Guardian idee's

Ena · 04-30-2006, 09:32 AM

We all know guardians got a hard time i liek tham but there are jsut some idees that might be interesting,

1

the Vanguard on EQ2 luanch was sweet yes but now that all can use it thay might aswell, but why not add another set like full plate or something like that with a new look and new helmet that only the guardian/berserkers can use be kinda interesting

2

strip 70% of our attack skills yes take tham away! and give us more short buffs like 100% dodge for 12 sec 100% repost 12 sec with reuse timers on 15 secones upgrade of skill upgrade off timer.

3 add stamina/wisdom to our defensiv line

4 add more taunts 1 or 2 more new lines be nice

5 give us aggro proc weapons for example: (t7 fable) 1hand slashing 100 hp 75 power 25 sta 25 str 25 wis proc: 5% proc rate: Anger I 100-150 taunt than. Anger II 200-250 and so on

6 give us a towershield with furys bash only in kite shields as a penelty: Whane used a successfull damage attack furys bash has a 10% proc rate of increasing threat of target by 250

7 Also add Repost as a passiv skill as Parry and Defense if you have 300 in Repost thare 1/5 of a chanse that you will repost incoming frontal attacks.

8 Also as a guardina i have notic that in a duo or trio group with lets say fury guard wizard its very easy to lose aggro easyer to lose aggro than a full group becorse of unbalanced dps but than make our Moderate skill (lower aggro on singel target) to a Group spell Hate transfer would be nice aswell but than i know a class who would not like it.

9 i have notic with higher gear that a guardian can easy go to 65% avoid or more, i think thats wrong. we shoul have that number cut in half as we are not a monk class but instead make a new mitigation system that even if you got 2000 (lets say 45%) mitigation in chain

but than make it if you use plate and have 2000 mitigation you got let say (55% absorb) so you can say: plate 10% extra miti chain 5% leather 2.5% cloth 1.75% or something like that

10 Guardians intercept line and guardian sphere line should be remade for example: if you Guardian sphere and got a few mobs on you it will instantly kill you if mob hit on someother in group and after that the rest of the group die we should not take the damage more liek come and bash it away with our shield for example

Mob 1 looks at caster 1 and charges whane hes just about to hit the caster the guardian steps infront of him and blocks his attack not taking it but block it

11 all know guardian utility buffs could use some small changes yes, + Defense great buff. HP buff very nice but could add some more HP on it. + Attack skills very nice to compensait for the lose in defens stance but than if you get last AA/AP skill in wisdom tree its just extra Atk i rather have a + Parry buff as + defense buff would be more suited for a guardian.

And as you see i want to direct guardian more defensiv than its now. why? well if we look at our dps its crap look at our melee attack crap. But how will we be able to solo. Simple we DONT. but some wants sure than we got the stamian line AP/AA its very nice for extra dps whane soloing.

But those who dont got Kingdom of sky? well abit hard to awnser maybe add something for our offense stance now it got + str + atk skills. why not make it like

add 20% dubble attack 20% haste/dps str and a offensiv proc? not mutch but allways something right?

Maelwy · 04-30-2006, 10:29 AM

you're already the most defensive class in the game, and the best aggro maintaining class in the game, yet you want MORE?

95% of raid encounters require a guard to be successful. Making guards even more defensive and giving them more taunts would simply kill the majority of the other tanks in the game - reducing them to ONLY being viable as guard buffers and 2nd rate dps. There's already enough stigma out there against non guards.

we don't need to widen the gap.

That being said, I think you guys need another role when NOT in a primary MT position.

I'd love to see you guys get an offensive stance that dramatically changes your role. Dropping your defense/mitigations down to something similar to a crusader, cancelling your reactive taunts, etc. but greatly improving your offensive skills/dps output.

This would give the backup tank a reason for being taken on a raid, and for guards to be taken along on exp groups/instance runs when there are multiple tanks available.

Thats where the guards are weak right now, having a purpose OTHER than MT'ing a raid.

TanRaistlyn · 04-30-2006, 11:15 AM

I want Invulnerability for 2minutes on a 2minute timer with 100percent agro skill...and I will settle for nothing less SOE, GET IT DONE!!!

Henladar Bloodheart ~ · 04-30-2006, 11:22 AM

Maelwys1 wrote:

95% of raid encounters require a guard to be successful. Making guards even more defensive and giving them more taunts would simply kill the majority of the other tanks in the game - reducing them to ONLY being viable as guard buffers and 2nd rate dps. There's already enough stigma out there against non guards.

Not true tho... Zerkers can MT a whole bunch of stuff and can sure as hell kill more then 5% the raid mobs if you get the right people around him.

Maelwy · 04-30-2006, 11:36 AM

okay...agreed...zerks can hold their own, in a defensive and aggro maintenence role. Not as ideal as a guard, but certainly 2nd best for mt duties.

But the point was...should a guard, who's clearly leaps and bounds beyond every other class, get even more of what they already excell in, furthering the gap in that role?

Or should Strategies, and creative raid encounters that can emphasize the benefits of other fighters be implemented?

and to be fair to the guards - shouldn't they have another role to play when NOT mt'ing, (albeit with great sacrifices to their aggro/defensive position?)

TanRaistlyn · 04-30-2006, 12:51 PM

still sticking with my previous post.

vinterskugge · 04-30-2006, 02:14 PM

Maelwys1 wrote:

95% of raid encounters require a guard to be successful.

Completely untrue. We've killed everything in this expansion except Mutagenic, and we've used a zerker to tank all of it.

uzhiel feathered serpe · 04-30-2006, 08:26 PM

Maelwys1 wrote:

you're already the most defensive class in the game, and the best aggro maintaining class in the game, yet you want MORE?

95% of raid encounters require a guard to be successful. Making guards even more defensive and giving them more taunts would simply kill the majority of the other tanks in the game - reducing them to ONLY being viable as guard buffers and 2nd rate dps. There's already enough stigma out there against non guards.

we don't need to widen the gap.

That being said, I think you guys need another role when NOT in a primary MT position.

I'd love to see you guys get an offensive stance that dramatically changes your role. Dropping your defense/mitigations down to something similar to a crusader, cancelling your reactive taunts, etc. but greatly improving your offensive skills/dps output.

This would give the backup tank a reason for being taken on a raid, and for guards to be taken along on exp groups/instance runs when there are multiple tanks available.

Thats where the guards are weak right now, having a purpose OTHER than MT'ing a raid.

err......Paly offensive stance doesnt dramatically increase anything. It doesnt give procs, telekinesis, telepathy, and/or psionic abilities. IT does raise STRE and INT, and thats because paly damage is based off half nukes and half CA. In actually, when i turn on my OFF stance my nuke damage *might* go up by 10-15 points per nuke.

Now, if they gave our OFF stance freakin laser beams or the ability to summon ill-tempered, mutated sea bass then I would agree.

Sirlutt · 04-30-2006, 08:29 PM

i dont think we need anything you've listed.We just need our protection line looked at.. everything else is fine.

Wabit · 05-01-2006, 01:46 AM

TanRaistlyn wrote:
I want Invulnerability for 2minutes on a 2minute timer with 100percent agro skill...and I will settle for nothing less SOE, GET IT DONE!!!

/agree

add in 3k autoattack dps and i got no problems :smileysurprised:

digitalblasphemy · 05-01-2006, 06:10 AM

Maelwys1 wrote:

you're already the most defensive class in the game, and the best aggro maintaining class in the game, yet you want MORE?

95% of raid encounters require a guard to be successful. Making guards even more defensive and giving them more taunts would simply kill the majority of the other tanks in the game - reducing them to ONLY being viable as guard buffers and 2nd rate dps. There's already enough stigma out there against non guards.

we don't need to widen the gap.

That being said, I think you guys need another role when NOT in a primary MT position.

I'd love to see you guys get an offensive stance that dramatically changes your role. Dropping your defense/mitigations down to something similar to a crusader, cancelling your reactive taunts, etc. but greatly improving your offensive skills/dps output.

This would give the backup tank a reason for being taken on a raid, and for guards to be taken along on exp groups/instance runs when there are multiple tanks available.

Thats where the guards are weak right now, having a purpose OTHER than MT'ing a raid.

Best agro you say eh. I don't know how many times I've had a bruiser in my group doing some instanced zone. The bruiser isn't tanking, I am. Yet the bruiser, without using any of his taunts will peel off the mobs every single time. It took me ages to find out why. It's your taunting stance. The one that procs a taunt on the mob, but also a magical based proc nuke as well. With me going all out using my taunts, ca's, my tauting stance on, I'm losing agro every [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing time to a bruiser who has nothing on but his taunting stance so he can proc the extra magical dmg nuke.Don't post here and tell me we are the kings of agro. I can tell you matter of factly from my own personal experience, I've not seen that. As weird as it sounds, I hold agro better on raid mobs than in groups. In groups I just give up and let whoever has the agro keep it. This happened so often, our group let the warlock tank an instance and he did pretty good. Something just doesn't add up. I know I'm pumping out alot of hate via taunts, but it's not enough vs the dmg from bruisers,warlocks,swashbucklers etc. It's just strange.

Lyrus · 05-01-2006, 07:07 AM

My complaint about guardian offensive stance, is the fact that Str is so easy to cap, so the Str buff portion of it is useless, and I very rarely miss mobs, so additional weapon skill bonuses have no effect. Aside from that, the guardian class in my opinion is the dullest class to watch fight. Compression/swamp.....boot Icon, but ever since LU13, my guardian's too lazy to even lift his legs anymore. We even lost the old wild swing animation. What we're left with is the same 3 animations, which gets boring to watch over time. Pretty trivial complaints, but I can still wish to fight with a little more pizzaz can't I?

Crim001 · 05-01-2006, 08:34 AM

Only 2 things I really see wrong with the guard class-

1. Our stances compared with each other and when we aren't in a stance

I personally believe that the off stance for us isn't that useful. The added str only adds a slight bit of dps, but it takes away from our defense, leaving us even more vulnerable then before. A solution could be to add a proc (such as the bruiser) or perhaps give us a slight dps/haste mod and reduce the amount of str on the stance.

2. The protection line

^^Needs no explanation SMILEY

Aaliamz · 05-01-2006, 09:32 AM

Good point, our offensive stance could be useful for holding aggro but as my STR is capped half the time anyway it is of little use. So far I agree with many of the posters that our protection line needs looking at so that we use something other than ToS and stone sphere. (Also make the epic mobs in KoS actually hit the tank so a Guardian is sometimes needed to tank them!)

Krooner · 05-02-2006, 10:58 PM

Maelwys1 wrote:

you're already the most defensive class in the game, and the best aggro maintaining class in the game, yet you want MORE?

95% of raids ~~encounters require~~ use a ~~guard~~ ( WARRIOR ) to be successful. Making guards even more defensive and giving them more taunts would simply kill the majority of the other tanks in the game - reducing them to ONLY being viable as guard buffers and 2nd rate dps. There's already enough stigma out there against non guards.

we don't need to widen the gap.

That being said, I think you guys need another role when NOT in a primary MT position.

I'd love to see you guys get an offensive stance that dramatically changes your role. Dropping your defense/mitigations down to something similar to a crusader, cancelling your reactive taunts, etc. but greatly improving your offensive skills/dps output.

This would give the backup tank a reason for being taken on a raid, and for guards to be taken along on exp groups/instance runs when there are multiple tanks available.

Thats where the guards are weak right now, having a purpose OTHER than MT'ing a raid.

There ya go. Fixed your post for you. No charge.

04-30-2006, 10:29 AM	#2
Maelwy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 259	you're already the most defensive class in the game, and the best aggro maintaining class in the game, yet you want MORE? 95% of raid encounters require a guard to be successful. Making guards even more defensive and giving them more taunts would simply kill the majority of the other tanks in the game - reducing them to ONLY being viable as guard buffers and 2nd rate dps. There's already enough stigma out there against non guards. we don't need to widen the gap. That being said, I think you guys need another role when NOT in a primary MT position. I'd love to see you guys get an offensive stance that dramatically changes your role. Dropping your defense/mitigations down to something similar to a crusader, cancelling your reactive taunts, etc. but greatly improving your offensive skills/dps output. This would give the backup tank a reason for being taken on a raid, and for guards to be taken along on exp groups/instance runs when there are multiple tanks available. Thats where the guards are weak right now, having a purpose OTHER than MT'ing a raid. __________________ 70 Warlock and 70 Bruiser Currently filling NS's official corpse role, AND it's redheaded stepchild position.

04-30-2006, 11:22 AM	#4
Henladar Bloodheart ~ Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 72	Maelwys1 wrote: 95% of raid encounters require a guard to be successful. Making guards even more defensive and giving them more taunts would simply kill the majority of the other tanks in the game - reducing them to ONLY being viable as guard buffers and 2nd rate dps. There's already enough stigma out there against non guards. Not true tho... Zerkers can MT a whole bunch of stuff and can sure as hell kill more then 5% the raid mobs if you get the right people around him.

04-30-2006, 11:36 AM	#5
Maelwy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 259	okay...agreed...zerks can hold their own, in a defensive and aggro maintenence role. Not as ideal as a guard, but certainly 2nd best for mt duties. But the point was...should a guard, who's clearly leaps and bounds beyond every other class, get even more of what they already excell in, furthering the gap in that role? Or should Strategies, and creative raid encounters that can emphasize the benefits of other fighters be implemented? and to be fair to the guards - shouldn't they have another role to play when NOT mt'ing, (albeit with great sacrifices to their aggro/defensive position?) __________________ 70 Warlock and 70 Bruiser Currently filling NS's official corpse role, AND it's redheaded stepchild position.

04-30-2006, 02:14 PM	#7
vinterskugge Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 696	Maelwys1 wrote: 95% of raid encounters require a guard to be successful. Completely untrue. We've killed everything in this expansion except Mutagenic, and we've used a zerker to tank all of it.

04-30-2006, 08:26 PM	#8
uzhiel feathered serpe Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 461	Maelwys1 wrote: you're already the most defensive class in the game, and the best aggro maintaining class in the game, yet you want MORE? 95% of raid encounters require a guard to be successful. Making guards even more defensive and giving them more taunts would simply kill the majority of the other tanks in the game - reducing them to ONLY being viable as guard buffers and 2nd rate dps. There's already enough stigma out there against non guards. we don't need to widen the gap. That being said, I think you guys need another role when NOT in a primary MT position. I'd love to see you guys get an offensive stance that dramatically changes your role. Dropping your defense/mitigations down to something similar to a crusader, cancelling your reactive taunts, etc. but greatly improving your offensive skills/dps output. This would give the backup tank a reason for being taken on a raid, and for guards to be taken along on exp groups/instance runs when there are multiple tanks available. Thats where the guards are weak right now, having a purpose OTHER than MT'ing a raid. err......Paly offensive stance doesnt dramatically increase anything. It doesnt give procs, telekinesis, telepathy, and/or psionic abilities. IT does raise STRE and INT, and thats because paly damage is based off half nukes and half CA. In actually, when i turn on my OFF stance my nuke damage might go up by 10-15 points per nuke. Now, if they gave our OFF stance freakin laser beams or the ability to summon ill-tempered, mutated sea bass then I would agree.

04-30-2006, 09:32 AM	#1
Ena General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	We all know guardians got a hard time i liek tham but there are jsut some idees that might be interesting, 1 the Vanguard on EQ2 luanch was sweet yes but now that all can use it thay might aswell, but why not add another set like full plate or something like that with a new look and new helmet that only the guardian/berserkers can use be kinda interesting 2 strip 70% of our attack skills yes take tham away! and give us more short buffs like 100% dodge for 12 sec 100% repost 12 sec with reuse timers on 15 secones upgrade of skill upgrade off timer. 3 add stamina/wisdom to our defensiv line 4 add more taunts 1 or 2 more new lines be nice 5 give us aggro proc weapons for example: (t7 fable) 1hand slashing 100 hp 75 power 25 sta 25 str 25 wis proc: 5% proc rate: Anger I 100-150 taunt than. Anger II 200-250 and so on 6 give us a towershield with furys bash only in kite shields as a penelty: Whane used a successfull damage attack furys bash has a 10% proc rate of increasing threat of target by 250 7 Also add Repost as a passiv skill as Parry and Defense if you have 300 in Repost thare 1/5 of a chanse that you will repost incoming frontal attacks. 8 Also as a guardina i have notic that in a duo or trio group with lets say fury guard wizard its very easy to lose aggro easyer to lose aggro than a full group becorse of unbalanced dps but than make our Moderate skill (lower aggro on singel target) to a Group spell Hate transfer would be nice aswell but than i know a class who would not like it. 9 i have notic with higher gear that a guardian can easy go to 65% avoid or more, i think thats wrong. we shoul have that number cut in half as we are not a monk class but instead make a new mitigation system that even if you got 2000 (lets say 45%) mitigation in chain but than make it if you use plate and have 2000 mitigation you got let say (55% absorb) so you can say: plate 10% extra miti chain 5% leather 2.5% cloth 1.75% or something like that 10 Guardians intercept line and guardian sphere line should be remade for example: if you Guardian sphere and got a few mobs on you it will instantly kill you if mob hit on someother in group and after that the rest of the group die we should not take the damage more liek come and bash it away with our shield for example Mob 1 looks at caster 1 and charges whane hes just about to hit the caster the guardian steps infront of him and blocks his attack not taking it but block it 11 all know guardian utility buffs could use some small changes yes, + Defense great buff. HP buff very nice but could add some more HP on it. + Attack skills very nice to compensait for the lose in defens stance but than if you get last AA/AP skill in wisdom tree its just extra Atk i rather have a + Parry buff as + defense buff would be more suited for a guardian. And as you see i want to direct guardian more defensiv than its now. why? well if we look at our dps its crap look at our melee attack crap. But how will we be able to solo. Simple we DONT. but some wants sure than we got the stamian line AP/AA its very nice for extra dps whane soloing. But those who dont got Kingdom of sky? well abit hard to awnser maybe add something for our offense stance now it got + str + atk skills. why not make it like add 20% dubble attack 20% haste/dps str and a offensiv proc? not mutch but allways something right?

04-30-2006, 11:15 AM	#3
TanRaistlyn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 472	I want Invulnerability for 2minutes on a 2minute timer with 100percent agro skill...and I will settle for nothing less SOE, GET IT DONE!!!

04-30-2006, 12:51 PM	#6
TanRaistlyn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 472	still sticking with my previous post.

04-30-2006, 08:29 PM	#9
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	i dont think we need anything you've listed.We just need our protection line looked at.. everything else is fine. __________________ I heart DE Broads

05-01-2006, 01:46 AM	#10
Wabit Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 802	TanRaistlyn wrote: I want Invulnerability for 2minutes on a 2minute timer with 100percent agro skill...and I will settle for nothing less SOE, GET IT DONE!!! /agree add in 3k autoattack dps and i got no problems :smileysurprised: __________________ Wabit- 80 guardian Trixr- 70 carpenter - Oasis (part time Warden) Thoog- 80 monk - Oasis

05-01-2006, 06:10 AM	#11
digitalblasphemy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 274	Maelwys1 wrote: you're already the most defensive class in the game, and the best aggro maintaining class in the game, yet you want MORE? 95% of raid encounters require a guard to be successful. Making guards even more defensive and giving them more taunts would simply kill the majority of the other tanks in the game - reducing them to ONLY being viable as guard buffers and 2nd rate dps. There's already enough stigma out there against non guards. we don't need to widen the gap. That being said, I think you guys need another role when NOT in a primary MT position. I'd love to see you guys get an offensive stance that dramatically changes your role. Dropping your defense/mitigations down to something similar to a crusader, cancelling your reactive taunts, etc. but greatly improving your offensive skills/dps output. This would give the backup tank a reason for being taken on a raid, and for guards to be taken along on exp groups/instance runs when there are multiple tanks available. Thats where the guards are weak right now, having a purpose OTHER than MT'ing a raid. Best agro you say eh. I don't know how many times I've had a bruiser in my group doing some instanced zone. The bruiser isn't tanking, I am. Yet the bruiser, without using any of his taunts will peel off the mobs every single time. It took me ages to find out why. It's your taunting stance. The one that procs a taunt on the mob, but also a magical based proc nuke as well. With me going all out using my taunts, ca's, my tauting stance on, I'm losing agro every [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing time to a bruiser who has nothing on but his taunting stance so he can proc the extra magical dmg nuke.Don't post here and tell me we are the kings of agro. I can tell you matter of factly from my own personal experience, I've not seen that. As weird as it sounds, I hold agro better on raid mobs than in groups. In groups I just give up and let whoever has the agro keep it. This happened so often, our group let the warlock tank an instance and he did pretty good. Something just doesn't add up. I know I'm pumping out alot of hate via taunts, but it's not enough vs the dmg from bruisers,warlocks,swashbucklers etc. It's just strange.

05-01-2006, 07:07 AM	#12
Lyrus General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 236	My complaint about guardian offensive stance, is the fact that Str is so easy to cap, so the Str buff portion of it is useless, and I very rarely miss mobs, so additional weapon skill bonuses have no effect. Aside from that, the guardian class in my opinion is the dullest class to watch fight. Compression/swamp.....boot Icon, but ever since LU13, my guardian's too lazy to even lift his legs anymore. We even lost the old wild swing animation. What we're left with is the same 3 animations, which gets boring to watch over time. Pretty trivial complaints, but I can still wish to fight with a little more pizzaz can't I?

05-01-2006, 08:34 AM	#13
Crim001 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Somewhere in the middle of nowhere in So Cal Posts: 305	Only 2 things I really see wrong with the guard class- 1. Our stances compared with each other and when we aren't in a stance I personally believe that the off stance for us isn't that useful. The added str only adds a slight bit of dps, but it takes away from our defense, leaving us even more vulnerable then before. A solution could be to add a proc (such as the bruiser) or perhaps give us a slight dps/haste mod and reduce the amount of str on the stance. 2. The protection line ^^Needs no explanation __________________

05-01-2006, 09:32 AM	#14
Aaliamz Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: UK Posts: 54	Good point, our offensive stance could be useful for holding aggro but as my STR is capped half the time anyway it is of little use. So far I agree with many of the posters that our protection line needs looking at so that we use something other than ToS and stone sphere. (Also make the epic mobs in KoS actually hit the tank so a Guardian is sometimes needed to tank them!) __________________ Aaliamzen

05-02-2006, 10:58 PM	#15
Krooner Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 912	Maelwys1 wrote: you're already the most defensive class in the game, and the best aggro maintaining class in the game, yet you want MORE? 95% of raids ~~encounters require~~ use a ~~guard~~ ( WARRIOR ) to be successful. Making guards even more defensive and giving them more taunts would simply kill the majority of the other tanks in the game - reducing them to ONLY being viable as guard buffers and 2nd rate dps. There's already enough stigma out there against non guards. we don't need to widen the gap. That being said, I think you guys need another role when NOT in a primary MT position. I'd love to see you guys get an offensive stance that dramatically changes your role. Dropping your defense/mitigations down to something similar to a crusader, cancelling your reactive taunts, etc. but greatly improving your offensive skills/dps output. This would give the backup tank a reason for being taken on a raid, and for guards to be taken along on exp groups/instance runs when there are multiple tanks available. Thats where the guards are weak right now, having a purpose OTHER than MT'ing a raid. There ya go. Fixed your post for you. No charge.