Which weapons are best when 2H v DW v 1H shield

[TheDepu]

Basically I'm hoping to open up a threat to discuss what non-master chest drops are worh using 45-50. Whats better to solo with versus to MT with? I'm in moderate gear at 46 rubicite drops/HQ items (fbss/jboots/fishbone/sbs/hiero/pgt/sbd/2slayer rings) I have 21% worn haste. I can no longer solo any green group mobs. I used to level that way and it was fun AoE solo stuff. Looking for some real advice from upper zerkers. Also want to hear from any other halfling zerkers out there over 45? the next highest on befallen is 29. Declan McManus Drinkers of Ale Befallen 46.8 Zerkling

[Tagright]

I cannot tell you what's best.  I can just tell you what works for me. The 2H I use is an ebon halbred.  I use it when xp grinding as the MT and fighting non-named mobs ranging from blue to yellow with a Inquisitor and a Defiler/Fury in the group.  Some people disagree with ever using 2H and MTing, but that's their argument to make. I use my 1H for tougher mobs and raiding.  For crushing I use the ebon sceptre, for slashing the Swine Fiend Battle Axe (at least until I get Bloodfire).  I dual weild when soloing and use the SBD/PGT combo for the proc effects of the PGT. I do not believe that any of the weapons are uber.  All are pretty easily attainable.

[Rokn]

Hi,

 

  I would have to say in a group, why would someone ever use a 1 hander? I  only used my Screaming Mace a few times in a group for the endless power proc, and that was for fun. I always use a 2hs/2hb no matter what, unless I am tanking a raid which only happens when our guardian's are not on(rare!). I can solo the green ^^ ice golems in EF ice tunne with no problem, they take like 10-12% of my hp tops and I still have 50%+ power left. 2 handers are better for berserkers imo because with the higher delay but higher damage it makes it great for us. Low riposte and high dps, what more can you ask? We only have one multi-hit attacks, Frenzy. I rarely ever even get riposted off this. I currently use my prismatic 2hs and a sharlian maul for my 2hb. I understand not everyone has access to weapons like these, however before i got my prismatic 2hs, I was using an ebon imbued 2hs. There is no reason someone cannot get an ebon, it will take you 10hours tops if you take the time to harvest, or to farm the money to buy one. DW is stupid as hell to me, i would only ever use it if the 2 dmg ratings went to 30 on each. My prismatic 2hs is a 59.1 dmg rating, which is curretnly the highest in game, from what i have seen.

 

My opinion,

 

roknor

[Scarax]

I really have to strongly agree with Roknor here. Raids aside, there is no compelling reason to use a 1H or dual wielding weapons due to their subpar damage as compared to two handers. There are a few reasons for the disparity with procs being among the most discussed currently.

Again, I really think this should be looked at because it has to be affecting Scout damage as compared to ours. Scouts are always complaining about their damage and we're the posterclass of the differences. We have Blood Rage and a procing weapon and our damage is very good comparitively. If the dual wield issue were fixed perhaps this would get the scout classes and fighter classes more in line with each other.

Just a thought.

[Davish_Darkwolf]

You can still solo green group mobs very well at that level, i do it all the time and im at 47 now.

 

It's just a question to fight in the right zones. Im constantly changing from Cazic Thule, to Feerrott, Everfrost  and even deeper Runnyeye.

 

If they are ^^  they usually come in pairs and very doable,  if they are  ^   they usually are 4-5 mobs and doable.

 

Havent tried the group giant mobs in EF at this level, at 46 they still kicked my butt, but they were still blue, will try it out today.

 

 

Regarding weapons,  if im soloing i usually  use a 2 hander,  my  Heart Reaver  still is one of the best for my level  and  i switch between that and a Nordic Claymore.

 

If im fighting in a small group of  2-3  people   i always use a 2 hander,  if im fighting in a full group and depending on mob difficulty, i switch to  1 hander  and  shield.   I use a Bloodfire sword for 1 hander and still a Guard of Grumm shield (my rubicite tower shield still gives me less AF bonus).

 

Im not badly equiped, but not ubber either,  have my fbss on and all in fulginate armor with 2 imbued pieces (chest and legs).  Money is on shortage (whats new?)  and  i need to upgrade a bit in the next levels.

 

 

Message Edited by Davish_Darkwolf on 04-29-2005 08:20 PM

[Tagright]

You guys raise some good points.  I agree of the 2H except for raids and unusually tough mobs.  And, yes, DW damage output is a joke compared to our high damage weapons. In defense of DWing, however, I find that the PGT proc keeps me full health and power so that there is no downtime when I solo.  I probably kill slower that I would with my 2 hander, but I don't take breaks.  If I am soloing, it's already bad xp, so I just want to keep it going.  Sitting and doing nothing when I am already basically doing nothing really stinks. I will solo CT yard trash tonight with my 2 Hander to see if there's a difference than my DWs in terms of power breaks and recovery time.  If I remember, I will post my observations in this thread.

[Oracle_Centuri]

2 handers:

Get the 2 handed Prismatic and the Royal Great Flail and you will never use another weapon.  

 

If by chance you really feel the need to use a shield, you wil want to pick up the 2 weapons from fear, Blood Fire (slash) and Witherns something or other (crush).   They both have nice procs and you can pick one up from completing the quest and the other usually off the market for about 50 gold.

 

Always carry 2 of each weapon type you plan to use, in off-setting damage types.   If not you stand the chance of having raid mobs resist all your damage, as about half of them are resistant to one damage type.

 

 

[Krohw]

My setup for your situation was generally as follows: If I had one healer in the group or was tanking stuff that was high yellow and up, I would always use a shield and a 1 hander. Otherwise I went with 2 handers.  2 handers will almost always end up doing more damage with our arts and given our ability to haste to high levels. As for what are good NON MASTER weapons to look for: 1 handed Screaming Mace, Blood Fire, Any Pristine Ebon/Cedar weapon that you choose.  You really wont go wrong.  One thing to consider if you start to raid though:  A ton of high end content is Slash immune or Pierce immune, so if you invest in anything once...make it a blunt weapon.  And you will need a Legendary or better weapon to hit most bosses as well. For basic non raid stuff, I liked the Ancient Ebon weapons, they should be cheap on vendors, but they arent Legendary 2 handed (E)BBC, Heirophants Crook, Monsoon, Any Pristine Ebon/Cedar weapon that you choose.  Again for normal day to day, Ancient Ebon is good bang for the buck. I really cant comment about DW because all I ever had were SBD and SSoY, and once I had a good 2 hander, I never used DW again. Hope this helps

[NotAVict]

---

Tagright wrote:
I cannot tell you what's best.  I can just tell you what works for me.

The 2H I use is an ebon halbred.  I use it when xp grinding as the MT and fighting non-named mobs ranging from blue to yellow with a Inquisitor and a Defiler/Fury in the group.  Some people disagree with ever using 2H and MTing, but that's their argument to make.

I use my 1H for tougher mobs and raiding.  For crushing I use the ebon sceptre, for slashing the Swine Fiend Battle Axe (at least until I get Bloodfire). 

I dual weild when soloing and use the SBD/PGT combo for the proc effects of the PGT.

I do not believe that any of the weapons are uber.  All are pretty easily attainable.

---

Sorry for being ignorant of the abreviations, but can someone say the whole name of an SBD and a PGT?  I have been reading various forums and whenever talk of dual wield weapons comes up I see those mentioned, but didn't get in early enough to actually see what they stand for. (I do know what an EBBC or a BBC is though )

Thanks,

Noob

[ins4nity11]

PGT- Polished granite tomahawk

SBD- Serrated bone dirk

oh, btw SSoY- Short sword of the y'kasha

At least I think that is what they are, i have only made a ranger templar guardian and bruiser, none were over lvl 25, so i could be wrong.

[Ethelwo]

It really doesn't matter, just go for stats and procs. use treasured, quested or Fabled and leave the crafted in the vault. That way you'll never see immune to one of your hits.

Berserkers kill very well with any weapon. So grab one that suits you and go kill with it.

[Memmoch]

I can't really speak for the 2Hd'ers out there as I use the 1h/board option for raid/named mobs and Duel wield for everything else.  The choice I have for DW is PGT and SBD.  I have a SSoY but in comparasion to my SBD I found the SBD was better due to stat increases.  The 1h/board I use is the Ghoulbane (I'm in dire need of a upgrade on that one) and the SBS (shiny brass shield).  As was stated above it's all about your play style and how WELL you know your class.  Anyone that says DW is sucky DPS should check my parse logs, I've easily hit 110+ in DPS while maintaining enough power to keep a constant pull chain going in both myself and my group members against group encounters (blue-yellow++)  On average my guild and I have noticed that we generally kill off mobs faster than other groups that hunt in the same area (CT, Feerrott, etc).  Just remember if you go DW....encounter proc AOE's are your best friend...

[Tagright]

By way of update, I recently finished the screaming mace quest and -- wow -- what a weapon.  It's 1H crushing.  Some tanks are wary of it because it procs a hate reducer, but that reduction is way offset by the additional power that also procs.  It basically lets me hit my combats arts as much as I want, generating huge damage and hate, without worrying about running out of power.  I have never lost agro using it, even though I regularly group with a trigger happy wizzie, who does his best to pull agro off me. Again, I am not saying this is the best 1H crusher out there, but it's easily obtainable and I expect that I will be using it until I get prismatics.  All tanks would be well advised to do the quest and give it a shot.

[Sabin the Gre]

Just to Echo some posts that were already made:

 

2-Handed:  Something for every flavor.  Royal Great Flail, Prismatic Greatsword of the Scale, Pristine Imbued Ebon Greatsword (instead of EBBC which caps at 52 I believe), Heriophants Crook.

 

1-Hand + Shield:  Bloodfire, Screaming Mace (if you anticipate having power issues), Pristine Imbued Ebon (insert weapon here).  Also saw a nice 1 Handed Fabled last night on a guildy and it had the same proc as RGF (name was Something Axe of Misery maybe).

 

Dual Wield:  42+ (when you can get Heirophants) you should really try to avoid this.  Prior to 42, then the SSOY, Serated Bone Dirk, and the PGT are all good choices and are all heritages.  If you insist on Dual Wielding 42+ (see other posts about this) you can go with Pristine Imbued Ebon, or Pristine Imbued Cedar (which are generally cheaper)

 

Also, for dual wield and 1-Hand suggestions you can also add in Prismatic 1 hand or Dual wield to taste.  But if you take the dual wield, you'll regret it later.

 

[Pnaxx]

"encounter proc AOE's are your best friend"

someone wrote that and i was wondering wut that meant in sme detail. sounds like a good thing cuase i do like DW too fer a number of reasons.

thnx

Pnaxxy

[Sabin the Gre]

OK, one thing I want to clarify quick about dual wield vs 2 Hand in late game.  If you are seeking to damage maximize, then you want to go 2-Hand, as long as the damage ratings for your 2x dual wield, and your 2 hand = the same number.  Also, you want to use the slowest 2 hand or dual wield possible.  The reason for this is because your chance to proc is:

Base Weapon Speed / 3.0 * chance to proc. 

What this means is that if you're using a 1.5 second delay dual wield, your chance to proc is half that of whats listed on your weapon.  For the 3.8 second Royal Great Flail, the chance to proc is actualy 1.27 * chance to proc (almost 1/4 more than whats listed).  So by using a super slow weapon, on every hit your chance to proc is 1.27/.5 = 2.54 times more likely to proc than a slow fast dualwielding weapon.  In a general fight, you are going to do the bulk of your hits with a combat skills, not reg melee.  So lets say the average combat skill takes 1.5 seconds to cast.  So in a 15 second fight here's how it looks:

3.8 Second delay weapon will attack around 4 times and you will get off 10 combat skills for 14 total attacks.

1.5 Second delay dual wields will get off 20 melee attacks and 10 combat skills for 30 total attacks.

So 14 attacks total x 2.54 = 35.56            

And 30 attacks total x 1 = 30                                                                                                                                                               (2.54 vs 1 because on a 3.8 second delay weapon you are 2.54 times more likely than a 1.5 dual wield to proc.)

Now we take 35.56/30 = 1.18

So what this tells you is that over the entirity of a 15 second fight you are going to proc 18% more often than if your were using dual wields.  No take into consideration that this is just considerinng 1 proc and berserkers have 2 constantly used ones (anarchy + blood rage) and usually have them on their weapons.  

By typing out all this crap, I wanted to people that atleast for the time being if weapon ratings are equal, it is (with this game mechanic) more optimal to 2 hand than to dual wield. 

 

[Scarax]

Yep yep.

 

Finally I think everyone is on the same page now with the current state of Dual Wield and Two Handed combat. The question that I still have is when are the Dev's going to take a look at this and make a correction.

 

I think we all agree that DW and 2H should be as close to each other in damage delivered as possible. I don't like it when a game's mechanics make it so that there is really only one "right" choice.

 

Every berserker I see is all cut from the same mold. Everyone takes the same specialty skills, everyone uses the same equipment, etc. I'd really like to see things equal so that there are more interesting choices and variety between berserkers.

 

 

[CyonideWolfp]

Very good posts and discussion.  Thank God no flaming

 

I just wanted to add what I do sometimes if I'm in a larger group encounter, anything more than 3, is I'll throw on a DW weapons, use Anarchy, then Rampage, then Rage.  I better explain Rampage to the pre 50's.  It's a spell that you get so that each time you hit your target mob it hits each mob in the encounter for damage range (my damage with app4 is 110 - 230 or something).   That's each hit.  So since it lasts 15 seconds (spell itself says 36 seconds, but it doesn't, wears off well before that) I mean you swing a bunch in that time.  So you are talking doing about 1k + to each mob in the enounter, then I keep my bag open with my Glittering Claymore and just switch it out right fast.  Never miss a beat.  I don't do it every time as it would be extremely annoying, but this works well for mobs like those in Instance zones or like ring events like Heart of Fear.

 

Cyonide Wolfpaw

50 Zerker

Befallen

[Ralluw]

Don't mean to flame at all, but I think your math is flawed Sabin, what you are saying is in 14 attacks with a DW weapon, 4 melee, 10 arts (i presume you mean ST arts here) but you hit the mob 35.56 times? that is 21.56 hits on procs, which is more procs then hits. on a 3.8 delay weapon with 5% chance to proc you will proc 6.3% of the time on a 1.5 delay weapon with 5% chance to proc you will proc 2.5% of the time (also note for dual wield you may have two weapons which add procs to any weapons attack (i know PGT can proc on the other hand and on ranged) so with two such weapons your arts may have two chances to proc for a 5.0% chance) so with DW doing 30 attacks you will hit 30.75 times with the .75 being your procs and with 2H doing 14 attacks you will hit 14.882 times. so ya, 2H procs a bit more, over a long battle this will add up, if the damage output is about the same on melee, even slightly favoring the DW, the 2H will win out in the end. But I think the real thing 2H, esp for berserkers, has going for it is actually the slow speed, this allows you to use combat arts w/o the cast time hurting your rate of attack, with DW at 40 you are litterally hitting 10 times a second, casting a long cast art like Berserker Barrage/Assualt is gonna kill a bunch of melee hits (and possible procs), but it might only delay your 2H a second between strokes.  With all our haste (easily 100% when tanking, and ~100% most of the time not tanking), 2H is pretty fast so it isn't like you are gonna be checking your autoattack is actually on and still your character won't look like it drank to much coffee trying to swing so fast it can't complete animations. PGT's proc is nice and hard to give up, but it doesn't make you a god, there are fights it just does not proc, so don't think you can solo that blue++ and it won't hit you of your group can take that named orange++ and breeze on it, never base a fight on procs or arts, raw dps is the only thing you can truly count on. Once I got my pristine imbued cedar pike for a quarter the costs of an ebon cluster (not to mention the charges to make a ebon weapon, very cheap alternative on kithicor) I never went back to DW, I now have EBBC too for pierce immunes, but I like the pike the best for its proc, you can also grab a pristine imbued cedar greatstaff if you like the 2h blunts but I am waiting on Hiero Crook or something better, not desperate for a crusher atm. When you start killing level 40 nameds and especially epic encounters you WILL need legendary (heritage, rare quests, rare crafts) or fabled (master chest drops), treasured just won't cut it, getting four legendary/fabled weapons is tough (i.e. DW since you will need a pair of 2 different types for immunes).  On the other hand imbued cedar 2H's are reletively easy to get and give you the variety you need for immunes.

[Ralluw]

Double post

Message Edited by Ralluwen on 05-07-2005 10:32 AM

[Memmoch]

I was speaking about all our AOE's that we have available as well as "outside" AOE's such as those that mages put on us.  I've almost always Duel-wielded (I've tried a few times on the 2h and I never really noticed that big of a difference) up to my current lvl 43.  I'm not sure where the percentage numbers was gotten from as I've never seen anything that gives hard numbers like that but that dosn't mean that what was posted isn't true.  The different AOE's I always use in group encounters (2 or more) is blood rage, greater fury (I count it as a AOE as everytime you are struck you have a 32% chance to hit that mob back, so in multi-mob groups you can be procing this against all the mobs that are hitting you), Anarchy and Hold the Line.  Lot's of people I guess discount the little Gem called Hold the Line, everytime you hit it adds aggro accross the board and as Main Tanks holding aggro against any odds is our main concern.  DPS is second to this.  It seems to me that when I do duel-wield I proc just as many times on average as when I 2h maybe that's just me though.  I do know that the proc rate is totally messed up.  You can go against one group and not get any procs then against the next one get 8 .  When you have Hold the line up (for the large groups) I think a DW approach would be better, as you'll be hitting them 2x as much...therefore generating 2x as much aggro.  After reading some of the posts here though I plan on getting the crook (since my DW's are both hertiage) and testing this out with my brother extensivly (he's a templar).  Just wondering, where was the hard numbers gotten from for the equations on how often you proc?

[CyonideWolfp]

Keep in mind too though, and I think it might have been mentioned, that if you DW you are getting double the chance of them riposting you also, so you have double the chance of taking counter-attack damage.  This can add up very fast, especially because you swing so fast.

 

At the end game, I don't think I've seen any Zerkers on my server (there are 22 of us level 50 ones on Befallen) that DW.  Everyone uses a 2 hander.  With the haste we get it's just too uber not too.  But that's better left to the parsers to decide, and hey, it's your 15 bucks, you like DW you go for it!

 

Cyonide Wolfpaw - 50 Zerker - Befallen

[Memmoch]

Well I've done some parsing of my own with a weak 2h weapon (Lupine GreatHammer) and I'm sad to report it seems what everyone has been saying is correct.  /sigh  A droped weapon that is rated as being Treasured gives me better DPS and more procs with our weapon based AOE's than 2 of the top end heritage DW weapons for zerkers.  Going to get me a crook now I guess and long for the days of rushing into battle with a axe and a war dagger

[Pernicious Pira]

 If I use a 2 hander:   I  use the FABLED  Mess Sergent's Cleaver   damage rating 55.1   2.5 delay.   has process: Dazzling bolt glyph   +5 INT, +7 AGI, +7 STR, +6 WIS  =======================================  If I dual wield:   #1  The FABLED Darkcoil Fang Stiletto   damage rating 27.5  1.5 delay.  No process:   +13 AGI, +17 STR  AND   #2  The LEGENDARY Pristine Imbued Ebon Kris   damage rating 24.6   1.4 delay.   has process: Gleaming Strike   +13 AGI, +7 STR  Reguardless of how you crunch numbers, I almost always kill faster with the DW.  

[Oracle_Centuri]

Skullcleaver,

 

Thats cause your 2H sucks.  Go get a RGF or a prismatic 2 hander and try again.   Also, do you use Anarchy and Bloodlust?  If so you should see very clearly why 2H is better then DW for fights of any length.     I will give you this, DW is the only way to go when Rampaging, but besides that, there is very little reason (with the exception of wyrm steel weapons, but that is a WHOLE diffrent subject) to go DW.

 

Now when you guys find wyrm steel weapons, and your fighting a drakota, take everything I just said and trash it...DW all the way.

Message Edited by Oracle_Centurian on 05-09-2005 02:30 PM

[Oldlore]

Wish I could get a hold of a Royal Great Flail    As it is, only thing I've found is an Archon Great Flail which has similar stats minus the proc, which is huge.  I've decided to just sell it instead of attuning it and hope a better weapon will pop up.  Havent done the deception quest yet but hope to soon to get a prismatic. Wish they'd put in a recipe for an Ebon imbued great flail

[Sabin the Gre]

---

Ralluwen wrote:
Don't mean to flame at all, but I think your math is flawed Sabin, what you are saying is in 14 attacks with a DW weapon, 4 melee, 10 arts (i presume you mean ST arts here) but you hit the mob 35.56 times? that is 21.56 hits on procs, which is more procs then hits.

---

No my math was fine, your interpretation was wrong. 

 

It was 14 hits x 2.56 = 35.58

And 30 Hits x 1 = 30

 

I multiplied the 14 expected hits with the RGF times 2.56, because on each swing your a 2.56 times more likely to proc with the RGF than you are a 1.5 delay 12% proc'r.  The number 35.58 is the equivalent number of hits it would take with the using 1.5 delay dual wields to equal proc chance you get with 14 hits you get from the RGF.

 

If you have any more clarification issues I'll be more than happy to address them :smileyhappy: 

[Sokolov]

What about the Greatstaff of the WIndwalker?  That looks pretty decent for a 2hander too.

 

http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/item.vm?itemId=56958

[Despak]

Does all of the above apply to the mid level game?  Level 25 and onwards.

Currently my Zerker is 24 and uses; Imbued Fir Tower Shield & Imbued Carb Assault Axe or an Imbued Carb Halberd, I also have two Giant Pick Axes.

[Hardain]

Those things mentioned on this topic should be correct no matter are you lvl20 or lvl50, tho the weapons mentioned are high lvl ones