Best ways to Gain and hold aggro

skril · 11-14-2006, 12:47 AM

Hey I have been playing this game as a guard for some time now but still everyone needs help sometimes. I was just what the general consencious is for the best way to gain and hold aggro over both 1 encounter and more than 1. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Spiritmongor

70 Guardian

Oasis

Ardors · 11-14-2006, 02:09 AM

First off you need the right group setup, having a Dirge and a Coercer in the group will give you your cap of 80% hate gain and add a Swash or an Assassin for hate transfer and your golden...Coercer and Dirge will also do wonders for your power since we all know our CAs are power hogs... Also having the Swash or Assassin at 100% dps (Coercer buff) will greatly increase your hate since they transfer that hate to you. I found useless going down the STR AA line for hate increase since you easily reach the cap with a Dirge&Coercer, so I went wis and Int line. That way I can self haste to 78% and with 100% dps with a good slash 1h weapon, it helps alot with hate generation because dont forget that 1 point of damage = 1 point of hate.

My fav group setup is Coercer, Dirge, Mystic, Templar, Swash, Guard. (for Raid)

With this setup, I never lose agro on single target. Only problem sometimes is group encounters, and thats where having a good CA combo really pay off. Heres what I do when pulling a group encounter:

Make sure your raid will give ya at least a couple seconds to establish agro on the pull. after the count down (important if ya want to get warded properly/bolster) pull the group, how you pull is very situational, I find myself proxy pulling alot to not get adds but I pull with an arrow when possible...a 4k hit of an arrow is a good start to your agro generation... now, sometimes, the mob you actually pulled from that encounter is not the first mob that will come to you...bind a key to "target closest mob" it is most important to have caus you will want to switch to that mob asap and hit it with confront right away...now you need to wait for the rest of them to get in Protection(AE Taunt) range and hit them.

Te next combo you wana do is Reinforcement then besiege and Goading assault...this is a great combo for group encounter caus the AE damage of besiege and goading assault will trigger the hate generation of Reinforcement for all mobs in the encounter. after that, Protection should soon be refreshed to use and now you should have good agro on all mobs...mages can still get agro if not carefull with their massive AE damage,,,they need to adjust.

I hope that help.

Ardor, 70 Guard from BB.

Message Edited by Ardors on 11-13-2006 02:59 PM

skril · 11-14-2006, 02:19 AM

Thnx alot for the help and I really like the "Reinforcement then besiege and Goading assault" routine you outlined. Good stuff thnx alot for the help.

Forms · 11-14-2006, 02:25 AM

Indeed good post, i honestly never thought to reinforcement before besieg because i thought it only procs on dd and not aoe. If this is indeed tru i need to start doing this as well. Only other suggestion i would have is that i usualy save my ho taunts for goading assult, seems to work better than ae taunt and single taunt but i could be seeing things :smileywink:

Kreagan De'Unerro · 11-14-2006, 02:04 PM

Make an HO macro as follow:

/usea Fighting Chance

/usea Overpower

/usea Confront

use this HO after you grab the target and establish encounter. This HO can be used every 10secs, and is also very useful to regain hate if someone momentarily steals it.

lostsandman · 11-14-2006, 08:15 PM

skrillz wrote:

Thnx alot for the help and I really like the "Reinforcement then besiege and Goading assault" routine you outlined. Good stuff thnx alot for the help.

I do the above my self as well but i always wondered the following ,

Say you have agro (so you are top of the hate list) and you cast Reinforcement, are you not wasting the "increase your hate position by 1" bit of Reinforcement ?

Of course the extra 300 or so hate you get from Reinforcement increase hate but it does not change your hate position on the mobs hate list.

Sometime i wonder may be its worth saving Reinforcement like rescue when someone take agro form you.

Sir_Halbarad · 11-14-2006, 09:11 PM

lostsandman wrote:

skrillz wrote:
Thnx alot for the help and I really like the "Reinforcement then besiege and Goading assault" routine you outlined. Good stuff thnx alot for the help.

I do the above my self as well but i always wondered the following ,

Say you have agro (so you are top of the hate list) and you cast Reinforcement, are you not wasting the "increase your hate position by 1" bit of Reinforcement ?

Of course the extra 300 or so hate you get from Reinforcement increase hate but it does not change your hate position on the mobs hate list.

Sometime i wonder may be its worth saving Reinforcement like rescue when someone take agro form you.

Exactly

Reinforcement is a "get aggro back fast" tool.

Domiuk · 11-14-2006, 09:22 PM

Reinforcement for me is a "rescue" i do not use until i need to take take / regain agro from somebody else.

Increasing your position on the hate list isnt very useful if your already in the top slot.

To be honest if your fighting primarily group encounters there are better choices for mt than a guardian.

If there mostly pairs of mobs use a 2nd tank MA on the mob your not actively on.

Guards excel at single tough mobs but too many people seem to think we have it great for aoe encounters as well.

2 taunts and a very short range aoe blue attack is not a fantastic aoe output.

In comparison with the expansion i believe paladins are up to about 8 aoe attacks/taunts AND can put amends on a big aoe hitter.

Of the plate tanks guardians are almost certainly the best for single target hate gain and the weakest for multiple targets.

This doesnt mean we are crap at aoe , in fact give me a dirge, coercer and swashbuckler and my aoe agro holding is going to be very decent indeed.

However give a paladin, dirge coercer and a warlock and you just try pulling a mob off him.

lostsandman · 11-14-2006, 09:55 PM

Sir_Halbarad wrote:

lostsandman wrote:

skrillz wrote:

Thnx alot for the help and I really like the "Reinforcement then besiege and Goading assault" routine you outlined. Good stuff thnx alot for the help.

I do the above my self as well but i always wondered the following ,

Say you have agro (so you are top of the hate list) and you cast Reinforcement, are you not wasting the "increase your hate position by 1" bit of Reinforcement ?

Of course the extra 300 or so hate you get from Reinforcement increase hate but it does not change your hate position on the mobs hate list.

Sometime i wonder may be its worth saving Reinforcement like rescue when someone take agro form you.

Exactly

Reinforcement is a "get aggro back fast" tool.

Agree that is mainly a "get back agro fast tool" but i think with reduced timer on in in EoF it can be used as agro builder as well albeit less efficent than taunt

Docimodo · 11-15-2006, 01:37 AM

I used to feel the same about reinforcement being primarily a rescue tool. For memwipe mobs yes ofcourse but for everything else reinforcement coupled with 100% haste on a 1delay weapon witha cacaphony of blades is just nuts. Especially when you consider that hate buffs increase that threat component to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near 1k. As an example I can easily hold a mob from 30k raid dps without a buckler. I'd rather never lose a mob than lose it even once as that risks frontals and deaths on fights where either is not a good thing.

Sir_Halbarad · 11-15-2006, 05:16 PM

Docimodo wrote:
I used to feel the same about reinforcement being primarily a rescue tool. For memwipe mobs yes ofcourse but for everything else reinforcement coupled with 100% haste on a 1delay weapon witha cacaphony of blades is just nuts. Especially when you consider that hate buffs increase that threat component to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near 1k. As an example I can easily hold a mob from 30k raid dps without a buckler. I'd rather never lose a mob than lose it even once as that risks frontals and deaths on fights where either is not a good thing.

Did you spec away from buckler, Saracen?

Docimodo · 11-17-2006, 03:32 AM

Sir_Halbarad wrote:

Docimodo wrote:
I used to feel the same about reinforcement being primarily a rescue tool. For memwipe mobs yes ofcourse but for everything else reinforcement coupled with 100% haste on a 1delay weapon witha cacaphony of blades is just nuts. Especially when you consider that hate buffs increase that threat component to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near 1k. As an example I can easily hold a mob from 30k raid dps without a buckler. I'd rather never lose a mob than lose it even once as that risks frontals and deaths on fights where either is not a good thing.

Did you spec away from buckler, Saracen?

Yep. I've switched back and forth a few times now, going to buckler mainly because i was losing aggro when raid dps was reaching the high 20ks which made me feel like I was a crappy tank and then switching back whenever I could feel the extra damage i was recieving by using the buckler. Using reinforcement now as a regular as possible has solved my threat generation permanently. It could be argued buckler is better for memwiping mobs but the only one i have issues with is tarinax and i find that the extra ripostes arent worth it all especially since it seems once it faces me i cant hit the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing at all! its possible to just use taunts and not even auto attack tarinax when he is facing you to save up every valuable noncrushing skill for the third and forth memwipes

Sir_Halbarad · 11-17-2006, 07:40 AM

Docimodo wrote:

Sir_Halbarad wrote:

Docimodo wrote:
I used to feel the same about reinforcement being primarily a rescue tool. For memwipe mobs yes ofcourse but for everything else reinforcement coupled with 100% haste on a 1delay weapon witha cacaphony of blades is just nuts. Especially when you consider that hate buffs increase that threat component to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near 1k. As an example I can easily hold a mob from 30k raid dps without a buckler. I'd rather never lose a mob than lose it even once as that risks frontals and deaths on fights where either is not a good thing.

Did you spec away from buckler, Saracen?

Yep. I've switched back and forth a few times now, going to buckler mainly because i was losing aggro when raid dps was reaching the high 20ks which made me feel like I was a crappy tank and then switching back whenever I could feel the extra damage i was recieving by using the buckler. Using reinforcement now as a regular as possible has solved my threat generation permanently. It could be argued buckler is better for memwiping mobs but the only one i have issues with is tarinax and i find that the extra ripostes arent worth it all especially since it seems once it faces me i cant hit the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing at all! its possible to just use taunts and not even auto attack tarinax when he is facing you to save up every valuable noncrushing skill for the third and forth memwipes

Thanks for the reply SMILEY

How are you specced atm?I thought about leaving WIS 4,4,8,8 and going back to STR 4,5,8,8. But the INT line looks kinda nice too, although I never tried it out myself.

Docimodo · 11-21-2006, 12:51 AM

I'm still on str 4588 wis 4488. I was tempted to switch the now reduced wis line to agi 44448 to make up for the increased difficulty of encounters again SMILEY

But along with the majority of my guild i have retired my main for now to experience the new content in the game from complete zero on a different higher population server.

See you guys (and girls) around!

11-14-2006, 02:04 PM	#5
Kreagan De'Unerro Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 92	Make an HO macro as follow: /usea Fighting Chance /usea Overpower /usea Confront use this HO after you grab the target and establish encounter. This HO can be used every 10secs, and is also very useful to regain hate if someone momentarily steals it. __________________

11-14-2006, 08:15 PM	#6
lostsandman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 188	skrillz wrote: Thnx alot for the help and I really like the "Reinforcement then besiege and Goading assault" routine you outlined. Good stuff thnx alot for the help. I do the above my self as well but i always wondered the following , Say you have agro (so you are top of the hate list) and you cast Reinforcement, are you not wasting the "increase your hate position by 1" bit of Reinforcement ? Of course the extra 300 or so hate you get from Reinforcement increase hate but it does not change your hate position on the mobs hate list. Sometime i wonder may be its worth saving Reinforcement like rescue when someone take agro form you.

11-14-2006, 09:11 PM	#7
Sir_Halbarad Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: 4 Bayle Court, South Qeynos Posts: 509	lostsandman wrote: skrillz wrote: Thnx alot for the help and I really like the "Reinforcement then besiege and Goading assault" routine you outlined. Good stuff thnx alot for the help. I do the above my self as well but i always wondered the following , Say you have agro (so you are top of the hate list) and you cast Reinforcement, are you not wasting the "increase your hate position by 1" bit of Reinforcement ? Of course the extra 300 or so hate you get from Reinforcement increase hate but it does not change your hate position on the mobs hate list. Sometime i wonder may be its worth saving Reinforcement like rescue when someone take agro form you. Exactly Reinforcement is a "get aggro back fast" tool. __________________ Halbaradx - Guardian Dunamis - Splitpaw Dunamis is recruiting - visit us at www.dunamis-eq2.com Open Spots: Inquisitor \| Mystic \| Fury \| Sorcerer

11-14-2006, 09:55 PM	#9
lostsandman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 188	Sir_Halbarad wrote: lostsandman wrote: skrillz wrote: Thnx alot for the help and I really like the "Reinforcement then besiege and Goading assault" routine you outlined. Good stuff thnx alot for the help. I do the above my self as well but i always wondered the following , Say you have agro (so you are top of the hate list) and you cast Reinforcement, are you not wasting the "increase your hate position by 1" bit of Reinforcement ? Of course the extra 300 or so hate you get from Reinforcement increase hate but it does not change your hate position on the mobs hate list. Sometime i wonder may be its worth saving Reinforcement like rescue when someone take agro form you. Exactly Reinforcement is a "get aggro back fast" tool. Agree that is mainly a "get back agro fast tool" but i think with reduced timer on in in EoF it can be used as agro builder as well albeit less efficent than taunt

11-15-2006, 01:37 AM	#10
Docimodo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 246	I used to feel the same about reinforcement being primarily a rescue tool. For memwipe mobs yes ofcourse but for everything else reinforcement coupled with 100% haste on a 1delay weapon witha cacaphony of blades is just nuts. Especially when you consider that hate buffs increase that threat component to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near 1k. As an example I can easily hold a mob from 30k raid dps without a buckler. I'd rather never lose a mob than lose it even once as that risks frontals and deaths on fights where either is not a good thing. __________________

11-14-2006, 12:47 AM	#1
skril Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 9	Hey I have been playing this game as a guard for some time now but still everyone needs help sometimes. I was just what the general consencious is for the best way to gain and hold aggro over both 1 encounter and more than 1. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Spiritmongor 70 Guardian Oasis

11-14-2006, 02:09 AM	#2
Ardors Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 56	First off you need the right group setup, having a Dirge and a Coercer in the group will give you your cap of 80% hate gain and add a Swash or an Assassin for hate transfer and your golden...Coercer and Dirge will also do wonders for your power since we all know our CAs are power hogs... Also having the Swash or Assassin at 100% dps (Coercer buff) will greatly increase your hate since they transfer that hate to you. I found useless going down the STR AA line for hate increase since you easily reach the cap with a Dirge&Coercer, so I went wis and Int line. That way I can self haste to 78% and with 100% dps with a good slash 1h weapon, it helps alot with hate generation because dont forget that 1 point of damage = 1 point of hate. My fav group setup is Coercer, Dirge, Mystic, Templar, Swash, Guard. (for Raid) With this setup, I never lose agro on single target. Only problem sometimes is group encounters, and thats where having a good CA combo really pay off. Heres what I do when pulling a group encounter: Make sure your raid will give ya at least a couple seconds to establish agro on the pull. after the count down (important if ya want to get warded properly/bolster) pull the group, how you pull is very situational, I find myself proxy pulling alot to not get adds but I pull with an arrow when possible...a 4k hit of an arrow is a good start to your agro generation... now, sometimes, the mob you actually pulled from that encounter is not the first mob that will come to you...bind a key to "target closest mob" it is most important to have caus you will want to switch to that mob asap and hit it with confront right away...now you need to wait for the rest of them to get in Protection(AE Taunt) range and hit them. Te next combo you wana do is Reinforcement then besiege and Goading assault...this is a great combo for group encounter caus the AE damage of besiege and goading assault will trigger the hate generation of Reinforcement for all mobs in the encounter. after that, Protection should soon be refreshed to use and now you should have good agro on all mobs...mages can still get agro if not carefull with their massive AE damage,,,they need to adjust. I hope that help. Ardor, 70 Guard from BB. Message Edited by Ardors on 11-13-2006 02:59 PM

11-14-2006, 02:19 AM	#3
skril Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 9	Thnx alot for the help and I really like the "Reinforcement then besiege and Goading assault" routine you outlined. Good stuff thnx alot for the help.

11-14-2006, 02:25 AM	#4
Forms General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22	Indeed good post, i honestly never thought to reinforcement before besieg because i thought it only procs on dd and not aoe. If this is indeed tru i need to start doing this as well. Only other suggestion i would have is that i usualy save my ho taunts for goading assult, seems to work better than ae taunt and single taunt but i could be seeing things :smileywink:

11-14-2006, 09:22 PM	#8
Domiuk Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 177	Reinforcement for me is a "rescue" i do not use until i need to take take / regain agro from somebody else. Increasing your position on the hate list isnt very useful if your already in the top slot. To be honest if your fighting primarily group encounters there are better choices for mt than a guardian. If there mostly pairs of mobs use a 2nd tank MA on the mob your not actively on. Guards excel at single tough mobs but too many people seem to think we have it great for aoe encounters as well. 2 taunts and a very short range aoe blue attack is not a fantastic aoe output. In comparison with the expansion i believe paladins are up to about 8 aoe attacks/taunts AND can put amends on a big aoe hitter. Of the plate tanks guardians are almost certainly the best for single target hate gain and the weakest for multiple targets. This doesnt mean we are crap at aoe , in fact give me a dirge, coercer and swashbuckler and my aoe agro holding is going to be very decent indeed. However give a paladin, dirge coercer and a warlock and you just try pulling a mob off him.

11-15-2006, 05:16 PM	#11
Sir_Halbarad Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: 4 Bayle Court, South Qeynos Posts: 509	Docimodo wrote: I used to feel the same about reinforcement being primarily a rescue tool. For memwipe mobs yes ofcourse but for everything else reinforcement coupled with 100% haste on a 1delay weapon witha cacaphony of blades is just nuts. Especially when you consider that hate buffs increase that threat component to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near 1k. As an example I can easily hold a mob from 30k raid dps without a buckler. I'd rather never lose a mob than lose it even once as that risks frontals and deaths on fights where either is not a good thing. Did you spec away from buckler, Saracen? __________________ Halbaradx - Guardian Dunamis - Splitpaw Dunamis is recruiting - visit us at www.dunamis-eq2.com Open Spots: Inquisitor \| Mystic \| Fury \| Sorcerer

11-17-2006, 03:32 AM	#12
Docimodo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 246	Sir_Halbarad wrote: Docimodo wrote: I used to feel the same about reinforcement being primarily a rescue tool. For memwipe mobs yes ofcourse but for everything else reinforcement coupled with 100% haste on a 1delay weapon witha cacaphony of blades is just nuts. Especially when you consider that hate buffs increase that threat component to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near 1k. As an example I can easily hold a mob from 30k raid dps without a buckler. I'd rather never lose a mob than lose it even once as that risks frontals and deaths on fights where either is not a good thing. Did you spec away from buckler, Saracen? Yep. I've switched back and forth a few times now, going to buckler mainly because i was losing aggro when raid dps was reaching the high 20ks which made me feel like I was a crappy tank and then switching back whenever I could feel the extra damage i was recieving by using the buckler. Using reinforcement now as a regular as possible has solved my threat generation permanently. It could be argued buckler is better for memwiping mobs but the only one i have issues with is tarinax and i find that the extra ripostes arent worth it all especially since it seems once it faces me i cant hit the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing at all! its possible to just use taunts and not even auto attack tarinax when he is facing you to save up every valuable noncrushing skill for the third and forth memwipes __________________

11-17-2006, 07:40 AM	#13
Sir_Halbarad Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: 4 Bayle Court, South Qeynos Posts: 509	Docimodo wrote: Sir_Halbarad wrote: Docimodo wrote: I used to feel the same about reinforcement being primarily a rescue tool. For memwipe mobs yes ofcourse but for everything else reinforcement coupled with 100% haste on a 1delay weapon witha cacaphony of blades is just nuts. Especially when you consider that hate buffs increase that threat component to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near 1k. As an example I can easily hold a mob from 30k raid dps without a buckler. I'd rather never lose a mob than lose it even once as that risks frontals and deaths on fights where either is not a good thing. Did you spec away from buckler, Saracen? Yep. I've switched back and forth a few times now, going to buckler mainly because i was losing aggro when raid dps was reaching the high 20ks which made me feel like I was a crappy tank and then switching back whenever I could feel the extra damage i was recieving by using the buckler. Using reinforcement now as a regular as possible has solved my threat generation permanently. It could be argued buckler is better for memwiping mobs but the only one i have issues with is tarinax and i find that the extra ripostes arent worth it all especially since it seems once it faces me i cant hit the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing at all! its possible to just use taunts and not even auto attack tarinax when he is facing you to save up every valuable noncrushing skill for the third and forth memwipes Thanks for the reply How are you specced atm?I thought about leaving WIS 4,4,8,8 and going back to STR 4,5,8,8. But the INT line looks kinda nice too, although I never tried it out myself. __________________ Halbaradx - Guardian Dunamis - Splitpaw Dunamis is recruiting - visit us at www.dunamis-eq2.com Open Spots: Inquisitor \| Mystic \| Fury \| Sorcerer

11-21-2006, 12:51 AM	#14
Docimodo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 246	I'm still on str 4588 wis 4488. I was tempted to switch the now reduced wis line to agi 44448 to make up for the increased difficulty of encounters again But along with the majority of my guild i have retired my main for now to experience the new content in the game from complete zero on a different higher population server. See you guys (and girls) around! __________________