Raid Guild Dirty Tricks?

[Hanoverian]

Tell me what you think.  Here is what happened last night.

A raid guild sent out a call for EH.  When I heard this, I was pretty excited because I'm trying to obtain the Fabled EoF set and I already have one piece from MMIS.  There were about 7-10 players from the raid guild, and the rest of the 24 were pick ups.   The raid guild, of course, were the raid leaders.  The rules were the usual rules...one Treasured, one Legendary, and one Fabled per player. 

We start clearing the trash mobs and an ornate chest drops.  It contains a legendary item (the green seed pod thing used for crafting I think), and it gets looted by the raid leader, with no /rans for anyone else who might want it.   OK, I'm thinking that they will divide the tradeable stuff up after.  Another trash mob drops a Fabled cloak, Cloak of the Fae.  Very nice cloak for a human scout (like me) as it gives +30 AGI and adds fae fall when equipped.  They ask who wants it and to /ran if you do.  I didn't roll on it because I was hoping to get a class piece from the names that drop those.  In fact, no one rolled on it because everyone wanted to save their Fabled for a chance at a class piece.  So, the raid guild leader looted it. 

On we go and we kill Mistress of the Veil.  This is the first name we kill.  She doesn't drop Fabled class piece, at least not the ones that are class specific.  She dropped a Master spell and a leather Fabled set piece that can be used by Scouts, Priests or Fighters.  Again, not a class specific piece.  Again, no one wanted to roll on these as we were waiting for the Fabled specific class set pieces from other names. 

I had the Seedling named on track and told everyone it was there.  At this point, I'm thinking that, since we have cleared all the trash, its time to start getting the good names.   So what happens?  The hosting guild says, "OK that's it.  Thanks for coming."  Raid over. 

In my view, this guild used us to clear the trash.  Now that the tedious part is out of the way, they can come back with a complete "guild only" raid and take the rest for themselves since EH is a persistent zone.

You might say "yeah, but you can come back too and form your own raid," and that's true.  But what really bugs me is that I don't think they had any intention of going after the other names.  Had I known that, I would have rolled on the stuff that dropped.

One solution would be to change EH to a non persistent zone.  Once we go in, you have to clear it or you are locked out.  That would prevent crap like this from happening.    

  

   

[Jesdyr]

Dont join a raid with them again .. and if you see them calling for people, make sure to warn others about what they have done in the past.

[Razlath]

As much as this sucks, I don't think changing the zone to non-persistent is the answer.

Instead I think the answer is never pickup raid with that guild again.  If they do truly have a raid force and were just using the pickup raid then you won't have any real effect on them.  But if they are used to using pickup raids and enough people do this they will be impacted by what they did.

If you are feeling particularly open you might send an in-game email to the raid leader voicing your complaints and see if you get a reasonable response back.  Maybe there is some benign excuse as to why this happened (not saying it is the case, cuz it certainly sounds fishy to me).

If you see them advertising for a pickup raid again, you can ask in the same channel if they plan on killing any nameds this time, or trash only?  It will at least force them to answer up front whether they plan on doing the zone for real or not.

[Gwarsh]

they may have decided that the dps or discipline wasnt there to take on nameds.  However if that were the case they should have said something about it.  I learned long ago in NBG settings, roll on everything you can.  too many times i skipped something hoping to get better and wound up gettting to roll on nothing.

Emerald Halls is too big for a guild to clear in one day.  making it a persistent zone is the only way to go with it.  changing that makes the zone something you can only do if you have a raid force that can go for much longer than the norm. maybe 8 hours or more?

I agree with the previous poster, tell your neighboors, tell your freinds, don't go anywere with them again.

[KBern]

Hanoverian wrote:

One solution would be to change EH to a non persistent zone.  Once we go in, you have to clear it or you are locked out.  That would prevent crap like this from happening.    

So because SOME people in ONE guild on ONE server POSSIBLY were underhanded in how a raid was run, you want to change a game mechanic that was put in to assist MANY people and causal raiders with enjoying a large raid zone?

EH is a big zone, you said they killed names with you and even offered the loots up for random so I dont see some big scheme going on.

You may have been used, may not, but I really do not think you understand what the change to this mechanic would do to many more people than a few on a pick up raid who may have been used to clear trash.

[interstellarmatter]

No reason to change the way raid zone works because you feel that you got the bad end of a stick.  The persistant raid zone was finally a big leap in the way raids worked in EQ2.  Let's not go backward.

As they said above, lesson learned.  Don't raid with them again and let friends know. 

Let us let the servers police themselves as much as possible without Sony's help.

[Hanoverian]

Gwarsh@Befallen wrote:

they may have decided that the dps or discipline wasnt there to take on nameds. 

No, that's wasn't an issue at all.  We went through the trash like a knife through butter.  Ther may have been one death.

But most of your suggestions I think were right on the money.  And for the naysayers about changing to non-persistent, maybe you are right, but I think if you look at my OP, I suggested that this was jus a possible solution.

And we only killed one name, not several.  The drops we got were from trash mobs and one name.

Thanks for all your responses.

[Zarador]

Respectfully, human nature being what it is, there will always be conflicts with some pick up groups and raids.  With that said, I resist the concepts of changing any game mechanics to correct what should not be a problem in the first place.  I was "blind" invited to a group the other day in a dungeon.  Normally, I decline such invites.  Against my better judgment, I accepted.  It was quite easy to wipe through the area solo as a Wizard, but I figured we could do it quickly as a duo (Necromancer/Wizard).  The person did not reply to any messages, no big deal, I'm not that social anyway.  The loot was set to free for all.  We get a master Chest, they loot, they go link dead, game over. I have only me to blame because I accepted the invite and they never changed it to NBG loot options.When I join any pick up raid/group I accept that most likely I'm going to walk away with just the experience of fighting in that zone.  Pessimistic? Perhaps, but then again, after playing so many years, I think I have observed enough of greed to teach me that I might get shafted.  Unfortunately, it seems to be the nature of many pickup groups and pickup raids.

[Zin`Car]

Hanoverian wrote:

One solution would be to change EH to a non persistent zone.  Once we go in, you have to clear it or you are locked out.  That would prevent crap like this from happening.

A fly landed on my sandwich the other day...  WE NEED TO EXECUTE EVERY SINGLE GARBAGE MAN ALIVE FOR THIS ATROCITY!!!  HAD THEY DONE THEIR JOB RIGHT, THAT FLY WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST!!! DIE DIE DIE DIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait, that' sound simply [Llama] stupid doesn't it...  Ya, so does this "proposal".  You got used.  It sucks.  Move on.

[Hanoverian]

Luinne@Kithicor wrote:

Hanoverian wrote:

One solution would be to change EH to a non persistent zone.  Once we go in, you have to clear it or you are locked out.  That would prevent crap like this from happening.

A fly landed on my sandwich the other day...  WE NEED TO EXECUTE EVERY SINGLE GARBAGE MAN ALIVE FOR THIS ATROCITY!!!  HAD THEY DONE THEIR JOB RIGHT, THAT FLY WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST!!! DIE DIE DIE DIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait, that' sound simply [Marsupial] stupid doesn't it...  Ya, so does this "proposal".  You got used.  It sucks.  Move on.

There are more constructive means of criticism.  And it wasn't a "proposal" as I have said.  It was one solution.  You may not like it and its' yoru right to say so, but there's no need to be a jerk about it.  

[Svann]

First thing you should do is confront the raid leader with your complaint.  If that does nothing then if you know anyone else unhappy with the situation then ask them to confront.  If that doesnt work then post a thread on http://eq2flames.com/ with the guild name and raidleader name.  And you could mention what happened next time you hear him calling for help.  But in open chat keep it short and dont look like a whiner. 

[Razlath]

Zarador wrote:

We get a master Chest, they loot, they go link dead, game over. I have only me to blame because I accepted the invite and they never changed it to NBG loot options.

They would have just clicked need when you clicked greed anyway.  NBG is just as bad as FFA for single loot stealing.  If you are afraid of your group members, go with Lotto, at least everyone who rolls gets a chance.

Anyway, just thought I would throw that out there in case you were thinking NBG would have protected you from the same thing happening.

We all form blacklists of players / guilds that suck to interact with (even if they are only mental ones where we don't accept invites from those people any more).  About all you can do is add this guild to your list, tell your guild and friends, and move on.  It sucks, but that is the way it goes sometimes and there really isn't much if anything that SoE can do about it without hurting more people than they help.  Eventually that guild's actions will come back to bite them.  No server is so big that kind of stuff can go on for too long.

[Zarador]

Hanoverian wrote:

Luinne@Kithicor wrote:

Hanoverian wrote:

One solution would be to change EH to a non persistent zone.  Once we go in, you have to clear it or you are locked out.  That would prevent crap like this from happening.

A fly landed on my sandwich the other day...  WE NEED TO EXECUTE EVERY SINGLE GARBAGE MAN ALIVE FOR THIS ATROCITY!!!  HAD THEY DONE THEIR JOB RIGHT, THAT FLY WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST!!! DIE DIE DIE DIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait, that' sound simply [Banana] stupid doesn't it...  Ya, so does this "proposal".  You got used.  It sucks.  Move on.

There are more constructive means of criticism.  And it wasn't a "proposal" as I have said.  It was one solution.  You may not like it and its' yoru right to say so, but there's no need to be a jerk about it.  

I think I said the same thing they said, but in a more polite and explaining manner.  Lets say for instance that things had gone well, so you join up with another raid later today, except they can't go in there, it's locked out.  Might even be locked out because of a game glitch effecting the timers like some zones have experienced lately. I think at that point if someone explained that a change was made to the mechanics of the game because of a bad pick up raid, you may just wind up less supportive of your own suggestion.It's not a solution, in the eyes of many, to change a game because other players may turn out to be inconsiderate.  Again, human nature being what it is, make a better mousetrap and someone will find a way to break it by attempting to trap a moose in it.

[Cheydak]

Hanoverian wrote:

Luinne@Kithicor wrote:

Hanoverian wrote:

One solution would be to change EH to a non persistent zone.  Once we go in, you have to clear it or you are locked out.  That would prevent crap like this from happening.

A fly landed on my sandwich the other day...  WE NEED TO EXECUTE EVERY SINGLE GARBAGE MAN ALIVE FOR THIS ATROCITY!!!  HAD THEY DONE THEIR JOB RIGHT, THAT FLY WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST!!! DIE DIE DIE DIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait, that' sound simply [Polar Bear] stupid doesn't it...  Ya, so does this "proposal".  You got used.  It sucks.  Move on.

There are more constructive means of criticism.  And it wasn't a "proposal" as I have said.  It was one solution.  You may not like it and its' yoru right to say so, but there's no need to be a jerk about it.  

A solution to what?  You do realize there’s two more floors in there, each with a butt ton of trash to clear even after successfully completing the trials, don’t you?  Plus the possibility of random spawned named on each floor which could still kick a level 80 pick up raid’s behind.  Clearing the trash on the first floor to Tender isn't exactly leaving the rest of the zone trash free for the guild concerned.  Did your pick up raid get close enough to Tender to get a visual on him?  If not, then there's a lot of annoying trash surrounding his area that also needs to be cleared. 

Basically you’re suggesting that SOE revamp an entire zone thereby screwing any other t7 guild that would want to raid it because because the raid broke up sooner than you expected.   Did you try to contact the raid leader to find out why the raid ended when it did?  You're making an awfully broad assumption that might not, in fact, be true. 

[Wyle]

As an EQII newbie, but WoW old hat, I have a question which will help me understand how much of a problem what happened is in my view...A goes to a raid with B, both get tagged for that raid with ID #foo, and then leave to come back later. B comes back later and kills boss #1 with other players - they are all now tagged with ID #foo. The next whenever, before the reset, A goes with an entirely different group - they are all now also tagged with ID #foo, is boss #1 dead or present?In WoW, boss #1 would be dead - he was killed under that save ID #foo and it doesn't matter who did it, he's dead until the next reset.If boss #1 is dead, as he would be in WoW, then I can see a lot of reasons for the OP to be angry. But if boss #1 is not dead, then I can see annoyance, but at least 'A' still has a chance at him - were I A I would be annoyed but not outraged.Also, when is the reset? In WoW they happen every Tuesday around 11am PST (when servers come back up from maintenance) - thus in WoW, when tagged for a raid, you're tag lasts until the next Tuesday morning. It is always at that same time. Are they this predictable in EQII?

[interstellarmatter]

Wyleai wrote:

In WoW, boss #1 would be dead - he was killed under that save ID #foo and it doesn't matter who did it, he's dead until the next reset.

The boss would be dead.

In fact, there was an event recently where someone joined a raiding guild.  They cleared up to a certain point and called it a night.  They left the guild and rejoined their old one.  It enabled their guild to go in there and get their mythical updates.  So, the system has some drawbacks.  But it needs to be policed by the players and blacklisting guilds.

I think that EoF is 5 days.  There isn't a set day for clear of reuse timers.

[Wyle]

Yeah, dirty tricks like that happen in WoW too. In fact that's the story of the last raid I took my WoW guild on...

[Zin`Car]

Hanoverian wrote:

There are more constructive means of criticism.  And it wasn't a "proposal" as I have said.  It was one solution.  You may not like it and its' yoru right to say so, but there's no need to be a jerk about it.  

umm...  your "solution" was something that you proposed.  Therefore, it is truly a proposal.  If you can't even understand the difference, it's no wonder that -- 1. you got used to clear trash for a another guild and 2. you fail to realize there is more to EH then that mediocre first floor.  As someone else pointed out, the raid guild obviously had so little faith in the majority of the PUG raid that it was hand holding through the beginning of the zone and it decided it was best to come back with people who actually KNOW the zone later.  Your whine-fest here shows you obviously do NOT and judging by that, it was a wise decision i should think on the raid leader's part.

Feel free to keep posting about how much of a big meanie-poo head i've been to you but all you've done is whined on an open forum about how unfair it was that a group of people who knew what they were doing decided to not drag the rest of you through a zone to get you "uber loot".  /yawn

Here's a clue:  Since the zone is persistant on your toon as well... form up another raid and go get what you feel is rightfully yours.  Go earn what you believe you have missed out on.  If not or you simply can't do that then this is all that is left for you...

[Hanoverian]

Luinne@Kithicor wrote:

Hanoverian wrote:

There are more constructive means of criticism.  And it wasn't a "proposal" as I have said.  It was one solution.  You may not like it and its' yoru right to say so, but there's no need to be a jerk about it.  

umm...  your "solution" was something that you proposed.  Therefore, it is truly a proposal.  If you can't even understand the difference, it's no wonder that -- 1. you got used to clear trash for a another guild and 2. you fail to realize there is more to EH then that mediocre first floor.  As someone else pointed out, the raid guild obviously had so little faith in the majority of the PUG raid that it was hand holding through the beginning of the zone and it decided it was best to come back with people who actually KNOW the zone later.  Your whine-fest here shows you obviously do NOT and judging by that, it was a wise decision i should think on the raid leader's part.

Feel free to keep posting about how much of a big meanie-poo head i've been to you but all you've done is whined on an open forum about how unfair it was that a group of people who knew what they were doing decided to not drag the rest of you through a zone to get you "uber loot".  /yawn

Here's a clue:  Since the zone is persistant on your toon as well... form up another raid and go get what you feel is rightfully yours.  Go earn what you believe you have missed out on.  If not or you simply can't do that then this is all that is left for you...

Luinne, I beg to differ on several of your comments.  A proposal is when one says...I think we should do "X"  I never said that SOE should change the zone, I merely pointed out that changing the zone was one solution. (read: there are other solutions; read: I was asking for suggestions).  If you can't understand that difference, then I'm not surprised you totally missed the point of my post.

"The raid guild had so little faith in the majority of the PUG...."???  If you actually read the thread, you'll see that nothing was so obvious.  We cut through the first floor with ease.  And, if they had so little faith, why did they then ask us if any of us wanted to go with them to FTH?  I declined, naturally.  They knew exactly what they were doing.  That's for sure.

Most of the folks who responded to the OP said things that make me believe that they thought we were treated unfairly.  You, on the other hand, just think I am whining.  Your comments were so venomous that I can only conclude that you feel guilty for having conducted yourself in a similar fashion.   

Finally, I already said that I know I can form up another raid and finish the zone.  My point was that the host guild should have told us they had no intention of going past the first named.  Had we known that we would have rolled on the stuff that dropped on the first level.  Got it?  That's all I was saying.  It was rude of them not to tell us.  Can you honestly say that it was not rude/dishonest/deceitful?

P.S. Lay off the coffee, or Jolt Cola or whatever it is that has you so fired up. 

[ClawHammr]

Exactly one of the many reasons why I always have more fun soloing than with a group or Raid

And as a Necro I can solo very, very well

[Zarador]

ClawHammr wrote:

Exactly one of the many reasons why I always have more fun soloing than with a group or Raid

And as a Necro I can solo very, very well " />

Agreed 100%!!!That aside, it's the cost of a general lack of commitment on the part of the player.  Your expecting to be treated like a full fledged member of a raiding guild in a pickup raid. Not gonna happen.  You want that sort of respect and treatment, you put your time in a raid guild, plain and simple.You can't have your proverbial cake and eat it to.  If your going to depend on outside help to accomplish things, then you have to accept that your at their mercy.  You always have the option to join up with people serious about raiding or to accept that things like this may happen to you if you don't.I would also add that this is why so many guilds are reluctant to setup pick-up raids.  Everyone involved knows far more than the people that do it on a regular basis with people who by trial and error have learned the ropes of the zone.  Their not better, their more seasoned.  Since they play with the same players day in and day out they know what they can expect from the players and the players know what to expect from the guilds raid leader.

[ClawHammr]

Zarador wrote:

ClawHammr wrote:

Exactly one of the many reasons why I always have more fun soloing than with a group or Raid

And as a Necro I can solo very, very well ">

Agreed 100%!!!That aside, it's the cost of a general lack of commitment on the part of the player.  Your expecting to be treated like a full fledged member of a raiding guild in a pickup raid. Not gonna happen.  You want that sort of respect and treatment, you put your time in a raid guild, plain and simple.You can't have your proverbial cake and eat it to.  If your going to depend on outside help to accomplish things, then you have to accept that your at their mercy.  You always have the option to join up with people serious about raiding or to accept that things like this may happen to you if you don't.I would also add that this is why so many guilds are reluctant to setup pick-up raids.  Everyone involved knows far more than the people that do it on a regular basis with people who by trial and error have learned the ropes of the zone.  Their not better, their more seasoned.  Since they play with the same players day in and day out they know what they can expect from the players and the players know what to expect from the guilds raid leader.

Nothing better than knowing every single item in every chest that drops - including Metal - is mine to keep

[Zarador]

ClawHammr wrote:

Zarador wrote:

ClawHammr wrote:

Exactly one of the many reasons why I always have more fun soloing than with a group or Raid

And as a Necro I can solo very, very well ">

Agreed 100%!!!That aside, it's the cost of a general lack of commitment on the part of the player.  Your expecting to be treated like a full fledged member of a raiding guild in a pickup raid. Not gonna happen.  You want that sort of respect and treatment, you put your time in a raid guild, plain and simple.You can't have your proverbial cake and eat it to.  If your going to depend on outside help to accomplish things, then you have to accept that your at their mercy.  You always have the option to join up with people serious about raiding or to accept that things like this may happen to you if you don't.I would also add that this is why so many guilds are reluctant to setup pick-up raids.  Everyone involved knows far more than the people that do it on a regular basis with people who by trial and error have learned the ropes of the zone.  Their not better, their more seasoned.  Since they play with the same players day in and day out they know what they can expect from the players and the players know what to expect from the guilds raid leader.

Nothing better than knowing every single item in every chest that drops - including Metal - is mine to keep " />

I think we can finally agree on something.   I always enjoyed soloing and duoing even if the drops don't compare to a raid simply because of the lack of drama. My girlfriend and I specifically made characters that compliment each other to eliminate the need for other players (except a small group of friends/family).

[WeatherMan]

Zarador wrote:

That aside, it's the cost of a general lack of commitment on the part of the player.  Your expecting to be treated like a full fledged member of a raiding guild in a pickup raid. Not gonna happen.  You want that sort of respect and treatment, you put your time in a raid guild, plain and simple.

Actually, the way I was interpreting his post, it was not to 'be treated like a full fledged member' that he was expecting.  He was expecting to not 'be treated like the brown mass that just plunked into the toilet bowl before you reach for the Charmin'.Because it sounds like that is exactly what they considered him to be.  And it is jackwipes like them that he mentioned that we need in the game like we need a two-foot iron rivet shoved into our lung cavity.  Or is someone suggesting its okay to invite someone along with the preconceived intent to scr*w them like a two-bit streetwalker and then kick them out into the street?  That's what it sounds like, and its what they did.

[Zarador]

WeatherMan wrote:

Zarador wrote:

That aside, it's the cost of a general lack of commitment on the part of the player.  Your expecting to be treated like a full fledged member of a raiding guild in a pickup raid. Not gonna happen.  You want that sort of respect and treatment, you put your time in a raid guild, plain and simple.

Actually, the way I was interpreting his post, it was not to 'be treated like a full fledged member' that he was expecting.  He was expecting to not 'be treated like the brown mass that just plunked into the toilet bowl before you reach for the Charmin'.Because it sounds like that is exactly what they considered him to be.  And it is jackwipes like them that he mentioned that we need in the game like we need a two-foot iron rivet shoved into our lung cavity.  Or is someone suggesting its okay to invite someone along with the preconceived intent to scr*w them like a two-bit streetwalker and then kick them out into the street?  That's what it sounds like, and its what they did.

Perhaps if there was more to the post, we would know more about what happened.  It's mentioned that they concluded that they most likely were there just to clear the trash, but no mention that the Guild returned later (unless I missed that) to continue the raid.I also read that all but the Trade Skill Item were put up for /Ran, yet the OP wanted better and did not wish to waste the roll, a chance they took. The raid, according to the post ended at the point, by a decision of the hosting guild.  Not sure, but is there a reason that the others in the pickup raid (24 of them) were unable to continue without the seven?

[Sunlei]

 You felt used,you think, you assume. What stopped you from asking the raid leader if you can join the next raid tomorrow?

[Hanoverian]

Sunlei wrote:

 You felt used,you think, you assume. What stopped you from asking the raid leader if you can join the next raid tomorrow?

I felt used, period.  I don't think and I don't assume I felt used.

And, if I had been foolish enough to ask them if I could raid with them again and they screwed me a second time, I have no doubt that the response would have been "What did you expect?"

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.   

[Talz]

Hanoverian wrote:

Sunlei wrote:

 You felt used,you think, you assume. What stopped you from asking the raid leader if you can join the next raid tomorrow?

I felt used, period.  I don't think and I don't assume I felt used.

And, if I had been foolish enough to ask them if I could raid with them again and they screwed me a second time, I have no doubt that the response would have been "What did you expect?"

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.   

Honestly dude, going in just expect the absolute worst possible outcome of joining an open raid and any ending that isn't that will be alright.  It probably isn't what you want to hear and I'm not saying it's right but it is what it is.  Eighty years from now open raids will be the same.

[Chillax]

I'd like to offer my 2cp to this discussion because I was in this same pickup raid.

When I saw the call go out about this raid, I immediately jumped at the opportunity because a) I had never been to EH before and b) I thought it would be cool to have a chance at better loot/xp.  Notice I said chance at better loot/xp, not expect better loot/xp.  I don't think everyone should know everything about every zone/instance/quest.  There is nothing wrong with going to a new area of the game and learn it as you go.

Luinne, there were 24 people in the pick up raid so do you really expect all 24 (most of which were not in the raid guild) to know what to do, know the zone inside and out and know the gameplan if nothing of the sort was communicated for all to hear (on vent) or see (in-game chat window)?  Don't answer that, because I'm sure your answer is yes.

Regarding the drops, I too saw the green seed drop and didn't bother asking for it since I had no idea what it was for so it didn't interest me.  The cloak drops and again, I didn't need it since my deity quest cloak was better suited for my class, again I had no interest.  When the Mistress of the Veil loot dropped, I noticed that neither item was for my class so I again didn't care and figured there would be more opportunities for my class.  If not, then no big deal.  I wasn't expecting anything in this raid and never do in raids since the odds are not always in my favor.  Sure it would be nice but not the end of the world if it got shut out...its happened plenty of times before.

We were all standing around in the water near the Mistress of the Veil for a few seconds and then people were posting things like 'thanks for the group' and 'anyone want to go to FTH' and then people were calling home.  Being new to the zone, I thought that was all there was to it but I did see the OP say many times there was one more name on track so I couldn't understand why this raid was disbanding.  Now that I've had time to process what happened and read up on the zone, I also feel used.

Luinne, it sounds like you are either a raider by nature/choice and comfortable pulling stunts on unsuspecting invitees like this OR you were also there that night, maybe even the raid leader or MT and saw no problem using people without informing them.  Either way, to feel we shouldn't have accepted the invitation or should just accept the hand that was dealt is mean-spirited.

Now that I know this sort of thing can happen, I will be more cautious joining raids by asking relevant questions upfront.

[Svann]

Zarador wrote:

ClawHammr wrote:

Exactly one of the many reasons why I always have more fun soloing than with a group or Raid

And as a Necro I can solo very, very well ">

Agreed 100%!!!That aside, it's the cost of a general lack of commitment on the part of the player.  Your expecting to be treated like a full fledged member of a raiding guild in a pickup raid. Not gonna happen. 

He wasnt expecting to be treated like a "full-fledged member of a raiding guild" but as a full fledged member of a raid.  When a raiding guild needs help they by rights should extend full respect to those people that come to help.  I can only see that people would be treated like lesser members in the case where they were charity invites.  As example my old guild would put out 1 or 2 invites to trivialized raids that would help someone get their epic (in another game).  They werent there to help us, they were there for us to help them.  So it was made clear that they could get their epic part and were allowed to roll on any item that no guildie wanted.  But in any case where we were short guildies and NEEDED to invite outside help, they were extended full rights as any other member.  If you want to have two tiers of raidmember, or non-standard loot rules, or only allowing non-guildies along to clear trash, then the right way to handle it is to make it clear with an announcement at the start of the raid, or even better would be to make it clear as you are sending out requests for help.