Is there a class that can DPS well with a 2 handed sword?

Creutzphel · 02-12-2010, 02:41 AM

Just curious if there is in fact a class that can dps -well-, not great, but well enough to make soloing bearable with a 2 handed sword.

If so, any particular builds to make it work?

Artalis the Elder · 03-09-2010, 11:42 AM

There are only three classes that pull this off effectively.

Berserkers on aoe fights. Though dual-wield might probably still win out, it would have to be an amazing 2-hander

Monks and Bruisers might do ok, they have an aa that gives flurry now so I'm thinking that a serious 2-hander in the hands of a Monk (moreso than a bruiser due to haste) might not be too bad. Again, unless the weapon is amazing dual wield is probably going to win out.

Rast · 03-09-2010, 06:32 PM

Paladins used to do this to get by solo, but with the complete lack of decent 2 handers and AAs that make us more proficent damage wise with a S/B combo, there is no reason to anymore.

Edit:

It isn't that there are classes that can't do it, it is simply the lack of 2 handed weapons that make it nearly impossible.

Rahatmattata · 03-09-2010, 11:54 PM

Crusaders use 2h while leveling up. Once you get enough AA you will drop the 2h for sword and board. My shadowknight carries an ebon shield, 1h, and a 2h, which I swap in and out depending if I want dps or defense. I used a 2h for a few levels when I was leveling up my guardian because I looted one with a pretty decent damage spread from dvinnian throne room.

But for warriors duel wielding is more dps than 2h, and for crusaders they eventually get AAs that make 2h obsolete. At higher levels any 2h you find are for loldps priests.

Sprin · 03-29-2010, 06:39 PM

Lack of 2h weapons in this new expansion is pretty pathetic...

With crusaders...

40+% AOE attack + easily getting 100+% crit + easily obtained 100+% Double attack + the crit bonus they are giving away for free in this expansion + a good 2h (in very short supply, if at all available) and that would be a VERY VERY VERY nasty combo...

The problem in that equation comes from the lack of 2 handed weapons... all else is very easty to get...

My SK has 123% crit, 102% DA, 40% AOE attack, and 39% crit bonus... 40 DPS... 40 Haste..... And i still have PLENTY more crit bonus, DPS to get....

Add a 2H with a 160ish rating... please... would be stupid damage...

SOE needs to add more good 2H weapons to this expansion, now that its not neccessary to carry your mythical to get its bonuses...

Aule · 03-29-2010, 07:06 PM

Both brawlers do find with 2h weapons, but don't meet your limited criteria due to inability to equip a sword. If you're willing to settle for a staff instead though, you can do pretty respectable dps with 6-8% self buffed flurry, 100% aoe auto for 24s, and some static aoe auto based on adornments. Get a dirge in group with adorn to get your flurry up to 16% and it's loads of fun.

Costa · 03-30-2010, 08:56 AM

There is the 2 hander in vigilant x2 but from what i seen that is about the only good one that drops and i hear it's a rare drop. On top of that its appearance looks bad for a crusader's to be flailing around so appearance weapons ftw

The gear as a whole that is dropping in heroic content is pretty weak when comparing to what was dropping in TSO so i can only hope there is another expansion/new content due later in the year to bring some better looking items into the game.

I would consider a berserker to be a good 2 hander class if the weapons are out there due to the haste and dps bonuses they get off berserk. Should be easy to max both in a group which on the 6 second delay weapon would drop it down to about 2 seconds. Couple that with 100% frontal from myth ability and you'd be looking at crazy dps on encounters SMILEY Would love to see a comparison with dual wielding a couple high damage 1 handed weapons and the vigilant 2 hander

Kota · 03-30-2010, 10:51 AM

maybe one of these days i will figure out the actual damage rating for dual wield. when you dual wield, your weapons get slower, but still do the same damage. so, as far as i can tell, the displayed damage rating for dual wielded weapons is incorrect.

wwd2 · 03-30-2010, 10:57 AM

Creutzpheldt wrote:

Just curious if there is in fact a class that can dps -well-, not great, but well enough to make soloing bearable with a 2 handed sword.
If so, any particular builds to make it work?

I guess I need someone to define bearable because all I have ever used is two-handers. Commissioned a mastercrafted one last night, matter a fact. Been using Blessed one's too. My berserker holds her own quite bearably. The only thing that takes my lady down is lag.

Maybe she would be more effective dual wielding, but that's just silly idea and silly looking.

Costa · 03-30-2010, 11:21 AM

I was under the impression the damage changed as well but that may have been an old mechanic. They are slower though when dual wielding.

wwd2 dual wield axes, it dosn't look silly at all on a Zerk SMILEY

Aule · 03-30-2010, 02:19 PM

Damage doesn't change when you dual wield, the delay is what's changed and it's penalized by 30%. Let's do some math and see how things match up. aITEM 849102555 -1522223285:Nanthera's Ivory Bladed Yuri/a 151 - 858, 6.0s delay aITEM -1036942283 1037578849:Frontal Assault War Axe/a (60 marks) 110 - 622, 6.0s delay aITEM 1157672521 652069720:Kaborite Plated Longsword/a (40 marks) 170 - 511, 6.0s delay Self buffed my bruiser alt is at 38.4% crit bonus, so for the sake of the argument I'm going to do the numbers at 50 crit bonus as that should be fairly easily obtained in a group environment. At 200 dps and haste, your damage numbers will be roughly Yuri 836 - 4753, 2.67s delay Axe 609 - 3446, 3.47 delay Sword 942 - 2831, 3.47 delay With 100% crit rate and 1.50 crit factor for berserkers + 0.50 crit bonus the average crit (not including debuffs and accounting for max+1 ratio) will be: Yuri 6196 Axe 4493 Sword 3892.5 Now aoe autoattack strikes 4 targets, being sony math this means it you hit your primary target and 3 additional targets. If we assume ideal circumstances of always having 3 additional targets to strike and 100% hit rate, then you'll get the follow numbers: Yuri, 2.67s delay 30,980 damage per swing, or 11,603 dps Axe and Sword, 3.47s delay 30,256 damage per swing, or 8, 719 dps vs single target these numbers change to Yuri 4, 641 dps Axe and Sword 4,833 dps Please note the axe and sword are not raid weapons and the Yuri is, but basically, if you're fighting 1 target you should be dual wielding, if you're fighting lots of targets you can wield a two hander and win out.

wwd2 · 03-30-2010, 06:46 PM

Bazill@Nagafen wrote:

I was under the impression the damage changed as well but that may have been an old mechanic. They are slower though when dual wielding.
wwd2 dual wield axes, it dosn't look silly at all on a Zerk

~laughs~ yeah, axes... dual wielding axes, that ain't silly at all. /sarcasm off

I tried dual wieding hatchets once and thought I was going to chop my foot off at the shin. Nah, I prefer single-handed or double handed. I can do a lot more damage and have much more control, but hey, I am a control freak...

The advantages to dual wielding are arguable at best, if they exist at all. But then again, I ain't no Musashi, neh?

Aule · 04-01-2010, 02:06 PM

If we're going to talk historically, dual wielding for combat purposes, as opposed to meditative purposes, was principally done with a knife in the off hand to serve defensively as a makeshift shield. In the lucky chance of an opening being created there was a remote chance of an attack with the off hand being successful. Mostly it was used to either feint with, block with, or create a diversion by throwing it at the opponent so you could run. In almost all cases, you were better off having a shield in the offhand thank a second weapon. You could actually defend yourself reasonably, and a shield rush or push to knock your opponent off balance / out of position was tactically sound. EQ2 doesn't have anything you can do tactically, you'd need to play a game with collision detection such as DDO in order to include tactics. Dual wielding for offensive purposes has been included in just about every game that's come out since RA Salvatore created a bunch of Drizzt fanbois.

Darkonx · 04-01-2010, 03:41 PM

wwd2 wrote:

Bazill@Nagafen wrote:
I was under the impression the damage changed as well but that may have been an old mechanic. They are slower though when dual wielding.
wwd2 dual wield axes, it dosn't look silly at all on a Zerk
Nah, I prefer single-handed or double handed. I can do a lot more damage and have much more control, but hey, I am a control freak...
The advantages to dual wielding are arguable at best, if they exist at all. But then again, I ain't no Musashi, neh?

DW>2h for dps purposes, excluding AE fights. 4+ mob encounters, 2 hander with 100% aoe auto attack is viable.

03-09-2010, 11:42 AM	#2
Artalis the Elder Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 288	There are only three classes that pull this off effectively. Berserkers on aoe fights. Though dual-wield might probably still win out, it would have to be an amazing 2-hander Monks and Bruisers might do ok, they have an aa that gives flurry now so I'm thinking that a serious 2-hander in the hands of a Monk (moreso than a bruiser due to haste) might not be too bad. Again, unless the weapon is amazing dual wield is probably going to win out. __________________

03-09-2010, 06:32 PM	#3
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	Paladins used to do this to get by solo, but with the complete lack of decent 2 handers and AAs that make us more proficent damage wise with a S/B combo, there is no reason to anymore. Edit: It isn't that there are classes that can't do it, it is simply the lack of 2 handed weapons that make it nearly impossible. __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

03-09-2010, 11:54 PM	#4
Rahatmattata Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,232	Crusaders use 2h while leveling up. Once you get enough AA you will drop the 2h for sword and board. My shadowknight carries an ebon shield, 1h, and a 2h, which I swap in and out depending if I want dps or defense. I used a 2h for a few levels when I was leveling up my guardian because I looted one with a pretty decent damage spread from dvinnian throne room. But for warriors duel wielding is more dps than 2h, and for crusaders they eventually get AAs that make 2h obsolete. At higher levels any 2h you find are for loldps priests. __________________ A Cure For Cancer

03-29-2010, 07:06 PM	#6
Aule Server: Guk Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,360	Both brawlers do find with 2h weapons, but don't meet your limited criteria due to inability to equip a sword. If you're willing to settle for a staff instead though, you can do pretty respectable dps with 6-8% self buffed flurry, 100% aoe auto for 24s, and some static aoe auto based on adornments. Get a dirge in group with adorn to get your flurry up to 16% and it's loads of fun. __________________ guk.Aule - 90 coercer \| Troops of Doom \| 90 bruiser - guk.Krindi

03-30-2010, 08:56 AM	#7
Costa Server: Nagafen Guild: Black Rose Rank: Officer's Alts Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: UK Posts: 297	There is the 2 hander in vigilant x2 but from what i seen that is about the only good one that drops and i hear it's a rare drop. On top of that its appearance looks bad for a crusader's to be flailing around so appearance weapons ftw The gear as a whole that is dropping in heroic content is pretty weak when comparing to what was dropping in TSO so i can only hope there is another expansion/new content due later in the year to bring some better looking items into the game. I would consider a berserker to be a good 2 hander class if the weapons are out there due to the haste and dps bonuses they get off berserk. Should be easy to max both in a group which on the 6 second delay weapon would drop it down to about 2 seconds. Couple that with 100% frontal from myth ability and you'd be looking at crazy dps on encounters Would love to see a comparison with dual wielding a couple high damage 1 handed weapons and the vigilant 2 hander __________________

02-12-2010, 02:41 AM	#1
Creutzphel General Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 21	Just curious if there is in fact a class that can dps -well-, not great, but well enough to make soloing bearable with a 2 handed sword. If so, any particular builds to make it work?

03-29-2010, 06:39 PM	#5
Sprin Server: Nagafen Guild: L U S H Rank: LUSH (Supreme Drinker!) General Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,364	Lack of 2h weapons in this new expansion is pretty pathetic... With crusaders... 40+% AOE attack + easily getting 100+% crit + easily obtained 100+% Double attack + the crit bonus they are giving away for free in this expansion + a good 2h (in very short supply, if at all available) and that would be a VERY VERY VERY nasty combo... The problem in that equation comes from the lack of 2 handed weapons... all else is very easty to get... My SK has 123% crit, 102% DA, 40% AOE attack, and 39% crit bonus... 40 DPS... 40 Haste..... And i still have PLENTY more crit bonus, DPS to get.... Add a 2H with a 160ish rating... please... would be stupid damage... SOE needs to add more good 2H weapons to this expansion, now that its not neccessary to carry your mythical to get its bonuses...

03-30-2010, 10:51 AM	#8
Kota Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 671	maybe one of these days i will figure out the actual damage rating for dual wield. when you dual wield, your weapons get slower, but still do the same damage. so, as far as i can tell, the displayed damage rating for dual wielded weapons is incorrect.

03-30-2010, 10:57 AM	#9
wwd2 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lovingston, Virginia Posts: 83	Creutzpheldt wrote: Just curious if there is in fact a class that can dps -well-, not great, but well enough to make soloing bearable with a 2 handed sword. If so, any particular builds to make it work? I guess I need someone to define bearable because all I have ever used is two-handers. Commissioned a mastercrafted one last night, matter a fact. Been using Blessed one's too. My berserker holds her own quite bearably. The only thing that takes my lady down is lag. Maybe she would be more effective dual wielding, but that's just silly idea and silly looking. __________________ Leyek Hluillsdottir, Warrior on the Path of Blood and Rage Hluill, Rogue of Freeport <>House Fiiyinrod<> Lucan D'Lere

03-30-2010, 11:21 AM	#10
Costa Server: Nagafen Guild: Black Rose Rank: Officer's Alts Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: UK Posts: 297	I was under the impression the damage changed as well but that may have been an old mechanic. They are slower though when dual wielding. wwd2 dual wield axes, it dosn't look silly at all on a Zerk __________________

03-30-2010, 02:19 PM	#11
Aule Server: Guk Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,360	Damage doesn't change when you dual wield, the delay is what's changed and it's penalized by 30%. Let's do some math and see how things match up. aITEM 849102555 -1522223285:Nanthera's Ivory Bladed Yuri/a 151 - 858, 6.0s delay aITEM -1036942283 1037578849:Frontal Assault War Axe/a (60 marks) 110 - 622, 6.0s delay aITEM 1157672521 652069720:Kaborite Plated Longsword/a (40 marks) 170 - 511, 6.0s delay Self buffed my bruiser alt is at 38.4% crit bonus, so for the sake of the argument I'm going to do the numbers at 50 crit bonus as that should be fairly easily obtained in a group environment. At 200 dps and haste, your damage numbers will be roughly Yuri 836 - 4753, 2.67s delay Axe 609 - 3446, 3.47 delay Sword 942 - 2831, 3.47 delay With 100% crit rate and 1.50 crit factor for berserkers + 0.50 crit bonus the average crit (not including debuffs and accounting for max+1 ratio) will be: Yuri 6196 Axe 4493 Sword 3892.5 Now aoe autoattack strikes 4 targets, being sony math this means it you hit your primary target and 3 additional targets. If we assume ideal circumstances of always having 3 additional targets to strike and 100% hit rate, then you'll get the follow numbers: Yuri, 2.67s delay 30,980 damage per swing, or 11,603 dps Axe and Sword, 3.47s delay 30,256 damage per swing, or 8, 719 dps vs single target these numbers change to Yuri 4, 641 dps Axe and Sword 4,833 dps Please note the axe and sword are not raid weapons and the Yuri is, but basically, if you're fighting 1 target you should be dual wielding, if you're fighting lots of targets you can wield a two hander and win out. __________________ guk.Aule - 90 coercer \| Troops of Doom \| 90 bruiser - guk.Krindi

03-30-2010, 06:46 PM	#12
wwd2 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lovingston, Virginia Posts: 83	Bazill@Nagafen wrote: I was under the impression the damage changed as well but that may have been an old mechanic. They are slower though when dual wielding. wwd2 dual wield axes, it dosn't look silly at all on a Zerk ~laughs~ yeah, axes... dual wielding axes, that ain't silly at all. /sarcasm off I tried dual wieding hatchets once and thought I was going to chop my foot off at the shin. Nah, I prefer single-handed or double handed. I can do a lot more damage and have much more control, but hey, I am a control freak... The advantages to dual wielding are arguable at best, if they exist at all. But then again, I ain't no Musashi, neh? __________________ Leyek Hluillsdottir, Warrior on the Path of Blood and Rage Hluill, Rogue of Freeport <>House Fiiyinrod<> Lucan D'Lere

04-01-2010, 02:06 PM	#13
Aule Server: Guk Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,360	If we're going to talk historically, dual wielding for combat purposes, as opposed to meditative purposes, was principally done with a knife in the off hand to serve defensively as a makeshift shield. In the lucky chance of an opening being created there was a remote chance of an attack with the off hand being successful. Mostly it was used to either feint with, block with, or create a diversion by throwing it at the opponent so you could run. In almost all cases, you were better off having a shield in the offhand thank a second weapon. You could actually defend yourself reasonably, and a shield rush or push to knock your opponent off balance / out of position was tactically sound. EQ2 doesn't have anything you can do tactically, you'd need to play a game with collision detection such as DDO in order to include tactics. Dual wielding for offensive purposes has been included in just about every game that's come out since RA Salvatore created a bunch of Drizzt fanbois. __________________ guk.Aule - 90 coercer \| Troops of Doom \| 90 bruiser - guk.Krindi

04-01-2010, 03:41 PM	#14
Darkonx Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 389	wwd2 wrote: Bazill@Nagafen wrote: I was under the impression the damage changed as well but that may have been an old mechanic. They are slower though when dual wielding. wwd2 dual wield axes, it dosn't look silly at all on a Zerk Nah, I prefer single-handed or double handed. I can do a lot more damage and have much more control, but hey, I am a control freak... The advantages to dual wielding are arguable at best, if they exist at all. But then again, I ain't no Musashi, neh? DW>2h for dps purposes, excluding AE fights. 4+ mob encounters, 2 hander with 100% aoe auto attack is viable.