A Plea on Overland Zones in Velious and Beyond

[Zabjade]

Rather than Necro the old Thread topic I'll  create a new one...

Please give us wide open ranges, please no more outdoor mazes in overland zones!  It also gives Mobs room to roam and allows people to practice the forgotten arts of kiting and reverse-kiting!

Also, seeing large open areas is much more immersive to game and role-play.

[Cusashorn]

Zabjade wrote:

Rather than Necro the old Thread topic I'll  create a new one...

Please give us wide open ranges, please no more outdoor mazes in overland zones!  It also gives Mobs room to roam and allows people to practice the forgotten arts of kiting and reverse-kiting!

Also, seeing large open areas is much more immersive to game and role-play.

This game's combat engine was designed to do away with kiting alltogether, though players still found a way to do it. Lets not encourage them to keep trying, but the lands should be wide open places and not semi-mazes with impassable mountains making up 90% of the zone.

[Lady Shai]

Cusashorn wrote:

Zabjade wrote:

Rather than Necro the old Thread topic I'll  create a new one...

Please give us wide open ranges, please no more outdoor mazes in overland zones!  It also gives Mobs room to roam and allows people to practice the forgotten arts of kiting and reverse-kiting!

Also, seeing large open areas is much more immersive to game and role-play.

This game's combat engine was designed to do away with kiting alltogether, though players still found a way to do it. Lets not encourage them to keep trying, but the lands should be wide open places and not semi-mazes with impassable mountains making up 90% of the zone.

Personally I don't miss kiting much....at least for me it was rather boring.  And yes I had classes that could do it and do it well.  I am more of a group/raid type person anyway..and when I soloed I rarely kited unless I was bored lol My husband tho? He loved it ...and i loved watching him do it too cos he had fun.

I am seriously hoping that they bring back the vastness and massiveness that were the Velious outdoor zones. Especially if we are getting flying mounts....it would totally suck to jump on your mount and be there at opposite zoneline in like 25 seconds or so. Bring back the sense of grandeur that was Velious...the game has been dumbed down enough for travel as it is...please bring back the BIG zones the way the Karanas were or Velious in old EQ please. Add bells if you must...but for those of us who want the experience, give us the large zones.

Let us be able to fly OVER some mountains and not have them be completely impassable Give us a message that  "the air is too turbulent to let your mount fly here" messages if you must but give us some way to cross them.

[Gilasil]

No Kiting!

It's an EXPLOIT.  It always was an exploit, they just gave up trying to stop it.

[NrthnStar5]

I  like mountains you can actually climb up to, with hidden trails to take you deep inside the mountains. Kunark was the only xpac that really offered this. Sometimes world design in eq2 has been pitiful. Too much lovely scenary that is completely in-accessible.

I always wanted to go up on that massive cliff in Fens lol

[Wigg]

It's an exploit to give people roots and snares so they can move while killing and not get caught?? must be because thats what kiting is.  

[Trevalon]

Gilasil wrote:

No Kiting!

It's an EXPLOIT.  It always was an exploit, they just gave up trying to stop it.

Kiting was never considered an exploit by Sony at anytime of the life of EQ1...what are you talking about?

[Cusashorn]

Trevalon wrote:

Gilasil wrote:

No Kiting!

It's an EXPLOIT.  It always was an exploit, they just gave up trying to stop it.

Kiting was never considered an exploit by Sony at anytime of the life of EQ1...what are you talking about?

Actually it was. EQlive's combat engine set a precedent for many new things in gaming. The developers NEVER anticipated that players would us how the environment worked to just run around and let damage over time spells, arrows, throwing weapons, and such to whittle down the enemy. It was never intended, but also never anticipated. It was an exploit because it was never intended, but there was nothing they could do about it and chose to just leave it be. They eventually put countermeasures on certain mobs by having them summon you to them.

[Zabjade]

Ok Forget the Kiting.

Still I would love vast Zones!

[Trevalon]

Cusashorn wrote:

Trevalon wrote:

Gilasil wrote:

No Kiting!

It's an EXPLOIT.  It always was an exploit, they just gave up trying to stop it.

Kiting was never considered an exploit by Sony at anytime of the life of EQ1...what are you talking about?

Actually it was. EQlive's combat engine set a precedent for many new things in gaming. The developers NEVER anticipated that players would us how the environment worked to just run around and let damage over time spells, arrows, throwing weapons, and such to whittle down the enemy. It was never intended, but also never anticipated. It was an exploit because it was never intended, but there was nothing they could do about it and chose to just leave it be. They eventually put countermeasures on certain mobs by having them summon you to them.

It may not have been intended but it was never an exploit.  I know this because I have...knowledge of the policies of Sony at the time of release through many years after release.  In fact I have a copy of those rules at my house right now (Dunno why I keep em).  Kiting, while it may not have been anticipated, was not something that was a warnable, suspendable, or banable offense in the game - exploits are classified exploits because they are just such offenses.  So no, it was not an "exploit."

[Carpediem]

Gilasil wrote:

No Kiting!

It's an EXPLOIT.  It always was an exploit, they just gave up trying to stop it.

Why would they give rangers 4 different snares if kiting were an exploit?

[Darkor]

Kiting was NEVER an exploit. Using bad pathing and bad areas with wrong pathing is an exploit. Rooting or snaring the mob and kill him over time was one of plenty ways to kill mobs legit.

[Wullail]

Ahhh yes , the joys of playing a necro in one of the planes in EQ1 , getting agro using the snare dots and kiting those mobs in the cave while the rest of the group DPS'd the mob down...then going and grabbing another....good days...good old days!

[Cusashorn]

Ajjantis wrote:

Kiting was NEVER an exploit. Using bad pathing and bad areas with wrong pathing is an exploit. Rooting or snaring the mob and kill him over time was one of plenty ways to kill mobs legit.

Only because the developers admitted there was nothing they could do to stop it from happening in the game, now that players found out that they could.

[Shemyaza]

NrthnStar5 wrote:

I  like mountains you can actually climb up to, with hidden trails to take you deep inside the mountains. 

this is one of the things vanguard did best. the game might have its problems, but it had the best landscape of any mmo i've played.

[Shemyaza]

Cusashorn wrote:

 The developers NEVER anticipated...

it's a great pity that every mmo since eq has been micromanaged to avoid stuff like this.

[Rijacki]

One of the reasons kiting was possible in EQ1 was the fact there are very very very few mobs in most areas. There are clusters, sure, but there are a lot of wide open areas without any mobs for quite a distance and the mobs don't leash like they do in EQ2. So... you can drag mobs to an area where it is open and gleefully kit them without fear of adds.

When they bring Velious to EQ2, I hope there are a lot more mobs and mob spawns than there are in EQ1. I've been playing a bit, off and on, with a new character there and going to old stomping grounds as well as trying new places.

For a 'reminder' on what Eastern Wastes is like... I took these just this morning (while making this post, as a matter of fact):

Rijac is a level 45 bard on FV, created on 13 July 2010 with a total play time of 4 days, 13 hours, and 2 minutes (at the time of the screenshots) and not all of that was directly in leveling. Yes, leveling is now -that fast- in EQ1, at least in the "lower levels".

(as a side note, her brass playing is really horrid and that one song she's trying to sing is.. a pita)

[Trevalon]

^^^ your only 45 after 4 days played? Lord in 4 days played in EQ1 its easy to be at least 65 or 70 now.

[Rijacki]

Trevalon wrote:

^^^ your only 45 after 4 days played? Lord in 4 days played in EQ1 its easy to be at least 65 or 70 now.

Did I mention I play extremely casually.. as in.. I leave my character standing around at times doing nothing (drat, forgot to start up brass again) while I do other things like forums.. and I prop her up in the bazaar from time to time, too. All that adds up *laugh*. I'm not trying to powerlevel, I never do.

But leveling in EQ1 used to be so.. well.. not THIS fast. I remember spending weeks in EW, not an hour or two.

[Ahlana]

Rijacki wrote:

Trevalon wrote:

^^^ your only 45 after 4 days played? Lord in 4 days played in EQ1 its easy to be at least 65 or 70 now.

Did I mention I play extremely casually.. as in.. I leave my character standing around at times doing nothing (drat, forgot to start up brass again) while I do other things like forums.. and I prop her up in the bazaar from time to time, too. All that adds up *laugh*. I'm not trying to powerlevel, I never do.

But leveling in EQ1 used to be so.. well.. not THIS fast. I remember spending weeks in EW, not an hour or two.

With how daunting EQ1 is now to a player starting fresh or returning.. and all the levels and 1000's of AAs, they needed to speed part of it up.. and it is always the beginning that suffers as everyone else is in the end game. Esspecially in EQ1 that isn't as heavily quest driven...

That said it really slows down post 70ish as far as levels go

[Darkor]

Cusashorn wrote:

Ajjantis wrote:

Kiting was NEVER an exploit. Using bad pathing and bad areas with wrong pathing is an exploit. Rooting or snaring the mob and kill him over time was one of plenty ways to kill mobs legit.

Only because the developers admitted there was nothing they could do to stop it from happening in the game, now that players found out that they could.

This is completely wrong. They could do something against it and they did. Later on most important nameds were snare/root immune. They just didnt care if people grinded hours and hours by kiting mobs or killing nameds which took people 2-3 hrs to do perfect kiting.

[Pervis]

Cusashorn wrote:

Ajjantis wrote:

Kiting was NEVER an exploit. Using bad pathing and bad areas with wrong pathing is an exploit. Rooting or snaring the mob and kill him over time was one of plenty ways to kill mobs legit.

Only because the developers admitted there was nothing they could do to stop it from happening in the game, now that players found out that they could.

They could add ranged spells to mobs... its not like the mechanic doesn't exist.

The ability to kite is in game because some people like kiting.

[ke'la]

While I agree I would like to see more open land, you also have to remember alot of the coolest looking formations IRL are in effect land mazes, like more or less any and every canyon, and places like Yosemite Valley. And while yes you "CAN" climb Half Dome, it is not really recomended unless your an experianced Backpacker.

I would however love to have the ablity to get to the top of those caynons wich generally are relitivly flat, as well as run around inside them.

[Zabjade]

kela wrote:

While I agree I would like to see more open land, you also have to remember alot of the coolest looking formations IRL are in effect land mazes, like more or less any and every canyon, and places like Yosemite Valley. And while yes you "CAN" climb Half Dome, it is not really recomended unless your an experianced Backpacker.

I would however love to have the ablity to get to the top of those caynons wich generally are relitivly flat, as well as run around inside them.

I have no problem with the occasional land-maze, problem is we already have too many. I would love some more wide open land. It gives a sense of depth and RP immersion.

I guess part of me remembers getting lost in South Karana or trying to find my way through the  two Velious Zones I knew.

I'm not asking for flat-zones; hills, vales, climbables, even rivers, and trees (evergreens please dead ones like in New Halas look wrong) just not a fan of navigating outdoor dungeons, I'll go into a contested for those

[Zabjade]

Another reason for Overland zones that are vast are these New flying mounts (BTW would rather fly my Sokakar or Carpet then a griffin) Once you are up in the sky you will see the land from a high vantage point and vaster zones would do a lot for immersion.

BTW my guess for those who think content would be avoided forget that there can be ranged mobs and flying aggro mobs.

[Wurm]

Shemyaza wrote:

NrthnStar5 wrote:

I  like mountains you can actually climb up to, with hidden trails to take you deep inside the mountains. 

this is one of the things vanguard did best. the game might have its problems, but it had the best landscape of any mmo i've played.

SWG had it as well... I loved running up and over mountains with my Master Ranger.

[ke'la]

TZabjade wrote:

Another reason for Overland zones that are vast are these New flying mounts (BTW would rather fly my Sokakar or Carpet then a griffin) Once you are up in the sky you will see the land from a high vantage point and vaster zones would do a lot for immersion.

BTW my guess for those who think content would be avoided forget that there can be ranged mobs and flying aggro mobs.

I don't think you understand where I was comming from. Personally, what I think makes for an Epic landscape is the transition from wide open to for lack of a better term land mazes. Kinda like the area around the entrance to Nek Forest from  CL, especally the aprouch to the contested dungon near there who's name escapes me, cause I spent little time on that side.

Part of what makes the Grand Caynon, grand is that it is virtually flat leading upto it, then boom HUGE drop, then flat on the otherside. If we could climb on top of some of these overland mases, I think it would make for a much better experiance.

As far as getting a Vaste feel while on a flying mount, one thing the devs have said is that IF the mountain or whatever, that causes the Maze is with-in the zone they will try and make it so that the restriction on how high you can fly will get you over that mountain. So that should still give you that Vaste feeling, as you would be above the much of the Maze looking down at the parts you can't goto. So for instance you might be able to fly from Greenhood(?) camp in Zek to DFC without having to go nearly all the way back to the begining of the zone, same with parts Everfrost and LS. Now Moors would be differant cause it has alot of caves and such, and hopefully we won't see much more of that going forword, though an occational cave is ok. Though what would really be cool would be a Contested dungon that links two parts of a zone, kinda like BlackBurrow did, but larger.

Lastly, Flying mounts will accually allow you to bypass content, because like with the fixed griffon routes, you can't fight from them while in flight, and the mobs can't fight you ether.  People did bring up the possablity of it turning into a get out of death free card, both for the PvP Server and in PvE fights, and that seemed to catch them by supprize and they said they will look into that. My guess is that they will prevent the creature from entering flight mode while in combat, as the creater will fly and can be used as a standard mount too.

[ke'la]

Wurm wrote:

Shemyaza wrote:

NrthnStar5 wrote:

I  like mountains you can actually climb up to, with hidden trails to take you deep inside the mountains. 

this is one of the things vanguard did best. the game might have its problems, but it had the best landscape of any mmo i've played.

SWG had it as well... I loved running up and over mountains with my Master Ranger.

The only issue I had with SWG was that it was kinda odd going up those nearly vertical cliffs in places like Dathmar... though as a ranger it was kinda fun too. As was finding the fastest way to get somewhere on a speeder that was on the opposit side of the mountain.

[Jalex]

Zabjade wrote:

Rather than Necro the old Thread topic I'll  create a new one...

Please give us wide open ranges, please no more outdoor mazes in overland zones!  It also gives Mobs room to roam and allows people to practice the forgotten arts of kiting and reverse-kiting!

Also, seeing large open areas is much more immersive to game and role-play.

You sound like Toxxulia Forest didn't impress you. The map size isn't incredibly small there, it just seems that way with the architecture creating pockets of mob concentrations.  All of the mobs being trivial ruined it for me more than anything.  At 80 you can just run through the entire thing, nothing but a huge pile of mobs when you run through and stop is a threat.

I'd heard the epic surprises were removed as well, wouldn't want anything more than solo mobs anyway I suppose, people might need to interact or something.

[Zabjade]

Jalex wrote:

Zabjade wrote:

Rather than Necro the old Thread topic I'll  create a new one...

Please give us wide open ranges, please no more outdoor mazes in overland zones!  It also gives Mobs room to roam and allows people to practice the forgotten arts of kiting and reverse-kiting!

Also, seeing large open areas is much more immersive to game and role-play.

You sound like Toxxulia Forest didn't impress you. The map size isn't incredibly small there, it just seems that way with the architecture creating pockets of mob concentrations.  All of the mobs being trivial ruined it for me more than anything.  At 80 you can just run through the entire thing, nothing but a huge pile of mobs when you run through and stop is a threat.

I'd heard the epic surprises were removed as well, wouldn't want anything more than solo mobs anyway I suppose, people might need to interact or something.

Not particularly, It was nice and all. I have no problem with wandering contested epics, just give them room for a fight.

Ke'la>>> I think you are mistaking a Pre-routed Griffin mount to a free flying mount that is basically a horse on stilts. (and mobs on Stilts) and Mobs with greater bow or magic range.

At least that is how I would do it (although I would include and auto-jump for cliffs etc.)