Jagged Blade of the Berzerker or Dual Wield?

Nof · 01-12-2005, 03:14 PM

I've been pondering this for a while, I just hit 23 and I've been using my JBotB but I was wondering if I could get more damage out of something else.

When I played last (night before "Big Patch") JBotB did 22 minimum damage every 2.5 seconds. That's 88 damage in 10 seconds, or 528 damage minimum per minute should the encounter last one minute and you hit every time. This is not taking into account combat arts, higher attack rolls etc, this is strictly minimum weapon damage.

Now, I also found a dragoon dagger (dual wield) that did 7 minimum damage every 1.2 seconds, which equates to 58 damage per hand per 10 seconds of combat. So thats 116 damage for ten seconds, and 700 damage in one continous minute where every strike hits. So thats 700 minimum damage, not including combat arts, higher rolls (I believe it was 7-10 at the time I played).

Clearly you do more damage with the dual wield over the course of a minute (unless my figures are wrong, which they very well could be) but I was also told that with skills like Mangle, Furious Onslaught, Knee Break, Wound etc that you do MORE damage over time with the JBotB because the higher minimum damage is better for your combat arts than it would be with the dual wield, which I assume only takes into account the minimum damage of the primary hand weapon when using a combat art, and not both hands (which should probably be fixed but who knows).

Anyone else found anything better to use? I think my damage increases with the JBotB at 24 or 26 anyway, but I was just curious to know what you guys have found to be the best weapons so far.

Deathscythe ~ Najena ~ 23 Troll Berzerker

Nof · 01-13-2005, 02:19 AM

Anyone?

madmike · 01-13-2005, 02:27 AM

I'm in the same boat as you. If I'm tanking I will go 2H or 1H + shield depending on the MOB. I find I just take too much damage from parries if I go dual wield.

I tried a bit of dual wielding last night, using a couple of Forged Carbonite weapons while I was soloing. I wasn't parsing anything, but it seemed I was a lot lower on health while dual wielding than I was with the JBotB. Eventually I just switched back to the JBotB.

It would be interesting to see some parses.

asteldian · 01-13-2005, 02:34 AM

The weapon you use will not effect the combat art damage at all, however, once you take into account the casting time of combat arts you must realise you miss alot more swings with your DW than you do with the slower 2her which you can easily time the combat arts between. So, while DWing with no combat arts does more damage than a 2her, once you take into account missed swings you will find the damage between DW and 2her much more equal

Hoe · 01-13-2005, 02:35 AM

Everything I've read says all damage from Combat Abilities is independent from your weapons, so mangle will do 60 no matter what weapon you have equipped. As far as 2 handed or duel wield, they're supposedly equal. The slower weapon is going to give fewer chances for ripostes though, so that is something to consider. I always duel wield, I love to see my damage numbers flying up my chat screen as fast as possible.

Nof · 01-13-2005, 04:12 AM

Ok I've never atually used a shield, and I've also never used dual wield, so what I'm seeing from my character is kind of biased, the reason I started this is because I wasn't finding my damage satisfactory with the 2H axe I'm currently using.

Hoeuk wrote:
Everything I've read says all damage from Combat Abilities is independent from your weapons, so mangle will do 60 no matter what weapon you have equipped.

As far as 2 handed or duel wield, they're supposedly equal. The slower weapon is going to give fewer chances for ripostes though, so that is something to consider. I always duel wield, I love to see my damage numbers flying up my chat screen as fast as possible.

Well that can't be mathmatically correct, in both cases provided you hit every time your minimum damage with a weapon that does 7 damage every 1.2 seconds with both hands is still 200 minimum damage MORE than the 2 hander, so theoretially dual handed are weaker, so I'm wondering where the balance is, or is there a better two hander out there than the JBotB? One way or the other the numbers can't lie, I'm just curious if anyone found a two handed weapon that they can say does better damage than the 700 damage in a minute that the Dragoon Dagger gives you, or the 528 damage per minute that the JBotB does.

Cha · 01-13-2005, 05:52 AM

Obviously which weapons your using will affect which is better. If I'm tanking, then I'm not worried about riposte. I have a big fat 300 AC shield I use. Now if I'm not tanking I'm looking more towards DPS, and I may consider dual wielding. However I like 2-handed weapons.

That makes no sense, your only counting minimum.

Not to mention the dragoon dagger is a higher level item compared to your 2-hander. the dagger caps at out like 28 where the jagged axe is like 26?

I forget what I'm using but I picked up some 2-hander thats 2.2 or 2.0 delay and does more damage at my level than the jagged. I'm only level 20, but a better weapon is a better weapon.

Nof · 01-13-2005, 06:10 AM

Charb wrote:

Obviously which weapons your using will affect which is better. If I'm tanking, then I'm not worried about riposte. I have a big fat 300 AC shield I use. Now if I'm not tanking I'm looking more towards DPS, and I may consider dual wielding. However I like 2-handed weapons.

That makes no sense, your only counting minimum.

Not to mention the dragoon dagger is a higher level item compared to your 2-hander. the dagger caps at out like 28 where the jagged axe is like 26?

I forget what I'm using but I picked up some 2-hander thats 2.2 or 2.0 delay and does more damage at my level than the jagged. I'm only level 20, but a better weapon is a better weapon.

Of course I'm only counting minimum, who cares what you MIGHT do if you get a lucky role, all I'm interested in is what I WILL do no matter what. JBotB does 22 minimum damage every 2.5 seconds at level 23, Dragoon Dagger does 7 minimum damage every 1.2 seconds per hand (dual wield) so thats roughly 28 damage every 2.4 seconds per hand, it makes a bigger dent when you are in continous combat for a whole minute (which most people are) because then the Jagged Blade only does 528 minimum physical damage whereas the minimum you will always do no matter what with 2 Dragoon Daggers is 700!! <--- per minute or 350 with each hand.

Then you throw in the combat arts, which with Riposte you have more of an opportunity to do damage with dual wield because your hitting more often, sure your hitting for less damage per hit, but your dealing four hits (2 per hand) for every ONE your dealing with the JBotB.

Now my REAL question is are player crafted weapons as good or better? AND do they steadily get better the higher level you are like the other weapons? I know the next cool 2 hander is the Shiny Brass Halberd or something, but will a player crafted or rare drop dual wield significantly outdamage that like it does with the JBotB?

Nof · 01-13-2005, 06:12 AM

Also, if your using a shield your defeating the purpose of being a Berzerker...you should have just been a guardian and used dual wield for non tanking...

asteldian · 01-13-2005, 06:36 AM

You still arent taking into account all the swings you will miss due to using a combat art, sure if you dont do any combat arts all fight then DW beats 2her, but if you are using combat arts then alot of your speedy hits wont happen and thats why 2h and DW work out to be about the same

madmike · 01-13-2005, 08:05 PM

I'm not thrilled about having to use a shield, but on tougher group MOBs you're hurting your group by not having that extra AC. It makes a huge difference. Try fighting a white++ MOB or better with a shield and then try without one and you'll see.

Nof · 01-13-2005, 09:20 PM

madmike77 wrote:

I'm not thrilled about having to use a shield, but on tougher group MOBs you're hurting your group by not having that extra AC. It makes a huge difference. Try fighting a white++ MOB or better with a shield and then try without one and you'll see.

Hehe I'd been fighting red ^^ mobs before the patch with just the JBotB (TS when I was 20-22 with group members 25-29) but when I get back I may go for the Nerius Pirate Trident and see how well that does, my buddy Noah uses that on his Guardian with a Feysteel Kite Shield

Also, I was not aware that Combat arts cause you to miss when you swing, I have seen several times where I've used combat arts that I hit the same time the art does, or do you mean while its "Loading"? I always thought my character was still attacking melee while that was happening... but your still hitting for 4 hits to every 1 you make with the JBotB and since you lose just as many swings with the JBotB when your using combat arts... I wonder if theres a way to calculate, I can't get in-game for another 3 weeks or so, but maybe one of you could help me out with the math here, I'm only doing this to help all of us out to find an awesome weapon, so it's not just for me.

01-13-2005, 02:35 AM	#5
Hoe Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 58	Everything I've read says all damage from Combat Abilities is independent from your weapons, so mangle will do 60 no matter what weapon you have equipped. As far as 2 handed or duel wield, they're supposedly equal. The slower weapon is going to give fewer chances for ripostes though, so that is something to consider. I always duel wield, I love to see my damage numbers flying up my chat screen as fast as possible. __________________

01-13-2005, 04:12 AM	#6
Nof General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	Ok I've never atually used a shield, and I've also never used dual wield, so what I'm seeing from my character is kind of biased, the reason I started this is because I wasn't finding my damage satisfactory with the 2H axe I'm currently using. Hoeuk wrote: Everything I've read says all damage from Combat Abilities is independent from your weapons, so mangle will do 60 no matter what weapon you have equipped. As far as 2 handed or duel wield, they're supposedly equal. The slower weapon is going to give fewer chances for ripostes though, so that is something to consider. I always duel wield, I love to see my damage numbers flying up my chat screen as fast as possible. Well that can't be mathmatically correct, in both cases provided you hit every time your minimum damage with a weapon that does 7 damage every 1.2 seconds with both hands is still 200 minimum damage MORE than the 2 hander, so theoretially dual handed are weaker, so I'm wondering where the balance is, or is there a better two hander out there than the JBotB? One way or the other the numbers can't lie, I'm just curious if anyone found a two handed weapon that they can say does better damage than the 700 damage in a minute that the Dragoon Dagger gives you, or the 528 damage per minute that the JBotB does.

01-13-2005, 05:52 AM	#7
Cha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	Obviously which weapons your using will affect which is better. If I'm tanking, then I'm not worried about riposte. I have a big fat 300 AC shield I use. Now if I'm not tanking I'm looking more towards DPS, and I may consider dual wielding. However I like 2-handed weapons. That makes no sense, your only counting minimum. Not to mention the dragoon dagger is a higher level item compared to your 2-hander. the dagger caps at out like 28 where the jagged axe is like 26? I forget what I'm using but I picked up some 2-hander thats 2.2 or 2.0 delay and does more damage at my level than the jagged. I'm only level 20, but a better weapon is a better weapon. __________________ Charb, A Big Stupid Troll O Skull k Bones O Level 34 Armourer, 5th Place in Freeport Mistmoore Server

01-13-2005, 06:10 AM	#8
Nof General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	Charb wrote: Obviously which weapons your using will affect which is better. If I'm tanking, then I'm not worried about riposte. I have a big fat 300 AC shield I use. Now if I'm not tanking I'm looking more towards DPS, and I may consider dual wielding. However I like 2-handed weapons. That makes no sense, your only counting minimum. Not to mention the dragoon dagger is a higher level item compared to your 2-hander. the dagger caps at out like 28 where the jagged axe is like 26? I forget what I'm using but I picked up some 2-hander thats 2.2 or 2.0 delay and does more damage at my level than the jagged. I'm only level 20, but a better weapon is a better weapon. Of course I'm only counting minimum, who cares what you MIGHT do if you get a lucky role, all I'm interested in is what I WILL do no matter what. JBotB does 22 minimum damage every 2.5 seconds at level 23, Dragoon Dagger does 7 minimum damage every 1.2 seconds per hand (dual wield) so thats roughly 28 damage every 2.4 seconds per hand, it makes a bigger dent when you are in continous combat for a whole minute (which most people are) because then the Jagged Blade only does 528 minimum physical damage whereas the minimum you will always do no matter what with 2 Dragoon Daggers is 700!! <--- per minute or 350 with each hand. Then you throw in the combat arts, which with Riposte you have more of an opportunity to do damage with dual wield because your hitting more often, sure your hitting for less damage per hit, but your dealing four hits (2 per hand) for every ONE your dealing with the JBotB. Now my REAL question is are player crafted weapons as good or better? AND do they steadily get better the higher level you are like the other weapons? I know the next cool 2 hander is the Shiny Brass Halberd or something, but will a player crafted or rare drop dual wield significantly outdamage that like it does with the JBotB?

01-13-2005, 09:20 PM	#12
Nof General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	madmike77 wrote: I'm not thrilled about having to use a shield, but on tougher group MOBs you're hurting your group by not having that extra AC. It makes a huge difference. Try fighting a white++ MOB or better with a shield and then try without one and you'll see. Hehe I'd been fighting red ^^ mobs before the patch with just the JBotB (TS when I was 20-22 with group members 25-29) but when I get back I may go for the Nerius Pirate Trident and see how well that does, my buddy Noah uses that on his Guardian with a Feysteel Kite Shield Also, I was not aware that Combat arts cause you to miss when you swing, I have seen several times where I've used combat arts that I hit the same time the art does, or do you mean while its "Loading"? I always thought my character was still attacking melee while that was happening... but your still hitting for 4 hits to every 1 you make with the JBotB and since you lose just as many swings with the JBotB when your using combat arts... I wonder if theres a way to calculate, I can't get in-game for another 3 weeks or so, but maybe one of you could help me out with the math here, I'm only doing this to help all of us out to find an awesome weapon, so it's not just for me.

01-12-2005, 03:14 PM	#1
Nof General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	I've been pondering this for a while, I just hit 23 and I've been using my JBotB but I was wondering if I could get more damage out of something else. When I played last (night before "Big Patch") JBotB did 22 minimum damage every 2.5 seconds. That's 88 damage in 10 seconds, or 528 damage minimum per minute should the encounter last one minute and you hit every time. This is not taking into account combat arts, higher attack rolls etc, this is strictly minimum weapon damage. Now, I also found a dragoon dagger (dual wield) that did 7 minimum damage every 1.2 seconds, which equates to 58 damage per hand per 10 seconds of combat. So thats 116 damage for ten seconds, and 700 damage in one continous minute where every strike hits. So thats 700 minimum damage, not including combat arts, higher rolls (I believe it was 7-10 at the time I played). Clearly you do more damage with the dual wield over the course of a minute (unless my figures are wrong, which they very well could be) but I was also told that with skills like Mangle, Furious Onslaught, Knee Break, Wound etc that you do MORE damage over time with the JBotB because the higher minimum damage is better for your combat arts than it would be with the dual wield, which I assume only takes into account the minimum damage of the primary hand weapon when using a combat art, and not both hands (which should probably be fixed but who knows). Anyone else found anything better to use? I think my damage increases with the JBotB at 24 or 26 anyway, but I was just curious to know what you guys have found to be the best weapons so far. Deathscythe ~ Najena ~ 23 Troll Berzerker

01-13-2005, 02:19 AM	#2
Nof General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	Anyone?

01-13-2005, 02:27 AM	#3
madmike General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6	I'm in the same boat as you. If I'm tanking I will go 2H or 1H + shield depending on the MOB. I find I just take too much damage from parries if I go dual wield. I tried a bit of dual wielding last night, using a couple of Forged Carbonite weapons while I was soloing. I wasn't parsing anything, but it seemed I was a lot lower on health while dual wielding than I was with the JBotB. Eventually I just switched back to the JBotB. It would be interesting to see some parses.

01-13-2005, 02:34 AM	#4
asteldian Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 199	The weapon you use will not effect the combat art damage at all, however, once you take into account the casting time of combat arts you must realise you miss alot more swings with your DW than you do with the slower 2her which you can easily time the combat arts between. So, while DWing with no combat arts does more damage than a 2her, once you take into account missed swings you will find the damage between DW and 2her much more equal

01-13-2005, 06:12 AM	#9
Nof General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	Also, if your using a shield your defeating the purpose of being a Berzerker...you should have just been a guardian and used dual wield for non tanking...

01-13-2005, 06:36 AM	#10
asteldian Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 199	You still arent taking into account all the swings you will miss due to using a combat art, sure if you dont do any combat arts all fight then DW beats 2her, but if you are using combat arts then alot of your speedy hits wont happen and thats why 2h and DW work out to be about the same

01-13-2005, 08:05 PM	#11
madmike General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6	I'm not thrilled about having to use a shield, but on tougher group MOBs you're hurting your group by not having that extra AC. It makes a huge difference. Try fighting a white++ MOB or better with a shield and then try without one and you'll see.