Anyone feel like we being phased out?

[Sslarrga]

Bruisers AND Monks overpowered?  I'm not sure what crack you are smoking, but it must be some good stuff. 

 

SELF Buffed.  I have 69% avoidance and 36% mitigation.

 

SELF Buffed.  The guardian in our guild is 60+% avoidance and 60+% mitigation (not sure of the exact number as I haven't asked him to self buff it recently, but he's gotten better gear since the last time I asked).  With the Buckler AA bug his avoidance is 85%.

 

Ummm, yeah.  That is most certainly overpowered.  He has almost the same avoidance (more when taking advantage of the bug) yet almost twice as much mitigation.

 

Oh wait, but we have more DPS.

 

Well, lets see I haven't parsed our numbers in groups or anything.  However.  In the last raid I parsed roughly 900 dps (going max dps route) on average.  The GUARDIAN parsed roughly 800 dps (Guardian went DPS route with Buckler line of AA's) on average.  Both of us occasionally spiked over 1k dps.  And both of us grabbed aggro off the MT when we did so (thus we both tried to avoid dishing out too much DPS).  Both of us loaded with DPS enhancing buffs and procs.

 

When both of us are in the same MT group.  And both of us are defensive (as I give avoidance to him as it's absolutely absurd to even consider a brawler for MT duties in T7) and DPS buffs are placed on the guardian so that he can hold aggro better.

 

Guardian DPS over the course of the raid average 600-700 (more +dps buffs).

MY DPS over the course of the raid averaged 300-400 (less +dps buffs).

 

Oh yeah, we're overpowered all right.

 

Not to mention the guardians superior AE taunting abilities (reactive and 2 AE) and superior emergency taunting abilities (rescue and the other one that bumps them up the aggro chain, reinforcement?).

 

Oh wait we get stuns and stifles.  Oh wait they are abosolutely useless on raid mobs and some heroic named.

 

Oh wait we get a heal...on a 3 minute timer.  Which won't allow you to raid tank jack snot.  And only helps marginally in places like HoF.

 

Oh wait we get Tsunami (which doesn't work against the hits we need it to work against Hammer Fist [4-7k on average damage] and Brutal strike [3-6k damage on average] in Halls of fate to name just 2 attacks out of many.  Not to mention raid mobs ignoring Tsunami) on a 3 minute timer.  Which again won't allow you to raid tank jack snot with the same comments in regards to places like HoF.

 

...oh and guardians can get slightly worse one if they wanted granted it's on a longer timer.

 

So when choosing AAs for similar tasks.

 

If choosing AAs with DPS in mind, Guardians have SLIGHTLY less DPS with the same DPS buffs.

 

If choosing Tanking AAs, Guardians have roughly double the tanking ability compared to a Monk.

 

Yeah, we're overpowered all right.  And I'll take some of that crack you are smoking also. 

 

Regards,

Croaker

Message Edited by Sslarrga on 03-20-200602:08 AM

Message Edited by Sslarrga on 03-20-200602:13 AM

Message Edited by Sslarrga on 03-20-200602:14 AM

Message Edited by Sslarrga on 03-20-200602:16 AM

[Gladesman]

Mehehehe.. don't you just love the AA lines? :smileywink:

 

Seriously, don't get so worked up about it.. if the avoidance 'bug' gets fixed and guards can only get up to 90% or so of your avoidance you can all can sing your regular "we rock" tune again. Not that I ever stopped singing it, but oh well.

 

You must not forget your group FD and your group heal, by the way. Us bruisers don't have it and guards sure don't have it either and those skills make you uber uber uber :smileyvery-happy:

 

Oh, and I don't smoke crack, I snort coke. Duh.

 

 

Ps. I have yet to see a guardian out-DPS a monk (OR a bruiser) in any fight.. except for when the monk had his AFK tag on and was going around the block to avoid stealing aggro from the guard :smileywink: Maybe picking the right AA's can bring them closer, but I haven't seen any players with full points yet and from what I can tell now when parsing with a monk [same lvl] / guardian [2 lvls higher] / SK [same lvl];  most of the time my bruiser comes out on top, closely followed by the monk (or the other way around) and then the SK or the guard depending on the situation - amount of mobs (harm touch / savage blows / tsunami). Needless to say; I am not overly worried.

[Gaige]

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Gladesman wrote:

Oh, and rough & tough boy, I've been here since release as well.. just because you're loud and have got nothing else to do but post your annoyances doesn't mean you're right and others constantly have to agree with you.. you should be thankful people apparently still take the effort to dignify you with positive and negative replies to your massive essays about the wrongdoings to your beloved monk class. Ciao baby!

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You should've stayed a guardian, obviously.

As for being right, of course I am.  You're allowed to be wrong though, its okay.

As for being thankful people agree with me and respond, I could care less.  I post for me, not them.  I'm not a politician on some campaign, I'm saying what I want to say.

I do love the monk class though, unlike some players who go guardian when its overpowered and then switch to the next class they feel is overpowered - gotta love those flavor fo the month'ers, eh. 

[Sslarrga]

Aye, I wouldn't give jack snot about these issues if I didn't like the monk class and if I didn't like the "idea" of a monk.

 

Posting this isn't a way to try to downplay what a monk can and cannot do.  It's a way to get SoE to finally wake up and notice that just because monks haven't been whining as much the past few months that doesn't mean we don't notice that we ...  ARE ... NOT ... Balanced ...  When it comes to tanking...  Not even close.  And T7 with AAs just makes the disparity even more obvious.  And heroic dungeons where mobs can hit for raid like damage makes it more obvious.

 

Evidently if you take a clue from Guardians, you obviously have to whine...and whine a LOT to get things changed.

 

If you just assume that SoE will do the "right" thing then you'll be sitting there while all the classes that complain get what they ask for.

 

DPS isn't a concern.  From what I've seen so far any warrior or brawler can easily do enough DPS on a raid to pull aggro from MT.  IE - scouts will continue to do more DPS due to deaggro abilities and buffs.

 

What IS a concern.  Is the woeful tanking abilities of Monks.  I obviously can't speak for Bruisers tanking.  But I regularly see bruisers soloing easy white and yellow con heroics.  While for those same mobs I as a monk need at leasst 3...preferably 4 levels over them before I can even think about it.  So, I haven't a clue as to whether bruisers suffer the same problems when tanking high end heroics (HoF) and raids.

 

Yeah I love my monk so much I had to betray to that wretched city Qeynos to be a monk (wanted to play Ogre).  Even though I hate the absolute horrid layout of Qeynos compared to FP.

 

And DPS still wouldn't be a valid arguement even if warriors didn't have AAs that put them roughly on par with brawlers for DPS, as we are "supposed" be tanks roughly on par with the mitigation classes although slightly less so.  As it is, we are NOT on par.  And it isn't "slightly" less tanking ability.  Not even remotely.

 

I don't want to be a better Tank than a guardian.  I just want to be within spitting distance.  So that when our guild leader says lets have Croaker tank this 74x4 and see how it goes, I don't immediately go SPLAT with 8 healers healing me.  In T6 there were situations where me tanking was useful on a raid.  Even if my tanking was below that of a guardian it was still good enough that enough healing could offset the negatives.  In T7 so far, it seems like the gap is just getting wider and wider and wider.

 

T7 raid experiences.

 

Blue cons, no problem.  Avoidance works a charm.  But it does the same for the Guardian and Paladin.  Spike damage can still be lethal, but it's fairly rare.  Advantange mitigation tanks but not so much.

 

White cons, slight problem.  Avoidance works less well.  We start to be a power drain out of proportion to any benefit we might bring to tanking.  Spike damage is getting to be a major issue.  Mitigation still works a charm for Guardians and Paladins.  Bigger advantage mitigation tanks.

 

Yellow cons, depends on the mob.  Some are doable with enough healing, some are impossible as a Monk.  Either way we are a huge power drain even on ones that are doable.  Guardians and Paladins still don't have much trouble with the right strat.

 

Regards,

Croaker

[Noah]

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Gaige wrote:

 

I do love the monk class though, unlike some players who go guardian when its overpowered and then switch to the next class they feel is overpowered - gotta love those flavor fo the month'ers, eh. 

---

I like Vanilla.

 

Someone posted the Guardian buff that is a copy of Tsunami was 20 seconds long.... its 12.    At the same time im pretty sure the buckler thing is bugged BUT....  if a guardian did go down that line correctly, in a MT group set up they would still be sitting close to the 70% max avoidance cap anyway.  I dont like it, but then again I dont like shields either (since it is "Avoidance".... ).   

Sadly, the cap on mitigation make it so avoidance is needed to survive (at the raid lvl).   Mobs hit for 20k base damage... miti'd down to 6k... then dps debuffed (when finally applied) down to 3k.   The mechanic at the raid lvl needs tweeking to be faster/ smaller hits.... not the huge 6k smashes. 

 

[diamondma]

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Noah wrote:

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Gaige wrote:

 

I do love the monk class though, unlike some players who go guardian when its overpowered and then switch to the next class they feel is overpowered - gotta love those flavor fo the month'ers, eh. 

---

I like Vanilla.

 

Someone posted the Guardian buff that is a copy of Tsunami was 20 seconds long.... its 12.    At the same time im pretty sure the buckler thing is bugged BUT....  if a guardian did go down that line correctly, in a MT group set up they would still be sitting close to the 70% max avoidance cap anyway.  I dont like it, but then again I dont like shields either (since it is "Avoidance".... ).   

Sadly, the cap on mitigation make it so avoidance is needed to survive (at the raid lvl).   Mobs hit for 20k base damage... miti'd down to 6k... then dps debuffed (when finally applied) down to 3k.   The mechanic at the raid lvl needs tweeking to be faster/ smaller hits.... not the huge 6k smashes. 

 

---

i agree but for brawler's that cant cap out on mit what are we supposed to do? they either need to fix the combat system, fix the mobs, or makes some changes to the brawler class. either one of these and we would quit complainin for the most part.

[Gladesman]

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Gaige wrote:  do love the monk class though, unlike some players who go guardian when its overpowered and then switch to the next class they feel is overpowered - gotta love those flavor fo the month'ers, eh. 

---

Uhuh.. I created my guardian when the game came out, started my bruiser (and zerker) as alt not long after. Always preferred my bruiser even before LU13, but kept guardian alive to MT on raids. Now that's not necessary (and not just because other classes can tank, but simply because we got more higher lvl tanks) anymore I dropped her. And like I told you months ago.. guardians were not overpowered in any aspect of the game and brawlers have actually been incredily strong and useful classes since the launch of the game, it's just that hardly anybody noticed it because most people were and are far too focused on the supposed glitter & glamour of the MT spot.. narrowminded people like yourself, really :smileywink:

[Anjin]

I honestly think you must be a plate tank just trolling the brawler forums.  Compared to plate tank forums, we brawlers are very civilised.  This isn't due to our nerfs, but we actually feel an affinity towards our classes and want them progressed in the right way - hence we chose them. 

 

Prior to LU13 the main use for Monks was to stifle epics, NOT tank epics.  After LU 13, Tsunami came and we were great raid pullers (since we lost the ability to stifle epics that was our main use, along with group fd), now CA's one shot us with tsunami up,  our new T7 skill is average (and I have a M1) at best and our AA's are DPS focussed when we could take aggro WITHOUT more DPS in raids!

 

All I want is to have a position within a raid feel I'm getting the most out of my skillset , not just 'cos I can do group fd if needed.

 

Anjin

[Ssinis]

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Herbster wrote:

I honestly think you must be a plate tank just trolling the brawler forums.  Compared to plate tank forums, we brawlers are very civilised.  This isn't due to our nerfs, but we actually feel an affinity towards our classes and want them progressed in the right way - hence we chose them. 

 

Prior to LU13 the main use for Monks was to stifle epics, NOT tank epics.  After LU 13, Tsunami came and we were great raid pullers (since we lost the ability to stifle epics that was our main use, along with group fd), now CA's one shot us with tsunami up,  our new T7 skill is average (and I have a M1) at best and our AA's are DPS focussed when we could take aggro WITHOUT more DPS in raids!

 

All I want is to have a position within a raid feel I'm getting the most out of my skillset , not just 'cos I can do group fd if needed.

 

Anjin

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Amen to that, I am always put in left over groups in raid...

[SirensSong]

I love my monk, but it would be nice if other classes would stop laughing at me when I offer to tank.    Snobby jerks!!  Like many of you have said, I don't feel the need to be the *best* class (anyway, who *really* defines that??), but it would be nice to be a *comparable* class.  I spend most of my time soloing b/c I can't stand getting in groups where ppl want the guard 4 lvls lower to tank!

[pootski]

Weird.  I don't like to tank, I feel I am much better at DPS except for final boss mobs (group, not raid) where I have no problem keeping agro.  When I put up LFG, I cringe whenver I get an invite from someone I don't know, as it is usually for the tank job in HoF or some such.  Even when the person inviting is a 66-68 plate tank.

[SirensSong]

Could also be a server difference.  I know a lot more high lvl bruisers on my server than Monks, so maybe there's just not a whole lot of Monk love in Lucan D'Lere land.  Sadness.