SK updates, what will happen and what should happen??

Rylight · 07-04-2005, 09:22 AM

ok first off let me start off by saying that all fighters can and should all be able to tank well. equally well?? really just depends on the situation. and sadly I have no idea how well bruiser/monks can tank, but I am assuming they can tank well.

second, sk's can tank, period.. if you cant agree with that dont even read any further.

to the point I have been trying to keep up with these latest future updates but seem to be falling behind. what seems major is that defence/tanking ablitity is going to be changed, and that intellegence will now be affecting sk's alot more then it previously was

it seems we will now be doing damage output as much as zerkers, while paladins and guardians take the defence piece of the pie. so what do I think of this....... well lets look up the definition of a shadowknight, " inflict fear and pain upon others" therefore I would agree we should be dishing out a good deal of dps, at least compared to the other fighters.

so how are we going to do this??? are our buffs going to get better so we dish out more pain close to a zerker?? are we going to get quicker in hitting, or more powerful?? or are we just going to get stronger spells or be more mana effiecent to cast more spells??Currently as a 42 sk, I see we should really have much of our potential in the ability to do aoe's. I personally think that we as sk's are the aoe kings of fighters, and currently have powerful aoe's as it is, but I think they could also be kicked up alittle. also our lifetapping ablilty shoud be kicked up a notch too.

CHECK THIS. swarming spirits at my lvl hits for about 150-220 aoe damage and returns about 80hp, which helps a little bit in a solo group fight, but in a herioc group fight only helps so much, so what I am saying is WHY DONT OUR ABLITIES (or at least this one) SCALE WITH OUR FIGHTS??

I think that instead the spell should not only do aoe damage to every oppenent in the encounter but also lifetap every oppenent in the encounter. I mean if you are figthing two mobs, you probably dont need a mega heal, but if you are fighting six and things are getting a little crazy, it would be nice to be able to heal yourself (lets see, 6x80) 480 hp and give the healer a little le-way considering we are not the best defense tank in the game, and also considering at my level mobs are hitting a regular 250-1000hp per hit, so its not overly drastic ( though it would leave us overpowered in solo group encounters) and I say that with respect to paladins cause im not trying to step into there territory

SO WHAT IS GONNA MAKE US AS GOOD AS ZERKERS EXACTLY?? OR WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD?? I like how instead of using group taunts and buffs we instead have a good arsenal of aoe's to maintain large encounter aggros and keep the mobs [Removed for Content] off at us. small things like that is what makes an sk an sk, we cant taunt the best, but yet we still find a way around it. or like the idea that are defence isnt the greatest, but our wards can make up for that a little (espically since after this update are wards are supposed to be alot more useful) anyways I want to see little things like that define our class, and even make us better tanks, or dps tanks, or whatever they are planning to do.

so somebody inform me,,,,,,,WHAT EXACTLY WILL THE SK OF THE (NEAR) FUTURE BE LIKE???

Wildgo · 07-04-2005, 01:15 PM

Now it may be that since I was working since 11 last night and it is now 6 in the morning but I have to agree with the last poster, and I like his ideas. I have preached for a while now that our lifetap line needed to be looked into and what you are saying would be a fair way of doing it. As for the upcomming changes to the fighting classes I really dont know what it is going to hold. And as far as I can tell not to many people know that this new shuffle is going to hold for us good or bad, but I would like to see them drop it already so we can work out the kinks that are sure to happen from it. But yes back to the original point, I think this poster is on the right track to balance, with what is said above we are not stepping on anyone's toes so to say and we are not making it so we gain an unfair advantage, but it would help to define the class of Sk much more.

Wildgoon, 46Sk

Befallen

Yrield · 07-04-2005, 09:57 PM

In normal group Crusaders need 2 thing: 1. better aggro management 2. better power efficiency Those 2 things are part of the combat revamp Raid encounter need to be changed, the whole idea of one guys taking the beat for 23 others dudes is stupid. Starting with the idea where every fighter get one special defense, something like: Berseker: mental Guardian: magic SK: disease Paladin: Divine You work the encounter in a ways where more than 1 tank is needed (and useful) [the whole thing work well for raid instanced zone]: You have 2 dragons, bob and bobby, the 2 dragons are not linked but are part of the same encounter (you need to kill both to get the chest) Bob is an heavy divine caster and bobby is an heavy disease caster (can be a divine/disease proc on their physical attack as well, so the mob don't need to be a pure caster) So the most obvious choice to tank bob is a paladin and a SK to tank bobby. Both dragon need to be beaten at the same time, because if you kill one dragon while the other still have over 50% HP, he can rez the dead dragon (those dragon are uber and have a good health regen if you don't beat the crap out of them, so you have to fight both a the same time, you can't beat one down to 49% switch to the 2nd kill him and switch back to the first, kill him and win) Bob and Bobby can summon minions to help them, those minions are soft coded and shared between the 2 dragons (soft coded mean that the minions doesn't appear every time one dragon is at 75%/50%/25%. They can appear at anytime for a maximum of time shared between the 2 dragons, lets say 6 times, can be 3 times for each or 5 times for bob and once for bobby, whatever its random). Dragon are smart, when they call for help, the dragon greatly debuff the MT vs the type of damage of the minions, Bob debuff mental and Bobby debuff magic, so at anytime a Guard or a Zerk have to step up to take the minions off the MT because he will die if he try to tank everything. So what do we have here ? An encounter unbeatable by only one tank, next to impossible if you have 2 tanks, really hard with 3, optimal with 4. the whole thing can be done with 4 tanks of the same class, but its not the best choice. And with a 4:24 ratio you respect the 1:6 ratio of the normal group. And to the question, what is gonna make a SK as good as a zerker/guard/pally ? the answer is simple: The player (if the tank are balanced)

Rylight · 07-05-2005, 12:50 AM

hmmmmm, I really like that idea of having an encounter where 2 tanks are not only needed, but can both be used as MT at the same time in the same encounter.

what your sayings is that the AI of the dragons has been kicked up a notch, and you need to use stratedgy to defeat the encounter instead of just " rush it!!! nuke it!! heal ourselfs!!!

I really think that kind of AI would make EQ2 really awesome

the only time I have actually had to do this is once on the EF boat ride. I was with my guild and we had a 2 tanks (me an sk) and a guardian, two healers, and two dps,.... the problem was you got to wind those two contraptions up to keep the boat from freezing, and the devices are on the seperate side of the ships, so I split up with one dps and one healer, while the guardian took the other two and we both fought with mini-groups on the opposite side of the ships, it was really neat. and we all did great

things like that make the game worth playing, and I hope to see more of it

Deadjest · 07-05-2005, 08:04 AM

When I think of SK I think of a Warrior who uses Dark magic to supplment and enhance his fighting along side with using dirty tricks.

Shadow Knights are not like other tanks. What we dont have in Tanking and DPS we should be making up for in crippling our foes.

We should have a decent physical buff and a great magical buff vs Divine, Magial, Poison and Disease. Mental, Fire and Cold just isnt our bag and Magic is pretty universal for the most part.

Our dots should last for 5 ticks with the new combat system coming out for the same power and slow the mob 30% while the Dot lasts. We should have dreadwrath also debuffing Str, Sta and Agi while it lasts. Our Syphion Str should also be Syphioning the above resists and giving them to us for the time period of 5 ticks.

Tanted Caress line is nice but maybe a tad tweeking to it, maybe power drain added.

We should have a power drain attack that does no Damage but drains 60 power to us and 30 power to our allies.

Life Taps need tweeking, not much to say there.

Our Wards need to have a two fold effect. It needs be 50% bigger and it should Ward based off our Mitigation and AFTER that, it needs to only absorb 35% of the incoming Damage till it wears out. That way it softens the blows and actualy lasts long enough to have its proc effect actualy go off which should be a 10% chance since it wont last that long and has a long enough recast.

No reason to have a Ward with a Effect if, its up on cast and down on Hit.

Shadow Knights and Paladins should have a special Stun attack that effects even Raid mobs when using a Shield, we should be the masters of Weapon and Shield fighting.

Our DPS should be above Guardian and Paladin and the Zerker when he is not in Zerk mode but below the Brawlers, but since we are dirty fighters we should get a extra crippling attack that stiffles when we attack from the side or behind when not MTing, that would push our DPS to Brawler table. But balance us when we are MTing but not being available from the front.

What we lack in Tanking and DPS we should make up for in our ability to Cripple our Foes which effects the entire group and our ability to Resist the above Magics better then any other tank while the guardians resiste physical combat better then we do.

This gives us a role that even when NOT MTing, combines with any group on normal and raid encounters but different from other tanks.

Diern · 07-05-2005, 02:05 PM

I agree with most of what has been said on this thread. The only thing I disagree with is the notion that Shadowknights are without honor. What you describe sir, is a rogue in heavy armor. Ever read the dragonlance series? There are a sect of Knights in those books who although evil are competely honorable. Not too mention the Death Knight Lord Soth who always fights his opponents with a twisted code of honor to demonstrate his superiority over them, and too mock the ideals he once held in life as a living man.

The Knight title was given to those of upper standing, a cut above the rabble and a more specialised warrior than a typical fighter or brigand.

As too the actualy changes I am extremely apprehensive. I dont see this working out for us at all, I still stand by the fact the development team needs to look too the original shadowknight model from EQL when making these changes. (Decent lifetaps, supreme agro ect.) Since there new vision of balancing seems too follow EQL basic premise as well. They would do well to realize what they did to the class to finally fix it after many years, and apply the same principles here.

From what ive read ALL fighter classes will be taking a damage NERF. So dont expect our DPS abilities to give us any desirability. Dont expect our tanking skills to either. That leaves us out for both Raids and groups due to the abundance of Guardian players which will be desired by the powergamming mentality of alot of the community. Get used to enjoying the LFG tag.

Sorry too sound negative but I havent seen anything from sony too give me any hope.

Deadjest · 07-06-2005, 01:17 AM

Well it depends on who's version of a Knight you are talking about. There are other books to support a different view. Ever think the Knight part might have been used as a slap in the face to the Good Knights?

The problem is we need a role that stacks with other tanks, not one that constantly fights for the same spot.

The standard DPS vs Tanking is a very limited arena you can play with and does nothing for giving us a role.

And the Nerf was to our DPS not Tanking, our ability to tank is supposed to go up.

Rylight · 07-06-2005, 07:11 AM

Honestly I dont understand where this "fight dirty" thing came from when describing shadowknights??

I value your opinions and will not try to say your version of a shadowknight is wrong, however my view is that we are very honorable, even though we are evil. Im not an assassain, I wont back stab my enemy's when they are not looking, I will face my foe eye-to-eye on a scheduled battle to the death. fighting for my honor and as well as my life. though I dont fight dirty, I will use cunning and the powers of darkness to aid me in my battle. I shall not heal myself, but instead steal the lifeforce from my enemy and relinquish it to myself. and when that does not do the trick I will steal his strength and part of his soul, which shall surely weaken him, and when he still does not bow to my power, I use an ancient art of necromancy and cast his own soul agianst him, aiding me in battle until the soul has defiled its own host. and even then when the chips are down and the battle seems unsure, I shall, as a last ace up my sleeve, raise my hand in the direction of the opponent, and through faith alone, focus the unholy powers of darkness into one concentrated energy, and unleash a wave of unbearable pain with one,, single,, touch..

and knowing my opponent has fallen only because of my determined zeal and faith in my neverending crusade, I shall bless my creator and cause, then call upon my unholy steed to ride me off into the shadows, where I shall await for the next heretic to wonder my path, whether it be a templar, or those meddling paladins.

like I said thats my view of an SK, not dirty, just dark. although in EQ1 I could see where the play dirty thing comes in at considering we were given many stealthy powers.

Deadjest · 07-06-2005, 08:33 AM

I got the idea from our very name.

Shadow Knight. A figure that strikes from the darkness like a rogue but stands toe to toe like a shock trooper attacking with sword and dark magic.

Striking from the darkness is not limited to just rogues. To me it takes more intelligence to be evil and you would use everything to your advantage even if it means a stab in the back. The very concept of true Evil does not allow for Honor.

But I understand to each his own.

But this isnt just about me, myself and I, that was my version and I would love to hear other ideas and HOW they would make them work, not just sprouting off concepts.

So bring it on, concepts and how you would make it work.

Btw good starting post, nothing may ever come of this but its great just talking ideas with fellow SKs without fighting about it.

Rylight · 07-06-2005, 09:29 AM

:smileyvery-happy:

Wildgo · 07-07-2005, 12:22 AM

Sure Sk's could be considered honorable but to me I think that we fight for another reason. To maim, and bring pain. We fight for a dark lord and hate all things good. We could be considered palladians but we took another path, they went to defend the light, we were made to snuff that light out. We deem all others unworthy to our stature, and below us. Let us mock the pallies their ideals and their love of fuzzy bunnies and need to protect the light.

Let's bring all else into our rule, and I for one plan on challanging even the rule of Lucian the High ShadowKnight. :smileymad:

Aion · 07-08-2005, 12:08 AM

Ultimatly, honour and that classic knight image have nothing to do with the crusader classes of this game. What, in roleplaying terms is meant to separate paladins and shadowknights from the other fighter classes is religion. We are on a 'crusade', trying to spread our religion and eliminate the infidels, whether your belief is good or evil. BUT, considering that the gods are gone, or silent or whatever, it is a pretty moot point. I'm pretty dissapointed in the way that these classes have been set up from a role-playing aspect. I only hope that the gods start to reappear in the expansion, because, frankly its pretty dull without them.

Rylight · 07-08-2005, 02:24 AM

Yeah but thats the whole point in determined faith and determined Zeal, believeing in something you cannot see or prove, that is the true definition of faith, and with the gods "gone" that makes it all the more,,,, well.... faithful. anyways many Remenants of Cazic thule still exist like the undead rallasion army, the temple of Cazic thule, and his many creations and bouncers, so who's to tell me my creator is gone?? his influence is everywhere, unlike many of the other Gods. not to say that I crusade in the Name of Cazic thule, but whos to say I dont?

L1m · 07-08-2005, 01:29 PM

I play a monk and the reason i was browsing through this forum is i was thinking about starting an SK. Id just like to say that monks and bruisers can only really tank one heroic mob at a time, we have no group control management. My taunts at level 31 (single mob taunt) does 200 hate and Interrupts, while my group does 100 hate and interrupts. They are not taunts i use them more for the interrupt purpose than i do for the agro. Brawlers are the dps class among fighters and for that we gave up the majortiy of our tanking ability. Granted its possible but very hard. Just thought id say that.

Deadjest · 07-08-2005, 03:40 PM

Errr what did that have to do with starting a SK? Did we miss somthing?

MadTexan · 07-08-2005, 04:37 PM

Deadjester wrote:
Errr what did that have to do with starting a SK? Did we miss somthing?

No, you missed nothing, but that post is no more off-topic than the last 8 threads or so.

megatra · 07-08-2005, 04:54 PM

Rylight wrote:

hmmmmm, I really like that idea of having an encounter where 2 tanks are not only needed, but can both be used as MT at the same time in the same encounter.

what your sayings is that the AI of the dragons has been kicked up a notch, and you need to use stratedgy to defeat the encounter instead of just " rush it!!! nuke it!! heal ourselfs!!!

I really think that kind of AI would make EQ2 really awesome

the only time I have actually had to do this is once on the EF boat ride. I was with my guild and we had a 2 tanks (me an sk) and a guardian, two healers, and two dps,.... the problem was you got to wind those two contraptions up to keep the boat from freezing, and the devices are on the seperate side of the ships, so I split up with one dps and one healer, while the guardian took the other two and we both fought with mini-groups on the opposite side of the ships, it was really neat. and we all did great

things like that make the game worth playing, and I hope to see more of it

There are many raid encounters that call for 2 or more main tanks to all simultaneously tank different mobs. I wont list them all but here is a guy that needs 3:

Rylight · 07-08-2005, 09:15 PM

cool

Dragonslapp · 07-10-2005, 06:33 PM

OMG Megatraum. That sure is a pretty picture but could you please edit it out and link the SS, really screwing up the borders and making it hard to read this thread.

DUNN · 07-12-2005, 04:11 AM

Actually this encountered can be tanked by one guardian or zerker both work . Only time you want to split them is if you have any of the other 4 tanks tanking them. Hopefully this will change with the CU but who knows with SOE. I did try once to tank before and lucky me 1 shoted after 10 secs this is where my guild discovered that a a warrior can tank all of them . Really wasn't my fault i didn't have any hp buffs. Of course i havent tried latley.

Deoxyribo · 07-26-2005, 11:59 AM

you guys know that lucan is a pally?

Hark · 07-26-2005, 04:11 PM

yeah we just have one guard tank em all, works great.

Giral · 07-27-2005, 02:24 AM

1) of course fix are Regain on taunts this seems like it should be a breeze for SOE to fix Getting agro back is near impossible

i was soloing with a lvl 37 assasin I'm a 38 Sk for an hour straight we tried letting me get agro back i would Ho tuant a mob hit it with various attacks pull another HO taunt then he would hit with his master strike and instantly get agro then i would do nothing but Ho tuant taunt and try to use rescue only 2 times did i regain agro and both were when the thing was basicly dead. i think all taunts should be set to a 70 % chance to regain agro so you might fail but you have a greater chance at not . Don't think any Tank should have a 100% agro regain cause thats just unrealistic and boring there would be no thrill in knowing everytime someone lost agro that they will regain it Period.

2) Power consumption is just absurd and its regain time equally so i am so sick of hearing poeple in groups ask me "Are you drinkin" Hell Yeah im drink expensive SGSFSHFSH and if i wasnt the wait would be 2wice as long

3) I dont want to be compared to a Zerker Pally Gaurd. etc ... i didnt want to be any of these characters i want to be an SK i love my abilities Yeah they seriously need to go over them 1 by 1 and tweak them out so they are on par with everyone else in are own SK way

4)i hear talk about a ranged weopon i hope that it isnt a bow and arrow i dont want to play cowboys and indians ; ( i think that if they could be creative and give us a ranged weopon that we can use in conjunction with some of are skills like Draw Strenght that we would have to purchase items similar to the Tainteds we use for are Pets that would Triple the effects of the spell would be awsome and would aslo Add some serious SK flair if they did a great job on the visuals of it make it look insane.

5)pets are just a joke gimme a damned shadowdragon pet or a shadowdemon something that screams EVIL has arrived now go [Removed for Content] yourself

6) the SKcrusader Sub-topic we are Viewed as evil thru the eyes of Queynos not thru are own eyes to us we are crusaders for Freeport and as Such we fight for Freeport with Honor and dignity it might not be Honor thru there eyes and they are what makes us evil. To us we are just ourselves and are lifestyle is fine by our Standerts if Queynos comes and Sieges are castle and brings famine death and destruction they are exualted becuase they and there poeple believe there beliefs are the correct ones to us they are an Evil invading force trying to destroy are lives and poeple not becuase we are evil but becuase we dont believe there beliefs. I am a ShadowKnight i fight head on face to face i dont cowwer away from battle i willingly go face it for i have pledged my sword to Freeport and i will die for that pledge if need be so.

MorgothTheTerrib · 07-27-2005, 07:18 AM

The main problem that I have is that during raids, Shadowknights have absolutely no role in my opinion. Guardians tank probably 90% of all raids (and the Guardian class is by far the most chosen fighter archtype). Beserkers (who tank the other 10% of the time) can either tank or be great for DPS with their duel wield capability. Bruisers and monks are also DPS monsters. Pallys can help out by rezzing and healing. Shadowknights can...do nothing that any other fighter class can't do. Think about it. What situation can happen when the raid says, "Hey, we need a shadowknight." None. It's sad to think about and I've been on over 100 T5 raids and never once was I actually needed like a Pally or zerker. I just hope Sony give us something so that every raid will want at least one SK.

Eatu · 07-27-2005, 07:42 AM

actually mega,

i am all for giving SK a bigger role, but especially that encounter (the 3 drakonas for the deception ring quest in antonica can EASILY be tanked by one tank, even SK).

i remember i was on dps duty (50 sk here) and our mt for one reason or another didnt pull the 3 drakonas close enough and was out of range for a few sec too long and dropped, i ran in (had 2 hander out and didnt have my defensive stance) i was able ot run in, grab aggro, swithc to 1h/shield and enter defensive stance, and tank the whole encounter no prob.

but the fact is, the guardian couldve have done it just as easily (if not for bad timing/positioning) and much more effectively. so ill agree if we are the "backup tanks" at least give us one really important utility ability that can be very useful on a raid. which currently we do NOT have. and dont get me started on Despoiling mist, sure its great (i have it master 1 and its great) but raids can get by w/o it no prob.

Shadowles · 07-27-2005, 10:18 PM

1)I dont want to tank more, i want more DPS as a SK, were the dmg counterparts of a pally, save the tanking for pallies and guardians. Sk and zerker should get a dps boots in all spell/skill lines.

2)Our pets blow, we get a freaken blob and bird , wheres the thought out uniqueness of our class and pets???? Were evil we need our pets to portray that well.

3)Our lifetaps blow, they need to be raised up quite a bit, compared to our pally counterpart they get ubah heals, our lifetaps are useless atm.

4)Sk's should be able to cast a shadowy form to invis us undetectable to mobs, where is it?

5)Epic armor and Epic weapons should be class specific and complimetary to each class..period.

6)We should get more direct high dmg spells not all this AOE junk that doesnt do diddly squat, were not mages, we shouldnt be aoe'in, we need more direct dmg spells.

Giral · 07-29-2005, 04:47 AM

And i dont want to be second to a pally when it comes Tankin time im not secondary to no stinkin pally crusader why dont i shine there shoes wyle im at it im a freakin Knight dammit i have a wizzy that does dps dont want a Crusader thats a dps we arent pally counterparts we're there opposite they are Light and Heal we are Dark and Ward . Want dps go warlock theres dps for you.

Kazander13 · 07-29-2005, 11:28 AM

I tried to honestly avoid this topic whenever I can, hell since EQ1. But if any changes were made I would want it to be on simple one.

Traditionally and rule wise, a ShadowKnight was what? 2/3 Warrior 1/3 necromancer: a HYBRID. I seriously picked this class again thinking it would be just that. I am pleased with what I can do in EQ2 and I hate to say it but I really don't come across about 80% of the issues that are up here most of the time. Everyonce and a while yeah I lose aggro but rarely, and most of the time it's my own fault for not paying attention, not a DPS's class for doing it's job. However if we dive into that realm, just like any other game it's everyones job to control the balance of a fight, not just the tanks. If an assassin/wizard/warlock is doing stupid insane damage and stealing aggro, chances are they are chain nuking/superdamage attacking way too fast and repeatedly. It's THEIR F'ing job to control their aggro or face getting the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] kicked out of them. It was no different in EQ1 when your favorite Ice comet happy wizard started, most of them knew they could only cast iit a couple of times without getting aggro, but theres always one. It isn't a button mashing fest out there and most of the people I group with that take aggro from me are usually out of power by the end of a siumple fight because they want to kill things stupid fast, brag about their damage or C: all of the above. This in turn causes a tank to dish out every offensive manuever and taunt he has to get it back. I think I'm getting a bit off topic but when I see some of the changes being made and requested itt makes me wonder why sometimes (all fighters in general mind you) aren't flat out telling the (insert DPS class of your choice) to control your class or get the F out of my group.

Sometimes I wish they would bring the old death penalties from EQ1 back so people would care when they die and care enough to correct themselves and others mistakes. It's tpo easy now to die in a group and get all your xp back within the course of a few minutes. Gurantee you if people died and started losing levels again they woulnd't group with crappy button mashers or at the very least tell them they are screwing up. Yeah it sucks being told you suck, but I would rather be corrected by someone who knows better than be "that guy".

To my original point of 2/3 warrior 1/3 Necromancer, I'm sorry but the paladin's got just that. They are part priest part warrior, and they do an outstanding job at it. Warrior and Necromancer would suggest we would actually get a pet you don't have to summon every battle, and no, this pet would not be uber but a walking DoT as it should be. Lifetaps (which are being fixed) which the poor necros should have again allready because if you ask me, they got the shaft on those too. Honestly, I think everyone can get the picture.

Before the exageration mongers kick in, I DO NOT expect this to be like EQ1 in every aspect, but if you give a game a sequel, there are a few things that need to be kept in line such as tradition, races, and classes. What the idea was behind a SK for EQ2 was I have no idea, but it surely wasn't traditional. It took several years for our class in the last game to get fixed from severely broken to a truly balanced hate weilding class. I sincerely hope it does not take equally as long this time around. To reiterate before, I am CONTENT with this class and it's base intentions, the tweaking changes being made in the future should be interesting to say the least. But I picked this class out of extension of my old EQ1 character on FV and as far as that goes I'm somewhat dissapointed. I'm certain we will be great again over time, but at the same time it suckjs saying that because everyone here spending their money continuously should not have to wait. I have never really complained or SoE bashed and in general hate the "Im quitting this screwed up class until SoE fixes things and nevermind I'll quit the game etc etc" posts.

Anyway to Shadowknights of the community, keep the helpful posts coming for changes. The devs have made it clear they read these boards and simply do not respond on them frequently and it seems a lot of griping has been taking into consideration with the upcoming changes.

Margen · 07-29-2005, 07:15 PM

Kazander13 wrote:

I tried to honestly avoid this topic whenever I can, hell since EQ1. But if any changes were made I would want it to be on simple one.

Traditionally and rule wise, a ShadowKnight was what? 2/3 Warrior 1/3 necromancer: a HYBRID. I seriously picked this class again thinking it would be just that. I am pleased with what I can do in EQ2 and I hate to say it but I really don't come across about 80% of the issues that are up here most of the time. Everyonce and a while yeah I lose aggro but rarely, and most of the time it's my own fault for not paying attention, not a DPS's class for doing it's job. However if we dive into that realm, just like any other game it's everyones job to control the balance of a fight, not just the tanks. If an assassin/wizard/warlock is doing stupid insane damage and stealing aggro, chances are they are chain nuking/superdamage attacking way too fast and repeatedly. It's THEIR F'ing job to control their aggro or face getting the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] kicked out of them. It was no different in EQ1 when your favorite Ice comet happy wizard started, most of them knew they could only cast iit a couple of times without getting aggro, but theres always one. It isn't a button mashing fest out there and most of the people I group with that take aggro from me are usually out of power by the end of a siumple fight because they want to kill things stupid fast, brag about their damage or C: all of the above. This in turn causes a tank to dish out every offensive manuever and taunt he has to get it back. I think I'm getting a bit off topic but when I see some of the changes being made and requested itt makes me wonder why sometimes (all fighters in general mind you) aren't flat out telling the (insert DPS class of your choice) to control your class or get the F out of my group.

Sometimes I wish they would bring the old death penalties from EQ1 back so people would care when they die and care enough to correct themselves and others mistakes. It's tpo easy now to die in a group and get all your xp back within the course of a few minutes. Gurantee you if people died and started losing levels again they woulnd't group with crappy button mashers or at the very least tell them they are screwing up. Yeah it sucks being told you suck, but I would rather be corrected by someone who knows better than be "that guy".

To my original point of 2/3 warrior 1/3 Necromancer, I'm sorry but the paladin's got just that. They are part priest part warrior, and they do an outstanding job at it. Warrior and Necromancer would suggest we would actually get a pet you don't have to summon every battle, and no, this pet would not be uber but a walking DoT as it should be. Lifetaps (which are being fixed) which the poor necros should have again allready because if you ask me, they got the shaft on those too. Honestly, I think everyone can get the picture.

Before the exageration mongers kick in, I DO NOT expect this to be like EQ1 in every aspect, but if you give a game a sequel, there are a few things that need to be kept in line such as tradition, races, and classes. What the idea was behind a SK for EQ2 was I have no idea, but it surely wasn't traditional. It took several years for our class in the last game to get fixed from severely broken to a truly balanced hate weilding class. I sincerely hope it does not take equally as long this time around. To reiterate before, I am CONTENT with this class and it's base intentions, the tweaking changes being made in the future should be interesting to say the least. But I picked this class out of extension of my old EQ1 character on FV and as far as that goes I'm somewhat dissapointed. I'm certain we will be great again over time, but at the same time it suckjs saying that because everyone here spending their money continuously should not have to wait. I have never really complained or SoE bashed and in general hate the "Im quitting this screwed up class until SoE fixes things and nevermind I'll quit the game etc etc" posts.

Anyway to Shadowknights of the community, keep the helpful posts coming for changes. The devs have made it clear they read these boards and simply do not respond on them frequently and it seems a lot of griping has been taking into consideration with the upcoming changes.

Sorry I would have to disagree, from my days in EQlive, whent he term hybrid was trown out it usally meant "gimped". I admit I played a pally not a Shadow Knight in EQlive, but it used to make me grind my teeth when ever we asked some imporvment in the ability to actually tank, we get welll your a hybrid. Sorry don't want to go through that again.

I personnally like the fact that we are suppose to primaryly tanks vs "hybrid". We should be our own unique class not part Necro/Fighter IMHO, cause when you become part/part of two different classes you seem to become less then the whole.

Guess just different perspective between us.

V/R

Blackoath

Xiziz · 08-04-2005, 06:52 PM

Hi guys im sure im a day late and dollar short but i was Directed to this thread by starting my own to discuss some of the issues already stated. First of all ive played the SK to 48th. Ive raided several times and i am always pushed aside for zerker guardiand and even monk classes and assasin. Everything i will state is not meant to offend just based on things ive seen from fact. Sk currently does a bunch of things poorly.

Sk's are not welcome with Raid leaders simply because the class is wasting space . Our taunts are useless as are our debuffs and buffs. the only reaonably good one is our 50 lvl debuff. As far as DPS we do ok with our pet in solo encounters and single groups but completely fall apart once you mix us in with other Tank classes. I played EQ 1 and SK had the same problem there and i am sad to say i held high hopes the class would be fixed in EQ2 but it seems worse.

We have alot of useless buffs like our mitigation line of giving a small amount For a large hit on our selves. the line is useless as it stands in my opinion it does not even cross group in raids , the Avoidance line is usefull in single groups when the DPS steals aggro from us like they do on a regular basis.

Now about life taps, well enough said i am sure we all agree they suck .

As for pets Why do we get a bird and a blob that disappears after 1 mob. Ridiculous idea and more of a hassle and fanagling then it should be . Id like to see some of our Divine line of casting reduced and more focus on necromantic arts. Lets get a decent pet that does less damage stays active and maybe does some debuffing of its own.

I am sure ill get yelled at ,and again im not here to flame the thread But the class is screwed for the end game currently it needs serious work . we should be a step down from Guardian as mitigation tank and aggro hold not 4th or 5th in line for MT . currently for raids alot of guilds wont even consider us they would rather have DPS or abard type class.

07-04-2005, 09:22 AM	#1
Rylight Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 572	ok first off let me start off by saying that all fighters can and should all be able to tank well. equally well?? really just depends on the situation. and sadly I have no idea how well bruiser/monks can tank, but I am assuming they can tank well. second, sk's can tank, period.. if you cant agree with that dont even read any further. to the point I have been trying to keep up with these latest future updates but seem to be falling behind. what seems major is that defence/tanking ablitity is going to be changed, and that intellegence will now be affecting sk's alot more then it previously was it seems we will now be doing damage output as much as zerkers, while paladins and guardians take the defence piece of the pie. so what do I think of this....... well lets look up the definition of a shadowknight, " inflict fear and pain upon others" therefore I would agree we should be dishing out a good deal of dps, at least compared to the other fighters. so how are we going to do this??? are our buffs going to get better so we dish out more pain close to a zerker?? are we going to get quicker in hitting, or more powerful?? or are we just going to get stronger spells or be more mana effiecent to cast more spells??Currently as a 42 sk, I see we should really have much of our potential in the ability to do aoe's. I personally think that we as sk's are the aoe kings of fighters, and currently have powerful aoe's as it is, but I think they could also be kicked up alittle. also our lifetapping ablilty shoud be kicked up a notch too. CHECK THIS. swarming spirits at my lvl hits for about 150-220 aoe damage and returns about 80hp, which helps a little bit in a solo group fight, but in a herioc group fight only helps so much, so what I am saying is WHY DONT OUR ABLITIES (or at least this one) SCALE WITH OUR FIGHTS?? I think that instead the spell should not only do aoe damage to every oppenent in the encounter but also lifetap every oppenent in the encounter. I mean if you are figthing two mobs, you probably dont need a mega heal, but if you are fighting six and things are getting a little crazy, it would be nice to be able to heal yourself (lets see, 6x80) 480 hp and give the healer a little le-way considering we are not the best defense tank in the game, and also considering at my level mobs are hitting a regular 250-1000hp per hit, so its not overly drastic ( though it would leave us overpowered in solo group encounters) and I say that with respect to paladins cause im not trying to step into there territory SO WHAT IS GONNA MAKE US AS GOOD AS ZERKERS EXACTLY?? OR WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD?? I like how instead of using group taunts and buffs we instead have a good arsenal of aoe's to maintain large encounter aggros and keep the mobs [Removed for Content] off at us. small things like that is what makes an sk an sk, we cant taunt the best, but yet we still find a way around it. or like the idea that are defence isnt the greatest, but our wards can make up for that a little (espically since after this update are wards are supposed to be alot more useful) anyways I want to see little things like that define our class, and even make us better tanks, or dps tanks, or whatever they are planning to do. so somebody inform me,,,,,,,WHAT EXACTLY WILL THE SK OF THE (NEAR) FUTURE BE LIKE??? __________________ Episode 2 part 2 of my MOVIE series, Rylight the chronicles of pain can be found here http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=14051

07-04-2005, 01:15 PM	#2
Wildgo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Now it may be that since I was working since 11 last night and it is now 6 in the morning but I have to agree with the last poster, and I like his ideas. I have preached for a while now that our lifetap line needed to be looked into and what you are saying would be a fair way of doing it. As for the upcomming changes to the fighting classes I really dont know what it is going to hold. And as far as I can tell not to many people know that this new shuffle is going to hold for us good or bad, but I would like to see them drop it already so we can work out the kinks that are sure to happen from it. But yes back to the original point, I think this poster is on the right track to balance, with what is said above we are not stepping on anyone's toes so to say and we are not making it so we gain an unfair advantage, but it would help to define the class of Sk much more. Wildgoon, 46Sk Befallen __________________ Wildgoon 51 ShadowKnight Bloodguard Befallen Server

07-05-2005, 12:50 AM	#4
Rylight Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 572	hmmmmm, I really like that idea of having an encounter where 2 tanks are not only needed, but can both be used as MT at the same time in the same encounter. what your sayings is that the AI of the dragons has been kicked up a notch, and you need to use stratedgy to defeat the encounter instead of just " rush it!!! nuke it!! heal ourselfs!!! I really think that kind of AI would make EQ2 really awesome the only time I have actually had to do this is once on the EF boat ride. I was with my guild and we had a 2 tanks (me an sk) and a guardian, two healers, and two dps,.... the problem was you got to wind those two contraptions up to keep the boat from freezing, and the devices are on the seperate side of the ships, so I split up with one dps and one healer, while the guardian took the other two and we both fought with mini-groups on the opposite side of the ships, it was really neat. and we all did great things like that make the game worth playing, and I hope to see more of it __________________ Episode 2 part 2 of my MOVIE series, Rylight the chronicles of pain can be found here http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=14051

07-06-2005, 07:11 AM	#8
Rylight Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 572	Honestly I dont understand where this "fight dirty" thing came from when describing shadowknights?? I value your opinions and will not try to say your version of a shadowknight is wrong, however my view is that we are very honorable, even though we are evil. Im not an assassain, I wont back stab my enemy's when they are not looking, I will face my foe eye-to-eye on a scheduled battle to the death. fighting for my honor and as well as my life. though I dont fight dirty, I will use cunning and the powers of darkness to aid me in my battle. I shall not heal myself, but instead steal the lifeforce from my enemy and relinquish it to myself. and when that does not do the trick I will steal his strength and part of his soul, which shall surely weaken him, and when he still does not bow to my power, I use an ancient art of necromancy and cast his own soul agianst him, aiding me in battle until the soul has defiled its own host. and even then when the chips are down and the battle seems unsure, I shall, as a last ace up my sleeve, raise my hand in the direction of the opponent, and through faith alone, focus the unholy powers of darkness into one concentrated energy, and unleash a wave of unbearable pain with one,, single,, touch.. and knowing my opponent has fallen only because of my determined zeal and faith in my neverending crusade, I shall bless my creator and cause, then call upon my unholy steed to ride me off into the shadows, where I shall await for the next heretic to wonder my path, whether it be a templar, or those meddling paladins. like I said thats my view of an SK, not dirty, just dark. although in EQ1 I could see where the play dirty thing comes in at considering we were given many stealthy powers. __________________ Episode 2 part 2 of my MOVIE series, Rylight the chronicles of pain can be found here http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=14051

07-06-2005, 09:29 AM	#10
Rylight Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 572	:smileyvery-happy: __________________ Episode 2 part 2 of my MOVIE series, Rylight the chronicles of pain can be found here http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=14051

07-04-2005, 09:57 PM	#3
Yrield General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 267	In normal group Crusaders need 2 thing: 1. better aggro management 2. better power efficiency Those 2 things are part of the combat revamp Raid encounter need to be changed, the whole idea of one guys taking the beat for 23 others dudes is stupid. Starting with the idea where every fighter get one special defense, something like: Berseker: mental Guardian: magic SK: disease Paladin: Divine You work the encounter in a ways where more than 1 tank is needed (and useful) [the whole thing work well for raid instanced zone]: You have 2 dragons, bob and bobby, the 2 dragons are not linked but are part of the same encounter (you need to kill both to get the chest) Bob is an heavy divine caster and bobby is an heavy disease caster (can be a divine/disease proc on their physical attack as well, so the mob don't need to be a pure caster) So the most obvious choice to tank bob is a paladin and a SK to tank bobby. Both dragon need to be beaten at the same time, because if you kill one dragon while the other still have over 50% HP, he can rez the dead dragon (those dragon are uber and have a good health regen if you don't beat the crap out of them, so you have to fight both a the same time, you can't beat one down to 49% switch to the 2nd kill him and switch back to the first, kill him and win) Bob and Bobby can summon minions to help them, those minions are soft coded and shared between the 2 dragons (soft coded mean that the minions doesn't appear every time one dragon is at 75%/50%/25%. They can appear at anytime for a maximum of time shared between the 2 dragons, lets say 6 times, can be 3 times for each or 5 times for bob and once for bobby, whatever its random). Dragon are smart, when they call for help, the dragon greatly debuff the MT vs the type of damage of the minions, Bob debuff mental and Bobby debuff magic, so at anytime a Guard or a Zerk have to step up to take the minions off the MT because he will die if he try to tank everything. So what do we have here ? An encounter unbeatable by only one tank, next to impossible if you have 2 tanks, really hard with 3, optimal with 4. the whole thing can be done with 4 tanks of the same class, but its not the best choice. And with a 4:24 ratio you respect the 1:6 ratio of the normal group. And to the question, what is gonna make a SK as good as a zerker/guard/pally ? the answer is simple: The player (if the tank are balanced)

07-05-2005, 08:04 AM	#5
Deadjest Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 178	When I think of SK I think of a Warrior who uses Dark magic to supplment and enhance his fighting along side with using dirty tricks. Shadow Knights are not like other tanks. What we dont have in Tanking and DPS we should be making up for in crippling our foes. We should have a decent physical buff and a great magical buff vs Divine, Magial, Poison and Disease. Mental, Fire and Cold just isnt our bag and Magic is pretty universal for the most part. Our dots should last for 5 ticks with the new combat system coming out for the same power and slow the mob 30% while the Dot lasts. We should have dreadwrath also debuffing Str, Sta and Agi while it lasts. Our Syphion Str should also be Syphioning the above resists and giving them to us for the time period of 5 ticks. Tanted Caress line is nice but maybe a tad tweeking to it, maybe power drain added. We should have a power drain attack that does no Damage but drains 60 power to us and 30 power to our allies. Life Taps need tweeking, not much to say there. Our Wards need to have a two fold effect. It needs be 50% bigger and it should Ward based off our Mitigation and AFTER that, it needs to only absorb 35% of the incoming Damage till it wears out. That way it softens the blows and actualy lasts long enough to have its proc effect actualy go off which should be a 10% chance since it wont last that long and has a long enough recast. No reason to have a Ward with a Effect if, its up on cast and down on Hit. Shadow Knights and Paladins should have a special Stun attack that effects even Raid mobs when using a Shield, we should be the masters of Weapon and Shield fighting. Our DPS should be above Guardian and Paladin and the Zerker when he is not in Zerk mode but below the Brawlers, but since we are dirty fighters we should get a extra crippling attack that stiffles when we attack from the side or behind when not MTing, that would push our DPS to Brawler table. But balance us when we are MTing but not being available from the front. What we lack in Tanking and DPS we should make up for in our ability to Cripple our Foes which effects the entire group and our ability to Resist the above Magics better then any other tank while the guardians resiste physical combat better then we do. This gives us a role that even when NOT MTing, combines with any group on normal and raid encounters but different from other tanks.

07-05-2005, 02:05 PM	#6
Diern General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 408	I agree with most of what has been said on this thread. The only thing I disagree with is the notion that Shadowknights are without honor. What you describe sir, is a rogue in heavy armor. Ever read the dragonlance series? There are a sect of Knights in those books who although evil are competely honorable. Not too mention the Death Knight Lord Soth who always fights his opponents with a twisted code of honor to demonstrate his superiority over them, and too mock the ideals he once held in life as a living man. The Knight title was given to those of upper standing, a cut above the rabble and a more specialised warrior than a typical fighter or brigand. As too the actualy changes I am extremely apprehensive. I dont see this working out for us at all, I still stand by the fact the development team needs to look too the original shadowknight model from EQL when making these changes. (Decent lifetaps, supreme agro ect.) Since there new vision of balancing seems too follow EQL basic premise as well. They would do well to realize what they did to the class to finally fix it after many years, and apply the same principles here. From what ive read ALL fighter classes will be taking a damage NERF. So dont expect our DPS abilities to give us any desirability. Dont expect our tanking skills to either. That leaves us out for both Raids and groups due to the abundance of Guardian players which will be desired by the powergamming mentality of alot of the community. Get used to enjoying the LFG tag. Sorry too sound negative but I havent seen anything from sony too give me any hope.

07-06-2005, 01:17 AM	#7
Deadjest Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 178	Well it depends on who's version of a Knight you are talking about. There are other books to support a different view. Ever think the Knight part might have been used as a slap in the face to the Good Knights? The problem is we need a role that stacks with other tanks, not one that constantly fights for the same spot. The standard DPS vs Tanking is a very limited arena you can play with and does nothing for giving us a role. And the Nerf was to our DPS not Tanking, our ability to tank is supposed to go up.

07-06-2005, 08:33 AM	#9
Deadjest Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 178	I got the idea from our very name. Shadow Knight. A figure that strikes from the darkness like a rogue but stands toe to toe like a shock trooper attacking with sword and dark magic. Striking from the darkness is not limited to just rogues. To me it takes more intelligence to be evil and you would use everything to your advantage even if it means a stab in the back. The very concept of true Evil does not allow for Honor. But I understand to each his own. But this isnt just about me, myself and I, that was my version and I would love to hear other ideas and HOW they would make them work, not just sprouting off concepts. So bring it on, concepts and how you would make it work. Btw good starting post, nothing may ever come of this but its great just talking ideas with fellow SKs without fighting about it.

07-07-2005, 12:22 AM	#11
Wildgo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Sure Sk's could be considered honorable but to me I think that we fight for another reason. To maim, and bring pain. We fight for a dark lord and hate all things good. We could be considered palladians but we took another path, they went to defend the light, we were made to snuff that light out. We deem all others unworthy to our stature, and below us. Let us mock the pallies their ideals and their love of fuzzy bunnies and need to protect the light. Let's bring all else into our rule, and I for one plan on challanging even the rule of Lucian the High ShadowKnight. :smileymad: __________________ Wildgoon 51 ShadowKnight Bloodguard Befallen Server

07-08-2005, 12:08 AM	#12
Aion Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 209	Ultimatly, honour and that classic knight image have nothing to do with the crusader classes of this game. What, in roleplaying terms is meant to separate paladins and shadowknights from the other fighter classes is religion. We are on a 'crusade', trying to spread our religion and eliminate the infidels, whether your belief is good or evil. BUT, considering that the gods are gone, or silent or whatever, it is a pretty moot point. I'm pretty dissapointed in the way that these classes have been set up from a role-playing aspect. I only hope that the gods start to reappear in the expansion, because, frankly its pretty dull without them. __________________ ---------------------- Don't you get it?! You see the hat? I am Mrs. Nesbit!!

07-08-2005, 02:24 AM	#13
Rylight Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 572	Yeah but thats the whole point in determined faith and determined Zeal, believeing in something you cannot see or prove, that is the true definition of faith, and with the gods "gone" that makes it all the more,,,, well.... faithful. anyways many Remenants of Cazic thule still exist like the undead rallasion army, the temple of Cazic thule, and his many creations and bouncers, so who's to tell me my creator is gone?? his influence is everywhere, unlike many of the other Gods. not to say that I crusade in the Name of Cazic thule, but whos to say I dont? __________________ Episode 2 part 2 of my MOVIE series, Rylight the chronicles of pain can be found here http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=14051

07-08-2005, 01:29 PM	#14
L1m Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: England Posts: 31	I play a monk and the reason i was browsing through this forum is i was thinking about starting an SK. Id just like to say that monks and bruisers can only really tank one heroic mob at a time, we have no group control management. My taunts at level 31 (single mob taunt) does 200 hate and Interrupts, while my group does 100 hate and interrupts. They are not taunts i use them more for the interrupt purpose than i do for the agro. Brawlers are the dps class among fighters and for that we gave up the majortiy of our tanking ability. Granted its possible but very hard. Just thought id say that. __________________ Dark Elf Monk: Unrest

07-08-2005, 03:40 PM	#15
Deadjest Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 178	Errr what did that have to do with starting a SK? Did we miss somthing?

07-08-2005, 04:37 PM	#16
MadTexan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 160	Deadjester wrote: Errr what did that have to do with starting a SK? Did we miss somthing? No, you missed nothing, but that post is no more off-topic than the last 8 threads or so.

07-08-2005, 04:54 PM	#17
megatra Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 306	Rylight wrote: hmmmmm, I really like that idea of having an encounter where 2 tanks are not only needed, but can both be used as MT at the same time in the same encounter. what your sayings is that the AI of the dragons has been kicked up a notch, and you need to use stratedgy to defeat the encounter instead of just " rush it!!! nuke it!! heal ourselfs!!! I really think that kind of AI would make EQ2 really awesome the only time I have actually had to do this is once on the EF boat ride. I was with my guild and we had a 2 tanks (me an sk) and a guardian, two healers, and two dps,.... the problem was you got to wind those two contraptions up to keep the boat from freezing, and the devices are on the seperate side of the ships, so I split up with one dps and one healer, while the guardian took the other two and we both fought with mini-groups on the opposite side of the ships, it was really neat. and we all did great things like that make the game worth playing, and I hope to see more of it There are many raid encounters that call for 2 or more main tanks to all simultaneously tank different mobs. I wont list them all but here is a guy that needs 3: __________________

07-08-2005, 09:15 PM	#18
Rylight Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 572	cool __________________ Episode 2 part 2 of my MOVIE series, Rylight the chronicles of pain can be found here http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=14051

07-10-2005, 06:33 PM	#19
Dragonslapp Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	OMG Megatraum. That sure is a pretty picture but could you please edit it out and link the SS, really screwing up the borders and making it hard to read this thread. __________________ "Mmmmm, Taco Flavored Kisses.....Chocolate Tacos mostly...mostly...

07-12-2005, 04:11 AM	#20
DUNN Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 253	Actually this encountered can be tanked by one guardian or zerker both work . Only time you want to split them is if you have any of the other 4 tanks tanking them. Hopefully this will change with the CU but who knows with SOE. I did try once to tank before and lucky me 1 shoted after 10 secs this is where my guild discovered that a a warrior can tank all of them . Really wasn't my fault i didn't have any hp buffs. Of course i havent tried latley. __________________ Dunnott 70 SK Tumaedre 70th Song I wonder how much time i have with this name

07-26-2005, 11:59 AM	#21
Deoxyribo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2	you guys know that lucan is a pally?

07-26-2005, 04:11 PM	#22
Hark Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 44	yeah we just have one guard tank em all, works great. __________________ Unrest

07-27-2005, 02:24 AM	#23
Giral General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 894	1) of course fix are Regain on taunts this seems like it should be a breeze for SOE to fix Getting agro back is near impossible i was soloing with a lvl 37 assasin I'm a 38 Sk for an hour straight we tried letting me get agro back i would Ho tuant a mob hit it with various attacks pull another HO taunt then he would hit with his master strike and instantly get agro then i would do nothing but Ho tuant taunt and try to use rescue only 2 times did i regain agro and both were when the thing was basicly dead. i think all taunts should be set to a 70 % chance to regain agro so you might fail but you have a greater chance at not . Don't think any Tank should have a 100% agro regain cause thats just unrealistic and boring there would be no thrill in knowing everytime someone lost agro that they will regain it Period. 2) Power consumption is just absurd and its regain time equally so i am so sick of hearing poeple in groups ask me "Are you drinkin" Hell Yeah im drink expensive SGSFSHFSH and if i wasnt the wait would be 2wice as long 3) I dont want to be compared to a Zerker Pally Gaurd. etc ... i didnt want to be any of these characters i want to be an SK i love my abilities Yeah they seriously need to go over them 1 by 1 and tweak them out so they are on par with everyone else in are own SK way 4)i hear talk about a ranged weopon i hope that it isnt a bow and arrow i dont want to play cowboys and indians ; ( i think that if they could be creative and give us a ranged weopon that we can use in conjunction with some of are skills like Draw Strenght that we would have to purchase items similar to the Tainteds we use for are Pets that would Triple the effects of the spell would be awsome and would aslo Add some serious SK flair if they did a great job on the visuals of it make it look insane. 5)pets are just a joke gimme a damned shadowdragon pet or a shadowdemon something that screams EVIL has arrived now go [Removed for Content] yourself 6) the SKcrusader Sub-topic we are Viewed as evil thru the eyes of Queynos not thru are own eyes to us we are crusaders for Freeport and as Such we fight for Freeport with Honor and dignity it might not be Honor thru there eyes and they are what makes us evil. To us we are just ourselves and are lifestyle is fine by our Standerts if Queynos comes and Sieges are castle and brings famine death and destruction they are exualted becuase they and there poeple believe there beliefs are the correct ones to us they are an Evil invading force trying to destroy are lives and poeple not becuase we are evil but becuase we dont believe there beliefs. I am a ShadowKnight i fight head on face to face i dont cowwer away from battle i willingly go face it for i have pledged my sword to Freeport and i will die for that pledge if need be so. __________________ who's more of a Fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool. . . Account Terminated as of 12-27-08, RMT=Evil

07-27-2005, 07:18 AM	#24
MorgothTheTerrib Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 73	The main problem that I have is that during raids, Shadowknights have absolutely no role in my opinion. Guardians tank probably 90% of all raids (and the Guardian class is by far the most chosen fighter archtype). Beserkers (who tank the other 10% of the time) can either tank or be great for DPS with their duel wield capability. Bruisers and monks are also DPS monsters. Pallys can help out by rezzing and healing. Shadowknights can...do nothing that any other fighter class can't do. Think about it. What situation can happen when the raid says, "Hey, we need a shadowknight." None. It's sad to think about and I've been on over 100 T5 raids and never once was I actually needed like a Pally or zerker. I just hope Sony give us something so that every raid will want at least one SK. __________________

07-27-2005, 07:42 AM	#25
Eatu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	actually mega, i am all for giving SK a bigger role, but especially that encounter (the 3 drakonas for the deception ring quest in antonica can EASILY be tanked by one tank, even SK). i remember i was on dps duty (50 sk here) and our mt for one reason or another didnt pull the 3 drakonas close enough and was out of range for a few sec too long and dropped, i ran in (had 2 hander out and didnt have my defensive stance) i was able ot run in, grab aggro, swithc to 1h/shield and enter defensive stance, and tank the whole encounter no prob. but the fact is, the guardian couldve have done it just as easily (if not for bad timing/positioning) and much more effectively. so ill agree if we are the "backup tanks" at least give us one really important utility ability that can be very useful on a raid. which currently we do NOT have. and dont get me started on Despoiling mist, sure its great (i have it master 1 and its great) but raids can get by w/o it no prob.

07-27-2005, 10:18 PM	#26
Shadowles Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	1)I dont want to tank more, i want more DPS as a SK, were the dmg counterparts of a pally, save the tanking for pallies and guardians. Sk and zerker should get a dps boots in all spell/skill lines. 2)Our pets blow, we get a freaken blob and bird , wheres the thought out uniqueness of our class and pets???? Were evil we need our pets to portray that well. 3)Our lifetaps blow, they need to be raised up quite a bit, compared to our pally counterpart they get ubah heals, our lifetaps are useless atm. 4)Sk's should be able to cast a shadowy form to invis us undetectable to mobs, where is it? 5)Epic armor and Epic weapons should be class specific and complimetary to each class..period. 6)We should get more direct high dmg spells not all this AOE junk that doesnt do diddly squat, were not mages, we shouldnt be aoe'in, we need more direct dmg spells.

07-29-2005, 04:47 AM	#27
Giral General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 894	And i dont want to be second to a pally when it comes Tankin time im not secondary to no stinkin pally crusader why dont i shine there shoes wyle im at it im a freakin Knight dammit i have a wizzy that does dps dont want a Crusader thats a dps we arent pally counterparts we're there opposite they are Light and Heal we are Dark and Ward . Want dps go warlock theres dps for you. __________________ who's more of a Fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool. . . Account Terminated as of 12-27-08, RMT=Evil

07-29-2005, 11:28 AM	#28
Kazander13 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 86	I tried to honestly avoid this topic whenever I can, hell since EQ1. But if any changes were made I would want it to be on simple one. Traditionally and rule wise, a ShadowKnight was what? 2/3 Warrior 1/3 necromancer: a HYBRID. I seriously picked this class again thinking it would be just that. I am pleased with what I can do in EQ2 and I hate to say it but I really don't come across about 80% of the issues that are up here most of the time. Everyonce and a while yeah I lose aggro but rarely, and most of the time it's my own fault for not paying attention, not a DPS's class for doing it's job. However if we dive into that realm, just like any other game it's everyones job to control the balance of a fight, not just the tanks. If an assassin/wizard/warlock is doing stupid insane damage and stealing aggro, chances are they are chain nuking/superdamage attacking way too fast and repeatedly. It's THEIR F'ing job to control their aggro or face getting the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] kicked out of them. It was no different in EQ1 when your favorite Ice comet happy wizard started, most of them knew they could only cast iit a couple of times without getting aggro, but theres always one. It isn't a button mashing fest out there and most of the people I group with that take aggro from me are usually out of power by the end of a siumple fight because they want to kill things stupid fast, brag about their damage or C: all of the above. This in turn causes a tank to dish out every offensive manuever and taunt he has to get it back. I think I'm getting a bit off topic but when I see some of the changes being made and requested itt makes me wonder why sometimes (all fighters in general mind you) aren't flat out telling the (insert DPS class of your choice) to control your class or get the F out of my group. Sometimes I wish they would bring the old death penalties from EQ1 back so people would care when they die and care enough to correct themselves and others mistakes. It's tpo easy now to die in a group and get all your xp back within the course of a few minutes. Gurantee you if people died and started losing levels again they woulnd't group with crappy button mashers or at the very least tell them they are screwing up. Yeah it sucks being told you suck, but I would rather be corrected by someone who knows better than be "that guy". To my original point of 2/3 warrior 1/3 Necromancer, I'm sorry but the paladin's got just that. They are part priest part warrior, and they do an outstanding job at it. Warrior and Necromancer would suggest we would actually get a pet you don't have to summon every battle, and no, this pet would not be uber but a walking DoT as it should be. Lifetaps (which are being fixed) which the poor necros should have again allready because if you ask me, they got the shaft on those too. Honestly, I think everyone can get the picture. Before the exageration mongers kick in, I DO NOT expect this to be like EQ1 in every aspect, but if you give a game a sequel, there are a few things that need to be kept in line such as tradition, races, and classes. What the idea was behind a SK for EQ2 was I have no idea, but it surely wasn't traditional. It took several years for our class in the last game to get fixed from severely broken to a truly balanced hate weilding class. I sincerely hope it does not take equally as long this time around. To reiterate before, I am CONTENT with this class and it's base intentions, the tweaking changes being made in the future should be interesting to say the least. But I picked this class out of extension of my old EQ1 character on FV and as far as that goes I'm somewhat dissapointed. I'm certain we will be great again over time, but at the same time it suckjs saying that because everyone here spending their money continuously should not have to wait. I have never really complained or SoE bashed and in general hate the "Im quitting this screwed up class until SoE fixes things and nevermind I'll quit the game etc etc" posts. Anyway to Shadowknights of the community, keep the helpful posts coming for changes. The devs have made it clear they read these boards and simply do not respond on them frequently and it seems a lot of griping has been taking into consideration with the upcoming changes. __________________ Kazander Atredes Antonia Bayle

07-29-2005, 07:15 PM	#29
Margen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 648	Kazander13 wrote: I tried to honestly avoid this topic whenever I can, hell since EQ1. But if any changes were made I would want it to be on simple one. Traditionally and rule wise, a ShadowKnight was what? 2/3 Warrior 1/3 necromancer: a HYBRID. I seriously picked this class again thinking it would be just that. I am pleased with what I can do in EQ2 and I hate to say it but I really don't come across about 80% of the issues that are up here most of the time. Everyonce and a while yeah I lose aggro but rarely, and most of the time it's my own fault for not paying attention, not a DPS's class for doing it's job. However if we dive into that realm, just like any other game it's everyones job to control the balance of a fight, not just the tanks. If an assassin/wizard/warlock is doing stupid insane damage and stealing aggro, chances are they are chain nuking/superdamage attacking way too fast and repeatedly. It's THEIR F'ing job to control their aggro or face getting the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] kicked out of them. It was no different in EQ1 when your favorite Ice comet happy wizard started, most of them knew they could only cast iit a couple of times without getting aggro, but theres always one. It isn't a button mashing fest out there and most of the people I group with that take aggro from me are usually out of power by the end of a siumple fight because they want to kill things stupid fast, brag about their damage or C: all of the above. This in turn causes a tank to dish out every offensive manuever and taunt he has to get it back. I think I'm getting a bit off topic but when I see some of the changes being made and requested itt makes me wonder why sometimes (all fighters in general mind you) aren't flat out telling the (insert DPS class of your choice) to control your class or get the F out of my group. Sometimes I wish they would bring the old death penalties from EQ1 back so people would care when they die and care enough to correct themselves and others mistakes. It's tpo easy now to die in a group and get all your xp back within the course of a few minutes. Gurantee you if people died and started losing levels again they woulnd't group with crappy button mashers or at the very least tell them they are screwing up. Yeah it sucks being told you suck, but I would rather be corrected by someone who knows better than be "that guy". To my original point of 2/3 warrior 1/3 Necromancer, I'm sorry but the paladin's got just that. They are part priest part warrior, and they do an outstanding job at it. Warrior and Necromancer would suggest we would actually get a pet you don't have to summon every battle, and no, this pet would not be uber but a walking DoT as it should be. Lifetaps (which are being fixed) which the poor necros should have again allready because if you ask me, they got the shaft on those too. Honestly, I think everyone can get the picture. Before the exageration mongers kick in, I DO NOT expect this to be like EQ1 in every aspect, but if you give a game a sequel, there are a few things that need to be kept in line such as tradition, races, and classes. What the idea was behind a SK for EQ2 was I have no idea, but it surely wasn't traditional. It took several years for our class in the last game to get fixed from severely broken to a truly balanced hate weilding class. I sincerely hope it does not take equally as long this time around. To reiterate before, I am CONTENT with this class and it's base intentions, the tweaking changes being made in the future should be interesting to say the least. But I picked this class out of extension of my old EQ1 character on FV and as far as that goes I'm somewhat dissapointed. I'm certain we will be great again over time, but at the same time it suckjs saying that because everyone here spending their money continuously should not have to wait. I have never really complained or SoE bashed and in general hate the "Im quitting this screwed up class until SoE fixes things and nevermind I'll quit the game etc etc" posts. Anyway to Shadowknights of the community, keep the helpful posts coming for changes. The devs have made it clear they read these boards and simply do not respond on them frequently and it seems a lot of griping has been taking into consideration with the upcoming changes. Sorry I would have to disagree, from my days in EQlive, whent he term hybrid was trown out it usally meant "gimped". I admit I played a pally not a Shadow Knight in EQlive, but it used to make me grind my teeth when ever we asked some imporvment in the ability to actually tank, we get welll your a hybrid. Sorry don't want to go through that again. I personnally like the fact that we are suppose to primaryly tanks vs "hybrid". We should be our own unique class not part Necro/Fighter IMHO, cause when you become part/part of two different classes you seem to become less then the whole. Guess just different perspective between us. V/R Blackoath __________________ Blackoath Uglyone 80 Shadow Knight of Chaos Phang 80 Swashbuckler of Chaos You EVER going to fix SKs Sony?

08-04-2005, 06:52 PM	#30
Xiziz Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 75	Hi guys im sure im a day late and dollar short but i was Directed to this thread by starting my own to discuss some of the issues already stated. First of all ive played the SK to 48th. Ive raided several times and i am always pushed aside for zerker guardiand and even monk classes and assasin. Everything i will state is not meant to offend just based on things ive seen from fact. Sk currently does a bunch of things poorly. Sk's are not welcome with Raid leaders simply because the class is wasting space . Our taunts are useless as are our debuffs and buffs. the only reaonably good one is our 50 lvl debuff. As far as DPS we do ok with our pet in solo encounters and single groups but completely fall apart once you mix us in with other Tank classes. I played EQ 1 and SK had the same problem there and i am sad to say i held high hopes the class would be fixed in EQ2 but it seems worse. We have alot of useless buffs like our mitigation line of giving a small amount For a large hit on our selves. the line is useless as it stands in my opinion it does not even cross group in raids , the Avoidance line is usefull in single groups when the DPS steals aggro from us like they do on a regular basis. Now about life taps, well enough said i am sure we all agree they suck . As for pets Why do we get a bird and a blob that disappears after 1 mob. Ridiculous idea and more of a hassle and fanagling then it should be . Id like to see some of our Divine line of casting reduced and more focus on necromantic arts. Lets get a decent pet that does less damage stays active and maybe does some debuffing of its own. I am sure ill get yelled at ,and again im not here to flame the thread But the class is screwed for the end game currently it needs serious work . we should be a step down from Guardian as mitigation tank and aggro hold not 4th or 5th in line for MT . currently for raids alot of guilds wont even consider us they would rather have DPS or abard type class.