free guild promotions for EVERYONE! (borked guild stuff)

Shunidar · 05-12-2005, 06:45 AM

Um, in CoW all you have to do is log in and you get moved up to rank 2 or rank 3, basically getting promoted 3 or 4 times just for logging on your toons. WOOT! anyway, figured that would cause some concern in the grand scheme of things.

On a side note (not to be negative) I REALLY hate the new xp bar that is broken into 5ths instead of 10ths.

Message Edited by Shunidar on 05-11-2005 07:47 PM

Moorgard · 05-12-2005, 07:06 AM

Thanks for the notice on the guild bug.

The change to the XP bar was not intentional. I noticed that on our daily build and thought it was fixed, but I guess it slipped through. We'll fix it before this goes live.

EtoilePirate · 05-12-2005, 09:31 AM

Not just CoW, everyone apparently. Everyone in Fhir that logged on tonight got bumped either to officer or senior officer. I think I was hardly the only one to /bug it though. SMILEY

Evadne · 05-12-2005, 06:04 PM

My guild is power hungry..... *panic*

Torali · 05-12-2005, 10:37 PM

Well, thanks to this bug, Test Specimens has an officer again finally. All our leaders and officers last logged in over 90 to 110 days ago and left it just my husband and myself there. Never could get the leadership changed. So, something moderately good came of this bug. We still have no leader, but we have officers now. I promoted all my alts and hubby's toons. *grin*

Message Edited by Torali on 05-12-2005 11:38 AM

Shunidar · 05-26-2005, 08:07 PM

I am actually very surprised that a bug of this magnitude was allowed to go live. I'm all for trying to help out guys, but seriously... what's the point of reporting bugs and having a test server if they are just gonna go live anyway?

Shantee · 05-26-2005, 10:23 PM

With this bug going live, and it having such a big impact on them. With you saying it's a top priority, I'm surprised it wasn't fixed in Test when it was first brought up.

goboy · 05-26-2005, 11:13 PM

Blackgaurd wrote:

I just wanted to let you all know that this is our top priority right now. We apologize for not catching this on Test server. I'm not going to make excuses because, optimally, we would have caught and fixed it before going Live with this update. Unfortunately, we aren't perfect, and some things can slip through the cracks.

Blackgaurd, this comment in the LU9 post really upset me. This was caught on test - it was not fixed and retested before going to live.

imakee · 05-26-2005, 11:42 PM

Blackguard, way to throw us on to the tracks...

EtoilePirate · 05-27-2005, 03:35 AM

goboy wrote:

Blackgaurd wrote:

I just wanted to let you all know that this is our top priority right now. We apologize for not catching this on Test server. I'm not going to make excuses because, optimally, we would have caught and fixed it before going Live with this update. Unfortunately, we aren't perfect, and some things can slip through the cracks.

Blackgaurd, this comment in the LU9 post really upset me. This was caught on test - it was not fixed and retested before going to live.

Yeah. There was a long chat about this on the Test channel this afternoon. On the whole, a lot of us were disappointed. After seeming to listen to us, and after all the hard work Nate and Palladius do communicating to SOE for us, it was disappointing to be thrown to the wolves. With so many people already happy at the drop of a hat to abuse the Test server and Test players for being useless, it's really disappointing to be told, when we report something a dozen times, that we don't matter and no-one notices.

On the whole, the communication between the Test players and SOE has been getting better steadily for weeks, and we've been pleased. Don't make it worse again. SMILEY

Silverdrop · 05-27-2005, 01:09 PM

Hmmm, really would appreciate it if maybe Palladius can find out how it could be that this was pushed to live in the first place. Was it a deliberate decision, an oversight (forgot to check if it was fixed before the push), miscommunication internally (Someone thought it was fixed, but it wasn't). Also I wonder who initiated this "excuse" was it the poster himself? Or did it come from higher up? The situation is bad enough as is. Would be worse if nothing is learned from it.

bcbroom · 05-27-2005, 06:25 PM

Silverdrop wrote:

The situation is bad enough as is. Would be worse if nothing is learned from it.

This is an excellent point. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt and beleive that what happened was some type of miscomunication and not "we ran out of time fixing frog bugs, we'll just let this slide". Is there a way we as testers can give better feedback? There are tons of options available.../bug, /feedback, test channel, and forums here (and elsewhere).

I've heard /bug is the more prefferable option, but is totally a one way street. There is no way for us to get any feedback on our report. My guess is that many things are not submitted by /bug because people assume that they are known issues (and maybe they are, but if volume of reports is used to triage bugs, it may lead to the impression that an issue is more isolated than it really is).

QA / Dev people ... how can we help you the most?

NatesQA · 05-27-2005, 11:30 PM

I believe that this was indeed a simple miscommunication. When the bug first arrived on Test, it did not seem that critical to have resolved immediately on Test since players could not actually reach Leader status, so I did not make a giant fuss about it (my mistake). It was just a normal bug that I expected would get fixed before going Live (like everyone else on Test I'm sure). Unfortunately, our bug description did not entail "every time someone zones" and simply said "on login". The coder fixed an issue, but it did not fix everything. Since Palladius was out of the office and I wasn't paying attention to all the issues going on ( not really my job [bad excuse?] ), it was never re-tested before the update hit Live.

From what I hear, Palladius will begin making/replying to posts with bug statuses. If done well, this method should be able to better track things before they go out the door.

Personally, I like all 3 methods. If the /bug report is 100% reproducible by us (your detailed steps are much appreciated!), then it should definately be "known" by the end of the day. If you post here, then as soon as the right people see it, it will become "known" very quickly. If you inform Palladius or I directly, and we can reproduce it, then it will become "known" quite efficiently.

The main issues are that I am not around all the time (I'm not on Test Server at this moment), so telling me directly may be interfered with for this reason. /bug reports are not always reliable, since, as you pointed out, they are 1-way and there is not a real method in place for us to inform you that your /bug report has been successfully noted (ie. the bug you found was successfully reproduced). And posting here has some kind of delay factor, since most of us do not sit around and read the forums all day long (except Blackguard! jk). :smileytongue:

While posting this, I think I've decided that the *safest* method would be to post here, then send a mail or /tell to Palladius (or me, if Palladius isn't around) with the name of the thread, and of course /bug it (include a link to the thread if one has been made). While this opinion may be unpopular to many, in my eyes it is the safest thing to do with large issues that CANNOT get to Live.

I think this method is already very Close to being in-use, except at the moment it is more of an improv'd version and not yet a refined method of generating issues.

oh, and btw, i slapped blackguard already for apologizing that the issue was not "caught" on Test. As ambiguous as it sounds, it most obviously was Noticed and Reported on Test (more than 1 post here on the forum detailing the issue should most definately be considered "caught"). it just was not "captured" ... or something like that...?

Sorry for my long post. With any luck I've encouraged one or two testers to make more posts here on the forums to document issues (or tell Palladius or I to make a post about it). Now we just need to find the best spot here on the forum to accumulate and consolidate all the issues so we know exactly where to look and post. But I'll leave that job up to Palladius! :smileyhappy:

Thanks Test!

You guys rock!

-nate

Message Edited by NatesQA on 05-27-2005 12:33 PM

goboy · 05-28-2005, 02:46 AM

Thanks for the "love" Nate. We do appreciate what you bring to the test server.

What has always surprized me is the lack of updating on bug status.

An ideal situation would be to have an on-line database (accessible on test server) that listed the bugs being worked on and their status. That way, if we notice a lack of something - we can bug the [Removed for Content] out of you. Right now, I could not list a half dozen bugs that are being worked on - heck, I cannot even list one.

Silverdrop · 05-28-2005, 01:18 PM

Thanks Nate, Definately appreciate you giving that clarification here. It's also good to know what the "optimal" way of reporting bugs is, especially for these very important bugs. Well, back to bug-hunting SMILEY

05-12-2005, 06:45 AM	#1
Shunidar Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 170	Um, in CoW all you have to do is log in and you get moved up to rank 2 or rank 3, basically getting promoted 3 or 4 times just for logging on your toons. WOOT! anyway, figured that would cause some concern in the grand scheme of things. On a side note (not to be negative) I REALLY hate the new xp bar that is broken into 5ths instead of 10ths. Message Edited by Shunidar on 05-11-2005 07:47 PM __________________ ================================================== ================================================== ========== "Cyranel" lvl 50 Dark Elf Warlock, lvl 50 Alchemist (Test) "Silvermist" lvl 50 Woodworking Slave (Test) "Butterbean" the too-cute-to-really-be-furious Halfling Fury, lvl 34 (Test) GL of "Children of War"... aka CoW (/moo)

05-12-2005, 07:06 AM	#2
Moorgard Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 604	Thanks for the notice on the guild bug. The change to the XP bar was not intentional. I noticed that on our daily build and thought it was fixed, but I guess it slipped through. We'll fix it before this goes live. __________________ =========================== Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard Game Designer, EverQuest II

05-12-2005, 09:31 AM	#3
EtoilePirate Tester Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,258	Not just CoW, everyone apparently. Everyone in Fhir that logged on tonight got bumped either to officer or senior officer. I think I was hardly the only one to /bug it though. __________________ Kella The Mighty Pirate, Assassin & Tailor Nimari, Fury-at-Large Test Server

05-12-2005, 06:04 PM	#4
Evadne Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 367	My guild is power hungry..... panic __________________ ~Eva Xeven The Dancing Queen Test Server

05-26-2005, 08:07 PM	#6
Shunidar Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 170	I am actually very surprised that a bug of this magnitude was allowed to go live. I'm all for trying to help out guys, but seriously... what's the point of reporting bugs and having a test server if they are just gonna go live anyway? __________________ ================================================== ================================================== ========== "Cyranel" lvl 50 Dark Elf Warlock, lvl 50 Alchemist (Test) "Silvermist" lvl 50 Woodworking Slave (Test) "Butterbean" the too-cute-to-really-be-furious Halfling Fury, lvl 34 (Test) GL of "Children of War"... aka CoW (/moo)

05-12-2005, 10:37 PM	#5
Torali Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 77	Well, thanks to this bug, Test Specimens has an officer again finally. All our leaders and officers last logged in over 90 to 110 days ago and left it just my husband and myself there. Never could get the leadership changed. So, something moderately good came of this bug. We still have no leader, but we have officers now. I promoted all my alts and hubby's toons. grin Message Edited by Torali on 05-12-2005 11:38 AM

05-26-2005, 10:23 PM	#7
Shantee Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Test Server Posts: 138	With this bug going live, and it having such a big impact on them. With you saying it's a top priority, I'm surprised it wasn't fixed in Test when it was first brought up. __________________ Chii 60 Monk ~ Test Server Kaida 50 Defiler Semi Retired ~ Test Server

05-26-2005, 11:13 PM	#8
goboy Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 511	Blackgaurd wrote: I just wanted to let you all know that this is our top priority right now. We apologize for not catching this on Test server. I'm not going to make excuses because, optimally, we would have caught and fixed it before going Live with this update. Unfortunately, we aren't perfect, and some things can slip through the cracks. Blackgaurd, this comment in the LU9 post really upset me. This was caught on test - it was not fixed and retested before going to live. __________________ Jaly, Test Gnome

05-26-2005, 11:42 PM	#9
imakee Tester Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 78	Blackguard, way to throw us on to the tracks... __________________ ~Osen Surhito Fhir Rhuen Test Server

05-27-2005, 03:35 AM	#10
EtoilePirate Tester Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,258	goboy wrote: Blackgaurd wrote: I just wanted to let you all know that this is our top priority right now. We apologize for not catching this on Test server. I'm not going to make excuses because, optimally, we would have caught and fixed it before going Live with this update. Unfortunately, we aren't perfect, and some things can slip through the cracks. Blackgaurd, this comment in the LU9 post really upset me. This was caught on test - it was not fixed and retested before going to live. Yeah. There was a long chat about this on the Test channel this afternoon. On the whole, a lot of us were disappointed. After seeming to listen to us, and after all the hard work Nate and Palladius do communicating to SOE for us, it was disappointing to be thrown to the wolves. With so many people already happy at the drop of a hat to abuse the Test server and Test players for being useless, it's really disappointing to be told, when we report something a dozen times, that we don't matter and no-one notices. On the whole, the communication between the Test players and SOE has been getting better steadily for weeks, and we've been pleased. Don't make it worse again. __________________ Kella The Mighty Pirate, Assassin & Tailor Nimari, Fury-at-Large Test Server

05-27-2005, 01:09 PM	#11
Silverdrop Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	Hmmm, really would appreciate it if maybe Palladius can find out how it could be that this was pushed to live in the first place. Was it a deliberate decision, an oversight (forgot to check if it was fixed before the push), miscommunication internally (Someone thought it was fixed, but it wasn't). Also I wonder who initiated this "excuse" was it the poster himself? Or did it come from higher up? The situation is bad enough as is. Would be worse if nothing is learned from it. __________________ -- Aleyssha (lvl 54 Iksar Necromancer) (Test) Shevaghn (lvl 30 High Elf Templar) (Test)

05-27-2005, 06:25 PM	#12
bcbroom Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 226	Silverdrop wrote: The situation is bad enough as is. Would be worse if nothing is learned from it. This is an excellent point. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt and beleive that what happened was some type of miscomunication and not "we ran out of time fixing frog bugs, we'll just let this slide". Is there a way we as testers can give better feedback? There are tons of options available.../bug, /feedback, test channel, and forums here (and elsewhere). I've heard /bug is the more prefferable option, but is totally a one way street. There is no way for us to get any feedback on our report. My guess is that many things are not submitted by /bug because people assume that they are known issues (and maybe they are, but if volume of reports is used to triage bugs, it may lead to the impression that an issue is more isolated than it really is). QA / Dev people ... how can we help you the most? __________________ -------- Razrushadt -- 62 Wizard - Test Storazh -- 64 Armorer - Test

05-27-2005, 11:30 PM	#13
NatesQA Quality Assurance Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 7	I believe that this was indeed a simple miscommunication. When the bug first arrived on Test, it did not seem that critical to have resolved immediately on Test since players could not actually reach Leader status, so I did not make a giant fuss about it (my mistake). It was just a normal bug that I expected would get fixed before going Live (like everyone else on Test I'm sure). Unfortunately, our bug description did not entail "every time someone zones" and simply said "on login". The coder fixed an issue, but it did not fix everything. Since Palladius was out of the office and I wasn't paying attention to all the issues going on ( not really my job [bad excuse?] ), it was never re-tested before the update hit Live. From what I hear, Palladius will begin making/replying to posts with bug statuses. If done well, this method should be able to better track things before they go out the door. Personally, I like all 3 methods. If the /bug report is 100% reproducible by us (your detailed steps are much appreciated!), then it should definately be "known" by the end of the day. If you post here, then as soon as the right people see it, it will become "known" very quickly. If you inform Palladius or I directly, and we can reproduce it, then it will become "known" quite efficiently. The main issues are that I am not around all the time (I'm not on Test Server at this moment), so telling me directly may be interfered with for this reason. /bug reports are not always reliable, since, as you pointed out, they are 1-way and there is not a real method in place for us to inform you that your /bug report has been successfully noted (ie. the bug you found was successfully reproduced). And posting here has some kind of delay factor, since most of us do not sit around and read the forums all day long (except Blackguard! jk). :smileytongue: While posting this, I think I've decided that the safest method would be to post here, then send a mail or /tell to Palladius (or me, if Palladius isn't around) with the name of the thread, and of course /bug it (include a link to the thread if one has been made). While this opinion may be unpopular to many, in my eyes it is the safest thing to do with large issues that CANNOT get to Live. I think this method is already very Close to being in-use, except at the moment it is more of an improv'd version and not yet a refined method of generating issues. oh, and btw, i slapped blackguard already for apologizing that the issue was not "caught" on Test. As ambiguous as it sounds, it most obviously was Noticed and Reported on Test (more than 1 post here on the forum detailing the issue should most definately be considered "caught"). it just was not "captured" ... or something like that...? Sorry for my long post. With any luck I've encouraged one or two testers to make more posts here on the forums to document issues (or tell Palladius or I to make a post about it). Now we just need to find the best spot here on the forum to accumulate and consolidate all the issues so we know exactly where to look and post. But I'll leave that job up to Palladius! :smileyhappy: Thanks Test! You guys rock! -nate Message Edited by NatesQA on 05-27-2005 12:33 PM

05-28-2005, 02:46 AM	#14
goboy Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 511	Thanks for the "love" Nate. We do appreciate what you bring to the test server. What has always surprized me is the lack of updating on bug status. An ideal situation would be to have an on-line database (accessible on test server) that listed the bugs being worked on and their status. That way, if we notice a lack of something - we can bug the [Removed for Content] out of you. Right now, I could not list a half dozen bugs that are being worked on - heck, I cannot even list one. __________________ Jaly, Test Gnome

05-28-2005, 01:18 PM	#15
Silverdrop Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	Thanks Nate, Definately appreciate you giving that clarification here. It's also good to know what the "optimal" way of reporting bugs is, especially for these very important bugs. Well, back to bug-hunting __________________ -- Aleyssha (lvl 54 Iksar Necromancer) (Test) Shevaghn (lvl 30 High Elf Templar) (Test)