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#1 |
Loremaster
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17
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![]() SKs UNITE
After playing more and more with my SK I’ve started to notice some things that needed to be changed about our class. Please give your comments and let’s get some things changed to help make our class more valuable on raids. Currently I hate to see when you only need one of a certain class in order to gain there buffs and debuffs. Here are the changes I would like to see in order of priority. We really need to all unite and get some of these changes implemented.
1) First and most important change Death March in raids so that if any person in the raid kills the MOB then your group still gets credit for it if they are engaged. This would make us MUCH MUCH more valuable on raids. You could take 4 of us for each group.
2) Increase the duration of Death March to 20 seconds instead of 15. This is mainly for when are in experience groups. You simply can’t kill a MOB and pull the next in this amount of time. Not to mention the game timer of 15 seconds is way to fast.
3) I have some serious issues of why SK’s have such issues tanking epic mobs. At level 60+ Guardians, Berzerkers, Bruisers, and Monks all tank better against epics. The mitigation gap between SKs and Guardians and Zerkers has grown way too far. To fix this problem don’t give us more mitigation but allow us to have a Mitigation Tap that lets say siphons 300 off of mobs and gives it to ourselves. Make it like Siphon STR.
4) Where is our upgrade to Mana Sieve? Enough said
5) FD timer needs to be increased so that we can FD a healer or some group member long enough to rez raid after everyone is dead. 30seconds to 1 minute would be a good time range. The current 20 seconds just isn’t cutting it.
6) AOE taunts we need more of them and better single taunts. A true AOE taunt is needed also. I just can’t keep agro on large groups of MOBs especially with reactive healing and heals it just drives MOBs crazy. Now I know you guys will say use AOEs to gain agro but I do and it just inst enough. Not to mention sometimes in zones you can’t use AOEs or you will get owned or break single mob mez.
I think these things will help make us wanted and more valuable on raids and exp groups. Please Sony look at these and think about them. They go in order of importance. I know that many of the SKs on my server have read these posts and agree with them. Jarrett to name one but he has had problems posting. I would still like to see SKs get invis but that’s another issue. |
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#2 |
General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 108
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#3 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 34
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I'm not sure how your keyboard is set up, but most people I speak with (and myself included) just have to hit "x" on their keyboard and they instantly pop up. I know I constantly FD healers or anyone else taking agro away from the MT and over Team Speak I just tell them to hit x when they're ready to pop up. Alot easier than searching through your buff bar trying to click it off. :smileywink:
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Mallec D'Armaego - 80 SK Main Runnyeye Serovth - 80 Troub Alt Runnyeye Zilas - 80 Dirge Alt Runnyeye |
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#4 |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 32
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I've learned to live with all those faults, but yeah my only wish is that they fix our FD. But I want it to be a toggle =)
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#5 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 58
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![]() 1) First and most important change Death March in raids so that if any person in the raid kills the MOB then your group still gets credit for it if they are engaged. This would make us MUCH MUCH more valuable on raids. You could take 4 of us for each group. I would have to agree with this statement, but don't believe it should be ranked as #1.
2) Increase the duration of Death March to 20 seconds instead of 15. This is mainly for when are in experience groups. You simply can’t kill a MOB and pull the next in this amount of time. Not to mention the game timer of 15 seconds is way to fast. Again I agree the timer on this spell is way too quick alot of the times the spell is done by the time you have the second mob killed. Most grouped mobs have more then 2 in the group.
3) I have some serious issues of why SK’s have such issues tanking epic mobs. At level 60+ Guardians, Berzerkers, Bruisers, and Monks all tank better against epics. The mitigation gap between SKs and Guardians and Zerkers has grown way too far. To fix this problem don’t give us more mitigation but allow us to have a Mitigation Tap that lets say siphons 300 off of mobs and gives it to ourselves. Make it like Siphon STR. There are alot of ways to correct this issue and SK's should unite and come up with one solution. Whether it be as Broxus suggested here or other way. IE. Boost our healing buffs etc
4) Where is our upgrade to Mana Sieve? Enough said Don't need to say anything here.
5) FD timer needs to be increased so that we can FD a healer or some group member long enough to rez raid after everyone is dead. 30seconds to 1 minute would be a good time range. The current 20 seconds just isn’t cutting it. I think FD is fine now, however I wouldn't complain if they did increase the timer.
6) AOE taunts we need more of them and better single taunts. A true AOE taunt is needed also. I just can’t keep agro on large groups of MOBs especially with reactive healing and heals it just drives MOBs crazy. Now I know you guys will say use AOEs to gain agro but I do and it just inst enough. Not to mention sometimes in zones you can’t use AOEs or you will get owned or break single mob mez. This I think should be our #1 concern, however I disagree with getting another group taunt. Sacrilege does a pretty good job at Master II, occasionally mobs will break if someone in the group eventually does alot of damage to them. That is usually caused by someone in the group attaking that mob instead of what the tank is attacking, or they have done alot of damage over time. It is true we can hold aggro better if we use some of our AoE spells like doom judgment and tap veins, but I think maybe our caress skills should be improved to give us more hate gain with every successful hit on the SK. I think that would greatly improve this issue.
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Cemiaph 70 Shadowknight AB Streebe 74 Dirge AB Sleeker 33 Necro AB |
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#6 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 30
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![]() MITIGATION & HATE!!! I think this is our biggest issue, paly's included(though I feel paly's are way better off than we are atm)
All other tank classes get some sort of mitigation buff, weither it be short term or long term... We get a mitigation buff....to cast on someone else....that takes away from our mitigation....awesome!
Guardians and berserkers have 3 [Removed for Content] taunts!! Not to mention hate procs and most of their moves can increase hate. We have 2 and a half taunts.... or hate over time....
Throw us a [Removed for Content] bone here SOE |
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#7 |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21
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![]() Personally, I don't tend to have issues with hate on raids, and mitigation isn't really a problem for me with all of the equipment out there to boost it. However, one line here really caught my interest. Making Death March viable in a raid would really help boost our usefulness in the DPS group. Personally, i've spent most of my career in the MT group, either as MT or backing up the MT. Both jobs, I feel im well suited for. However, zerkers and pallies find a lot of use in the DPS group. SK's just don't generate anything really worth having in that group. Our Death March is unique in that it really is not suited for use in raids. The zerker proc, which makes groupmates go berserk and do incredible dmg, is based on a %of hits, % of taking dmg, and % of deathblows. While these are all based on the individual, not the group like Death March, they have a considerably higher chance of procing in a raid. The main difference is on at least one proc chance you only compete with the %, not the rest of the raid. We tested this for usefulness in a raid the other night by putting one of our SK's in the DPS group. After only 1 proc in the entire first hour, she was moved in favor of power regen. Basically, any improvement to the odds of procing this in a raid would really help. Of all the concerns I read about here this fix would be the most exciting in my oppinion. That and the feign death timer. 20 seconds is just too risky, people are still running around after 20 seconds. Kosuke
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#8 |
Loremaster
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17
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![]() 1) First and most important change Death March in raids so that if any person in the raid kills the MOB then your group still gets credit for it if they are engaged. This would make us MUCH MUCH more valuable on raids. You could take 4 of us for each group. Will never happen, cause if it did, all the other classes with procs, abilities, that have timers & god knows what else would then want there's to do it. Suddenly you have a raid force all so buffed, that the encounters start compensating for it & thus begins the downward spiral of torture that is eq1.
I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. Im not saying that the proc should work for the entire raid that would just be dumb. I was talking about if we are in a raid and our group was engaged with a mob and someone else get the killing blow it should still trigger Death March for our group. This would make more than one SK wanted on a raid for our single mitigation debuff. It would just allow us to take the place of a DPS guy that otherwise would have been there. I dont think that this is unbalanced it just makes us wanted more. It also would be of now value on Epic single mobs. It would just help when there are lots of mobs in one fight. Maybe they could place it on seperate timers that if your in a raid the spell only works for 15 secs per kill and in just a single group for exp lasts for 20 seconds. |
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#9 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 52
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Death march does need to trigger raid wide. The buff it gives isnt enough of a WOWOWOWOOMGZ to warrant restricting it the way it is.
The reason our FD is as short as it is is becuase we can cast it on others. Find me a class that can do that? Thats right, just us. The monk group FD still isnt as versatile as ours. Thats why it hasnt been changed, although perhaps a slight upgrade like 1 minute or so would be sufficient.
~darkaren sk of ne plus ultra, guk |
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#10 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7
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![]() SOE needs to do some serious work with the SK class. I have played a SK through the trials and tribulations o EQ1 and will stay with my class in EQ2 just hoping they will finally give us some attention as Mor does the monk/bruisers. Jarrett 70 S
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#11 |
Loremaster
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17
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![]() Ive been researching more about the other Warrior classes and have become very upset. Ive noticed classes like Guardians, Zerkers, and even monks have huge huge mitigation buffs. They can raise there mitigation by over 1100 for 30secs and has a 1min or less recast timer. My question is simple why dont SKs have anything at all like this?? What i propose a new line of spells that is Mitigation siphons. I dont think it should be exactly the same amount as the other warrior ones but about half of it and it siphons it out of the enemy. This will help fill the gap that is starting to grow HUGE with SK vs all other warriors mitigation. It just makes me sick when Brusiers have higher mitigation and avoidance on raids then SKs and we wear #$#$ plate armor. |
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#12 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 541
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![]() This thread has been for me a mix of agree/disagree, but on the whole thing with the bruiser having higher mitigation you've lost me completely. Under what circumstances does a brawler type ever have more mitigation than a plate-wearing class? Avoidance I can see since that's a brawler's forte, but mitigation? No. What's the specific buff that they can do and by what amount does it increase mitigation? How is this stacking with other buffs that are in that particular group? Is he wearing fabled? Legendary? Treasured? I think there's a lot of variables to take into account here before raising the issue of whether or not what you are observing is a balance issue. |
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#13 |
Loremaster
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17
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![]() Bud, I hear ya about the brusier and he was in a mix of legenday/Fabled. His mitigation was almost 5500. Now how he managed that in fabled or not it should never happen. I cant say for sure if Brusiers have good mitigation Self buffs like Monks, Zerker, Guardian but they probably do. His avoidance was at 75%. Personally I dont care what buffs he had on him he should never have that much mitigation. My mitigation sits at about max 4k ish buffed.
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#14 |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21
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![]() For mitigation, I believe our buffs adequately compensate us for the rest of our abilities. We have a ton of advantages, us and Paladins, that would make self or group mitigation buffs overpowered. First off we have the ability to heal ourselves through direct lifetaps. Monks and Warriors really do not have anything like this on the level that we do, even with recent AA supplements like bind wound. We are also one of the few classes that can buff another classes Mitigation, without having to recast every 3 minutes. No matter what buffs Warriors and Monks get, they are all temp buffs and must be used strategically. As for monks having more mitigation than us, I have to call bluff. Here is the buff: Mountain Stance (Master I) ![]() ![]() Target:Caster Power:138 Casting:3.0 seconds Recovery:0.5 seconds Recast:180.0 seconds Duration:30.0 seconds Weight:1.0 Level:68Monk Effects: ![]() ![]() This increases the monks mit by a truckload for 30 seconds, but it also stuns the monk. Best case situation, its for use in emergencies. We had a monk try to tank an exceptionally hard raid mob with this once, and he got pulverized anyhow. With a 3 minute recast, its hard to justify that as having more mitigation. In the end, I think we have plenty of mitigation to be justifiable as MT when called to action.
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#15 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12
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They really should just nerf the DPS% and the int boost and just make it like the warrior/zerker mitigation buffs. i.e. every 3 mins we can give our group immune to stifles/stuns/etc and dps/int boost for 30 secs
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#16 |
Loremaster
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17
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I would go for that if it had a 30 second timer
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#17 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Durham, UK
Posts: 928
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![]() obviously my experiances are limited as most of my spells are adept3 or master and my SK went from about level 20-60 in about a month, so time spent at lower levels with less spells available was also limited. |
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#18 |
General
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 737
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i'll comment on bruiser mitigation in %. (i prefer to compare it by % over the numerical value). in Off mode i'm @ 30%, Def mode 34%, With a defiler in group (my 2box alt) I can get in the low 40s. that perma mitigation. I have 3 other ways to gain mitigation which i admit i have peaked at 85% but all 3 have some sort of negative side effect. 1 is a buff thats 3 mins on 3 minute off that uses health over time (only useful if i'm taking massive damage). Another one gives me mitigation for 30 seconds but i'm stunned while its on. I also have an AA that gives me mitgation when i hit 30% health or lower which means thats just good to hope to buy me 1 more hit before i die. So yea i technically COULD have more mitigation than a SK but for me to i have to be near death, stunned, with a buff that eats at my health. for refrence my gear is mostly T7 legendary with def stance and mit buffs at m1 level.
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#19 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 58
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![]() As shown brawlers can get temp mit, but it doesn't save them much. The key to a brawlers survival is avoidance. If he doesn't avoid he will take considerable damage compared to a plate wearer. I have never played a brawler, but I grp with a 68 in my guild often enough, and against tougher mobs he will take alot of damage. Brawlers are the DPS of the warriors. Besides I don't think we should be comparing ourselves to any class. Leave the crying to the nerf herders. Lets focus on problems that deal with SK's and get them resolved without stating what class has what over us. Our biggest issue is aggro, and I believe this is true for all Tank classes. As I stated there is no need to get into what class has what to do this better, but I have seen all tank classes have this issue. I posted in another thread that stated I believe the calculation for hate should be looked at. The ratio of hate gain from taunts vs dps is not correct. Does anyone have an insight as to what the formula may be for hate gain?
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Cemiaph 70 Shadowknight AB Streebe 74 Dirge AB Sleeker 33 Necro AB |
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#20 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,239
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Then Than You're Your They're There Their |
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#21 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 357
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well DM is imho only usefull if u solo or group, i can keep "on the march" going for 70 sec with the the right group ... so no need to change it if u ask me!! On raids, well depends on what group ur in ... I have been in groups where i had 100% dps/haste with maxed int ... due to other classes buffs, which are a bit more controlled! I think our AE taunts are alright, I only have an issue with our single taunt ... I hate having a weak ToT mixed up with dmg. A pure Taunt would be much more to my likings or heck i could be pleased with an pure Hate ToT ... but having a mix of hate/disease damage is what I don't like - and that is imho the root of most of our probs, if we loose aggro it is a hell of a job to regain it due to the slow and low tot. So if something needs to be looked at then it is our single taunt, if you ask me. Well mitigation ... long long story. If one looks who our carrss line works, you would think that and sk should have the highest mitigation in game and lowest avoidance, as more we get hit as better is our aggro ... at least that is what the carress is all about! unfortunately that is not the case, which makes the caress line a bit of a flaw ... Would be cool if i could give up x % of avoidance for y% of extra mitigation. FD, i can only guess that SoE wants to keep it that short for us to regain aggro, and not to save our [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] (or someone else) on a raid whipe! But for a 1min FD i'd clearly give my thumps up ... I was not to happy after the DoF release with what they had done to SKs ... but imho they made up for it with KoS, as the Crusader AA can make u a nasty SoB on raids which good RLs surely are looking for ...
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#22 |
Loremaster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NJ / Unrest
Posts: 1,858
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![]() FD Someone mentinoed it's difficult to click off. Just press "X"!! Stands you right up, also used in K'Dal. Yes the timer sucks on this, usually just long enough for me to hit it in time and pop up just before the mob kills the last few ppl in my raid and bye bye me.
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