Heroic tree, Critical Bulwark AA---What would you like?

[Tekadeo]

With Crit Mit going the way of the Dodo, what would you like to see in place of it on our Heroic AA Critical Bulwark?

As always I would like to see something unique, and I'm going to be disappointed if they make it a HP temp buff.  I'm all for HP buffs, but as a temp buff it would be weak and not really add much to the game.  IF they wanted to make it a permanent HP buff, awesome.

But let's see what we can come up with and maybe try to sway some devs' thinking on what we could get here.  What could be something unique defensively for us to have here?  A group AoE avoid?  Wouldn't help us much, but would be great for group.  Damage Reduction?  Too similar to the Hunker Down AA right next to it.

Keep in mind that this will be and should be a defensive buff to go along with the mit buff it's attached to.

[Talathion]

We have some of the worst heroic AA in the game, (besides that for raiding.).

Its going to have to be something different.

How about "Increases the damage and threat done by Autoattacks."

[Tekadeo]

Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:

We have some of the worst heroic AA in the game, (besides that for raiding.).

Its going to have to be something different.

How about "Increases the damage and threat done by Autoattacks."

Dear God please no---go away Tala we dont want your input

[Talathion]

Tekadeo wrote:

Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:

We have some of the worst heroic AA in the game, (besides that for raiding.).

Its going to have to be something different.

How about "Increases the damage and threat done by Autoattacks."

Dear God please no---go away Tala we dont want your input

I love my ideas.

[Destraum]

Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I love my ideas.

Your ideas are just as good as a Liberals.  So good they have to be Mandatory.

[Gungo]

My idea reverse it Instead of damage reduction temp buff.Zerkers are suppose to be the better AOE tank then guards. They are suppose to tank AOE mobs better. How about an blue AOE melee damage reduction DEBUFF. This way all the adds you hit do less physical damage. Its also unique as the ONLY AOE melee damage reduction debuff in game. Just tie it to one of your AOE atks.

The only issue this would be a heroic AA shared by guards, but thats not such a bad thing.

[Talathion]

Gungo@Crushbone wrote:

My idea reverse it Instead of damage reduction temp buff.Zerkers are suppose to be the better AOE tank then guards. They are suppose to tank AOE mobs better. How about an blue AOE melee damage reduction DEBUFF. This way all the adds you hit do less physical damage. Its also unique as the ONLY AOE melee damage reduction debuff in game. Just tie it to one of your AOE atks.

The only issue this would be a heroic AA shared by guards, but thats not such a bad thing.

Or AOE Damage Reduction. (or is that the same thing?)

[Coopendor]

Tekadeo wrote:

With Crit Mit going the way of the Dodo, what would you like to see in place of it on our Heroic AA Critical Bulwark?

As always I would like to see something unique, and I'm going to be disappointed if they make it a HP temp buff.  I'm all for HP buffs, but as a temp buff it would be weak and not really add much to the game.  IF they wanted to make it a permanent HP buff, awesome.

But let's see what we can come up with and maybe try to sway some devs' thinking on what we could get here.  What could be something unique defensively for us to have here?  A group AoE avoid?  Wouldn't help us much, but would be great for group.  Damage Reduction?  Too similar to the Hunker Down AA right next to it.

Keep in mind that this will be and should be a defensive buff to go along with the mit buff it's attached to.

How about something to eliminate the power drain that comes from adrenaline?? 

[Destraum]

Coopendor wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

With Crit Mit going the way of the Dodo, what would you like to see in place of it on our Heroic AA Critical Bulwark?

As always I would like to see something unique, and I'm going to be disappointed if they make it a HP temp buff.  I'm all for HP buffs, but as a temp buff it would be weak and not really add much to the game.  IF they wanted to make it a permanent HP buff, awesome.

But let's see what we can come up with and maybe try to sway some devs' thinking on what we could get here.  What could be something unique defensively for us to have here?  A group AoE avoid?  Wouldn't help us much, but would be great for group.  Damage Reduction?  Too similar to the Hunker Down AA right next to it.

Keep in mind that this will be and should be a defensive buff to go along with the mit buff it's attached to.

How about something to eliminate the power drain that comes from adrenaline?? 

We already have that....it's called an enchanter class.  There are also 2 red adorns that pretty much make adrenaline's power drain non-existent as well.

Since it deals with group damage reduction, maybe an ability that procs a group reactive heal on inc damage.  Not necessarily a ward, but something similar to our Battle Frenzy, but group wide.  Something in the area of 3 to 5 triggers of say maybe 5-10% heals.  Being that it would be up nearly every 40 seconds, it would have to be small enough to not be OP, but definately something that would be of added benefit to casting. 

[Netty]

Roehl@Guk wrote:

Coopendor wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

With Crit Mit going the way of the Dodo, what would you like to see in place of it on our Heroic AA Critical Bulwark?

As always I would like to see something unique, and I'm going to be disappointed if they make it a HP temp buff.  I'm all for HP buffs, but as a temp buff it would be weak and not really add much to the game.  IF they wanted to make it a permanent HP buff, awesome.

But let's see what we can come up with and maybe try to sway some devs' thinking on what we could get here.  What could be something unique defensively for us to have here?  A group AoE avoid?  Wouldn't help us much, but would be great for group.  Damage Reduction?  Too similar to the Hunker Down AA right next to it.

Keep in mind that this will be and should be a defensive buff to go along with the mit buff it's attached to.

How about something to eliminate the power drain that comes from adrenaline?? 

We already have that....it's called an enchanter class.  There are also 2 red adorns that pretty much make adrenaline's power drain non-existent as well.

Since it deals with group damage reduction, maybe an ability that procs a group reactive heal on inc damage.  Not necessarily a ward, but something similar to our Battle Frenzy, but group wide.  Something in the area of 3 to 5 triggers of say maybe 5-10% heals.  Being that it would be up nearly every 40 seconds, it would have to be small enough to not be OP, but definately something that would be of added benefit to casting. 

That or a groupwide ward. I like your idea. But im thinking something to reduce the inc damage on the group somehow that would be cool. Damage reduction on the group is another nice idea. And that will even help the guardian being abit better at protecting their group (not that they need that much more help) But it would balance them abit better vs brawlers.

[Soul_Dreamer]

250 hp ward every point, last point grants group wide NONE fighter deathsave. Total of a 2500 ward and deathsave. Just my idea (guardian)

[Soul_Dreamer]

Hmmm, iPhone doesn't like anything except quick reply... Group wide death save is probably too op but it wouldn't let me edit. Maybe give the deathsave 2 triggers so it can only save 2 people. Whatever thy do though, the current hp change blows.

[Yimway]

Being heroic, its the wrong place to add something specific to zerkers.

[Netty]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Being heroic, its the wrong place to add something specific to zerkers.

Im not saying you are wrong. But fix it to a ward or what ever would help to balance guards abit better vs brawlers aswell. We all know brawlers are the kings of taking damage atm. Guards should be very defensiv aswell but protect the group/raid and with this it would bring them inline and help zerks abit aswell. However zerks needs so many changes that this will do close to nothing to do i agree with that. But it still would be worth fixing to something good.

Guards can tank anything atm i agree but they still need a small bump in protecting the group imo since thats their thing atm and since stonecold is so super... making the groupwide mit buff into something like add a ward or damage reduction would even it out.

[Bruener]

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

[Tekadeo]

Bruener wrote:

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

More trolling ftw, eh Bruener?  Maybe they "crossed the line" by giving non-warriors the ability to use tower shields?

But seriously, I would love to have the old Adrenaline back.  Honestly this class has been the worst Fighter in the game since they nerfed Adrenaline for no reason and gave us nothing but a LOL in return.

[Bruener]

Tekadeo wrote:

Bruener wrote:

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

More trolling ftw, eh Bruener?  Maybe they "crossed the line" by giving non-warriors the ability to use tower shields?

But seriously, I would love to have the old Adrenaline back.  Honestly this class has been the worst Fighter in the game since they nerfed Adrenaline for no reason and gave us nothing but a LOL in return.

Never ceases to amaze me how dumb some people are.

[Aull]

Tekadeo wrote:

Bruener wrote:

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

More trolling ftw, eh Bruener?  Maybe they "crossed the line" by giving non-warriors the ability to use tower shields?

But seriously, I would love to have the old Adrenaline back.  Honestly this class has been the worst Fighter in the game since they nerfed Adrenaline for no reason and gave us nothing but a LOL in return.

If I remember correctly when the game originally launched guards were the only plate fighter that could wear the strongest/heaviest armor of that time. Now all plates can wear armor just as durable as the other. I know many will state that it made guards to strong while other fighters lagged behind defensively. If that is the case then why didn't players roll a guardian if being tough was so important?

I agree with Bruener as well. My zerker should have never received any type of heal/ward no matter how big or small cause that is not what zerker are about. Zerkers should have never become self healers. They sure didn't have it in the beginning and they shouldn't have it now.

Crossing the lines is what borked the fighter individuality all up. I seen this coming when bruisers received a tsunami type ability with their mythical years ago. Then sk's got furor or whatever it is called. In all honesty no other fighter should have received a tsunami spin off ability even if that fighter subclass sucked defensively. Tsunami should have been monk only and stayed that way. If other fighters wanted tsunami then they should have rolled a monk. But that is yesterday and not today.

I noticed that new games that come out give far better descriptions of what is expected of each class in that particular game. I think other mmo companies seen where eqII messed up and made sure to move around these mistakes.

[LygerT]

Bruener wrote:

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

kidding me? this class used to be based on health regeneration(for many many years in fact and then it turned to heal procs and DR as mobs started hitting harder and harder), ie a heal over time class. of course it was a joke but that is what it was.

you must be a cutter, as you go around picking fights with the most ignorant arguments known to man.

[Tekadeo]

Bruener wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

Bruener wrote:

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

More trolling ftw, eh Bruener?  Maybe they "crossed the line" by giving non-warriors the ability to use tower shields?

But seriously, I would love to have the old Adrenaline back.  Honestly this class has been the worst Fighter in the game since they nerfed Adrenaline for no reason and gave us nothing but a LOL in return.

Never ceases to amaze me how dumb some people are.

Color me confused on how anything I said was "dumb"?  You made the ridiculous inference that Crusaders should be the only Fighters who heal, when Berserkers have had HP regen and HP procs since launch too.  Ridiculous claims are ridiculous.

And if you think there isnt 100% truth behind my second statement, it's time for you to hang it up. 

All you do is complain about SK's, when in reality the last two fixes to come your way were -exactly- what you were asking for (Strikethrough and a HP buff).  Zerkers have been given nothing that they ask for in years.

[Tekadeo]

Lyger@Permafrost wrote:

Bruener wrote:

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

kidding me? this class used to be based on health regeneration(for many many years in fact and then it turned to heal procs and DR as mobs started hitting harder and harder), ie a heal over time class. of course it was a joke but that is what it was.

you must be a cutter, as you go around picking fights with the most ignorant arguments known to man.

^This

[Aull]

I will stand corrected on this but I do not remember my zerker having hp regen and proc in the beginning. Again I could be totally wrong here but I really don't remember that. With all the changes I am sure just have me confused.

I agree with Tekadeo that I would like to just have adrenaline back the way it was.

[Bruener]

Tekadeo wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

Bruener wrote:

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

More trolling ftw, eh Bruener?  Maybe they "crossed the line" by giving non-warriors the ability to use tower shields?

But seriously, I would love to have the old Adrenaline back.  Honestly this class has been the worst Fighter in the game since they nerfed Adrenaline for no reason and gave us nothing but a LOL in return.

Never ceases to amaze me how dumb some people are.

Color me confused on how anything I said was "dumb"?  You made the ridiculous inference that Crusaders should be the only Fighters who heal, when Berserkers have had HP regen and HP procs since launch too.  Ridiculous claims are ridiculous.

And if you think there isnt 100% truth behind my second statement, it's time for you to hang it up. 

All you do is complain about SK's, when in reality the last two fixes to come your way were -exactly- what you were asking for (Strikethrough and a HP buff).  Zerkers have been given nothing that they ask for in years.

Well it seems like you and your cronies here can't say anything useful at all....as usual.  I really don't care about the health "regen" that was a constant complaint for Zerkers from the beginning, which btw EVERY SINGLE class in the game has.

Both warriors were about temp buffs more than anything.  Specifically temp mit type buffs.  These made a big difference in the past and were supposed to be what Crusader heals were balanced against, although they were far from balanced.

It is extremely "dumb" that as a Zerker a few of you are asking for wards and heals.  There are a huge list on better mechanics that would fit a Zerker role way better...and yet you ask for heals?  If you want lame heals I really hope that is what they give you.  It would be just great to see you get some 1k heal proc for the group and than we can really watch you guys whine at how ineffective that is.

Wards and heals.  You have got to be kidding me.  I recommend something useful and you cry babies get up in arms and flame as if Zerkers should be doing all sorts of healing now.

And no, Adrenaline should not be made OP'd again.  It was nerfed for a reason.  Unfortunately OP'd Brawlers make that reason seem pretty lame right now, but that is just more proof in how much Brawlers need to be brought back into line.  Unfortunately for all of us Fighters DYoD and other fluff junk is too important for development right now.

[Destraum]

Bruener wrote:

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

You must have forgotten Bruener that one of the biggest abilities for Zerker was their self-healing abilities.  Like SK's and Paly's, it's what helps them survive the fights.  Albiet, both SK's and Paly's abilities are more of a proactive rather than a reactive like a Zerkers.  This is where I think Zerks got hit the hardest when SOE removed critical healing.  So, asking for something small in return I don't think was to far out of line.

And yeah Atan, I realized later that day after I had posted that what i suggested was more Zerk specific and wouldn't work due to that.  Hard to get out of the mindset sometimes when your in it.

[LygerT]

Bruener wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

Bruener wrote:

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

More trolling ftw, eh Bruener?  Maybe they "crossed the line" by giving non-warriors the ability to use tower shields?

But seriously, I would love to have the old Adrenaline back.  Honestly this class has been the worst Fighter in the game since they nerfed Adrenaline for no reason and gave us nothing but a LOL in return.

Never ceases to amaze me how dumb some people are.

Color me confused on how anything I said was "dumb"?  You made the ridiculous inference that Crusaders should be the only Fighters who heal, when Berserkers have had HP regen and HP procs since launch too.  Ridiculous claims are ridiculous.

And if you think there isnt 100% truth behind my second statement, it's time for you to hang it up. 

All you do is complain about SK's, when in reality the last two fixes to come your way were -exactly- what you were asking for (Strikethrough and a HP buff).  Zerkers have been given nothing that they ask for in years.

Well it seems like you and your cronies here can't say anything useful at all....as usual.  I really don't care about the health "regen" that was a constant complaint for Zerkers from the beginning, which btw EVERY SINGLE class in the game has.

Both warriors were about temp buffs more than anything.  Specifically temp mit type buffs.  These made a big difference in the past and were supposed to be what Crusader heals were balanced against, although they were far from balanced.

It is extremely "dumb" that as a Zerker a few of you are asking for wards and heals.  There are a huge list on better mechanics that would fit a Zerker role way better...and yet you ask for heals?  If you want lame heals I really hope that is what they give you.  It would be just great to see you get some 1k heal proc for the group and than we can really watch you guys whine at how ineffective that is.

Wards and heals.  You have got to be kidding me.  I recommend something useful and you cry babies get up in arms and flame as if Zerkers should be doing all sorts of healing now.

And no, Adrenaline should not be made OP'd again.  It was nerfed for a reason.  Unfortunately OP'd Brawlers make that reason seem pretty lame right now, but that is just more proof in how much Brawlers need to be brought back into line.  Unfortunately for all of us Fighters DYoD and other fluff junk is too important for development right now.

yes there is mechanics that would work to suit some tanks better but not for others, once again you continually just think of yourself.

adrenaline was one of the decent abilities that made this class viable for a short while, every class has had it's decent and great abilities including the SK. too bad your skull is too thick to ever admit it.

[Netty]

Bruener wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

Bruener wrote:

I would prefer to see something NOT a heal/ward of any type.  They have already crossed the line too much giving non-Crusader's heal/ward type abilities.

Damage reduction would be nice.

More trolling ftw, eh Bruener?  Maybe they "crossed the line" by giving non-warriors the ability to use tower shields?

But seriously, I would love to have the old Adrenaline back.  Honestly this class has been the worst Fighter in the game since they nerfed Adrenaline for no reason and gave us nothing but a LOL in return.

Never ceases to amaze me how dumb some people are.

Color me confused on how anything I said was "dumb"?  You made the ridiculous inference that Crusaders should be the only Fighters who heal, when Berserkers have had HP regen and HP procs since launch too.  Ridiculous claims are ridiculous.

And if you think there isnt 100% truth behind my second statement, it's time for you to hang it up. 

All you do is complain about SK's, when in reality the last two fixes to come your way were -exactly- what you were asking for (Strikethrough and a HP buff).  Zerkers have been given nothing that they ask for in years.

Well it seems like you and your cronies here can't say anything useful at all....as usual.  I really don't care about the health "regen" that was a constant complaint for Zerkers from the beginning, which btw EVERY SINGLE class in the game has.

Both warriors were about temp buffs more than anything.  Specifically temp mit type buffs.  These made a big difference in the past and were supposed to be what Crusader heals were balanced against, although they were far from balanced.

It is extremely "dumb" that as a Zerker a few of you are asking for wards and heals.  There are a huge list on better mechanics that would fit a Zerker role way better...and yet you ask for heals?  If you want lame heals I really hope that is what they give you.  It would be just great to see you get some 1k heal proc for the group and than we can really watch you guys whine at how ineffective that is.

Wards and heals.  You have got to be kidding me.  I recommend something useful and you cry babies get up in arms and flame as if Zerkers should be doing all sorts of healing now.

And no, Adrenaline should not be made OP'd again.  It was nerfed for a reason.  Unfortunately OP'd Brawlers make that reason seem pretty lame right now, but that is just more proof in how much Brawlers need to be brought back into line.  Unfortunately for all of us Fighters DYoD and other fluff junk is too important for development right now.

Adrenaline was not OP as you claim. Since zerks kinda much have nothing els than that one in the past. Sure it was powerfull but compare SK AB:s vs zerk. It was not OP. That fact that SK:s get the same effect with out the power drain on the myth cloak makes me laugh about your statement. And the way that this game is heading. Soe is making it clear that dont dont care about the free classes. So i bet we will see more good stuff inc for the none free classes.

Ppl are talking about ONE ability here ONE! with the AA that is getting changed in the heroic tree. Thats why you see stuff like wardens and so on since we share that one with guardians. More heals wont do much for this class. iagree  with that. But this thread is not about how to fix the class.

[Beko]

Ward of Rage - 250-290 point ward. [ this procs mostly when i'm hit, meaning I have to sacrifice block chance, additionally this only would proc once on one melee attack, and it does not count flurrys and multiattacks.]

This wards me for 164x less then my current health pool.

Blood Rage, 33% chance when hit with a melee attack. [this is not counting flurrys/multi-attacks, meaning I could be hit with a melee attack and 3 attacks from flurry and 2 multiattacks and this would only go off once, which really doesn't say much about the class itself, its very squishy, also since I have to get hit for this to work, it makes stacking other defenses harder for my class, I literally have to sacrifice all my block chance to get this to actually heal me, and its really not worth it.] - heals for 1k.

This heals me for 46x less then my current health pool.

These are my primary base healing buffs, as you can see they are not really good, as you can see, because we have to get hit to even have this healing, we cannot even use a shield if we want it, and why would you not want to use a shield for something that heals so piddly.

[Gungo]

Bruener wrote:

And no, Adrenaline should not be made OP'd again.  It was nerfed for a reason.  Unfortunately OP'd Brawlers make that reason seem pretty lame right now, but that is just more proof in how much Brawlers need to be brought back into line.  Unfortunately for all of us Fighters DYoD and other fluff junk is too important for development right now.

So adrenaline(40% dam reduction temp with a massive power drain) is to overpowered for a zerker but its not overpowered for a shadowknight (myth cloak 40% damage reduction temp with an aoe rescue).No bias here at all. Its not like shadowknights are currently already better then zerkers. O wait they are that too.

P.s. to be clear before bruener tries to spin his lies I dont think the sk myth cloak is OP nor do i think a return of damage reduction to adrenaline in some form (at least 25%) is OP as well.

[Bruener]

Gungo@Crushbone wrote:

Bruener wrote:

And no, Adrenaline should not be made OP'd again.  It was nerfed for a reason.  Unfortunately OP'd Brawlers make that reason seem pretty lame right now, but that is just more proof in how much Brawlers need to be brought back into line.  Unfortunately for all of us Fighters DYoD and other fluff junk is too important for development right now.

So adrenaline(40% dam reduction temp with a massive power drain) is to overpowered for a zerker but its not overpowered for a shadowknight (myth cloak 40% damage reduction temp with an aoe rescue).No bias here at all. Its not like shadowknights are currently already better then zerkers. O wait they are that too.

P.s. to be clear before bruener tries to spin his lies I dont think the sk myth cloak is OP nor do i think a return of damage reduction to adrenaline in some form (at least 25%) is OP as well.

Now I understand why Gungo makes mistakes like this...I mean he is just a terrible player.  But others too?  Let me make it real simple and point out the obvious flaws in the aboves argument.

Duration : Adrenaline Pre-DoV - app. 32 seconds ; SK Mythical in PoW - 8 seconds

Reuse : Adrenaline Pre-DoV - app 1 min ; SK Mythical in PoW - 3 minutes unmodifiable

Damage Reduction : Adrenaline Pre-DoV - 50% ; SK Mythical in PoW - 40%

I mean really guys, talk about one huge, giant stretch.  1/4 the duration, 1/3 of the recast capability, and 10% less damage reduction.  And people say that that cloak is too much and you still wonder why they changed Adrenaline?  Again I don't agree with what they did to Adrenaline, but something needed to be done and it should have been done back in SF beta when it was pointed out how often the ability could be up.  Recommendation back than was to shorten the duration and extend the reuse.

All I did is recommend not some crappy heal for Zerkers on Critical Bulwark and instead something better like Damage Reduction which would be not only more beneficial but also more in-line for Zerkers.  You get a couple Zerkers that obviously just luv having heals that do jack in the game for them, one zerker that hasn't played his zerker in like 2 years, and of course the token Bruiser who will join any argument to deflect away from him playing one of the most OP'd tank classes the game has ever seen for the last 2 years going strong.

But by all means maybe SOE will give you guys exactly what you ask for with some 1k heal proc....seriously.

[Beko]

Every heal in the game that does not heal atleast 10% of your health/health over time or ward atleast 5% should be revamped or changed to something else.

Also, currently I wish ward of rage was changed to critical bonus (5% for the group while berserk with full aa.), and Blood Rage was changed to damage reduction and a max health buff.

Berserkers should not get healing abilities.

Then again, I also wish juggernaut was not useless, but we don't always get what we want.