Just a random musing, but whats up with the AP line?

Cusashorn · 04-10-2006, 07:51 PM

First rank of the strength line: Raise Strength by 4

First rank of the Agility line: Raise Agility by 5

First rank of the Stamina line: Raise Stamina by 6

First rank of the Wisdom Line: Raise Wisdom by 7

First rank of the Intellegence Line: Raise intellegence by 8

Whats up with that? are they trying to tell us something there?

NerissaRavenHeart · 04-10-2006, 07:55 PM

Erm... doesn't look like they are trying to tell us anything at all. What are you seeing. I see the increase in the numerical amounts between stats, but I believe as well for the Mage types that their numbering is backwards to that.

First rank of the strength line: Raise Strength by 8

First rank of the Agility line: Raise Agility by 7

First rank of the Stamina line: Raise Stamina by 6

First rank of the Wisdom Line: Raise Wisdom by 5

First rank of the Intellegence Line: Raise intellegence by 4

Masuimi

Cusashorn wrote:
First rank of the strength line: Raise Strength by 4

First rank of the Agility line: Raise Agility by 5

First rank of the Stamina line: Raise Stamina by 6

First rank of the Wisdom Line: Raise Wisdom by 7

First rank of the Intellegence Line: Raise intellegence by 8

Whats up with that? are they trying to tell us something there?

Wargod1968 · 04-10-2006, 10:19 PM

You get more of an increase in the Stat which has the least benefit to your class. It's for balance.

NerissaRavenHeart · 04-10-2006, 11:44 PM

thats what I was thinking when I replied to the post. It's a balancing thing.Masuimi

Cusashorn · 04-11-2006, 08:37 AM

Wargod1968 wrote:
You get more of an increase in the Stat which has the least benefit to your class. It's for balance.

Then shouldn't it be Agility 4, Stamina 5, Strength 6 instead for us?

I'm not complaining. I'm not gonna even bother with the useless strength line anyway.

diamondma · 04-11-2006, 03:57 PM

Cusashorn wrote:
Wargod1968 wrote:
You get more of an increase in the Stat which has the least benefit to your class. It's for balance.
Then shouldn't it be Agility 4, Stamina 5, Strength 6 instead for us?

I'm not complaining. I'm not gonna even bother with the useless strength line anyway.

the str line is by no means useless. it is a viable option for dps and tanking.

Tamo · 04-11-2006, 04:33 PM

Yah strength line isn't totally useless. I, however, am not touching it. It's just not my plan.

i3ry · 04-11-2006, 06:05 PM

Heh, if you think the STR line is useless you need to have your head examined. You pump out some mega DPS and hate with it... it makes tanking so much easier. Chi kinda sucks though for us imo. Maybe a Bruiser would like it but since we cap haste I don't see much use for that particular ability, especially for 8 points.

NerissaRavenHeart · 04-11-2006, 06:40 PM

Notice he said "option" which would mean optional. =PSagarakun WooHoo

Wargod1968 · 04-11-2006, 08:40 PM

Cusashorn wrote:

Wargod1968 wrote:
You get more of an increase in the Stat which has the least benefit to your class. It's for balance.

Then shouldn't it be Agility 4, Stamina 5, Strength 6 instead for us?

I'm not complaining. I'm not gonna even bother with the useless strength line anyway.

Well, think of it this way. STR is the main attribute for all fighters, including monks. It adds to your damage (and through dps, your ability to hold aggro), it adds to your power pool. It does more for you, ounce for ounce, than any other attribute. Hence, they compensated by giving the other attributes more points per AA, to at least compensate for the fact they are not quite as useful as STR.

That's a very general statement, but you can see that for every class, the # of points gained for each AA varies based on what the order of "Generally Useful" stats are for them. Most useful = least gain. Least useful = most gain. As compensation.

Like you I won't go for the whole STR line, but if I have left over points, I may dip into the +STR part and gain a few points of STR.

Wiou · 04-11-2006, 09:03 PM

Aye. It appears stupid, but it's to balance.

Gillys · 04-12-2006, 02:57 AM

A couple things that you might like about STR line:

You don't have to worry about upgrading a weapon. Save your money for Master's.
You don't have to worry about repair.

There is also always the looks thing. If that turns you on!

diamondma · 04-12-2006, 03:09 AM

+8 relentless +8 riposte line is actually not too shabby then put the rest in sta line. its a very good tanking template, because riposte increases ur avoidance, dps, agro, and deflection increases avoidance. just another idea to play around with. add relentless and the hate proc and we can throw out some major single target agro, although im not sure if relentless works on riposte's as well ill have to test that sometime.

Cusashorn · 04-12-2006, 09:26 AM

Gillysan wrote:
A couple things that you might like about STR line:

You don't have to worry about upgrading a weapon. Save your money for Master's.

You don't have to worry about repair.

There is also always the looks thing. If that turns you on!

I'm sorry, but after Moorgard himself posted here a few months ago that Barefisted Fighting is not a very smart weapon choice, I was sold that it never will be untill I see a statement in the patch message otherwise. He said that barefisted fighting is a 2 hand weapon, and it's only viable use is when you absolutely have no other option. He said that even the most basic fighting weapon from a merchant in the city is more powerful than bare fisted fighting.

That's why I don't think the Strength line is anything good.

i3ry · 04-12-2006, 10:25 AM

Yes, those things are all true if you don't put points into the Str line. Amazingly enough, when you are hitting two times on 96% of your autoattack hits and you get an extra +20% dps mod, your barehanded melee dps with these AAs will significantly improve. I know it sounds insane but nearly doubling your dps is a good thing.

diamondma · 04-12-2006, 03:56 PM

Cusashorn wrote:
I'm sorry, but after Moorgard himself posted here a few months ago that Barefisted Fighting is not a very smart weapon choice, I was sold that it never will be untill I see a statement in the patch message otherwise. He said that barefisted fighting is a 2 hand weapon, and it's only viable use is when you absolutely have no other option. He said that even the most basic fighting weapon from a merchant in the city is more powerful than bare fisted fighting.
That's why I don't think the Strength line is anything good.

that was said a while back and before the aa line was develop'd. before u knock it respec for a day and test it out. thats what i did and im not goin back to any line now. im throughly sold on the str line for every template.

NerissaRavenHeart · 04-12-2006, 06:06 PM

So your straight STR in your AA's Sagara? How's that been treating ya, it seems you like it pretty well. So you have Str 8-8-8-8-8 and the rest in Sta? and your stamina will end up looking something like STA 5-5 or something another like that? And your fighting bare handed?Masuimi

zabor · 04-12-2006, 06:17 PM

STr may be a good option for cheapo monks, but once you get your hands on some good weapons (57 DR dualwields) you are doing more dps with other AA lines. Also, fighting unarmed is bad because you can't change your damage type. Let's see your dps when you are fighting a crushing resistent mob.

Message Edited by zaboron on 04-12-2006 04:19 PM

Cusashorn · 04-12-2006, 08:42 PM

diamondmage wrote:

Cusashorn wrote:

I'm sorry, but after Moorgard himself posted here a few months ago that Barefisted Fighting is not a very smart weapon choice, I was sold that it never will be untill I see a statement in the patch message otherwise. He said that barefisted fighting is a 2 hand weapon, and it's only viable use is when you absolutely have no other option. He said that even the most basic fighting weapon from a merchant in the city is more powerful than bare fisted fighting.
That's why I don't think the Strength line is anything good.

that was said a while back and before the aa line was develop'd. before u knock it respec for a day and test it out. thats what i did and im not goin back to any line now. im throughly sold on the str line for every template.

Wise Advice. I guess I should give it a try before I completely dismiss it.

Gaige · 04-12-2006, 10:01 PM

Cusashorn wrote:

I'm sorry, but after Moorgard himself posted here a few months ago that Barefisted Fighting is not a very smart weapon choice, I was sold that it never will be untill I see a statement in the patch message otherwise. He said that barefisted fighting is a 2 hand weapon, and it's only viable use is when you absolutely have no other option. He said that even the most basic fighting weapon from a merchant in the city is more powerful than bare fisted fighting.

That's why I don't think the Strength line is anything good.

Must've missed the posts and patch notes after that where they changed unarmed to a magic weapon with a 2.5 2h delay. Must've missed all the monks out there using a 448str build and parsing crazy damage, eh?

Unarmed is a viable and very good option unless your weapons are 57dr or higher.

zaboron wrote:
STr may be a good option for cheapo monks, but once you get your hands on some good weapons (57 DR dualwields)

Ryza you have a lot of 57+ dr weapons for sale on your broker eh? Funny since every single one of them is raid dropped, most no-trade.

I doubt being cheap has anythign to do with it.

Message Edited by Gaige on 04-12-2006 11:03 AM

diamondma · 04-13-2006, 02:49 AM

zaboron wrote:STr may be a good option for cheapo monks, but once you get your hands on some good weapons (57 DR dualwields) you are doing more dps with other AA lines. Also, fighting unarmed is bad because you can't change your damage type. Let's see your dps when you are fighting a crushing resistent mob.
Message Edited by zaboron on 04-12-2006 04:19 PM

wow i dont know if i should take that as an insult or not. first off im not a cheapo monk, up untill t7 i had some of the best items in t6, i just saw that there is a definite plus side to the str line if u remain blind to it then plz stay that way but dont give me or other people [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for it. second off ive yet to hear anyone parsing that much higher with t7 fabled weaps, not to mention u will pull agro if u go above ur tanks ability to gain hate, so u can walk around sayin that ur stick is bigger but whats the point if u cant use it. third off with debuffs and the changes to mobs physical mit resist's to physical dmg are pretty much nil now. there is very very little change in my dps wether the mob is crush resist or not. fourth when u use the str line from what ive seen ur proc rate almost doubles, with brawlers that means more hate for tanking, more dps from procs, and less power used due to not having to taunt as much. sounds like a no brainer to me. add the riposte line to that and u open up a whole new can of worms, not to mention the 520 crushing debuff. so once again dont knock it till u try it. and no nerissa im not full str line i have 27 aa right now i think im currently 8/8/8/2 str which ill be respecing to 4/4/8str 4/4/8sta 4/4/8int when i get the points i just dont want to sit on the points or put them into semi useless stat buffs or slot two skills. i'd rather keep them in str line where i can make use of them untill i have enough to complete another 4/4/8 line. enough of my rambling carry on.

zabor · 04-13-2006, 09:00 PM

there are mobs who are crushing immune. So no damage with unarmed. I dont know if it was an oversight by soe, because they said there will be no more immunities, but there definately still are some.

diamondma · 04-14-2006, 02:48 AM

havent seen one yet what mobs are u talking about?

04-10-2006, 07:55 PM	#2
NerissaRavenHeart Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: http://www.o-re-sa-ma.com/ Posts: 271	Erm... doesn't look like they are trying to tell us anything at all. What are you seeing. I see the increase in the numerical amounts between stats, but I believe as well for the Mage types that their numbering is backwards to that. First rank of the strength line: Raise Strength by 8 First rank of the Agility line: Raise Agility by 7 First rank of the Stamina line: Raise Stamina by 6 First rank of the Wisdom Line: Raise Wisdom by 5 First rank of the Intellegence Line: Raise intellegence by 4 Masuimi Cusashorn wrote: First rank of the strength line: Raise Strength by 4 First rank of the Agility line: Raise Agility by 5 First rank of the Stamina line: Raise Stamina by 6 First rank of the Wisdom Line: Raise Wisdom by 7 First rank of the Intellegence Line: Raise intellegence by 8 Whats up with that? are they trying to tell us something there?

04-11-2006, 08:37 AM	#5
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Wargod1968 wrote: You get more of an increase in the Stat which has the least benefit to your class. It's for balance. Then shouldn't it be Agility 4, Stamina 5, Strength 6 instead for us? I'm not complaining. I'm not gonna even bother with the useless strength line anyway.

04-11-2006, 03:57 PM	#6
diamondma Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 261	Cusashorn wrote: Wargod1968 wrote: You get more of an increase in the Stat which has the least benefit to your class. It's for balance. Then shouldn't it be Agility 4, Stamina 5, Strength 6 instead for us? I'm not complaining. I'm not gonna even bother with the useless strength line anyway. the str line is by no means useless. it is a viable option for dps and tanking.

04-11-2006, 06:05 PM	#8
i3ry General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 205	Heh, if you think the STR line is useless you need to have your head examined. You pump out some mega DPS and hate with it... it makes tanking so much easier. Chi kinda sucks though for us imo. Maybe a Bruiser would like it but since we cap haste I don't see much use for that particular ability, especially for 8 points. __________________ Sir Lioz Wu the Jade Tiger, 70th Monk of Permafrost Wall of Souls

04-11-2006, 08:40 PM	#10
Wargod1968 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blood Haze Inn Posts: 457	Cusashorn wrote: Wargod1968 wrote: You get more of an increase in the Stat which has the least benefit to your class. It's for balance. Then shouldn't it be Agility 4, Stamina 5, Strength 6 instead for us? I'm not complaining. I'm not gonna even bother with the useless strength line anyway. Well, think of it this way. STR is the main attribute for all fighters, including monks. It adds to your damage (and through dps, your ability to hold aggro), it adds to your power pool. It does more for you, ounce for ounce, than any other attribute. Hence, they compensated by giving the other attributes more points per AA, to at least compensate for the fact they are not quite as useful as STR. That's a very general statement, but you can see that for every class, the # of points gained for each AA varies based on what the order of "Generally Useful" stats are for them. Most useful = least gain. Least useful = most gain. As compensation. Like you I won't go for the whole STR line, but if I have left over points, I may dip into the +STR part and gain a few points of STR.

04-10-2006, 07:51 PM	#1
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	First rank of the strength line: Raise Strength by 4 First rank of the Agility line: Raise Agility by 5 First rank of the Stamina line: Raise Stamina by 6 First rank of the Wisdom Line: Raise Wisdom by 7 First rank of the Intellegence Line: Raise intellegence by 8 Whats up with that? are they trying to tell us something there?

04-10-2006, 10:19 PM	#3
Wargod1968 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blood Haze Inn Posts: 457	You get more of an increase in the Stat which has the least benefit to your class. It's for balance.

04-10-2006, 11:44 PM	#4
NerissaRavenHeart Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: http://www.o-re-sa-ma.com/ Posts: 271	thats what I was thinking when I replied to the post. It's a balancing thing.Masuimi

04-11-2006, 04:33 PM	#7
Tamo Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 160	Yah strength line isn't totally useless. I, however, am not touching it. It's just not my plan.

04-11-2006, 06:40 PM	#9
NerissaRavenHeart Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: http://www.o-re-sa-ma.com/ Posts: 271	Notice he said "option" which would mean optional. =PSagarakun WooHoo

04-11-2006, 09:03 PM	#11
Wiou Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 672	Aye. It appears stupid, but it's to balance.

04-12-2006, 02:57 AM	#12
Gillys Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7	A couple things that you might like about STR line: You don't have to worry about upgrading a weapon. Save your money for Master's. You don't have to worry about repair. There is also always the looks thing. If that turns you on! __________________

04-12-2006, 03:09 AM	#13
diamondma Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 261	+8 relentless +8 riposte line is actually not too shabby then put the rest in sta line. its a very good tanking template, because riposte increases ur avoidance, dps, agro, and deflection increases avoidance. just another idea to play around with. add relentless and the hate proc and we can throw out some major single target agro, although im not sure if relentless works on riposte's as well ill have to test that sometime.

04-12-2006, 09:26 AM	#14
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Gillysan wrote: A couple things that you might like about STR line: You don't have to worry about upgrading a weapon. Save your money for Master's. You don't have to worry about repair. There is also always the looks thing. If that turns you on! I'm sorry, but after Moorgard himself posted here a few months ago that Barefisted Fighting is not a very smart weapon choice, I was sold that it never will be untill I see a statement in the patch message otherwise. He said that barefisted fighting is a 2 hand weapon, and it's only viable use is when you absolutely have no other option. He said that even the most basic fighting weapon from a merchant in the city is more powerful than bare fisted fighting. That's why I don't think the Strength line is anything good.

04-12-2006, 10:25 AM	#15
i3ry General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 205	Yes, those things are all true if you don't put points into the Str line. Amazingly enough, when you are hitting two times on 96% of your autoattack hits and you get an extra +20% dps mod, your barehanded melee dps with these AAs will significantly improve. I know it sounds insane but nearly doubling your dps is a good thing. __________________ Sir Lioz Wu the Jade Tiger, 70th Monk of Permafrost Wall of Souls

04-12-2006, 03:56 PM	#16
diamondma Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 261	Cusashorn wrote: I'm sorry, but after Moorgard himself posted here a few months ago that Barefisted Fighting is not a very smart weapon choice, I was sold that it never will be untill I see a statement in the patch message otherwise. He said that barefisted fighting is a 2 hand weapon, and it's only viable use is when you absolutely have no other option. He said that even the most basic fighting weapon from a merchant in the city is more powerful than bare fisted fighting. That's why I don't think the Strength line is anything good. that was said a while back and before the aa line was develop'd. before u knock it respec for a day and test it out. thats what i did and im not goin back to any line now. im throughly sold on the str line for every template.

04-12-2006, 06:06 PM	#17
NerissaRavenHeart Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: http://www.o-re-sa-ma.com/ Posts: 271	So your straight STR in your AA's Sagara? How's that been treating ya, it seems you like it pretty well. So you have Str 8-8-8-8-8 and the rest in Sta? and your stamina will end up looking something like STA 5-5 or something another like that? And your fighting bare handed?Masuimi

04-12-2006, 06:17 PM	#18
zabor General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 425	STr may be a good option for cheapo monks, but once you get your hands on some good weapons (57 DR dualwields) you are doing more dps with other AA lines. Also, fighting unarmed is bad because you can't change your damage type. Let's see your dps when you are fighting a crushing resistent mob. Message Edited by zaboron on 04-12-2006 04:19 PM __________________

04-12-2006, 08:42 PM	#19
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	diamondmage wrote: Cusashorn wrote: I'm sorry, but after Moorgard himself posted here a few months ago that Barefisted Fighting is not a very smart weapon choice, I was sold that it never will be untill I see a statement in the patch message otherwise. He said that barefisted fighting is a 2 hand weapon, and it's only viable use is when you absolutely have no other option. He said that even the most basic fighting weapon from a merchant in the city is more powerful than bare fisted fighting. That's why I don't think the Strength line is anything good. that was said a while back and before the aa line was develop'd. before u knock it respec for a day and test it out. thats what i did and im not goin back to any line now. im throughly sold on the str line for every template. Wise Advice. I guess I should give it a try before I completely dismiss it.

04-12-2006, 10:01 PM	#20
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Cusashorn wrote: I'm sorry, but after Moorgard himself posted here a few months ago that Barefisted Fighting is not a very smart weapon choice, I was sold that it never will be untill I see a statement in the patch message otherwise. He said that barefisted fighting is a 2 hand weapon, and it's only viable use is when you absolutely have no other option. He said that even the most basic fighting weapon from a merchant in the city is more powerful than bare fisted fighting. That's why I don't think the Strength line is anything good. Must've missed the posts and patch notes after that where they changed unarmed to a magic weapon with a 2.5 2h delay. Must've missed all the monks out there using a 448str build and parsing crazy damage, eh? Unarmed is a viable and very good option unless your weapons are 57dr or higher. zaboron wrote: STr may be a good option for cheapo monks, but once you get your hands on some good weapons (57 DR dualwields) Ryza you have a lot of 57+ dr weapons for sale on your broker eh? Funny since every single one of them is raid dropped, most no-trade. I doubt being cheap has anythign to do with it. Message Edited by Gaige on 04-12-2006 11:03 AM __________________

04-13-2006, 02:49 AM	#21
diamondma Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 261	zaboron wrote:STr may be a good option for cheapo monks, but once you get your hands on some good weapons (57 DR dualwields) you are doing more dps with other AA lines. Also, fighting unarmed is bad because you can't change your damage type. Let's see your dps when you are fighting a crushing resistent mob. Message Edited by zaboron on 04-12-2006 04:19 PM wow i dont know if i should take that as an insult or not. first off im not a cheapo monk, up untill t7 i had some of the best items in t6, i just saw that there is a definite plus side to the str line if u remain blind to it then plz stay that way but dont give me or other people [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for it. second off ive yet to hear anyone parsing that much higher with t7 fabled weaps, not to mention u will pull agro if u go above ur tanks ability to gain hate, so u can walk around sayin that ur stick is bigger but whats the point if u cant use it. third off with debuffs and the changes to mobs physical mit resist's to physical dmg are pretty much nil now. there is very very little change in my dps wether the mob is crush resist or not. fourth when u use the str line from what ive seen ur proc rate almost doubles, with brawlers that means more hate for tanking, more dps from procs, and less power used due to not having to taunt as much. sounds like a no brainer to me. add the riposte line to that and u open up a whole new can of worms, not to mention the 520 crushing debuff. so once again dont knock it till u try it. and no nerissa im not full str line i have 27 aa right now i think im currently 8/8/8/2 str which ill be respecing to 4/4/8str 4/4/8sta 4/4/8int when i get the points i just dont want to sit on the points or put them into semi useless stat buffs or slot two skills. i'd rather keep them in str line where i can make use of them untill i have enough to complete another 4/4/8 line. enough of my rambling carry on.

04-13-2006, 09:00 PM	#22
zabor General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 425	there are mobs who are crushing immune. So no damage with unarmed. I dont know if it was an oversight by soe, because they said there will be no more immunities, but there definately still are some. __________________

04-14-2006, 02:48 AM	#23
diamondma Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 261	havent seen one yet what mobs are u talking about?