Royal Great Flail... Question

Robsco · 09-06-2005, 01:20 PM

Will the Royal Great Flail still be a good weapon choice after combat revamp. Is it better to have a slow 2 hander or go duel weilding? I currently have the Pristmatic and a fabled fist... I forget the name and Steamfont just went down so I cant check however they have a very similair damage raitng and proc like the prismatic. Thanks Robsco

Germo · 09-06-2005, 06:22 PM

It [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] well better still rock.

stfields · 09-06-2005, 06:28 PM

I have not played in Beta - there are other monks that "might" now better if they tried it out. If the game mechanics are still the same, then the RGF's high delay/high dmg advantage when coupled with combat arts is going to go to waste.

Combat arts like Shocking Hand (next 8 successful attacks in 30s have a dmg proc) will be a little wasteful as you might not land 8 successful attacks unless the mob is blue/green or you have a lot of haste.

A fellow guildie monk on Beta reports that the new hate proc seems to work better when dual wielding rather than using the RGF. That "might" get fixed though. Most other weapon procs in this game seem to be normalized to a 3s delay like the Gleaming Strike weapons. With no haste and no combat arts used in the current EQ2, you can expect about 1 proc per min when using a 1hander/2hander, regardless of its delay. If the hate proc is normalized, then put a tick-mark up for the RGF. If the hate proc is not normalized, then you might want to tank with dual wield weapons for the added hate.

bonesbro · 09-06-2005, 06:59 PM

We can assume it's normalized. It starts to get into interesting territory though... Something we've ignored in the past when calculating proc% is that with DW weapons you have a small chance for the proc to fire twice. Even on a 12% proc the odds are very low (12% proc, normalized to say 8%, gives you a 0.64% chance of proccing twice. Not enough to consider. But with a 50% proc, even normalized to say 30%, you have a 9% chance of a double proc, something you can't get with a 2H weapon. Now, as I write that, my "bogus math" alert is going off, but I just crawled out of bed and it's too early for my brain to math things correctly...

bonesbro · 09-06-2005, 07:01 PM

Oh, and to answer your question: it will still be a good weapon. It should be about the same (or maybe slightly worse) than DW fabled. As always, we're just making up guesses until someone does a good long parse test.

Nemi · 09-06-2005, 07:02 PM

I don't understand what you mean by proccing twice? You mean each weapon proccing at the same time? Statistically it doesn't matter as each weapon will have it's own chance to proc and is just another factor into the equation.

Generally tho, dual wielder have less chance to proc that 1 or 2hers don't they? To factor in the fact there is 2 chances for it to proc.

Ethelwo · 09-06-2005, 07:42 PM

Actually the royal great flail is best suited for monks and bruisers more then any other class. After the change this will be amplified even more. No other fighter class will have the haste that goes along with Brawlers. From what I understand after the change is that item haste, self haste and group haste will stack. Two item hastes wont stack, two self haste wont stack and two group hastes wont stack, but one of each will. Monk + Quiet Purity + FBSS + Ever Burning Fire will have alot of haste.

Gaige · 09-06-2005, 08:23 PM

Ethelwolf wrote:
Actually the royal great flail is best suited for monks and bruisers more then any other class. After the change this will be amplified even more. No other fighter class will have the haste that goes along with Brawlers. From what I understand after the change is that item haste, self haste and group haste will stack. Two item hastes wont stack, two self haste wont stack and two group hastes wont stack, but one of each will. Monk + Quiet Purity + FBSS + Ever Burning Fire will have alot of haste.

That's interesting that they decided to let our group stack too.

I seriously doubt its even possible to make the RGF a bad weapon.

Babayaaga · 09-06-2005, 09:13 PM

Even without haste, it's still a good weapon considering the lessened riposte damage we take from using a slower weapon. Unless this is something that is changing as well, considering the reports I'm hearing about bruisers/monks actually being able to tank some... doesn't a slow 2h weapon that does heavy damage thusly helping to maintain agro make more sense?

Message Edited by Babayaaga on 09-06-2005 10:14 AM

09-06-2005, 06:22 PM	#2
Germo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 32	It [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] well better still rock. __________________ Sseae Jabberwok Monk of Gravestone Coven Antoina Bayle

09-06-2005, 06:28 PM	#3
stfields Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 295	I have not played in Beta - there are other monks that "might" now better if they tried it out. If the game mechanics are still the same, then the RGF's high delay/high dmg advantage when coupled with combat arts is going to go to waste. Combat arts like Shocking Hand (next 8 successful attacks in 30s have a dmg proc) will be a little wasteful as you might not land 8 successful attacks unless the mob is blue/green or you have a lot of haste. A fellow guildie monk on Beta reports that the new hate proc seems to work better when dual wielding rather than using the RGF. That "might" get fixed though. Most other weapon procs in this game seem to be normalized to a 3s delay like the Gleaming Strike weapons. With no haste and no combat arts used in the current EQ2, you can expect about 1 proc per min when using a 1hander/2hander, regardless of its delay. If the hate proc is normalized, then put a tick-mark up for the RGF. If the hate proc is not normalized, then you might want to tank with dual wield weapons for the added hate. __________________ ~Taveren Kinslayer~ 60 Armorer/Alchemist/Jeweler 60 Weaponsmith/Sage/Woodworker 60 Monk ~ RETIRED

09-06-2005, 06:59 PM	#4
bonesbro Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 651	We can assume it's normalized. It starts to get into interesting territory though... Something we've ignored in the past when calculating proc% is that with DW weapons you have a small chance for the proc to fire twice. Even on a 12% proc the odds are very low (12% proc, normalized to say 8%, gives you a 0.64% chance of proccing twice. Not enough to consider. But with a 50% proc, even normalized to say 30%, you have a 9% chance of a double proc, something you can't get with a 2H weapon. Now, as I write that, my "bogus math" alert is going off, but I just crawled out of bed and it's too early for my brain to math things correctly... __________________ Legond of Najena, Monk Ancient.

09-06-2005, 07:01 PM	#5
bonesbro Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 651	Oh, and to answer your question: it will still be a good weapon. It should be about the same (or maybe slightly worse) than DW fabled. As always, we're just making up guesses until someone does a good long parse test. __________________ Legond of Najena, Monk Ancient.

09-06-2005, 08:23 PM	#8
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Ethelwolf wrote: Actually the royal great flail is best suited for monks and bruisers more then any other class. After the change this will be amplified even more. No other fighter class will have the haste that goes along with Brawlers. From what I understand after the change is that item haste, self haste and group haste will stack. Two item hastes wont stack, two self haste wont stack and two group hastes wont stack, but one of each will. Monk + Quiet Purity + FBSS + Ever Burning Fire will have alot of haste. That's interesting that they decided to let our group stack too. I seriously doubt its even possible to make the RGF a bad weapon. __________________

09-06-2005, 01:20 PM	#1
Robsco Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	Will the Royal Great Flail still be a good weapon choice after combat revamp. Is it better to have a slow 2 hander or go duel weilding? I currently have the Pristmatic and a fabled fist... I forget the name and Steamfont just went down so I cant check however they have a very similair damage raitng and proc like the prismatic. Thanks Robsco

09-06-2005, 07:02 PM	#6
Nemi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 603	I don't understand what you mean by proccing twice? You mean each weapon proccing at the same time? Statistically it doesn't matter as each weapon will have it's own chance to proc and is just another factor into the equation. Generally tho, dual wielder have less chance to proc that 1 or 2hers don't they? To factor in the fact there is 2 chances for it to proc.

09-06-2005, 07:42 PM	#7
Ethelwo General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 212	Actually the royal great flail is best suited for monks and bruisers more then any other class. After the change this will be amplified even more. No other fighter class will have the haste that goes along with Brawlers. From what I understand after the change is that item haste, self haste and group haste will stack. Two item hastes wont stack, two self haste wont stack and two group hastes wont stack, but one of each will. Monk + Quiet Purity + FBSS + Ever Burning Fire will have alot of haste.

09-06-2005, 09:13 PM	#9
Babayaaga Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 224	Even without haste, it's still a good weapon considering the lessened riposte damage we take from using a slower weapon. Unless this is something that is changing as well, considering the reports I'm hearing about bruisers/monks actually being able to tank some... doesn't a slow 2h weapon that does heavy damage thusly helping to maintain agro make more sense? Message Edited by Babayaaga on 09-06-2005 10:14 AM __________________ Babayaaga (81 Fury) Inaera (90 Berserker) Porta (87 Monk) Noir (90 Templar) Babs (81 Illusionist) Piia (90 Mystic)