Current Level 90 Fighter Population 1/20/11

[Wasuna]

Level 90 Only, All servers, 1/20/11

SK - 8,605

Berserker - 4,930

Paladin - 4,766

Monk - 3,716

Brusier - 3,656

Guardian - 3,137

I hope the expansion is trying to fix the Cluster-F they have made of fighter balance. Still a 275% variance from top to bottom.

[Costa]

What i find most interesting is that all the fighter classes have seen an increase in lvl 90 numbers since you started these posts back on 1/12/10.

Shadowknight's +1737

Beserkers +1087

Paladins +938

Monk +763

Brusier +762

Guardian +627

The fact SK's have more than any other class and have grown the most in the last 7 weeks probably has more to do with people having them as alts that they created in TSO and have now leveled them to 90 ready for the new expansion. It's too late now for the devs to make any sweeping changes to fighter balance if they have not done so for DoV. If they have it will be interesting to see how these numbers look 3 months after the expansion.

[Sleap]

So fighter balance to you is the population number of each fighter class? /scratches head

[DMIstar]

Actaully to him, The Fighter population consists of random duplications and Missing Profiles. People do your own research, go into EQ2players, put **** in name field and you can search the server populations with the merge servers and will see the blatent issues that come up with it.

Again these numbers are a joke lol.

[DMIstar]

So Last Post was Permafrost and Mistmoore and its roughly 150,000 Profile Screw ups according to EQ2players database, Lets do Kithkor / Butcherblock here just for fun 

EQ2 Players Kithicor Current: 139,149

EQ2 Players Butcherblock current after merge: 159,383

Last Years Standing with these servers: BB: 158,228 / Kith: 149,483

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=465030

Cause we are roughly seeing about  139,149 In Missing Profiles or just straight out glitched ... Is there duplications .. Well yes there is

Example: Guild A.

Kithicor Guild: http://everquest2.com/Guild/2712106/

Now in Buthcerblock:  http://everquest2.com/Guild/5844108/

Gee I wonder if EQ2players is broken ? But I am supposed to be desperate according to the OP

I guess your not supposed to see the screw ups, you just have to believe in the numbers posted ~

[Controlor]

One side is claiming that EQ2 players is "the best data available" while the other is claiming "the data is grossly innacurate". Well going off "the best data available" can cause serious problems (Look at Iraq and "the data says they have WMD")....

SK's may need a bit of toning down sure but unfortunatly the only way to do that would be to completely change the class to NOT be a SK. You know why they are so versatile? The reason is their life taps and reaver, and to a lesser extent some of their buffs. These act as passive healing spells that shine while soloing and grouping. Go watch a SK pre heal crit nerf and be at 10% hp with 10+ mobs on em and hit tap veins and be at 100%. The same sort of can be said for paladins with their heals though they dont scale for raids. However SK's take by far the most amount of damage out of the plate tanks. They dont have really any defensive spells. However the healing in this game is so out of proportion that healing is a non issue except for spike damage in raids. Seriously in heroic zones i have grouped with healers who dont even cast a heal and just let all their procs heal me. And besides dps sk's have no other agro management. (well they have grave sacrament i guess but still not much).

Again there is no real way to really alter a SK without changing the core of their class entirely. For solo / group content the class that can heal themselves has it easier than a class that cant (this is why guards SUCK at soloing). For raids the better MT's are those that can handle spike damage and deagro the best. Guess what that is NOT sk's. Guards still better in that department and next expac they should become even better for that. Though most of the population are not raiding any hard content. SO you see the fighters that can heal themselves the best with the higher pop. SK's first Zerkers second and Paladins third. (if you look at heal parses SK's will out heal all other fighters, and zerkers out heal paladins).

*edit* made it a bit easier to read stead of one long block paragraph.

[Wasuna]

Istar claims that since players were in essance duped when the servers were merged makes the EQ2 players numbers invalid. My point is that all players on those servers were duped and therefore the diaparity is a valid comparision.

Just becasue he's a SK and doesn't like the numbers doesn't in any way make the impact of those numbers invalid.

And yes, a 275% disparity between the top and botton is evidance of imbalance. Let alone the abundance of evidance posted in this forums that only 2-3 people dispute. As stated in the previous thread, the people that dispute the numbers and it's importants are ..... SK's.

On a side note, the SK population is the highest single populated class in EQ2 (all classes, not just fighters) by something like 35%. Meaning the second highest class count in in the 6000's.

[Wasuna]

Controlor wrote:

 For raids the better MT's are those that can handle spike damage and deagro the best. Guess what that is NOT sk's.

So, why do all of the high end raid guilds that posted parses on Hardmode and UD raids at the request of the developers on this forum ALL use either a SK, Paladin or Berserker as MT? Also, I believe only one raid had a Guardian in it and that was not the MT. I'd have to dig that thread up again but it was something like 80% SK, 15% Paladin and a Berserker ot two.

Again, my perception is based on evidence presented on this forum. Your claim is invalid based on the player provided information.

[DMIstar]

Wasuna wrote:

Istar claims that since players were in essance duped when the servers were merged makes the EQ2 players numbers invalid. My point is that all players on those servers were duped and therefore the diaparity is a valid comparision.

Just becasue he's a SK and doesn't like the numbers doesn't in any way make the impact of those numbers invalid.

And yes, a 275% disparity between the top and botton is evidance of imbalance. Let alone the abundance of evidance posted in this forums that only 2-3 people dispute. As stated in the previous thread, the people that dispute the numbers and it's importants are ..... SK's.

On a side note, the SK population is the highest single populated class in EQ2 (all classes, not just fighters) by something like 35%. Meaning the second highest class count in in the 6000's.

Your trying to make people gullable into believing numbers that directly include offline servers, such as mistmoore, kithicor and the rest of the ones brought down. You Fail at finding accurate information and your numbers are a joke.

and another EQ2players bug tidbit, It will duplicate names given a close proximity of the character being online to the merge date, however lvl 90 players and any lvl players that have been inactive for 100 days may not duplicate and thier profile remains on just the offline servers so even more confusion to numbers from EQ2players..

[DMIstar]

Wasuna wrote:

Controlor wrote:

 For raids the better MT's are those that can handle spike damage and deagro the best. Guess what that is NOT sk's.

So, why do all of the high end raid guilds that posted parses on Hardmode and UD raids at the request of the developers on this forum ALL use either a SK, Paladin or Berserker as MT? Also, I believe only one raid had a Guardian in it and that was not the MT. I'd have to dig that thread up again but it was something like 80% SK, 15% Paladin and a Berserker ot two.

Again, my perception is based on evidence presented on this forum. Your claim is invalid based on the player provided information.

any real links to back this claim or is it your imagination ?

[Landiin]

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Wasuna wrote:

Controlor wrote:

 For raids the better MT's are those that can handle spike damage and deagro the best. Guess what that is NOT sk's.

So, why do all of the high end raid guilds that posted parses on Hardmode and UD raids at the request of the developers on this forum ALL use either a SK, Paladin or Berserker as MT? Also, I believe only one raid had a Guardian in it and that was not the MT. I'd have to dig that thread up again but it was something like 80% SK, 15% Paladin and a Berserker ot two.

Again, my perception is based on evidence presented on this forum. Your claim is invalid based on the player provided information.

any real links to back this claim or is it your imagination ?

I think they removed that thread but it was there, you know it was there. Don't act like you didn't know about it. Every one seen it, unless you been under a rock.

[DMIstar]

Toranx@Crushbone wrote:

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Wasuna wrote:

Controlor wrote:

 For raids the better MT's are those that can handle spike damage and deagro the best. Guess what that is NOT sk's.

So, why do all of the high end raid guilds that posted parses on Hardmode and UD raids at the request of the developers on this forum ALL use either a SK, Paladin or Berserker as MT? Also, I believe only one raid had a Guardian in it and that was not the MT. I'd have to dig that thread up again but it was something like 80% SK, 15% Paladin and a Berserker ot two.

Again, my perception is based on evidence presented on this forum. Your claim is invalid based on the player provided information.

any real links to back this claim or is it your imagination ?

I think they removed that thread but it was there, you know it was there. Don't act like you didn't know about it. Every one seen it, unless you been under a rock.

Well considering that the op is adding in dead servers to artificially inflate the numbers as shown, and is quite obvious... and the fact that most High end guilds are not going to pay attention to one solitary thread. there needs to be more credibility to this then just stateing trash

[Corydonn]

Hah! One more monk was made than a bruiser! Eat it monks!

[Landiin]

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Toranx@Crushbone wrote:

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Wasuna wrote:

Controlor wrote:

 For raids the better MT's are those that can handle spike damage and deagro the best. Guess what that is NOT sk's.

So, why do all of the high end raid guilds that posted parses on Hardmode and UD raids at the request of the developers on this forum ALL use either a SK, Paladin or Berserker as MT? Also, I believe only one raid had a Guardian in it and that was not the MT. I'd have to dig that thread up again but it was something like 80% SK, 15% Paladin and a Berserker ot two.

Again, my perception is based on evidence presented on this forum. Your claim is invalid based on the player provided information.

any real links to back this claim or is it your imagination ?

I think they removed that thread but it was there, you know it was there. Don't act like you didn't know about it. Every one seen it, unless you been under a rock.

Well considering that the op is adding in dead servers to artificially inflate the numbers as shown, and is quite obvious... and the fact that most High end guilds are not going to pay attention to one solitary thread. there needs to be more credibility to this then just stateing trash

Most every high end raid posted in that thread as it was started by the class dev. His numbers about that thread are correct IIRC and I am sure i do.

[Epehjr]

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Well considering that the op is adding in dead servers to artificially inflate the numbers as shown, and is quite obvious... and the fact that most High end guilds are not going to pay attention to one solitary thread. there needs to be more credibility to this then just stateing trash

Credibility.. This coming from the person that supported the notion that /who was the accurate way to determine the population of a class on a specific server.   You just need to give up. 

[DMIstar]

Epehjr@Kithicor wrote:

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Well considering that the op is adding in dead servers to artificially inflate the numbers as shown, and is quite obvious... and the fact that most High end guilds are not going to pay attention to one solitary thread. there needs to be more credibility to this then just stateing trash

Credibility.. This coming from the person that supported the notion that /who was the accurate way to determine the population of a class on a specific server.   You just need to give up.

Its the only accurate one that we have to even tell what is going on in game, rather then a screwed up database that has countless known flaws.

A /who all can be proven and counted a fact, EQ2players database can't even be regarded as accurate information.

[Tenka]

the same margin of error would be applied to all classes counted tho.

[DMIstar]

Thats what can be assumed, However thats why i Posted the information on the merged server numbers. For that is not actually happening.

I can only track to either that the new duplications crossovers are either being at the time of character login or account login. Not sure which, However I do know many profiles that are months from being active are not duplicated to their new parent server.

In anycase this leaves the duplications being relative to the account use and this statistic would be completley random and untrackable. So there would be no comparison in the cases by case errors per class with this factor.

again i encourage people to do thier own research and can goto eq2players and use "****" in the Name string which is how these numbers are being brought to you for these threads. You can see whats going on with it, with minor research to it.

[Wasuna]

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Thats what can be assumed, However thats why i Posted the information on the merged server numbers. For that is not actually happening.

I can only track to either that the new duplications crossovers are either being at the time of character login or account login. Not sure which, However I do know many profiles that are months from being active are not duplicated to their new parent server.

In anycase this leaves the duplications being relative to the account use and this statistic would be completley random and untrackable. So there would be no comparison in the cases by case errors per class with this factor.

again i encourage people to do thier own research and can goto eq2players and use "****" in the Name string which is how these numbers are being brought to you for these threads. You can see whats going on with it, with minor research to it.

So your saying that EQ2players isn't counting charachters from accounts that haven't been logged in in a long time... That's perfect. My numbers are level 90 only in an attempt to only show current active players.

Thank you for further validating the numbers from EQ2players. I agree there are errors in any numbers that are available but the percentage is there to review, 275% variance from top to bottom. The only way this isn't a valid number, based on your comments above, is if SOE inflated the popultaion numbers just to screw with me.. which I seriouly doubt.

[DMIstar]

Wasuna wrote:

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Thats what can be assumed, However thats why i Posted the information on the merged server numbers. For that is not actually happening.

I can only track to either that the new duplications crossovers are either being at the time of character login or account login. Not sure which, However I do know many profiles that are months from being active are not duplicated to their new parent server.

In anycase this leaves the duplications being relative to the account use and this statistic would be completley random and untrackable. So there would be no comparison in the cases by case errors per class with this factor.

again i encourage people to do thier own research and can goto eq2players and use "****" in the Name string which is how these numbers are being brought to you for these threads. You can see whats going on with it, with minor research to it.

So your saying that EQ2players isn't counting charachters from accounts that haven't been logged in in a long time... That's perfect. My numbers are level 90 only in an attempt to only show current active players.

Thank you for further validating the numbers from EQ2players. I agree there are errors in any numbers that are available but the percentage is there to review, 275% variance from top to bottom. The only way this isn't a valid number, based on your comments above, is if SOE inflated the popultaion numbers just to screw with me.. which I seriouly doubt.

Umm no, its duplicateing only the names that have logged in recently and not the names that havent, and only duplicates those from the dead servers that merged over and is why the numbers are off drastically as they are and includeing other instances that further pull them off base.

[Landiin]

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Umm no, its duplicateing only the names that have logged in recently and not the names that havent, and only duplicates those from the dead servers that merged over and is why the numbers are off drastically as they are and includeing other instances that further pull them off base.

Where is your proof of this? I am pretty sure it queries a database. That database isn't populated by people logging in.

[Wasuna]

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Umm no, its duplicateing only the names that have logged in recently and not the names that havent, and only duplicates those from the dead servers that merged over and is why the numbers are off drastically as they are and includeing other instances that further pull them off base.

Good. As you can see from the name of this topic. It's 'CURRENT" level 90 population. If you haven't logged in recently then you don't count. I'm hoping for a count that only includes actively played charachters. You should be happy. All of those level 90 SK's that people only leveled up to see how green the grass is were not counted. Imagine if they were counted... those numbers would have been unbelieveably bad for your prefered class. The current numebrs are just terribly bad.

[AziBam]

/yawn  Wasuna, I'll give you this, you are nothing if not persistent. 

I'd have to say that nobody, and nothing, has done more to explode the SK population than you have.  Well, a few honorable mentions to Toranx, Gaylon, etc.  I applaud you, Sir!

The data clearly shows that there are more SKs than other fighters.  Fortunately, I don't care enough to worry about whether it's accurate. It "feels" accurate to me.  Course, that is all that it shows.  Literally, that there are more SKs than the others.  Anything else is just how we want to put our own personal spin on it. 

I've had an SK since shortly after launch so I suppose you could just say I'm biased and therefore I could go with the "more fun" or "roleplaying" or "the numbers aren't accurate themes you've already heard".  I lived throughout the awful years where SKs literally couldn't do our basic job.  More accurately, we had no job.

The thing is, which tank is incapable of doing their job now?  I don't mean last expansion, 3 years ago, launch, I mean now.  Is it easier for an SK, paladin, or zerk to tank multiple mobs?  Sure.  Does the guard have tools to at least get the job done?  Yes.  I'm not claiming things are perfect.  However, I'd argue that they are closer than they have ever been in terms of ability to get a tank job done.  Just pointing at these numbers and then making the leap to them as the end all and be all of balance is not accurate. 

I know that nothing I've said is anything you haven't heard from others.  Good news for me is that I'm kind of getting tired of the game in general so if they did make some kind of dramatic change (creating a big imbalance) it will make it all that much easier for me to just walk away altogether.  Unfortunately for what you want, that might be true for many others as well.  SOE is probably aware of that too.

[Wasuna]

/yawn .. Another SK that talks about how they had to walk up hill both ways through the snow during summer to get to school.

SK's were never broken. The other fighters just did the job better. Sounds kind of familar doesn't it?

I've played my Guardian in beta and recreated him the day of relaease. I grouped with a SK for years from release and we swapped out the tanking job. He did just fine, I just did it better in the early years due to my class abilities. The healers didn't care which of us tanked. SK's were never broken, they just weren't the best and got left behind by most people.

[Controlor]

Wasuna wrote:

Controlor wrote:

 For raids the better MT's are those that can handle spike damage and deagro the best. Guess what that is NOT sk's.

So, why do all of the high end raid guilds that posted parses on Hardmode and UD raids at the request of the developers on this forum ALL use either a SK, Paladin or Berserker as MT? Also, I believe only one raid had a Guardian in it and that was not the MT. I'd have to dig that thread up again but it was something like 80% SK, 15% Paladin and a Berserker ot two.

Again, my perception is based on evidence presented on this forum. Your claim is invalid based on the player provided information.

I have gone though that thread yes. A lot of the parses were posted pre heal nerf where paladins were generally the MT because of their defensive capability being mitigated by their healing (namely their group heal for spike damage or their wards). Most of which used a Pally as the MT and a SK or Zerker as the OT. However i have seen also many threads where said high end guilds now use a guard (or have the guard) as the MT. The thing about raiding though is that guards just are not built for anything OTHER than MT vs the other 3 are more versatile. However that again is only a SMALL population. There are not 5k+ guilds out their doing HM content that EACH would be using a SK as a MT. No again my point is and was in the post that the reason you see those top numbers for those 3 is primarily due to healing. Healing = Survival in solo content. Healing = easier time in group content. Yes having "better" aoe agro in group content makes things faster which guards are hurting in. However you DONT need to room pull everything as a guard to still run through an instance fast. The vast majority of the population are casuals NOT guilds doing HM. And the ability to solo in treasured or legendary gear is a thing that SK / Zerker / Pally all do better then guards... BECAUSE they can heal. However again if you were to completely remove or change this mechanic than you would just get cookie cutter classes which are blah.

*edit*

And as to go back to a previous post on one of your other "hey lets nerf SK's fighter population" the ability to survive soloing or room pulling in groups = fun. Thus people play that class. If it is not the casuals than its alts. Hell I have seen an influx in my own guild of people leveling up SK's to 90 as alts because they are fun to solo with. And to change that part of them (their lifetaps) would basically change the class all together into a guard

[DMIstar]

Toranx@Crushbone wrote:

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Umm no, its duplicateing only the names that have logged in recently and not the names that havent, and only duplicates those from the dead servers that merged over and is why the numbers are off drastically as they are and includeing other instances that further pull them off base.

Where is your proof of this? I am pretty sure it queries a database. That database isn't populated by people logging in.

First page goes over server population issues and not reflecting the correct numbers of what the server merge would have been. Last page of previous thread points out names that are not duplicated from the merge and that is just one page.... Very easy research~

[AziBam]

Wasuna wrote:

/yawn .. Another SK that talks about how they had to walk up hill both ways through the snow during summer to get to school.

Hrm,  interesting that this is all you see. Oh well, w/e.  Best of luck with your agenda.

[Gilasil]

I love these threads and the way some people try to say black is white.  Their talents are wasted here -- they ought to be lawyers.  Even if there are large errors, unless someone can prove that they're SYSTEMATIC errors (i.e. boost ONLY SK pop) it looks pretty obvious to me.

In a way though, these threads are pointless (other then for entertainment value and for that they're priceless).   Whether you argue for or against it doesn't really matter.  SoE most certainly has the exact population numbers.  They don't need us telling them what the populations are.

If SoE looks at their own accurate numbers and is able to delude themselves that they don't mean anything then no amount of fancy footwork on the part of posters is going to change their minds.

So what it comes down to is -- will SoE set things right in SoV? Whether they will or whether they won't, the decision is made.  At this point they're probably just chasing down the odd bugs and aren't about to do a major balancing revamp.  What will be will be, at least for the next year.

So even if nothing said on this thread is going to have an effect, I still love the contortions some people are going through as they think they're arguing to prevent a nerf on their class.  They aren't but they're still quite entertaining.

[Landiin]

As far as these population threads. They are fun simply because people try to use the fact that the numbers are not 100% correct. I agree, they are no where near 100% correct but they are the closes thing any one can get besides them with access to the char databases . Yes that is including /who all. 

The last plan I heard Smokejumper say, at least I think it was him that said it. Was that once DoV was out and going stable then they where going to work on class roles. He didn't say what kind of weight the project had or a time from just that it would be after DoV. So I really don't see any major changes on the class level coming with DoV. Yea tweeks here and there but nothing major.

[Rahatmattata]

Costa@Nagafen wrote:

What i find most interesting is that all the fighter classes have seen an increase in lvl 90 numbers since you started these posts back on 1/12/10.

Shadowknight's +1737

Beserkers +1087

Paladins +938

Monk +763

Brusier +762

Guardian +627

How is that interesting? That's normal and to be expected. People are hitting level 90 every day. Interesting would be if classes were shrinking which would mean more people are deleting their characters or betraying than hitting level 90....