56 I mentioned who is putting out 400+ DPS.  I got ahold of him after he came back to the game as a level 42 with 0 achievements.  I got him turned around on what to do and in what order, and now he's soloing named and heroics. 

[da5idblacksun]

Kendricke wrote:

da5idblacksun wrote:

Kendricke wrote:

BoughtOnEbay wrote:

Our DPS is the bottom of the barrel in the game as it should be if we were really such great healers no one can live without us, but that's not the case.  Our other spells are ok and in some cases very nice abilities but still others out do us with the abilities they have.  As far as groups I can play the whole night with one spell and no one is the wiser.

Couldn't disagree more.  Start up a Mystic or even a Troubadour if you want to know what truly abyssmal DPS feels like. 

With my Guk Templar (moderately raid geared, mostly mastered, level 70 with 83 achievements mostly raid specced), I'm kicking out 5-600 DPS in groups and soloing with DPS spiking to 900 or more.  On raids, I'm still hitting number 2 on the heal parse while kicking out 3-400 DPS.  My Test Templar (horribly geared, Adept I's, level 70 with 35 achievements specced for damage) is still putting out around 500-700 DPS on Test, and has little issue soloing heroics (obviously the downtime is a tad lower, but again, he's intentionally geared about as badly as I can get him).   

A few of those "Newbies" from the experiment I attempted for a few months are still around.  One's in his 50's now.  He's fully damage specced, has no problem solo healing groups, and spent last night soloing heroics and named in Living Tombs to sell on the broker.  At level 56, he's got 47 points built around solo DPS and he's putting out 400+ DPS already.  I know level 70's complaining they can't put out 400 DPS. 

It's not just the class or gear here.  Skill and knowledge matter:  what allows a moderately quest/crafter geared level 56 to outdamage lightly raid geared level 70's can only really be explained in that way.  The class has a great deal of power for those willing and able to explore it a bit. 

So you need to be level 70 with many AA's and good gear before the class is fun?  Because without all that you don't do jack DPS and still you don't have any utility even with all that.  No safefall, no evac, no ports, no run buff, no invis, no FD, etc. In my mind the extra utility spells and built in DPS (decent without an uber build) would just be more fun.  From here, a Fury just looks like its a lot more fun.  Had I known two years ago what I know today, my main would be a Fury.  Healing ability is the same but you get so much more.  Even just the ports is a huge thing. Yes I could re-roll, but my main has done over 20 HQs, has a house full of no-trade goodies, has titles, status and I'm known by this name in the game. Man I wish I could get a one time subclass and race respec as a vetern reward since so much has changed. In addition to picking a Templar, I chose to be a Dwarf.  I also have the worst visual combination in the game.  The armor art for a Dwarf is the worst and specifically the plate armor (chain looks okay) is just terrible.  The Hoolah hat and Vaults hat for Templar suck as well in appearance.  I should be looking good now and easily recognizable as a high level character but I don't. I know it looks like I'm complaining and I guess I am but I just feel kind of robbed with how much time I've put into this character. /end rant

Where did I say that?  You don't have to be 70.  I guess you missed the level 56 in there, too, right?  Mosey on over to the "The Great Templar Newbie Experiment" while you're at it.  You certainly do not need to be 70 with "many achievements" to have fun with the class. 

There's a level 56 I mentioned who is putting out 400+ DPS.  I got ahold of him after he came back to the game as a level 42 with 0 achievements.  I got him turned around on what to do and in what order, and now he's soloing named and heroics. 

It's not just about DPS, it's about all the other lack of utility.   Also, are you sacrificing healing ability in order to moderate DPS?  If you want to be a DPS class, why work so hard and still get mediocre DPS?  We should primarily be a healing class, but my dissapointment is that natively we don't really do anything else.  Look my main is a Templar and will always be and I've learned to live with it.  My point is that it feels like Templars are not balanced well with the other healer classes. I appreciate your work on the DPS stuff and your enthusiasm for the class.

[Kendricke]

da5idblacksun wrote: It's not just about DPS, it's about all the other lack of utility.   Also, are you sacrificing healing ability in order to moderate DPS?  If you want to be a DPS class, why work so hard and still get mediocre DPS?  We should primarily be a healing class, but my dissapointment is that natively we don't really do anything else.  Look my main is a Templar and will always be and I've learned to live with it.  My point is that it feels like Templars are not balanced well with the other healer classes. I appreciate your work on the DPS stuff and your enthusiasm for the class.

You still haven't looked over at the Experiment, have you?    I don't sacrifice healing for DPS.  I don't advocate sacrificing healing for DPS.  Templars already have so much healing prowess over and above what's needed without any achievements needed.  Templars at your level are putting out 200-300+ DPS in groups while assisting with locking down adds outright stopping incoming damage and keeping their groups alive all at the same time.  Unless you're raiding (and you certainly haven't indicated that you are), then your healing should be sufficient without the heal criticals we get from achievements.

Our utility is based heavily around additional healing and control spells.  We stun, we daze, and we can reduce aggression ranges on potential adds - thus keeping them from being adds in the first place. 

For example, the other night we're in Nizara.  It's myself and a Fury keeping the group standing.  We're fighting a named, and the Fury goes down to a back knockback/AE which brings in adds.  Ok, now I'm the only healer...but we've got an illusionist locking down the adds, at least.  The problem is we have a pather wandering toward us.  I fire off Divine Recovery, drop a Soothe on the pather, Prostrate the named, and Arbitrate the group before dropping a group heal, and then cast Resurrection on the Fury before things get out of hand again.

If you want to play a Fury, play a Fury - it's a great class.  However, don't believe that Templars are weaker by comparison just because it's not "clicking" for you personally, or because they get invisibility when we get more heal spells.  Different players have different playstyles which tend to suit different classes better. 

We're very, very good at what we do.  Furies are good at what they do.  We intersect in many ways, but overall, I'm happier with my Templar.

[da5idblacksun]

I've specced my AAs similar to this: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=178173 I've also read the thread you mentioned a few times. With my build if I focus totally on just doing damage, sometimes I can get up to 200dps.  At the high level, 200 is not worth doing - they should use my spot in the group for something else. I choose the above build to maximize my healing. The only DPS move I've made is 100% crit melee and I'm using a Blackscale Maul.  Helps a bit. DPS is really last on my list of why I feel we are deficient.  I think we are great healers and I love my class for that.  Just wish we had a couple of the utility spells.  Everyone seems to agree that all the healer classes can heal equally enough.  Given that, we seem deficient in areas outside of healing. Question: with your build, do you still get a large amount of interrupts if you're soloing more than 2 mobs?

[Kendricke]

da5idblacksun wrote: I've specced my AAs similar to this: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=178173

Which explains a lot.  Before you even mentioned your numbers, I had an idea on what you'd say.  Unless you're raiding, the above spec isn't likely to help you out a great deal.  If you spend any serious amount of time raiding in a primary Templar position, the above build out is just fine.  If you're not in raiding in a primary Templar position, you're spending a lot of resources on abilities that are likely overkill to the solo/grouping playstyle.

Without a single Achievement point, Templars are already powerful healers while soloing or grouping.  Adding to that healing for situations where that much healing isn't necessary is just adding to the overage.  You've already mentioned in this discussion how you're frustrated by your lack of damage and how you feel healing isn't a challenge.  So why would you set your build toward increasing healing even more?

Frankly, I can't imagine a Templar (even one with the above build out) putting out only 200 DPS at level 62.  I'd be very curious to know what your general tactics are during a fight, and would like a glance at the gear you're using as well.  If you'd like to send a PM with a link to your EQ2 Players, I'll do my best to offer up some advice that will likely enhance your nightly enjoyment regarding your Templar. 

da5idblacksun wrote: Everyone seems to agree that all the healer classes can heal equally enough.

I don't.  Different healers have different strengths and weaknesses in different situations.  Every healer is able to cover a minimal standard equally well, but past that minimal standard, the numbers most definately skew situationally.

da5idblacksun wrote: Question:  with your build do you still get a large amount of interrupts if you're soloing more than 2 mobs?

Not generally...and I'm soloing heroic groups (level 68 groups of 2-3 in Loping Plains with Guk.Kendricke and level 60-61 groups in Kaladim with my Test Templar).  Of course, I sometimes switch up tactics slightly if I'm fighting something challenging (our control spells come in mighty handy about then). 

[da5idblacksun]

Thanks kendrick.  I sent you a PM. I have to say that even with the spec I have there are times where being the only healer in a group is still difficult.  Certain named MOBs in instances. I do a lot of PUGs so the situations aren't always optimal but in the end I want to be the best healer I can be.

[DarrkElf]

Radar-X wrote:

But I think I'm getting my answer which is we are differentiated in the specifics of our healing style and not really in any other way.  I'm a bit dissapointed that Templars don't have a more balanced utility.  When I look at Druids I honestly get a bit jealous and have regrets that I chose the wrong class. I know from playing alts that have invis and run buffs how valuable those tools are. 

If you are looking for fluff with a little sacrificed healing?  Druid is the way to go.  I don't need SoW because I have a horse.  I'll admit ports are useful.  What else do they have?  Group invis?  It's called a Totem.  They are tempting, but I'm not going to cut my mitigation by 2/3 for that stuff.  I'm not giving up sanctuary, and something as powerful as focused intercession for fluff.  Just my opinion. 

A lot depends on what you plan to do in game.  I play as a Fury (level 70) and find that while I started out with the intention of only grouping and solo, now that I'm in the end game I spend a lot of time raiding.

Soloing I think Furies are amazing, especially if you follow the damage dealing AA lines.  The utilities we get are SOW, Group Invis and Opening Portals.

SOW is useless after level 50, as once you get a carpet or a horse they're much faster to use than SOW.

Group Invis you don't get until level 45.  At 30 you can use invis totems already.  Solo casting group invis saves you gold because you don't need totems.  In a group using your group invis is extremely risky, because quite simply, about 90% of the time that you cast it some doofus in the group breaks it by casting, engaging in combat, lagging too far behind or one of any other million excuses.  You cast group invis, carefully walk over to the other end of the zone, and as you're walking past some heroic mobs some [Removed for Content] is guaranteed to break the invis, so you will get pummelled.

Opening Portals rocks.  It's a great time saver and handy to move yourself and other players around the place.  I love this druid ability, as it's useful from level 25 all the way through the game, and is still of use in the end game.

That said, in order to get better offense and utilities Fury's give up a lot of healing.  A Fury that's specced for high DPS will have good INT, but will sacrafice WIS to do it.  The AA lines that give stronger nuking ability mean missing out on the healing AA lines.  Fury's wear leather, and therefore get fairly low mitigation when compared with Templars.  If the Fury has high Int and can nuke and keep the fight short then they are great, if the fight drags on then that low mitigation sucks.  If you stay solo, or even grouped this is no big deal.. but if you raid.... oh man...

If you're building a raid healer, my advice is do not go for a Fury.  There are heaps of Furies in the game, and only limited spots available in Raids.  While raids are usually screaming for healers, Templars/Mystics are amazingly better at keeping themselves and the raid group alive.  The only advantage in a raid situation that Furies seem to have over other healer is the speed that they can cast.  That's it.  And provided you have healers that can cast reactives or wards, the Fury heals are just supporting them.  The AoE's that are used by the mobs in raids are a real problem for Furies.  Group cures have a fairly long reuse timer, and we don't get a group arcane cure.  That combined with our leather armor means we take alot of damage everytime an AoE gets used by the mob and have a real scramble to try to recover ourselves while also keeping our group and the tank up.

I love soloing with my Fury, but want to build up a Templar for raiding.

[Noirceur]

DarrkElf wrote: The AoE's that are used by the mobs in raids are a real problem for Furies.  Group cures have a fairly long reuse timer, and we don't get a group arcane cure.  That combined with our leather armor means we take alot of damage everytime an AoE gets used by the mob and have a real scramble to try to recover ourselves while also keeping our group and the tank up. It's funny you mention aoe's as a fury weakness as I think aoe's are one of the few points where having a druid is far more important than having a  cleric. The whole aoe thing is probably the reason why having a druid in the dps groups is so popular. First off no aoe should kill you as a fury unless you really have some funny positioning. Mitigation doesn't mean a lot anymore since the last combat changes. Maybe it's not your mitigation you should have a look at but rather your resists. You then wrote you have to heal yourself while also trying to keep the group up. I'm afraid you're doing something wrong then cause getting the group (and yourself) up after an aoe is something no other class can do as fast as a fury. You don't use solo heals, you have a very very fast group heal and a pretty fast group regen. Hit them both and your whole group is at full health in a matter of seconds. That's something a cleric can't do. The cleric would have to cast her direct heal (longer casting time than fury heal?) and then? Well, the group reactive won't really help much as the dmg is already done. So by the time the cleric can cast her group heal again the mob might have aoe'd a 2nd time and wiped the group. Now don't get me wrong: For the MT group having a cleric is so much more important cause clerics provide great buffs and are great at healing a single target. Clerics rock. But there's 2 things a druid can just do better: healing the dps group up and doing that odd quick heal on a mage or on the tank after a dmg spike. Furies have 2 fast large heals (don't forget Back into the Fray ancient teaching) so these 2 things are what furies are good at in general. I think the balancing is pretty well done tbh. Both classes are just fine. Hugs, Noir

[da5idblacksun]

I decided to roll a Fury and try it out and answer this question for myself.  Obviously I still need time to see how it is at higher levels but so far I'm enjoying it much more than my main Templar. I love my Templar and I've been doing high end raids and instances and he's a great healer ... but that is all he is. With the Fury I'm simply having more fun because he is much more versatile.  The utility spells make a huge difference. I'm duoing with a Monk and can provide much more to that situation than a Templar ever could. I understand that raiding is a totally different thing but I've never noticed a Fury having any difficulty getting into a group or raid.  In fact the current criteria seems to be a balance of plate vs non-plate. I'm often saying "thats not fair" when playing my Fury (referring to Templars being gimped).  It actually hurts more now that I've tried it.

[Bhee]

da5idblacksun wrote:

I decided to roll a Fury and try it out ... I'm often saying "thats not fair" when playing my Fury (referring to Templars being gimped).  It actually hurts more now that I've tried it.

Wow - never thought of rolling a Fury (although all my friends who play Fury swear by it). I am still trying to play my Templar better - trying some recommendations from these posts. I can kill 61^^^ heroics but I still have hard time killing 63^^^ heroics in New Tunaria (for that abominable grindfest of quest called An Old Memoir - well that is another gripe for another board lol). Whereas my friend's Fury can take them with no problems (Yes - I went with her to verify that myself). Maybe I am lacking uber gear/spells (I don't have all fabled or all master 1s) - just some fabled, some legendary and rest mastercrafted with Ad3 spells (few M1). Looks like no developer even plays Templar anymore, so nothing is happening in this area. Looks at the Templar's issues list - no updates for months. Does that mean we are the only perfectly balanced class? Maybe so, but I am not so sure. I hope that I am wrong about Templars being a boring class while soloing. Maybe you folks can help me do better in soloing. BTW, I have no issues in groups - I heal great and have no issues there. So, I take my poorly geared conjurer when I want to solo Maybe, some day, I need to try out a Fury for a change . Templars do it slowly ....

[sstair]

I would like to disagree with the comment that healing is about the same with other classes. I've got a 47 mystic and a 31 fury, and their healing doesn't hold a candle to my templar's.  Its not just the reactives (which do suck for avoidance tanks) and straight heals (which are a lot better than druid's).   Templars have a lot of other ways to heal, some of which are huge amounts of healing, such as the Mark, Fate and Glory lines. Once you add all those other spells in, Templars are the best healers in the game.

[RipFlex]

Maybe I'm old fashion, but Healers heal... So I picked the templar because it seemed an END GAME plated priest with lots of Healing/Cure and good assortment of last resorts; I care less if I did 0 DPS.  Now with that said my AA line to be a Raid healer as well, my DPS although I care less is still fine for solo mobs on LnL, book quests, Writs, I expect nothing else.  Being my Main character and anyone on Guk has grouped with RipEscence knows reguardless how badly the Sh...t hits the fan (We are all going to die!!!) - you won't ( ).  Why, besides being a good player, my AA lines and gear are all for Mega Healing ONLY.

Same thing with my Dirge, AA Line all for what Bards are despite what others pretend them to be... BUFF BOTS, when a class hass 10 or so buffs and only 5 concentration slots for them it's not rocket science what they are to be in the game, why fight it.  

My Guardian... +Hate +Mit anything to keep agro and take less damage... What a Guardian is for what I build it for... I see no other path.

I guess I am old fashion?

I just see how the toolset is laid out, what arch-type they are and where they fit and build accordingly as expected to be best at and be better at it?

No DPS build for my Templar for me thanks.

[Tommara]

Heh, this thread gave me flash backs to when I first started playing a cleric in the original EQ.

In the beginning, I struggled, trying to provide some value to the group over other healers who had useful utility skills, like SoW, invis, ports, that I lacked.  I was soooo convinced that a dedicated healer was important.

In the end, we ruled in the healing department.  It was complete domination, especially combined with our ability to eliminate the death penalty, which was harsh in the original EQ.

Looks like the EQII devs took some effort to avoid that here.  To the point that I doubt you'll ever achieve the kind of dominance we "enjoyed" in the original EQ.  "Enjoyed" in quotes, because clerics ultimately ended up in chain gangs (to ensure efficient timing of our complete heals).

I do think SoE has over-reacted to the problem in the original EQ of having a superior healing class.  I've played other games, like World of Warcraft and Anarchy Online, where there still is a class that is vastly superior in healing compared to other classes.  But yet they are still in high demand, because not enough people want to play them.

Go figure.

[RipFlex]

Tommara wrote:

Heh, this thread gave me flash backs to when I first started playing a cleric in the original EQ.

In the beginning, I struggled, trying to provide some value to the group over other healers who had useful utility skills, like SoW, invis, ports, that I lacked.  I was soooo convinced that a dedicated healer was important.

In the end, we ruled in the healing department.  It was complete domination, especially combined with our ability to eliminate the death penalty, which was harsh in the original EQ.

Looks like the EQII devs took some effort to avoid that here.  To the point that I doubt you'll ever achieve the kind of dominance we "enjoyed" in the original EQ.  "Enjoyed" in quotes, because clerics ultimately ended up in chain gangs (to ensure efficient timing of our complete heals).

I do think SoE has over-reacted to the problem in the original EQ of having a superior healing class.  I've played other games, like World of Warcraft and Anarchy Online, where there still is a class that is vastly superior in healing compared to other classes.  But yet they are still in high demand, because not enough people want to play them.

Go figure.

I couldn't say it better.  Everyone in my guild mostly Defiler this defiler that furies are awesome DPSers/and heals blah blah blah... but once a raid is formed they cry not enough Templars and scratching their heads on where are they, even to the point they get angry why very few to no templars they recruited signed up for raids.  Maybe give a little love than talking about how good the others are.... soon as you need are Cure all arcane, you are tearing up the floor for the Templars.  Suffer...   If I log on my Templar when guild in a Raid I get /tells to join... on a DKP system it's like i get no DKP for joining late.... they over look it.  If we are not that good and Defilers are god why the begging for us at the last minute?

People NEED us for a moment then toss us out when done...  I sometimes feel so used.