The Great Nerfing of the Rangers and Improvements to EQ2

SenorPhrog · 03-07-2006, 07:05 PM

A couple of great articles if you have time to read....The Great Nerfing of the Rangers - After Coyote stirred up the Rangers with his comedy piece Savanja is thrown in to figure out what exactly did change. In this interview a few of the Rangers speak out.Spring Cleaning: Changes and Improvements - Change is a necessary evil in the world of MMOGs. Slide takes a look at how it affects the EverQuest 2 player for better or worse. Is there anything else the game needs that would help improve an already fun game? I'm sure we could find something.

TwistedFaith · 03-07-2006, 10:03 PM

Nice article, though I do think you missed out a lot of details surrounding the so called 'Great Nerfing'.Personally speaking I think the ranger situation is a great example of how not to treat your customers.Posts by SoE staff seemed to do more harm than good, with the wording of such posts coming across as very accusational in regards to players exploiting game mechanics.Then there was the often quoted 4000DPS that was used as some sort of justification for a all out nerf of the class. This was countered with claims that AA skills on beta were all of of whack and were skewing figures.And to close it all of we have timing of this happening, with stealth nerfs to many ranger skills that seem totally due to PvP balances.Overall the whole sitation leaves a very sour taste in the mouth. I know of a few long term players who have simply left the game feeling very bitter about the way SoE has treated them. They didnt leave because their class got 'nerfed' they left because of the way it was done.

Uumuuanu · 03-07-2006, 11:13 PM

Radar-X wrote:
A couple of great articles if you have time to read....The Great Nerfing of the Rangers - After Coyote stirred up the Rangers with his comedy piece Savanja is thrown in to figure out what exactly did change. In this interview a few of the Rangers speak out.Spring Cleaning: Changes and Improvements - Change is a necessary evil in the world of MMOGs. Slide takes a look at how it affects the EverQuest 2 player for better or worse. Is there anything else the game needs that would help improve an already fun game? I'm sure we could find something.

A wonderful article, however I am not sure it accomplishes what it may have been intended to accomplish as far as the rangers go. Reading through it, it appears that they can no longer solo mobs that no one else can solo, which doesn't seem a bad thing. As Savanja said in it ~No one should be able to solo yellow ^^^ mobs. Ever. Unless I can too.~ As a guardian, I can say as well as anyone I know what the nerfings can do. But honestly, I can say I would have been insanely over powered had LU13 not come along (I can say it now, I couldn't then because I was [Removed for Content] and stupid). Give you an example, had LU13 not come along, I would have nearly 9k hp self buffed (based on the curve that existed then), a mitigation of over 5k before buffs, probably 7k with, and nearly 90% avoidance, oh yeah and some MAJOR DPS, which would have made me easily able to solo any yellow^^^ out there and probably alot of named mobs as well (since I could do that pre-13).

Back to my point, I see so many of the comments in there saying ~now I have to work~ which to me means ~omg I actually have to do something other then go AFK and watch TV while on autoattack with the tank~. How do I know that? Well because I have had rangers that did it. But then I see comments like ~I don't have to worry about aggro now because I can't pull mobs off the tank like I could before~ and I wonder how in anyones mind that is bad? Well ok, I don't, having a troubador I used to like to steal aggro from the tank, I know its a scout thing. But realistically other then some oversized ego boost, it has no benefit and usually gets you killed. I personally have warned my rangers if you get aggro, the only way I am taking it back is when you are dead, not because I can't, but because I wanted them to control themselves and they did an awesome job at it.

In there I see a FEW (very few) CAs that need adjusted but at least one of them is NOT ranger specific and needs adjusted for all scouts (cheap shot). 2 seconds is simply not enough time to stun and get behind a mob, we all know that. But realistically, I don't see much esle that needs adjusted. I see complaints of being blocked and parried to death, but if the rangers step out of thier forums for a second, they will see that there is a 100+ reply thread going on right now about the parry/block/reposting of mobs in the expansion, so to me this isn't a ranger complaint.

I know, I know, you guys say what the heck does a guardian know about a ranger or a scout for that matter. Well, other then grouping with lots of them, having a level 30 ranger (who buy the way won me 5p for a bet that I could have him to 30 solo in less then 4RL days (about 20 hours of playtime)) and having a level 60 troubador, probably not alot. Which by the way reminds me, the fact that my little ranger could solo some of the things he could solo was well, amazing to say the least. I'm sure he can't solo them now which is fine with me.

As a final thought, I thought it was somewhat funny that she threw away her berzerker after 13 (yes I know it was low level). I guess at one point I was going to throw away my guardian too, but now 7 LUs later (maybe 8 if 21 goes live today/tomorrow) I think my guardian is just as much fun as he was pre-13. Had I taken the ditch him path (which I see alot of rangers wanting to do), I wouldn't be having nearly as much fun in the game, wouldn't be enjoying my guild and my groups nearly as well, and for that matter wouldn't be playing EQ any more. It's a lesson in learning how to adapt and how to ~work at doing damage~ instead of just letting the game play itself.

All in all, great article; it re-affirms my view that alot of rangers need a cooling down period, let a few of the little fixes that you guys have already been slated (I don't think guardians have had a major change since 13) and get back in the game and play. I know I would take a ranger in my group as DPS before the patch, and I will gladly take them into my group now.

SenorPhrog · 03-08-2006, 12:13 AM

Well to be fair, Savanja did pretty much what I asked her too in regards to the article. I wasn't really looking to detail every issue plaguing the Ranger. The purpose (in my mind at least) was to educate people on why the Rangers were so upset with the changes. The average player doesn't really understand Ranger AA's, poison procs, etc.... unless they play a scout class and I think Sav in her own cool way enlightened a little. Plus I didn't want them to think we just sit around at Ten Ton Hammer looking for people to poke at.I can't really blame her for tossing her Zerker, and I can remember when she did it. She wasn't having fun. She ended up rolling another class (Conjurer if I'm not mistakened) which was the first mage class she ever made, and had quite a bit of fun with it.All in all she did an awesome job in my mind. Much better than I could have.

Xebed · 03-08-2006, 12:14 AM

[ed: In fact, never mind....Community news isnt the place to debate this]

Message Edited by Xebed on 03-07-200607:14 PM

Savanja · 03-10-2006, 12:10 PM

I wasn't looking to debate on whether or not the Rangers *should* be nerfed. Irregardless of whether or not the changes were justified, and I do believe that the devs are doing their best to keep all classes playable, fun, and balanced, but it's just not easy having a class you've played through for so long, so drastically changed. It would be a shock to anyone.I simply wanted to provide a forum in which a few had the chance to speak out and be heard. And I'm happy that they did so.

Tarya · 03-10-2006, 06:57 PM

As a little side note... do you know some swashie that can solo yellow/orange triple ups??I can't even solo blue triple up... and green only when they are closing the range where they turn to grey... ah well... could be because I only have adept Is and armor made from rares... not adeptIIIs and fabled. But I hope that doesn't come now a norm that you HAVE to have those and then the rest of us can't play.Just concerned...MB

Star · 03-11-2006, 02:01 AM

Both were great articles (though I had to take a breath then re-read Coyote's I will admit SMILEY

).

03-07-2006, 07:05 PM	#1
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	A couple of great articles if you have time to read....The Great Nerfing of the Rangers - After Coyote stirred up the Rangers with his comedy piece Savanja is thrown in to figure out what exactly did change. In this interview a few of the Rangers speak out.Spring Cleaning: Changes and Improvements - Change is a necessary evil in the world of MMOGs. Slide takes a look at how it affects the EverQuest 2 player for better or worse. Is there anything else the game needs that would help improve an already fun game? I'm sure we could find something. __________________

03-07-2006, 11:13 PM	#3
Uumuuanu Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 355	Radar-X wrote: A couple of great articles if you have time to read....The Great Nerfing of the Rangers - After Coyote stirred up the Rangers with his comedy piece Savanja is thrown in to figure out what exactly did change. In this interview a few of the Rangers speak out.Spring Cleaning: Changes and Improvements - Change is a necessary evil in the world of MMOGs. Slide takes a look at how it affects the EverQuest 2 player for better or worse. Is there anything else the game needs that would help improve an already fun game? I'm sure we could find something. A wonderful article, however I am not sure it accomplishes what it may have been intended to accomplish as far as the rangers go. Reading through it, it appears that they can no longer solo mobs that no one else can solo, which doesn't seem a bad thing. As Savanja said in it ~No one should be able to solo yellow ^^^ mobs. Ever. Unless I can too.~ As a guardian, I can say as well as anyone I know what the nerfings can do. But honestly, I can say I would have been insanely over powered had LU13 not come along (I can say it now, I couldn't then because I was [Removed for Content] and stupid). Give you an example, had LU13 not come along, I would have nearly 9k hp self buffed (based on the curve that existed then), a mitigation of over 5k before buffs, probably 7k with, and nearly 90% avoidance, oh yeah and some MAJOR DPS, which would have made me easily able to solo any yellow^^^ out there and probably alot of named mobs as well (since I could do that pre-13). Back to my point, I see so many of the comments in there saying ~now I have to work~ which to me means ~omg I actually have to do something other then go AFK and watch TV while on autoattack with the tank~. How do I know that? Well because I have had rangers that did it. But then I see comments like ~I don't have to worry about aggro now because I can't pull mobs off the tank like I could before~ and I wonder how in anyones mind that is bad? Well ok, I don't, having a troubador I used to like to steal aggro from the tank, I know its a scout thing. But realistically other then some oversized ego boost, it has no benefit and usually gets you killed. I personally have warned my rangers if you get aggro, the only way I am taking it back is when you are dead, not because I can't, but because I wanted them to control themselves and they did an awesome job at it. In there I see a FEW (very few) CAs that need adjusted but at least one of them is NOT ranger specific and needs adjusted for all scouts (cheap shot). 2 seconds is simply not enough time to stun and get behind a mob, we all know that. But realistically, I don't see much esle that needs adjusted. I see complaints of being blocked and parried to death, but if the rangers step out of thier forums for a second, they will see that there is a 100+ reply thread going on right now about the parry/block/reposting of mobs in the expansion, so to me this isn't a ranger complaint. I know, I know, you guys say what the heck does a guardian know about a ranger or a scout for that matter. Well, other then grouping with lots of them, having a level 30 ranger (who buy the way won me 5p for a bet that I could have him to 30 solo in less then 4RL days (about 20 hours of playtime)) and having a level 60 troubador, probably not alot. Which by the way reminds me, the fact that my little ranger could solo some of the things he could solo was well, amazing to say the least. I'm sure he can't solo them now which is fine with me. As a final thought, I thought it was somewhat funny that she threw away her berzerker after 13 (yes I know it was low level). I guess at one point I was going to throw away my guardian too, but now 7 LUs later (maybe 8 if 21 goes live today/tomorrow) I think my guardian is just as much fun as he was pre-13. Had I taken the ditch him path (which I see alot of rangers wanting to do), I wouldn't be having nearly as much fun in the game, wouldn't be enjoying my guild and my groups nearly as well, and for that matter wouldn't be playing EQ any more. It's a lesson in learning how to adapt and how to ~work at doing damage~ instead of just letting the game play itself. All in all, great article; it re-affirms my view that alot of rangers need a cooling down period, let a few of the little fixes that you guys have already been slated (I don't think guardians have had a major change since 13) and get back in the game and play. I know I would take a ranger in my group as DPS before the patch, and I will gladly take them into my group now.

03-08-2006, 12:13 AM	#4
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	Well to be fair, Savanja did pretty much what I asked her too in regards to the article. I wasn't really looking to detail every issue plaguing the Ranger. The purpose (in my mind at least) was to educate people on why the Rangers were so upset with the changes. The average player doesn't really understand Ranger AA's, poison procs, etc.... unless they play a scout class and I think Sav in her own cool way enlightened a little. Plus I didn't want them to think we just sit around at Ten Ton Hammer looking for people to poke at.I can't really blame her for tossing her Zerker, and I can remember when she did it. She wasn't having fun. She ended up rolling another class (Conjurer if I'm not mistakened) which was the first mage class she ever made, and had quite a bit of fun with it.All in all she did an awesome job in my mind. Much better than I could have. __________________

03-10-2006, 12:10 PM	#6
Savanja Fansite Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 397	I wasn't looking to debate on whether or not the Rangers should be nerfed. Irregardless of whether or not the changes were justified, and I do believe that the devs are doing their best to keep all classes playable, fun, and balanced, but it's just not easy having a class you've played through for so long, so drastically changed. It would be a shock to anyone.I simply wanted to provide a forum in which a few had the chance to speak out and be heard. And I'm happy that they did so. __________________ ~Savanja~

03-10-2006, 06:57 PM	#7
Tarya Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 91	As a little side note... do you know some swashie that can solo yellow/orange triple ups??I can't even solo blue triple up... and green only when they are closing the range where they turn to grey... ah well... could be because I only have adept Is and armor made from rares... not adeptIIIs and fabled. But I hope that doesn't come now a norm that you HAVE to have those and then the rest of us can't play.Just concerned...MB __________________ Moonbell lvl 70 Swashbuckler/Carpenter Iriwen lvl 70 Warden, lvl 60 Tailor Infinity on Lucan deLere

03-07-2006, 10:03 PM	#2
TwistedFaith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 892	Nice article, though I do think you missed out a lot of details surrounding the so called 'Great Nerfing'.Personally speaking I think the ranger situation is a great example of how not to treat your customers.Posts by SoE staff seemed to do more harm than good, with the wording of such posts coming across as very accusational in regards to players exploiting game mechanics.Then there was the often quoted 4000DPS that was used as some sort of justification for a all out nerf of the class. This was countered with claims that AA skills on beta were all of of whack and were skewing figures.And to close it all of we have timing of this happening, with stealth nerfs to many ranger skills that seem totally due to PvP balances.Overall the whole sitation leaves a very sour taste in the mouth. I know of a few long term players who have simply left the game feeling very bitter about the way SoE has treated them. They didnt leave because their class got 'nerfed' they left because of the way it was done.

03-08-2006, 12:14 AM	#5
Xebed Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 55	[ed: In fact, never mind....Community news isnt the place to debate this] Message Edited by Xebed on 03-07-200607:14 PM

03-11-2006, 02:01 AM	#8
Star Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 481	Both were great articles (though I had to take a breath then re-read Coyote's I will admit ). __________________