Melee dps vs spell dps

[Vulkan_NTooki]

Hi.

 

I've allways been under the impression that my spell dps will allways be alot higher than my melee dps.

 

I've done some parsing lately tho, and I was rather surprised at the result.

 

Setup:

My AA spec is as follows

Crusader: Str, 4,5,8  Sta 4,4,8, Int 4,4,8

Paladin: 3 in the first wrath path, and 3 in rightousness(debuff).

Edit: Parsing was done with str 550, Int 406

 

I assume my spell dps will increase somewhat when I max out wrath line.

 

I usually run at 64-88 haste, 51-75 dps every fight solo, and I use a Shadow axe.

 

Melee dps(Including weapon proc): 42 %

Spell dps(Including buff procs): 43 %

Dmg procs from items(Not weapon): 7 %

Heroic Oportunities: 3 %

AA abilities (Swiftaxe/Legionaire): 4 %

Situational (Master Strike): 1 %

 

As you can see, the melee dps is almost the same as Spell dps.

 

a small note tho.. I dont use Concecrate on all encounters. Only when fighting multiple mobs.. If I turn on concecrate on single encounters, I guess this will also improve my spell dps+ overall dps.

 

Message Edited by VulcanPromance on 01-04-2007 01:27 PM

[Anariale]

1)  What weapon do you have?2)  What level are all of your Spells/CA's?  Masters?3)  Make sure that youre counting all combat arts as melee, even though they are Divine damage.  Our only spells are as follows:-- Consecration-- Righeous Conviction-- Refusal of whatever-- Hallowed Judgement-- Divine Strike (Proc)-- E-something Strike (Proc)-- Brimstone-- Legionaire's whatever (AA DD)(If I missed one, let me know)From what Ive seen, the majority of our damage comes from melee, unless you have maxed spell crits.  With Maxed Spell Crits, our damage gets up to about 50/50 Melee/Magic.W

[Plaidler]

G'day,            you say your melee and spells are doing the same dge on your parser as above, but they arnt imo. Your mellee is being boosted by 70 haste and 550 str, your spells are being boosted by 406 int.If you gave the same str/int stats to both, say 450 and took away any xtra melee boosts like haste and dps mod, i bet the results would be different. The setup you have above is biased towards the melee way too much to give an acurate comparison to spell v melee imo.Plaidler -lev 70 PaladinNajena server

Message Edited by Plaidler on 01-04-2007 05:58 AM

[Wulfborne]

---

VulcanPromance wrote:

 

I usually run at 64-88 haste, 51-75 dps every fight solo, and I use a Shadow axe.

 

---

I can see the haste through items and AA, but how do you get 51-75 dps mod while solo? We have no abilities to jump this up, the Marr cloaks give 15 when proc'd, and adornments each give 3. Those adornments are only good for neck slot items, so at MOST you can have 3 (neck and 2 neck/wrist items). Do you have some other weapons/gear that accounts for the additional 27-51?~Hawke

[Wulfborne]

---

Anariale wrote:1)  What weapon do you have?2)  What level are all of your Spells/CA's?  Masters?3)  Make sure that youre counting all combat arts as melee, even though they are Divine damage.  Our only spells are as follows:-- Consecration-- Righeous Conviction-- Refusal of whatever-- Hallowed Judgement-- Divine Strike (Proc)-- E-something Strike (Proc)-- Brimstone-- Legionaire's whatever (AA DD)(If I missed one, let me know)From what Ive seen, the majority of our damage comes from melee, unless you have maxed spell crits.  With Maxed Spell Crits, our damage gets up to about 50/50 Melee/Magic.W

---

Wyrd,Question for you: Our other abilities not listed above that are classified as CA's - Does their damage output get affected by anything other than perhaps our Str? I mean, does their damage output improve with a better weapon, or would we see the same damage if we were weilding a toothpick? If CAs get modified by anything other than our str stats, then I need to play with doing more melee dps output. Any info appreciated. ~Hawke

[Mgunner]

---

Wulfborne wrote:

---

VulcanPromance wrote:

 

I usually run at 64-88 haste, 51-75 dps every fight solo, and I use a Shadow axe.

 

---

I can see the haste through items and AA, but how do you get 51-75 dps mod while solo? We have no abilities to jump this up, the Marr cloaks give 15 when proc'd, and adornments each give 3. Those adornments are only good for neck slot items, so at MOST you can have 3 (neck and 2 neck/wrist items). Do you have some other weapons/gear that accounts for the additional 27-51?

~Hawke

---

Pristine Imbued Ring of Strength.

[Wulfborne]

Bah. What ring is this? I can't find it on the EQ2Players search thinger. If a ring can give 27-51 DPS I'm gonna be all over it.Player crafted? Drop? I can't believe I hadn't heard of this thing...~Hawke

Message Edited by Wulfborne on 01-04-2007 09:19 AM

[Rocksthemic]

Actually, they player made rings that were nerfed so long ago have been stealth un-nerfed lol. They now give a dps proc in addition to the temporary str proc. They are now worth it to solo with, or if you are concerned about dps. I know my a swashy in my guild was suprised to find this out recently and soon as he did had 2 made so he could draw even more aggro than normal :smileytongue:

[Caetrel]

To Vulcan:  Nice post, I have been saying for a long time that melee dps is the bulk of our dps (with a 2hander, with a 1h as you are using for comparison it does end up about 50/50. To Wyrd:  Brimstone and Hallowed Judgment AOEs do not crit as spells, only Conviction and Consecrate do.  Unless they have changed things since I last tested (just pre EoF). To anyone who wants to test spell crits yourself easily and without parsing- Go someplace with some solo mobs, and repeatedly use all of your damage abilities over and over again.  If you have 8 AA points in spell crit the abilities that are affected will crit much more than half of the time.  The ones that rarely if ever crit are not treated as spells.  We have approximately 2 nukes, 2 AOEs, 2 procs that spell crit, that's it.  Rest are combat arts that happen to deal divine damage.

[Mgunner]

---

Wulfborne wrote:

---

VulcanPromance wrote:

 

I usually run at 64-88 haste, 51-75 dps every fight solo, and I use a Shadow axe.

 

---

I can see the haste through items and AA, but how do you get 51-75 dps mod while solo? We have no abilities to jump this up, the Marr cloaks give 15 when proc'd, and adornments each give 3. Those adornments are only good for neck slot items, so at MOST you can have 3 (neck and 2 neck/wrist items). Do you have some other weapons/gear that accounts for the additional 27-51?

~Hawke

---

It's one of the Mastercrafted T7 str bands that procs str and I believe 26% DPS. Since 2 don't stack, I use just one. The temporary buff lasts 45 seconds and has a chance to proc 0.8 times a minute, making it seem like it's always on. This is from memory, I'll dc when I get home.

[MeridianR]

Hallowed Judgement and Brimstone, do crit as spells.  At least they crit way more then they normally would.  With a Dirge running DKTM (putting our crits up to 75% with the int line) I see them crit a ton.  (Though maybe with melee crits, and DKTM it is possible....not sure would need to check my logs)DPS Mods:Totem from Princes = 15% dps modThree Adornments (need the gear for this) = 30% dpsDPS Mod Ring = 27% dps (I believe, but maybe it's 24 and the haste is 27)So that is probably where he was getting the dps mod.....or I am missing something else.

Message Edited by MeridianR on 01-04-2007 01:22 PM

[Anariale]

---

Wulfborne wrote:

---

Anariale wrote:
1)  What weapon do you have?
2)  What level are all of your Spells/CA's?  Masters?
3)  Make sure that youre counting all combat arts as melee, even though they are Divine damage.  Our only spells are as follows:
-- Consecration
-- Righeous Conviction
-- Refusal of whatever
-- Hallowed Judgement
-- Divine Strike (Proc)
-- E-something Strike (Proc)
-- Brimstone
-- Legionaire's whatever (AA DD)
(If I missed one, let me know)

From what Ive seen, the majority of our damage comes from melee, unless you have maxed spell crits.  With Maxed Spell Crits, our damage gets up to about 50/50 Melee/Magic.

W

---

Wyrd,

Question for you: Our other abilities not listed above that are classified as CA's - Does their damage output get affected by anything other than perhaps our Str? I mean, does their damage output improve with a better weapon, or would we see the same damage if we were weilding a toothpick? If CAs get modified by anything other than our str stats, then I need to play with doing more melee dps output. Any info appreciated.

~Hawke

---

Str affects our true CA's
Int affects our true Spells

DPS and Haste mod and our weapon only affect our base melee damage... but our base melee damage is the most significant portion of our damage output.

So to answer your question, if you had Gods Hammer of Smiting vs a Baby's Pacifier... the only part of them that would affect your CA/Spell damage are the Str and In ton the weapons.

 

W

[Anariale]

---

Caetrel wrote:
To Vulcan:  Nice post, I have been saying for a long time that melee dps is the bulk of our dps (with a 2hander, with a 1h as you are using for comparison it does end up about 50/50.

To Wyrd:  Brimstone and Hallowed Judgment AOEs do not crit as spells, only Conviction and Consecrate do.  Unless they have changed things since I last tested (just pre EoF).

To anyone who wants to test spell crits yourself easily and without parsing- Go someplace with some solo mobs, and repeatedly use all of your damage abilities over and over again.  If you have 8 AA points in spell crit the abilities that are affected will crit much more than half of the time.  The ones that rarely if ever crit are not treated as spells.  We have approximately 2 nukes, 2 AOEs, 2 procs that spell crit, that's it.  Rest are combat arts that happen to deal divine damage.

---

Brimstone and Hallowed Judgement do crit as spells... but Hallowed Judgement isnt an AE.  I think you're confusing it with Holy Circle, which is a melee attack.

Just the other day I went through the exercise to see if Spell Crits from the Int line are really worth it or not.  Its pretty obvious which abilities are modded by what crit-mod when you look at raid-wide parses.  Ill double check on Brimstone though, just to be sure, but Im 95% sure its Int-based and counts as a spell for crits.

[Fatuus]

---

MeridianR wrote:
Hallowed Judgement and Brimstone, do crit as spells.  At least they crit way more then they normally would.  With a Dirge running DKTM (putting our crits up to 75% with the int line) I see them crit a ton.  (Though maybe with melee crits, and DKTM it is possible....not sure would need to check my logs)

DPS Mods:

Totem from Princes = 15% dps mod
Three Adornments (need the gear for this) = 30% dps
DPS Mod Ring = 27% dps (I believe, but maybe it's 24 and the haste is 27)

So that is probably where he was getting the dps mod.....or I am missing something else.

Message Edited by MeridianR on 01-04-2007 01:22 PM

---

MeridianR you keep saying +30% dps mod gear, which gear are you talking about for paladins....I only know of paladins that can possible get +20% dps since we can't use satchels...is there another neck/wrist or Neck/earing item you are thinking of instead???

The only dps adornments that can be made can ONLY be adorned on neck and throwing weapons......thats it.

[Arraza]

I can confirm that brimstone is based off spell crits and int as well.  It crits waaay to often to be off my 25% melee crit.  Also, it increases its damage as I increase my int.  Same goes with Hallowed Judgement.

[Anariale]

---

Fatuus wrote:

---

MeridianR wrote:
Hallowed Judgement and Brimstone, do crit as spells.  At least they crit way more then they normally would.  With a Dirge running DKTM (putting our crits up to 75% with the int line) I see them crit a ton.  (Though maybe with melee crits, and DKTM it is possible....not sure would need to check my logs)

DPS Mods:

Totem from Princes = 15% dps mod
Three Adornments (need the gear for this) = 30% dps
DPS Mod Ring = 27% dps (I believe, but maybe it's 24 and the haste is 27)

So that is probably where he was getting the dps mod.....or I am missing something else.

Message Edited by MeridianR on 01-04-2007 01:22 PM

---

MeridianR you keep saying +30% dps mod gear, which gear are you talking about for paladins....I only know of paladins that can possible get +20% dps since we can't use satchels...is there another neck/wrist or Neck/earing item you are thinking of instead???

The only dps adornments that can be made can ONLY be adorned on neck and throwing weapons......thats it.

---

Step 1 - Get Neck/Wrist swappable item
Step 2 - Put Item on Neck
Step 3 - Apply 10% DPS Adornment
Step 4 - Move item to wrist
Repeat Step 1 as necessary

Thus, you can have 3 items (Neck and 2 Wrists) with 10% DPS Adornments

W

[khufure]

A little tip: the ring that drops off the last named in obelisk is pretty good.  It's 8% of my dps and it heals for a corresponding amount!

[Wulfborne]

Yeah, the Signet of Light from Darkness or something.. I finally won one a few days ago.~Hawke

[Caetrel]

Yah Wyrd I meant Holy Circle.  I found my old list.   Refusal of Faith, Hallowed Judgment, Brimstone, Relentless Conviction , Consecrate, Brimstone, and our personal and group divine procs ARE affected by spell criticals, everything else is melee. Backlash, Righteous Condemnation, Chastising Strike, Devout Strike, Extinguish Will , Holy Circle, all melee.   

[Seomon]

---

Caetrel wrote:
Yah Wyrd I meant Holy Circle.  I found my old list.   Refusal of Faith, Hallowed Judgment, Brimstone, Relentless Conviction , Consecrate, Brimstone, and our personal and group divine procs ARE affected by spell criticals, everything else is melee.

Backlash, Righteous Condemnation, Chastising Strike, Devout Strike, Extinguish Will , Holy Circle, all melee.

  

---

I'll give you a 95% for that try. You are 50% correct on Extinguish Will, and 50% wrong. Notice that it applies Glorious Strike on termination (instant)... that it a spell crit. Also, Castigate is affected by spell crits, and Doom Judgment is affected by melee. Not sure if you missed anything else, but those are 2 I noticed missing.

[MeridianR]

---

Anariale wrote:

---

Fatuus wrote:

---

MeridianR wrote:

Hallowed Judgement and Brimstone, do crit as spells.  At least they crit way more then they normally would.  With a Dirge running DKTM (putting our crits up to 75% with the int line) I see them crit a ton.  (Though maybe with melee crits, and DKTM it is possible....not sure would need to check my logs)DPS Mods:Totem from Princes = 15% dps modThree Adornments (need the gear for this) = 30% dpsDPS Mod Ring = 27% dps (I believe, but maybe it's 24 and the haste is 27)So that is probably where he was getting the dps mod.....or I am missing something else.

Message Edited by MeridianR on 01-04-2007 01:22 PM

---

MeridianR you keep saying +30% dps mod gear, which gear are you talking about for paladins....I only know of paladins that can possible get +20% dps since we can't use satchels...is there another neck/wrist or Neck/earing item you are thinking of instead???

The only dps adornments that can be made can ONLY be adorned on neck and throwing weapons......thats it.

---

Step 1 - Get Neck/Wrist swappable itemStep 2 - Put Item on NeckStep 3 - Apply 10% DPS AdornmentStep 4 - Move item to wristRepeat Step 1 as necessary

Thus, you can have 3 items (Neck and 2 Wrists) with 10% DPS Adornments

W

---

What he said!

[Caetrel]

---

I'll give you a 95% for that try. You are 50% correct on Extinguish Will, and 50% wrong. Notice that it applies Glorious Strike on termination (instant)... that it a spell crit. Also, Castigate is affected by spell crits, and Doom Judgment is affected by melee. Not sure if you missed anything else, but those are 2 I noticed missing.

---

Got me on glorious strike heh.  I didn't mess with Castigate or DJ because they are pretty irrelevant to dps, though Castigate can be decent when it is able to be used.  Also, they would have been a pita to test out with the long recast  :smileytongue:

[Vulkan_NTooki]

I dont have 3 dps adorns.. I have 1.. on neck item.. the neck item also has 7 dps mod to start with. Forgot name.

I wear 2 x finger bone manacles for wrist with +14 int adornments on em. And the bone clasped girdle for waist(there is a neck/waist item apperantly).

I dont think its any point in upgrading my manacles to dps mod items, since with group buffs I'll reach the point of diminish returns anyways. And the manacles would be more useful then.

My dps mods are from these items

Neck +7 +10 adornment

Imbued ring of str(t7) + 24 dps, procs of melee attack. (this procs every [Removed for Content] fight).

Underworld Legplates +34 dps. This procs just about constantly and lasts 30 secs. (used to be 10 percent every melee attack).

I would be at 105 self buffed dps if I chose to replace my belt, and 2 wrist items with dps mod items.

The melee % I posted was straight outa ACT. I believe they add all CA's to that automatically.

 

Once I get some descent symbols, Im gonna equip 2 +45 divine damage adornments on em. This should improve spell dps some. I'll also strive to get more int from adornments so that I can get to point of diminishing returns for int too.

Februar and march Im home alone without kids, then I might just finish up wrath line in AA too to see even more spell dps.

Something interesting tho. Flickering Death(The proc off Shadowaxe) is 10 percent of all my dmg. Its a divine proc. That was with a cold proc adornment on it.

Im gonna add temper of rightoussness(318 dmg proc divine dmg) to it. Now if the +45 divine dmg adornments affect the procs from this axe, the dps is gonna be amazing on this 1h weapon.

[Lord_Quaymar]

OK....all of the DPS info. is cool...thanks guys!

But, regarding the Haste....how in the heck do you get over 40% Haste solo? I have tried all kinds of different things but cannot get beyond 40%. I have the AA's and an adornment on my weapon (I did that so I could upgrade my gloves and still have some haste) and I tried putting on a haste item and it had no effect at all....what am I missing?

[Vulkan_NTooki]

imbued agi ring gives 24 speed proc, and str aa axe buff gives 24 speed.. lasts for 20 secs, 10 secs down before recast.. so its up 2/3 of the fighting time.

[Lord_Quaymar]

---

VulcanPromance wrote:
imbued agi ring gives 24 speed proc, and str aa axe buff gives 24 speed.. lasts for 20 secs, 10 secs down before recast.. so its up 2/3 of the fighting time.

---

Oh...ok...I see now. Thanks.

[Wallzak]

The dps adornments... does anyone have the name of them?

[Anariale]

Btw, I checked the other night.  On a full HoS run, I was like 61% melee, 39% Spell.I was in Defensive stance with a Sword and Shield for the full raid.STA - 4 4 8Wis - 4 4 8Int - 5 4 821 Hero5 Rightousness5 Righteous Conviction3 Brimstone100+ DPS Mod23 HasteDont get me wrong, the Spell Crits add a ton of DPS, but we still do most of our damage based on Melee.W

[MeridianR]

---

Anariale wrote:Btw, I checked the other night.  On a full HoS run, I was like 61% melee, 39% Spell.I was in Defensive stance with a Sword and Shield for the full raid.STA - 4 4 8Wis - 4 4 8Int - 5 4 821 Hero5 Rightousness5 Righteous Conviction3 Brimstone100+ DPS Mod23 HasteDont get me wrong, the Spell Crits add a ton of DPS, but we still do most of our damage based on Melee.W

---

100 dps mod, hmmm someone had a Coercer and Dirge   (or depending how far over 100, an Inquis or Bruiser...lol)I tanked Crab a couple weeks back just for AA, and my DPS mod was something like 163...lol, that was a good time (Coercer, Dirge, Bruiser and Inquis...lol)

[Lord_Quaymar]

---

Anariale wrote:
Btw, I checked the other night.  On a full HoS run, I was like 61% melee, 39% Spell.
I was in Defensive stance with a Sword and Shield for the full raid.

STA - 4 4 8
Wis - 4 4 8
Int - 5 4 8

21 Hero
5 Rightousness
5 Righteous Conviction
3 Brimstone

100+ DPS Mod
23 Haste

Dont get me wrong, the Spell Crits add a ton of DPS, but we still do most of our damage based on Melee.

W

---

Unless you were tanking, you should use a 2 hander and see how much DPS that does.