New Paladin TSO 4 Set Bonus

[Stonestrong]

While I like your Divine Favor focus (this is something I had previsouly suggested myelf) I don't think a 5% increase to the heal and some time off the reuse it appropriate. I think something more like 50% heal and taking away the penalties would be alot more beneficial to the raiding paladin community. Going from 21% heal to 26% is a nice start but I feel like that should be alot more substantial considering Bloodletter and its potential amount with all  of its triggers.

Now I'm not complaining about bloodletter or asking it to be changed, I just think our DI should be a little more in line. If we could get this 4 set to remove penalties and actually give us a 50% or greater heal I think that our 4 set would be very usefull and actually worth wearing. Also Divine Favor was changed on test before the fighter roll backs to include removal of penalties and adding 2 stoneskins. You could just incorporate both into the 4 set or some combination of the changes and that would be great. This would be a great boost in survivability for paladins that do not have high end gear available to them.

Stone

[Kahling]

I really feel this bonus was added while the test divine favour was active, things are designed a while before we see them so I really think that this was designed one day while divine favour was in it's more usefull form.

A mistake has been made in my opinion. 

There are two things that really need to be addressed for this to be a viable 4 set bonus.  Firstly please bring back the intended divine favour this was designed for.  Secondly please look at how long raid fights actually last, the maximum named fights I am seeing at the moment are arround 8 mins, please let the recast reducer reflect this more somewhat and base the recast on it giving you an extra save per mob rather than how it stands which is you get to use the spell once per raid named.  A 30 second reducer makes no difference per encounter and that is the most important factor here so looking at it from that angle it is pointless.  The only way there would be a reason for a recast reducer is to allow it to save twice per raid mob which leads to a reducer of arround 1:30 to 2min.  (Remember it is a 5 min recast spell)

Its like the recast reducer on the Paladin chest peices for our big heal.  I can't understand it as on a per encounter basis this makes no sence appart from a very small minoririty of raid encounters that last longer.

Personally I would really like to see something more in line with what Paladins do to help them stay alive with these set bonuses.  I really would like to see the 2 set improve the ward prayer in some way.  And I would like to see the 4 set improve the single and group heals we get in some way, I did suggest in another thread that the 4 set add a ward to the two heals I mention, for example a 30% of heal value ward added to each heal as the 4 set bonus.  I still see heal interrupts a problem to be honest in raid encounters, by the time you get a heal off somtimes you have lost the benifit of them as your healers (who are not getting hit) have you at 100%.  A ward on the heal at least allows some wiggle room for the whole mob hitting you vs interupts vs it being benificial to cast a heal.

Regards

Kahling

[Kahling]

Can I make a personal request, fellow players can follow it or not, its up to you.

Can the Paladins that can actually aquire this equipment, and who use it for it's intended purpose IE in the raids on mobs beyond getting 4 items just post in here what they think about the new 4 set.  Can we also keep the feedback constructive.  Could we ask that other classes don't chime in unless it is to be constructive and respectfull.

I really feel strongly about the 4 set bonus fitting in with what its intended purpose is, that is an aid to help you kill the mobs you killed to get it easier, and to enable you to progress to killing the next mob allong.

Sadly I am not seeing this but I am of the opinion that the devs do a hard thankless task sometimes, unrewarding here for example for Fyrelight due to the dissapointment of his paying customers of his 4 set design.

But this does not have to be the case.  In light of recent announcments of a better customer / game designer relationship and communication the 4 set could be acceptable if we give solid well thought out feedback as to what we see would benifit us from owning this set in the right place in raid progression.

BTW for the benifit of the Dev's regarding the feedback above I am a main tank Paladin of a raid force that has just broken through to enable us to get 4 items of the TSO armour.  The feedback above is based on the mobs we are now working on to progress towards the 5th item.  I can say without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that the 4 set bonus as it currently stands does not help me at all in my position.  I can say this with the utmost certainty as I am there at this time.

Anyhows I will leave it at that.  I would be interested in what off tank Paladins feel about the 4 set bonus and ways they feel it could be made so it can be embraced by the people who will use it for it's intended purpose as well as other Paladins in a similar situation to myself.

Regards

Kahling

[Brat]

I agree with you, guys. It could be a nice bonus, but it too weak for a 4 set item bonus.

[Crabshack]

This is a copy of the post I made on the paladin forum...

test copied a fresh character over.  All our TSO patterns are getting slight upgrades on mitigation, and a 5 set +500 HP bonus has been added.  Here is the bad news...

1) Our 4 set bonus has been changed AGAIN!  We now get "Increase healing of Divine Favor and decrease reuse by 30 seconds"!!!!!  This is TERRIBLE, regardless of what you guys thought of the previous 4 set, +10 base heals while you're OTing on a OT or MT healer was 1000x better than this.  

Without 4 set my Divine Favor healed for 21% and reuse was 4m 31s in my aa spec.  With the 4 set it changes to 26% and 4m 03s recast.  So our TSO 4 set, which is plenty hard to get now grants a 5% healing increase to a LEVEL 58 spell.  Keep in mind Divine Favor on test was reverted back and doesn't include it's previous stone skin, and still stifles and dazes you.  This is an absolute joke. 

2) lets take a real look at the new fabled patterns from the x2 zone.  The TSO (Zealous Voidbeam and Volcanic Knight are not equal in terms of their set bonuses.  The level of difficulty and skill required to even aquire a 4 set bonus on the TSO set is amazing.  Many players will never see even the 4 set bonus, let alone the 5 or 6 set.  The TSO patterns are the premier armor set here, and their set bonuses and stats should reflect that.      - TSO set bonuses are: 2)reduce refusal of atonement by 20s, 4) increase healing of death save by 5%, 5)+500hp, and 6) +10 mitigation increase.       - Volcanic Knights set bonuses are: 2)+30 int, +30 wis, 3) when you are damaged you taunt for 300, 5) +7 mitigation increase, 7) +750 HP.

Regardless of how many pieces of the Volcanic Knights armor you get the TSO armor should always be better and give better set bonuses.  If you're giving the x2 patterns +750 hp then the TSO armor should at least get the same.  In addition, the 3 set bonus on the Volcanic needs to be added back to the TSO armor.  This shouldn't even be up for discussion.  Adding it to the TSO armor, but then removing it and giving it to the x2 armor is crazy.  This effect would be tremendously useful in high end raiding and likely too powerful for the Volcanic Knight set if the TSO set isn't getting it.

So lets seriously think about the 4 set bonus for a moment.  Obviously the current live 4 set is better.  So what about the test 4 set?  What could make it better?  Right off the bat I would say that changing divine favor back to a 3 attack stoneskin with no daze stifle is obvious.  That needs to be done anyway.  But if we can't add that to live regardless of need, then make it the 4 set bonus.  Make the 4 set add a 3 attack stone skin + remove daze stifle effects.  That's logical, +5% healing is not.  Or, if the spell does get changed back to it's previous test version then you could make the 4 set add an additional trigger or two of stone skin, or maybe more than a 5% increase in hp healed.  Either way though, I'm not sure I agree with our T8 4 set bonus affecting a T6 spell that isn't really that great because of it's stifle component.  Don't get me wrong, the death save is awesome, especially when OTing and having to pick up a mob very quickly.  When picking up a mob to save the raid and then having the death save proc and stifle me because my healers weren't ready or paying attention, that's no fun and can do a lot of harm if I can't cancel it quickly.

Finally I want to through this one out there.  Currently both the Volcanic Knight's and TSO armor has 40 haste on the gloves.  This of course means pretty much everyone will have 40 haste in about 2 months.  How does that make sense?  Where is the reward for diving deeper into raid zones if all you're doing is breaking even on some stats?  Even a 5% haste increase on the TSO armor is logical.

From the looks of this we need to get the ball rolling on discussion again, this would be absolutely terrible if this new 4 set went live.  So devs please pay attention to this thread, this will be important

[644446592]

It's good what your set bonus change again. 4 or 5 times post 3 months. But you want too much imho. Look at stupid set bonuses on Berserker and SK sets. 2 and 4 bonuses is sucks. May be devs pay attention on other tank class in game. Hither and thither 4 times change one bonus...

[Stonestrong]

64444659213 wrote:

It's good what your set bonus change again. 4 or 5 times post 3 months. But you want too much imho. Look at stupid set bonuses on Berserker and SK sets. 2 and 4 bonuses is sucks. May be devs pay attention on other tank class in game. Hither and thither 4 times change one bonus...

I can't really understand your broken English but it sounds like you have a problem with us posting feedback about something on test? This is what the thread is for, so stop trolling. It might have been changed 3 or 4 times but never to what the community has asked for. You don't play a Paladin and don't have a 4 set, so why you feel the need to post on this topic is beyond me.The devs can pay attention to any tank classes they want but we are definitly in our rights to ask for something that is usefull for ours......

Stone 

[Jeal]

*agrees with stone on aforementioned sk troll on this post*

That aside.. my current guild is able to aquire 6 of the 7 set patterns.. i currently only have 4 (shadow shoulders/legs never drop!!!!.)  I am not normally in the mt role except for a couple of fights.. however.. i make use of  the current 4 set bonus on ONLY two fights. 

One of them i offtank adds on tythus and feel i don't need an avoidance bonus so i go ahead and give it to the mt for that one.

The other is Zarrakon which again since our guard is primary for that i give him my avoidance. 

Every other fight.. including penta/ulta which i MT for, it does not get used.. i'm either in dps gear thus voiding the bonus by not wearing 4 piece, or i'm wearing a split of vp/tso which still only gives me 3 tso pieces again voiding the bonus.

It does not help my survivability, it rarely helps the guards.. in which he has his own tools to assist himself why am i offering mine when i get none in return?

The change to divine favor is ok.. but 5% more 30 second reuse.. and still stifle?.. doesn't feel like much of a change to the initial spell to warrant a 4 set bonus.. this is only my raiding pally oppinion though.

Jeal

[Caetrel]

Speaking as a pally currently in 6 pieces of this gear atm...Utilizing Divine Favor as the 4 piece bonus could be good.  I am glad a change from the previous focus has been made.  However, 5% more heal is completely insignificant, and 30 sec off recast is nearly as insignificant...you have to wait many minutes for this to return either way.

In comparison, the VP 4 set bonus which gave 10 melee crit, spell crit, and double attack was a huge 4 pc bonus.  I would expect something on every class' 4 pc bonus to be something that seriously affects gameplay, as did our old VP/ RoK set bonus.

Any Paladin will tell you the stifle associated with Divine Favor is a big hinderance.  I would hope any focus or bonus for this ability would start with the removal of this penalty.  Other things to consider would be an additional trigger or a stoneskin.

As it is now, it is completely trivial for a 4 piece set bonus.

[Kahling]

double post, apologies.

[Kahling]

64444659213 wrote:

It's good what your set bonus change again. 4 or 5 times post 3 months. But you want too much imho. Look at stupid set bonuses on Berserker and SK sets. 2 and 4 bonuses is sucks. May be devs pay attention on other tank class in game. Hither and thither 4 times change one bonus...

Can we keep this thread constructive please.  If there is a problem with other classes set bonuses please start a thread regarding it, posting in other classes threads does nothing as the odd comment here or there regarding a different class in the wrong thread does not get on the dev radar and therefore serves no purpose other than to make the poster look silly.  We all like sillyness but this is too important.  The armour has been out for 5 months now and we therefore only have 7 months left to enjoy it.

The reason for this thread is currently that the player base that actually uses this stuff for its designed purpose feels that an oversight has been made due to the tank changes changing the spell they effect, this was a simple mistake to make as the tank changes have been on/off/on/off since January so I totally understand Fyreflytes error.

What leads me to believe it is an error?  Well the only thing that is more important than getting the set bonuses right is the armour stats and you can really see that the stats have been designed with the Paladin class in mind, Fyreflyte has done an awsome job on these and really given some thought to how they can be used to boost a Paladin raiding, for example heal crit on them, awsome.  This intelligent decision leads me to believe that the lack of forethought on the 4 set bonus is just a mistake.

What is important here is the mistake does not make it to the live enviroment or does not make it to live for long, I am still leaning towards the 2 and 4 set improving our heal/wards as the best bet as I said in my post previous, I doubt there will be many complaints regarding that and its a simple and elequent solution to whats been a problem for 5 months.

Regards

Kahling

[Kahling]

Hi,

As the current live update is today is there any chance we can get this on the radar for the next or maybe a hotfix or even a no?

Many thanks

Kahling

[Brat]

If you are not going to rework this bonus, replace it at least on "Increase a base amount of Prayer by 50% and adds healing component to it" or "Adds 10% damage reduction to Sigil of Heroism". It would improve our survivability.

[Oglock]

While the current live bonus isn't that great, its far superior to one on the test server.

[Maergoth]

As a fairly middle-of-the-road Paladin in the worldwide scheme of things, this change probably affects me and others in a similar situation more than most.

I don't see why the set bonuses, especially ours, have to be so god aweful. 5% more healed on an antideath with a reduced recast (Which still doesn't make it recastable mid-fight for most fights, unless it triggers immediately) is an obvious kick in the face for paladins.

It doesn't take starting a feedback thread to help you guys understand that it's a complete joke in its current state. Nothing about our anti death is appealing, and for the most part I don't even cast it as-is. Maintained or not, if you have another antideath when it triggers, you can stand around and do nothing for 12 seconds while surviving just as you would had you not used it at all.

If you're going to even consider a change to it, work in the proposed and LIKED idea from test: Leave it at 20-25% healed, add 2 stoneskin triggers and remove the stifle/daze.

I don't think it's time to argue a new possible change to one of our other abilities.. this is an already tested idea which should have never been ditched.

At this point, I'd rather have my old set bonus.. and I doubt this can all be a result of ignorance. Out of all the classes, we have spoken up and I don't see the point of feedback if it does get through and is blown off.

[Santi Dominiti]

I am sure Fyre has to be getting annoyed by us constantly posting on this topic so the question is...

Why not change it to something that we like, or is at least useful?

The heal going from 21% to 26% means nothing. If your healer can't get you up from 21% then being at 26% will not help you at all. Not to mention that we can't do anything when it procs for 12 seconds!

Get rid of the stun/stifle and increase the heal % to 50, that way if it does proc we have a chance to heal ourselves and with how hard the mobs are hitting in TSO the 50% heal will allow us to take 1 or 2 hits before we go down. I don't know how many times I have been trying to grab adds and for some reason or another I die and it gets procced. So for 12 sec I get to sit there and watch the adds eat the casters. It almost quicker to actully die and get rezzed at that point...

[Kahling]

Hi,

I hope you don't mind, just want to make sure this is on the dev radar, then Ill shut up about it.  Or if fyrelight needs more input on it then all you have to do is ask.

I realise there are probably only arround 20 Paladins this effects so a small number really so the work vs reward on changing it is low but the set bonuses on the raid armour are the greatest thing I strive for to be honest so when it is blatantly wrong it effects my play time more than anything.  In perspective probably the only higher thing would be the mythical weapon but thankfully you guys did an awsome job on that.

I really believe that if the 4 set added a 20% ward of the heal value of Paladin heals.  Or if it effected the spell Prayer in some way, or if it did more for the spell divine favour then you would have 20 very happy players

Hmm on reflection my statement of it only effecting 20 players is probably off.  Every thing that effects one class that appears to be wrong thereby effects the entire raid, thereby effects all raids in this case that can aquire 4 items.

In defence of bumping this thread I would also like to mention that there are only 7 months now in which to enjoy the raid armour.

In closeing I realise that this has been changed twice before, but the first change was to add an effect to a spell that a tank only uses in group play on a raid item, and the second change I really believe was a mistake based on tank changes that never came to fruition.  Also there are approx 6 people posted regarding this item.  So 6 people out of 20 is equivalent to a third of the people that can aquire the item being unhappy about it.

Many thanks in advance, shutting up now.

Kahling

[Troubor]

I don't know if it's "just" 20 paladins, but I have 4 TSO x4 pieces, so yes I was hit by this "wonderful" change also.  I'll be what I consider to be civil and just say that the developers made an oversight here.

I'd be happy going back to the one that was live, but if not, then at least look at this.  Why give us such a horrid set bonus?

Anyway, let's see if that promised greater level of communication does happen soon, and we get an answer to this.  Even a "Okay, we'll take it into consideration" from SOMEONE would give me more faith.

[Kahling]

To be honest the previous bonus that it gave was a loose situation for a Paladin while tanking.  It gave the target 5 % more mit, and 10% more heals.  All well and good but the loss in avoidance that you got from not having another tank put their avoidance on you negated any benifit.  So the only time that it was of benifit were in places where there was only one tank,  and thats in groups, these are raid items meant for raid progression, the previous 4 set bonus was a group bonus.

Im nto sure on the 20 Paladins either to be honest.  Gamewide how many Paladins are in raiding guilds that can kill mobs for the 4 items to make the bonus?  Not including people that buy them for plats.

TBH This one thing is making me extremely dissaulsioned.

Kahling

[Troubor]

Kahling@Kithicor wrote:

To be honest the previous bonus that it gave was a loose situation for a Paladin while tanking.  It gave the target 5 % more mit, and 10% more heals.  All well and good but the loss in avoidance that you got from not having another tank put their avoidance on you negated any benifit.  So the only time that it was of benifit were in places where there was only one tank,  and thats in groups, these are raid items meant for raid progression, the previous 4 set bonus was a group bonus.

Im nto sure on the 20 Paladins either to be honest.  Gamewide how many Paladins are in raiding guilds that can kill mobs for the 4 items to make the bonus?  Not including people that buy them for plats.

TBH This one thing is making me extremely dissaulsioned.

Kahling

Even if most disagree with me on liking the 5% more mit/10% heal boost (which is fine), yes I can understand otherwise and feel your frustration, along with everyone's here.  I wish someone on the development team would say something.  If they are boosting divine favor, even if it means a month or more wait while they try again on the fighter revamp, then well tell us that.  But something.  Sure, those of us with 4 or more pieces (especially getting it raiding, I did) are a minority.  But let's have some sort of fix.  One that fixes divine favor caters to ALL paladins since it's a spell, not a piece of loot.

Oh well.  Hopefully come November (or whenever, given how late Lavastorm was, I do wonder if the expansion will be done by November...) the new set of x4 armor won't have kind of pitiful set bonuses.

[Stonestrong]

Once again, the Divine Favor focus is a good idea. The manner in which it was applied though isn't thought out enough. This is a 4 set for the raiding Paladin, it should be pretty nice. Drop the penalties and make the heal more, or add the 2 stoneskin triggers on the end and NOBODY that is a raiding Paladin with half a clue on how to play his class could complain about that.

The base healing mod was ok for more utility, but if you want to do something like that  you could make it an enhanced AA to Bayles Leadership and just make it 10% with AA points in the TSO tree.

[Troubor]

Stonestrong wrote:

Once again, the Divine Favor focus is a good idea. The manner in which it was applied though isn't thought out enough. This is a 4 set for the raiding Paladin, it should be pretty nice. Drop the penalties and make the heal more, or add the 2 stoneskin triggers on the end and NOBODY that is a raiding Paladin with half a clue on how to play his class could complain about that.

The base healing mod was ok for more utility, but if you want to do something like that  you could make it an enhanced AA to Bayles Leadership and just make it 10% with AA points in the TSO tree.

Again, I can handle it if it stays a bonus to Divine Favor.  And I know I'm in the minority in liking the base healing mod one, so I can handle it if most dislike that or didn't see it as big of a deal as I did, that's fine.

Obviously I wouldn't complain about dropping the penalties and/or adding the stoneskin.  Me, I say make those changes to the spell proper though, so all paladins have a useful Divine Favor, not one that's of dubious use.  They could then add let's say 10 percent or more to the 4 set AA bonus for healing on Divine Favor.  Recast time is neither here nor there unless they make it a lot shorter, 30 second bonus to recast doesn't do much IMO, it's almost moot to even have that in the set bonus.

Having said that, if they make it no penalties and/or 2 stoneskins only through the set bonus, that would at least be a start.  It wouldn't fix the spell, but at least people with half (okay a bit over a half) of the TSO armor would have a notable set bonus again.

Anyway, I don't want to derail, just express my wishes.  I'll take ANY boost that is not a token one to the 4 set piece bonus, believe me we're on the same wavelength there.  Now to hope a developer is reading this. 

[Kahling]

Hi,

I agree here that the focus on divine favour is definately a good idea.  But its a small effect on a small spell.

I also agree that the spell divine favour should be a good spell for all on its own merits and therefore ask that the way it was on test during the tank changes be brough to live.

Then with the above change, upping the benifit of the 4 set bonus to halve the reuse time and were golden.

That way Paladins that do not raid get a proper death save in it with a 5 min reuse.

Paladins that raid get a raid worthy 4 set  bonus in that their very long reuse deathsave is halved in reuse time, remember here all were saying in halving the reuse is that you get to use the spell on average twice per encounter instead of once per encounter, it will still be every 2 1/2 mins and therefore not game breaking.

I motion amonst the Paladins posting here now that we push for the 4 set bonus halving the reuse of divine favour, and that divine favour be brought to the standard it was during the testing of the tank changes, and all get behing this.  No more messing about, change it once more and be done with it.  We have 7 months left to enjoy it, 5 months already gone.

I cannot express strongly enough how much the set bonuses have to be right for me as a player.  They lie only behind the mythical weapon being right (which it is thankfully), out of all the raid drops I strive for in TSO, the set pieces are the main thing for me as a raiding Paladin that does not do avataars.  I realise that the dev's have changed this twice before now.  And I realise that the last change was due to feedback, and I thank you for that, please consider the above change before it's too late and we have another expansion upon us.  Remember, with TSO progression is crit mit, and with that we are tied more so to our tso set items than ever before as other than avataar drops this is where the crit mit for progression is at.

Regards

kahling

[Maergoth]

After looking over the SK set bonuses compared to ours.. I would really love to see at least an aknowledgement of our frustrations with our set bonuses all-around. A simple reassurance that it is being re-evaluated would prevent all of these thought-out, whole-heartedly concerned bumps of a thread that should have been taken care of within the first week of it popping up.

This thread is about the 4 piece bonus, and I believe that needs taken care of first. Most paladins won't see past 4 pieces for a while.

[Caetrel]

For peeps who think we are annoying developers by asking to have the 4 set changed multiple times here is a little history of feedback and paladin raid armor.

*TSO Beta- Fireflyte asks each class to comment on the RoK VP bonuses and focii.  A Paladin thread is started, among many others, and the general consensus is that the Pally 4 piece bonus is the best on the set (remember 10 DA, spell, melee crit?).  The other pally set bonuses are criticized, the 4 pc is praised.

*TSO release- Paladin 4 piece is changed from VP set, but the 2 pc remains the same.  The one bonus we raved about was removed/ altered.  This new 4 piece bonus was the lame fighter block thing.  It was changed at least once until it gave 5%mit and 10% base heal to recipient.  This was pretty meh and as a bonus for our class, really made no sense.

*Test Server Feedback- During and after the now scrapped fighter revamp it was much tauted that Divine Favor be improved.  The prominent suggestions for this were remove the stifle/ daze, add a stoneskin, and/ or significantly increase the health amount.  It was also brought up that the long recast makes it not as useful as other tanks' abilities.

*Now- 5% more health and 30 sec recast red. on Divine Favor is our new 4 pc bonus.  Paladins wanted DF improved, and were unhappy with the 4 pc bonus- so, voila- now that the fighter revamp is scrapped the Devs could kill 2 birds with one stone. 

This could have beeen avoided by leaving the old VP bonus.  Instead, the wheel was reinvented multiple times, with nothing being worthwhile, in line with the flavor or use of the class, or acceptable, to the paladin community.  Funniest thing about this, the 2 pc bonus we have is really very useless and we said so on beta Forums...but next to the debacle of the 4 pc, it isn't even mentioned.

 TO BE CLEAR- I am at this point 100% for the 4 piece bonus being a Divine Favor enhancement- just one that is useful.  Significant health/ Reuse and/or penalty removal.  I am just amazed by the journey that got us to this point to begin with.

[Kahling]

Regarding what Fidelus  wrote amazed tbh.  Really am.  But lets put that in the past.  The new dialogue between devs and players will hopefully iron out stuff like that.

A flaw in this thread being in testing feedback is that when it was started it was a plea for help for somthing that was on test not going on live.  Not sure if the dev radar will see it here but I really hope so.  I would say that nearly 50% of the Paladins that can get the items to make a 4 set have now posted.

On the big plus side for the dev though is that were asking for the focus on divine favour to remain in most part just give a significant reduction in reuse time like 50% or so rather than the 10% now, so I imagine change a number from 30 seconds to 150 seconds and bobs your uncle.

[Jeal]

Kahling@Kithicor wrote:

Regarding what Fidelus  wrote amazed tbh.  Really am.  But lets put that in the past.  The new dialogue between devs and players will hopefully iron out stuff like that.

A flaw in this thread being in testing feedback is that when it was started it was a plea for help for somthing that was on test not going on live.  Not sure if the dev radar will see it here but I really hope so.  I would say that nearly 50% of the Paladins that can get the items to make a 4 set have now posted.

On the big plus side for the dev though is that were asking for the focus on divine favour to remain in most part just give a significant reduction in reuse time like 50% or so rather than the 10% now, so I imagine change a number from 30 seconds to 150 seconds and bobs your uncle.

reuse is not the answer to the divine favor problem...

it is a spell that should only go off if all else goes bad.. its a very nice save..

it needs to be a BETTER save.

NOT a save that can be used more often if your raid fails or healers hiccup.

[Stonestrong]

Troubor wrote:

Stonestrong wrote:

Once again, the Divine Favor focus is a good idea. The manner in which it was applied though isn't thought out enough. This is a 4 set for the raiding Paladin, it should be pretty nice. Drop the penalties and make the heal more, or add the 2 stoneskin triggers on the end and NOBODY that is a raiding Paladin with half a clue on how to play his class could complain about that.

The base healing mod was ok for more utility, but if you want to do something like that  you could make it an enhanced AA to Bayles Leadership and just make it 10% with AA points in the TSO tree.

Again, I can handle it if it stays a bonus to Divine Favor.  And I know I'm in the minority in liking the base healing mod one, so I can handle it if most dislike that or didn't see it as big of a deal as I did, that's fine.

Obviously I wouldn't complain about dropping the penalties and/or adding the stoneskin.  Me, I say make those changes to the spell proper though, so all paladins have a useful Divine Favor, not one that's of dubious use.  They could then add let's say 10 percent or more to the 4 set AA bonus for healing on Divine Favor.  Recast time is neither here nor there unless they make it a lot shorter, 30 second bonus to recast doesn't do much IMO, it's almost moot to even have that in the set bonus.

Having said that, if they make it no penalties and/or 2 stoneskins only through the set bonus, that would at least be a start.  It wouldn't fix the spell, but at least people with half (okay a bit over a half) of the TSO armor would have a notable set bonus again.

Anyway, I don't want to derail, just express my wishes.  I'll take ANY boost that is not a token one to the 4 set piece bonus, believe me we're on the same wavelength there.  Now to hope a developer is reading this. 

I'm all in favor of just making those changes to the spell aside fromt he 4 set, but i have been told that the Divine Favor changes were part of the shttity fighter revamp that they decided to roll back. While I will never complain about the fact they didn't push the fighter changes through, the fix to Divine Favor was defintily something that shoulda stayed or at least been considered seperately.

We have to keep in mind Divine Favor was absolutely useless untill TSO when they actually made it a decent save. So while its decent now, it has the potential to be really great either through a general change or what we are campaigning for here, a 4 set bonus. How about a little reperation for it being terrible since it came out up untill 6 months ago?

At the very least they should give us the respect of some type of acknowledgement to the subject. It's not like 1 or 2 people posted about it. You have had quite a few of the Paladins that actually raid posting on this topic. Do the right thing and push the changes back through that were intended for Divine Favor........

Stone

[Kahling]

If the dev's arent going to say anything I will.

I would like to thank the Paladins posting thus far for their feedback and the extremely respectfull way that they have presented it.  So many threads on here turn in to flames etc.  Given that this is an extremely important issue to the Paladins that can get 4 items to make a 4 set bonus people have shown the devs and each other great respect.  This is the sort of feedback the dev's want and I am sure it has not gone un noticed.  I have PM'd the dev in charge of the 4 set bonus asking them to read this thread, and although they have not replied I imagine they have read it and taken in under consideration.

I will add one thing to this topic.  If the set bonuses cannot be balanced then in the future you may as well just shove on the same for each archtype?  I know this is a very contended thing I just said but were now nearly half way in to the usage of the items and seriously I look at other tank's set bonuses with envy.  The guard chest for example, adds 300 hp to every single member of their group, ours shortens the recast on a heal by 20% which still puts it outside using it over 1 time per encounter, Guard 4 set adds a shield block.  Guard 2 set is the same as their vp 6 set was.

Bonus's should be balanced per encounter.  If there not then there pointless.

I motion 2 things.

1.  The devs change the 4 set bonus based on feedback in this thread.

2. The 2 set bonus (yes I know were all fighting for the 4 set here but it needs mentioning) change it to the VP 6 set bonus, shortening the reuse of holy ground by 30 seconds would free up some aa's for us to put elsewhere on the TSO tree.

If 2 muddys the waters then ignore it please.

Regards

Kahling

[Troubor]

It's been a week, so taking the liberty of bumping this.  Hopefully we'll get a reply from someone soon who's on the development team.