Norrath - Where the dishonest prosper

[HealerMathi]

I can appreciate the fix SOE, its relieving to see you're paying attention. It really makes me feel like a positive enviroment when I avoid exploiting an obvious fault in the game, yet see as little as possible done.

I, for one, can also appreciate how 2 days of progress in a newly release expansion is so vital to people. Especially when in essence the only people who have something of value (something of quite literal value) to lose are the very same exploiters that made well over 100s over plat over the course of two days.

What do I get? Surely my honest attitude and total avoidance towards temptation should have some sort of benefit? Perhap justice should atleast be served? No, instead after this joke of an issue takes place SOE merely makes the merchant stops and lets the exploiters make off like bandits.

Oh, sure the dumb ones got caught and rolled back. What about everything else? The plat laundering? The high priced roots sold across accounts?

Account I used to dupe 5k plat rolled back. Masters I bought and filtered thru guild bank to other accounts, not rolled back. Plat i sold to myself via broker on inflated raws (roots for 100p) not rolled back. SoE dropped the ball. No server roll backs, no serious effort to stop the abuse

Where's the justice? Next time theres an exploit I am going to abuse it and I  am going to trade all the gained assets to muel accounts just to spite SOE, afterall. They don't care entirely, why should I?

[Junaru]

Yeah I was pretty bummed when a Master I was looking to buy vanish off the broker. No not 1 copy but 6 copies of it. It will takes months to recover from this. Sadly it makes me wish I had taken advantage of the exploits.

[Kordran]

Vendella@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Surely my honest attitude and total avoidance towards temptation should have some sort of benefit?

It does. You can look yourself in the mirror and know that you're not a cheating scumbag.

Edit: And I would point out that because some cheaters haven't been punished yet doesn't mean that they're not going to be punished at all. If they're doing this on a case-by-case basis, then I would imagine it's going to take some time for them to analyze the logs and trace who did what. People who think they've gotten away with something may have a rude awakening in the days ahead.

[Kizee]

Kordran wrote:

Vendella@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Surely my honest attitude and total avoidance towards temptation should have some sort of benefit?

It does. You can look yourself in the mirror and know that you're not a cheating scumbag.

Edit: And I would point out that because some cheaters haven't been punished yet doesn't mean that they're not going to be punished at all. If they're doing this on a case-by-case basis, then I would imagine it's going to take some time for them to analyze the logs and trace who did what. People who think they've gotten away with something may have a rude awakening in the days ahead.

Where as if they rolled back the server at the end of day 1 or 2 the honest players wouldn't have to ponder how many people got away with the duping .

[HealerMathi]

Duly noted and I for one want to say that as a paying customer, I expect anyone who exploited this issue to be rolled back and I trust SOE will look a bit deeper than the primary accounts

[Jrral]

Don't get too cocky. SOE has complete economy logs, details on every single transaction, and the tools to trace through them. It just takes time. They're unlikely to do a complete server rollback, more likely they're just nailing the easy stuff first and will be moving on to the more time-consuming things (like tracing the economy logs to find where duped plat went, so they can undo those transactions) shortly. Don't fret, though, if you really did dupe an account then bringing it up here will just bump up your priority in the "things to be dealt with" list.

[Flotten]

Ok, a pet peve!

Why is everyone saying "duping", that isnt the correct term here, there is no dupe. A dupe is when you can "duplicate" an object, thats not whats happening.  Making plat by exploiting vendor pricing is NOT a dupe.

[Kordran]

Kizee wrote:

Where as if they rolled back the server at the end of day 1 or 2 the honest players wouldn't have to ponder how many people got away with the duping .

First of all, it wasn't a dupe; nothing was being duplicated, items were not being created out of thin air. It was people exploiting NPC vendors who were paying too much for trash items.

Secondly, I don't see why there's a need to worry about who's getting away with what. You seem to have this attitude of "[Removed for Content], if I knew I could get away with cheating, I would have cheated" and I will say again that I think it's a lousy position to take. Chosing to do the right thing should be its own reward, IMHO.

[Kizee]

Kordran wrote:

Kizee wrote:

Where as if they rolled back the server at the end of day 1 or 2 the honest players wouldn't have to ponder how many people got away with the duping .

First of all, it wasn't a dupe; nothing was being duplicated, items were not being created out of thin air. It was people exploiting NPC vendors who were paying too much for trash items.

Secondly, I don't see why there's a need to worry about who's getting away with what. You seem to have this attitude of "[Removed for Content], if I knew I could get away with cheating, I would have cheated" and I will say again that I think it's a lousy position to take. Chosing to do the right thing should be its own reward, IMHO.

/shrug

SoE had an easy way out with a roll back.

Now everybody that wouldn't normally cheat, like me, will think twice next time this happens since now we will have to live with the repercussions of what happen this time around.

[Théodwyn]

I just really can't understand all the clammoring for a rollback.

"Wipe it all clean!  Make it not happen!  The economy is tanked, all the people who were questing, crafting, grinding, or whatever shouldn't mind.  Resetting the economy is in their best interest anyway!"

Sounds like all of the worst parts of socialism to me.

You know...  when you play in the playground, there's always the chance that some kid peed in the barkdust that you land in when you go down the slide.  Didn't you all learn this as children?

Dust yourself off, don't call the yard duty or cry to your mother to make it not happen.

People...  you do realize that you're paying [Removed for Content] good money to play a game that has other people in it, right?  And the truth is that some of them are crooked.  You knew that right?  Before you spent your hard earned money on it, right?

Geez.

[Cloudrat]

Too bad they didn't apply this to the test server first so that it could have been prevented altogether

[Anesh]

Théodwyn wrote:

I just really can't understand all the clammoring for a rollback.

"Wipe it all clean!  Make it not happen!  The economy is tanked, all the people who were questing, crafting, grinding, or whatever shouldn't mind.  Resetting the economy is in their best interest anyway!"

Sounds like all of the worst parts of socialism to me.

You know...  when you play in the playground, there's always the chance that some kid peed in the barkdust that you land in when you go down the slide.  Didn't you all learn this as children?

Dust yourself off, don't call the yard duty or cry to your mother to make it not happen.

People...  you do realize that you're paying [Removed for Content] good money to play a game that has other people in it, right?  And the truth is that some of them are crooked.  You knew that right?  Before you spent your hard earned money on it, right?

Geez.

Lame.

It's not black and white (there are pros and cons to rollback vs. other methods), and you cannot create a logical analogy out of it by using childhood/pee/playground metaphors. Geez- how old are you?

[TheVorax]

Théodwyn wrote:

""Wipe it all clean!  Make it not happen!  The economy is tanked, all the people who were questing, crafting, grinding, or whatever shouldn't mind.  Resetting the economy is in their best interest anyway!"

Sounds like all of the worst parts of socialism to me."

"People...  you do realize that you're paying [Removed for Content] good money to play a game that has other people in it, right?  And the truth is that some of them are crooked.  You knew that right?  Before you spent your hard earned money on it, right?

Geez."

Capatilism only works if people are held accountable for their dishonesty...so that point makes no sense.

Regarding the cheating:  I think that's the point.  People are paying money to play this game.  If it were free, then sure..you get what you pay for.  As it is now, we are paying to be at a disadvantage to those who would cheat. 

Roll back - please.  I'll loose some nice loot and a couple of AA, my wife will loose a level and some collections, but I'd rather take the hit then be at a disadvantage going forward...cuz I pay for this game.

[Sprin]

Théodwyn wrote:

people...  you do realize that you're paying [Removed for Content] good money to play a game that has other people in it, right?  And the truth is that some of them are crooked.  You knew that right?  Before you spent your hard earned money on it, right?

Geez.

And you realize that im paying [Removed for Content] good money to a company that should regulate and police the crooked people in it... and if they dont, we certainly have the right and the obligation to complain and ask for the regulation and policing to take place... especially if it benefits the good of 1000's and 1000's of people over the good of a handful

[Amise]

Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:

Théodwyn wrote:

people...  you do realize that you're paying [Removed for Content] good money to play a game that has other people in it, right?  And the truth is that some of them are crooked.  You knew that right?  Before you spent your hard earned money on it, right?

Geez.

And you realize that im paying [Removed for Content] good money to a company that should regulate and police the crooked people in it... and if they dont, we certainly have the right and the obligation to complain and ask for the regulation and policing to take place... especially if it benefits the good of 1000's and 1000's of people over the good of a handful

Except that the people playing the game aren't in the company. The exploiters are customers, not employees.

You certainly have the right to complain about how they handle it but SOE also has the right to handle it how they wish.

Personally I think this solution is better than a roll-back. I don't want to pay for the mistakes of dishonest people, and I would be paying a higher price through a roll-back than with the option SOE chose.

[Jhot]

The day i cheat in this game, will be my last day on it. Even if i have 100% guarantee of not getting caught, im not doing it. It is totally against my gamer soul.

Cheers for the people who knew it and reported instead of getting profit of it, you are the people i want to play with.

[TheVorax]

Amise wrote:

Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:

Personally I think this solution is better than a roll-back. I don't want to pay for the mistakes of dishonest people, and I would be paying a higher price through a roll-back than with the option SOE chose.

That depends a lot on the stage of your toon though.  For me, I'm trying to get my masters and other gear/adornments/rares.  If they are all bought up because some exploiters had the cash to do so, it's a higher price to pay having to wait for them to be on the market again, at any kind of price I can afford.  I'm paying a price in both cases, but at least with a roll-back someone else isn't benefiting.

[Deadeyes]

Ive been banned in other SoE games for less.

[Rayche]

I sold some stuff YEARS and YEARS ago, to a vendor at more than what it should have been worth. (For a trivial amount of money honestly)

My account was permenantly banned a few weeks later. (Btw, this killed my EQ1 AND EQ2 account)

It's simply not worth it. They WILL act on it.

[Théodwyn]

Aneshia@Oasis wrote:

Lame.

It's not black and white (there are pros and cons to rollback vs. other methods), and you cannot create a logical analogy out of it by using childhood/pee/playground metaphors. Geez- how old are you?

Well then, I'm sorry my analogy seems to have offended you.  I actually found it kind of funny.

Alright then; if I may consider myself sufficiently chastised, I would love to hear a complete and considered view of why a rollback is the best way to handle it.

[Thunndar316]

It's not the customers responsibility to report to SOE what it's game is doing wrong.  Also this is not an exploit.  If SOE doesn't want merchants paying too much for items then code them correctly. 

Now, I did not get anything from this debacle, and I am mad that the economy is officially wrecked because of it.  Platinum will be inflated driving prices of masters up while the normal players get nothing to make up for the higher costs. 

I think it's pretty obvious who the people are that benefitted from this and SOE should roll THEM back.  Not all of us. 

A person purchasing hundreds of platinum in fuels - Obvious

A person selling any items to their alts or additional accounts for plat - Obvious

[Yimway]

This is exactly why I asked for a rollback the night of the release.  SoE has logs, and will try to clean up the worst cases, however as quickly as coin can change hands in a buying frenzy, it will be very hard to deliniate between the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys'.

[feldon30]

Want to see hundreds of people quit EQ2? Roll back the servers. Dumbest idea I've ever seen.

If you remove my efforts over the last 3 days even though I did nothing wrong, all in the interest of punishing a few, I will quit the game.

[Boramyr]

Guys its already been said here SOE logs EVERYTHING.  I mean EVERYTHING.  Their reporting abilities are scary.  I imagine that rather than ruin 1000's of peoples advancement through those first few days they can take the time to fix the 10's, maybe 100's of people that bugged out.  Round one you hit all the easy stuff clean up as much as you can.  Then I would imagine they need a Customer service team parsing these things out over a couple days to get it all sewn up but I have no doubts that the cheaters will be delt with. 

As an example I had a customer service tickets a few months back after the Earring of the Waste Hunter was changed to included Ranged Crit.  Only I hadn't even noticed the change for a few months and I had long sinced transmuted the other reward I had gotten from the quest I did a week after ROK had launched.  I submited a petition asking nicely if I could get the new changed reward and explaining I had done the quest early didn't remember what reward I had picked, transmuted it and had no idea if I'd gotten an infusion or Mana but they were welcome to take an infusion from me. 

The GM was able to tell when I had completed the quest exactly what reward I had picked how many days I'd sat on it before transmuting and that I had transmuted it for a powder and swapped me out one powder for one earring of the wastes hunter and again Months after that all happened. 

I"m not worried in this situation, they'll get it fixed. 

[Boramyr]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

This is exactly why I asked for a rollback the night of the release.  SoE has logs, and will try to clean up the worst cases, however as quickly as coin can change hands in a buying frenzy, it will be very hard to deliniate between the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys'.

well people won't get punished but tainted goods will be removed.  Best right now not to buy or sell anything but consumables for a while. 

[bryldan]

Thunndar316 wrote:

It's not the customers responsibility to report to SOE what it's game is doing wrong.  Also this is not an exploit.  If SOE doesn't want merchants paying too much for items then code them correctly. 

Now, I did not get anything from this debacle, and I am mad that the economy is officially wrecked because of it.  Platinum will be inflated driving prices of masters up while the normal players get nothing to make up for the higher costs. 

I think it's pretty obvious who the people are that benefitted from this and SOE should roll THEM back.  Not all of us. 

A person purchasing hundreds of platinum in fuels - Obvious

A person selling any items to their alts or additional accounts for plat - Obvious

It is not your neighbors job to report that person who just stoled everything in your house right? Afterall that is the police job right??

As for a rollback i will just say this HECK NO. If they roll my char back I will be highly [Removed for Content] off considering I did nothing wrong yet getting hurt by something that is beyond me. A rollback is NOT going to solve the real issue and the real issue is the people who cheated not the ppl who did not. If you rollback that will be that and those idiots that still did this will still be in the game to find the next exploit to use.

[Kiara]

It was not necessary to start a new thread about this matter when there's a big healthy one right here.

Furthermore, it is not company policy to distribute information about actions against an individual's account.

So whilst matters will be dealt with, we won't be broadcasting that information and people shouldn't be asking for it.

Thanks all!