Death in a T8 raid

Davngr1 · 09-26-2008, 10:47 PM

i ben thinking about how most raid names now a days are healed for 2%(of 20000000 or soemthing HP) everytime some one dies, so im wondering if items/spells that lead to death should be changed to something that will not hinder the raid/group. the items/spells im talking about are the exothermic life/mana stone and the necro spell Lifeburn (feel free to add any i might have missed to the list).

i would think that:

#1 making the exothermic mana/life stones just be an up grade to the T7 version(overclocked) maybe 5% chance to drain 17% mana and 95% to give 32% mana or something would be optimal.

#2 making lifeburn a one shot deal that takes the necro to 10% hp and reduce the recast to 2 minutes or maybe lower the ratio of hp to dmg and lower the recast to 1 min.

any how just some suggestions to get more/better use out of current content. i know i personaly never use the exothermic life/mana stone and even if i do use life burn i feel it's a huge burden on the group/raid when you take into consideration the fact that if the necro dies he probly heals the mob for as much as the lifeburn did in damage if not more.

Noaani · 09-27-2008, 01:43 AM

The lifestones/manastones should not heal mobs. These items are a sacrifice on one players behalf to the benefit of the rest of his group, it should not hinder the raid as a whole for him to do so.

No Necromancer should ever die from Lifeburn. If you do not have enough healers to keep you up, do not cast it (much like a wizard should not use Manaburn unless there is enough power regen). If you have 5+ healers in the raid (for all but about 3 mobs in the game) then you healers should be able to keep you up, if they don't they need to be told to stop slacking, or the necro needs to be told to not use lifeburn when the tank needs healing.

simpwrx02 · 09-27-2008, 02:13 AM

Can i get manaburn to use 100% of my possible mana instead of the mana I have...

Davngr1 · 09-27-2008, 07:38 AM

Noaani wrote:

The lifestones/manastones should not heal mobs. These items are a sacrifice on one players behalf to the benefit of the rest of his group, it should not hinder the raid as a whole for him to do so.
No Necromancer should ever die from Lifeburn. If you do not have enough healers to keep you up, do not cast it (much like a wizard should not use Manaburn unless there is enough power regen). If you have 5+ healers in the raid (for all but about 3 mobs in the game) then you healers should be able to keep you up, if they don't they need to be told to stop slacking, or the necro needs to be told to not use lifeburn when the tank needs healing.

do you know this to be true? in fact when some one uses the mana/lifestone, does the mob not heal? i really don't konw but would never use these in a name encouter because of it.

the lifeburn thing, i just wish would not require a healers attention for the full ten seconds.. it should just be one solid hit(like manaburn) and be done with it and it should not take the necro down to 1hp. either way life burn is just one more reason that necros are not liked in raids since they require so much from healers. a subtel change like this would be far far from over powering, since it would net the exact same dmg.

Davngr1 · 09-27-2008, 07:40 AM

simpwrx02 wrote:

Can i get manaburn to use 100% of my possible mana instead of the mana I have...

can i get you to make sense? at least noaani makes valid points to argue...

Soulforged_Unre · 09-27-2008, 11:32 AM

Davngr1 wrote:

Noaani wrote:
The lifestones/manastones should not heal mobs. These items are a sacrifice on one players behalf to the benefit of the rest of his group, it should not hinder the raid as a whole for him to do so.
No Necromancer should ever die from Lifeburn. If you do not have enough healers to keep you up, do not cast it (much like a wizard should not use Manaburn unless there is enough power regen). If you have 5+ healers in the raid (for all but about 3 mobs in the game) then you healers should be able to keep you up, if they don't they need to be told to stop slacking, or the necro needs to be told to not use lifeburn when the tank needs healing.
do you know this to be true? in fact when some one uses the mana/lifestone, does the mob not heal? i really don't konw but would never use these in a name encouter because of it.
Do you know the difference between should and does?

Edit: Removed a comment after I did some calculations.

Soulforged_Unre · 09-27-2008, 11:35 AM

Davngr1 wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:
Can i get manaburn to use 100% of my possible mana instead of the mana I have...
can i get you to make sense? at least noaani makes valid points to argue...

He's referring (I believe) to your comment about an improvement to lifeburn to just take you down to 10% and make it a one shot deal. What you didn't mention is with that change is whether the health level that you're at affects how much damage that the one shot deal would give. In light of your comment, he's asking if at the same time they can change manaburn to always take into account the wizards total power pool instead of just how much usable mana they have left when they fire it off.

Meridia · 09-27-2008, 02:22 PM

i seem to remember my t7 raiding necros toggling OFF lifeburn if they got too low and the healer wasnt keeping them up adequately...you dont have to let it go the entire ten seconds SMILEY

or.... you could... /gasp not use it?

Davngr1 · 09-27-2008, 02:43 PM

Soulforged_Unrest wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:
simpwrx02 wrote:
Can i get manaburn to use 100% of my possible mana instead of the mana I have...
can i get you to make sense? at least noaani makes valid points to argue...
He's referring (I believe) to your comment about an improvement to lifeburn to just take you down to 10% and make it a one shot deal. What you didn't mention is with that change is whether the health level that you're at affects how much damage that the one shot deal would give. In light of your comment, he's asking if at the same time they can change manaburn to always take into account the wizards total power pool instead of just how much usable mana they have left when they fire it off.

yea.. that's not the point of thread.

Davngr1 · 09-27-2008, 02:46 PM

Meridia@Crushbone wrote:

i seem to remember my t7 raiding necros toggling OFF lifeburn if they got too low and the healer wasnt keeping them up adequately...you dont have to let it go the entire ten seconds or.... you could... /gasp not use it?

Gasp! that's the point no one is using the exothermic life/mana stones and lifeburn is just ONE more strike against a broken class.

simpwrx02 · 09-27-2008, 04:42 PM

No one is using the life/mana stones cuz they are stupid, there is almost no situation where some one killing themself to give the group power. There are already a large magnitude of power sources out there. I think a better version of the 2 stones woudl be to give the group the power gains, but take that power/life pool of the giver down to 1 it is still a major hit to the caster, just not as severe as killing the caster.

Mobs healing on death really is not hard to combat. I only brought up manaburn as it and lifeburn are basically designed to be the exact same so I woudl support a lifeburn being based on max health for damage potential and only taking the caster down to 10% health as long as manaburn has the exact same effects. As of right now lifeburn is a staple of every single raiding necro and manaburn is a staple of every wizard that raids, in a guild with mythicals that has a illy and troub in the group. Yes a lifeburnin necro may die once in a blue moon if thier healer goes LD, but in reality it is used on a mob as soon as it is available and recovery is done in ~5 secodns from the end of the spell til necro is once again at full health, so yeah lifeburn shoudl not even be part of this discussion unless your healers totally suck, however I woudl support the changes to the 'Burn" spells.

danmuntz · 09-28-2008, 02:26 PM

Meridia@Crushbone wrote:

i seem to remember my t7 raiding necros toggling OFF lifeburn if they got too low and the healer wasnt keeping them up adequately...you dont have to let it go the entire ten seconds or.... you could... /gasp not use it?

Or the healers can, /gasp, heal?

Davngr1 · 09-28-2008, 02:37 PM

the facts are that no one is using the exothermic mana/life stones AND at the current time necros are a raid parasite down to the noxious dmg. i feel making these two items/abilitys more T8 raid friendly would benefit THE GAME... keep in mind this is not just ONE complicated end game mob, this is almost ALL T8 raid name mobs that heal for 2% everytime some one dies.

danmuntz · 09-28-2008, 02:48 PM

So stop dying? Raiding is already pretty much easy-mode in RoK.

Davngr1 · 09-28-2008, 02:50 PM

Anap@Crushbone wrote:

So stop dying? Raiding is already pretty much easy-mode in RoK.

your dumbness is amazing man.....

danmuntz · 09-28-2008, 03:26 PM

No seriously, just don't die and the whole 2% heal per death thing you bring up is out the window. It's not hard. If you're having to use exothermic lifestones and manastones to begin with, there's bigger problems that need to be addressed within your raid. Tell the healers to stop slacking, or get some decent power regen in your group. There shouldn't be a reason to have to use exothermic anything in a raid.

Davngr1 · 09-28-2008, 03:40 PM

Anap@Crushbone wrote:

No seriously, just don't die and the whole 2% heal per death thing you bring up is out the window. It's not hard.If you're having to use exothermic lifestones and manastones to begin with, there's bigger problems that need to be addressed within your raid. Tell the healers to stop slacking, or get some decent power regen in your group. There shouldn't be a reason to have to use exothermic anything in a raid.

grats on missing the point of the thread... BTW as always you have quite the flair for pointing out the obvious

09-27-2008, 07:38 AM	#4
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	Noaani wrote: The lifestones/manastones should not heal mobs. These items are a sacrifice on one players behalf to the benefit of the rest of his group, it should not hinder the raid as a whole for him to do so. No Necromancer should ever die from Lifeburn. If you do not have enough healers to keep you up, do not cast it (much like a wizard should not use Manaburn unless there is enough power regen). If you have 5+ healers in the raid (for all but about 3 mobs in the game) then you healers should be able to keep you up, if they don't they need to be told to stop slacking, or the necro needs to be told to not use lifeburn when the tank needs healing. do you know this to be true? in fact when some one uses the mana/lifestone, does the mob not heal? i really don't konw but would never use these in a name encouter because of it. the lifeburn thing, i just wish would not require a healers attention for the full ten seconds.. it should just be one solid hit(like manaburn) and be done with it and it should not take the necro down to 1hp. either way life burn is just one more reason that necros are not liked in raids since they require so much from healers. a subtel change like this would be far far from over powering, since it would net the exact same dmg. __________________

09-27-2008, 07:40 AM	#5
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	simpwrx02 wrote: Can i get manaburn to use 100% of my possible mana instead of the mana I have... can i get you to make sense? at least noaani makes valid points to argue... __________________

09-27-2008, 11:32 AM	#6
Soulforged_Unre General Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 450	Davngr1 wrote: Noaani wrote: The lifestones/manastones should not heal mobs. These items are a sacrifice on one players behalf to the benefit of the rest of his group, it should not hinder the raid as a whole for him to do so. No Necromancer should ever die from Lifeburn. If you do not have enough healers to keep you up, do not cast it (much like a wizard should not use Manaburn unless there is enough power regen). If you have 5+ healers in the raid (for all but about 3 mobs in the game) then you healers should be able to keep you up, if they don't they need to be told to stop slacking, or the necro needs to be told to not use lifeburn when the tank needs healing. do you know this to be true? in fact when some one uses the mana/lifestone, does the mob not heal? i really don't konw but would never use these in a name encouter because of it. Do you know the difference between should and does? Edit: Removed a comment after I did some calculations.

09-27-2008, 11:35 AM	#7
Soulforged_Unre General Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 450	Davngr1 wrote: simpwrx02 wrote: Can i get manaburn to use 100% of my possible mana instead of the mana I have... can i get you to make sense? at least noaani makes valid points to argue... He's referring (I believe) to your comment about an improvement to lifeburn to just take you down to 10% and make it a one shot deal. What you didn't mention is with that change is whether the health level that you're at affects how much damage that the one shot deal would give. In light of your comment, he's asking if at the same time they can change manaburn to always take into account the wizards total power pool instead of just how much usable mana they have left when they fire it off.

09-27-2008, 02:22 PM	#8
Meridia Server: Crushbone Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 143	i seem to remember my t7 raiding necros toggling OFF lifeburn if they got too low and the healer wasnt keeping them up adequately...you dont have to let it go the entire ten seconds or.... you could... /gasp not use it? __________________ Sometimes, a little brain damage can help. - George Carlin

09-26-2008, 10:47 PM	#1
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	i ben thinking about how most raid names now a days are healed for 2%(of 20000000 or soemthing HP) everytime some one dies, so im wondering if items/spells that lead to death should be changed to something that will not hinder the raid/group. the items/spells im talking about are the exothermic life/mana stone and the necro spell Lifeburn (feel free to add any i might have missed to the list). i would think that: #1 making the exothermic mana/life stones just be an up grade to the T7 version(overclocked) maybe 5% chance to drain 17% mana and 95% to give 32% mana or something would be optimal. #2 making lifeburn a one shot deal that takes the necro to 10% hp and reduce the recast to 2 minutes or maybe lower the ratio of hp to dmg and lower the recast to 1 min. any how just some suggestions to get more/better use out of current content. i know i personaly never use the exothermic life/mana stone and even if i do use life burn i feel it's a huge burden on the group/raid when you take into consideration the fact that if the necro dies he probly heals the mob for as much as the lifeburn did in damage if not more. __________________

09-27-2008, 01:43 AM	#2
Noaani Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,077	The lifestones/manastones should not heal mobs. These items are a sacrifice on one players behalf to the benefit of the rest of his group, it should not hinder the raid as a whole for him to do so. No Necromancer should ever die from Lifeburn. If you do not have enough healers to keep you up, do not cast it (much like a wizard should not use Manaburn unless there is enough power regen). If you have 5+ healers in the raid (for all but about 3 mobs in the game) then you healers should be able to keep you up, if they don't they need to be told to stop slacking, or the necro needs to be told to not use lifeburn when the tank needs healing. __________________ The superior man knows what is right. The inferior man knows what will sell. Confucius

09-27-2008, 02:13 AM	#3
simpwrx02 Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 919	Can i get manaburn to use 100% of my possible mana instead of the mana I have...

09-27-2008, 02:43 PM	#9
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	Soulforged_Unrest wrote: Davngr1 wrote: simpwrx02 wrote: Can i get manaburn to use 100% of my possible mana instead of the mana I have... can i get you to make sense? at least noaani makes valid points to argue... He's referring (I believe) to your comment about an improvement to lifeburn to just take you down to 10% and make it a one shot deal. What you didn't mention is with that change is whether the health level that you're at affects how much damage that the one shot deal would give. In light of your comment, he's asking if at the same time they can change manaburn to always take into account the wizards total power pool instead of just how much usable mana they have left when they fire it off. yea.. that's not the point of thread. __________________

09-27-2008, 02:46 PM	#10
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	Meridia@Crushbone wrote: i seem to remember my t7 raiding necros toggling OFF lifeburn if they got too low and the healer wasnt keeping them up adequately...you dont have to let it go the entire ten seconds or.... you could... /gasp not use it? Gasp! that's the point no one is using the exothermic life/mana stones and lifeburn is just ONE more strike against a broken class. __________________

09-27-2008, 04:42 PM	#11
simpwrx02 Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 919	No one is using the life/mana stones cuz they are stupid, there is almost no situation where some one killing themself to give the group power. There are already a large magnitude of power sources out there. I think a better version of the 2 stones woudl be to give the group the power gains, but take that power/life pool of the giver down to 1 it is still a major hit to the caster, just not as severe as killing the caster. Mobs healing on death really is not hard to combat. I only brought up manaburn as it and lifeburn are basically designed to be the exact same so I woudl support a lifeburn being based on max health for damage potential and only taking the caster down to 10% health as long as manaburn has the exact same effects. As of right now lifeburn is a staple of every single raiding necro and manaburn is a staple of every wizard that raids, in a guild with mythicals that has a illy and troub in the group. Yes a lifeburnin necro may die once in a blue moon if thier healer goes LD, but in reality it is used on a mob as soon as it is available and recovery is done in ~5 secodns from the end of the spell til necro is once again at full health, so yeah lifeburn shoudl not even be part of this discussion unless your healers totally suck, however I woudl support the changes to the 'Burn" spells.

09-28-2008, 02:26 PM	#12
danmuntz Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 95	Meridia@Crushbone wrote: i seem to remember my t7 raiding necros toggling OFF lifeburn if they got too low and the healer wasnt keeping them up adequately...you dont have to let it go the entire ten seconds or.... you could... /gasp not use it? Or the healers can, /gasp, heal? __________________

09-28-2008, 02:37 PM	#13
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	the facts are that no one is using the exothermic mana/life stones AND at the current time necros are a raid parasite down to the noxious dmg. i feel making these two items/abilitys more T8 raid friendly would benefit THE GAME... keep in mind this is not just ONE complicated end game mob, this is almost ALL T8 raid name mobs that heal for 2% everytime some one dies. __________________

09-28-2008, 02:48 PM	#14
danmuntz Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 95	So stop dying? Raiding is already pretty much easy-mode in RoK. __________________

09-28-2008, 02:50 PM	#15
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	Anap@Crushbone wrote: So stop dying? Raiding is already pretty much easy-mode in RoK. your dumbness is amazing man..... __________________

09-28-2008, 03:26 PM	#16
danmuntz Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 95	No seriously, just don't die and the whole 2% heal per death thing you bring up is out the window. It's not hard. If you're having to use exothermic lifestones and manastones to begin with, there's bigger problems that need to be addressed within your raid. Tell the healers to stop slacking, or get some decent power regen in your group. There shouldn't be a reason to have to use exothermic anything in a raid. __________________

09-28-2008, 03:40 PM	#17
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	Anap@Crushbone wrote: No seriously, just don't die and the whole 2% heal per death thing you bring up is out the window. It's not hard.If you're having to use exothermic lifestones and manastones to begin with, there's bigger problems that need to be addressed within your raid. Tell the healers to stop slacking, or get some decent power regen in your group. There shouldn't be a reason to have to use exothermic anything in a raid. grats on missing the point of the thread... BTW as always you have quite the flair for pointing out the obvious __________________