no-trade groundspawn tome pages

pebyr · 12-11-2007, 04:38 AM

this has probably been covered before, but oh well. Group of us in feerott were collecting tome pages, trying to complete the tome collections. Well we found a big problem with the way its done. If the page is in a bush, or a body drop, or chest drop, we know before we loot, whether we need. But if its ground spawn, we have no way to know. i dont want to count how many times i picked up a no-trade page, that i didn't need and somebody else did, and vice versa.It would be really spiffy, if there was any way at all to know before you loot the no-trade ground spawn whether it was one you needed or not.

Grimdeath · 12-11-2007, 09:18 AM

Next you'll be asking if the Buryai seeker pet can actually prompt us first if it is the collection item we want, and if not, to then generate another one... Or only spit out collection items that you don't have.My opinion is leave this the way it is. It is part of the randomness and really, it only takes 1 second to delete it.In the case of NO-TRADE drops - I don't see SOE changing this whatsoever. They are what make the collections harder to obtain. The Burynai Seeker pet goes a long way to make completing collections a lot easier.Hey, while we're at it, maybe we can petition SOE to remove the LORE and NO-TRADE tags on the Snuffing the Fireknight pages... The reason? I haven't found them all yet, even after killing hundreds of mobs in their respective EoF zones. Seriously, I agree that it is a bit annoying (especially with this [I cannot control my vocabulary] collection) however I'm glad SOE won't give me everything on a silver platter.SOE want you to still work at things. This point you've brought up brings us back to one of them.Edit: And for the record, I still have a few collections in the Feerrott that I haven't completed either. I think they are either shinies or mob-drops too as they are not on the broker. But that's fine with me - I'll find them eventually.

ke'la · 12-11-2007, 10:49 AM

Grimdeath wrote:

Next you'll be asking if the Buryai seeker pet can actually prompt us first if it is the collection item we want, and if not, to then generate another one... Or only spit out collection items that you don't have.My opinion is leave this the way it is. It is part of the randomness and really, it only takes 1 second to delete it.In the case of NO-TRADE drops - I don't see SOE changing this whatsoever. They are what make the collections harder to obtain. The Burynai Seeker pet goes a long way to make completing collections a lot easier.Hey, while we're at it, maybe we can petition SOE to remove the LORE and NO-TRADE tags on the Snuffing the Fireknight pages... The reason? I haven't found them all yet, even after killing hundreds of mobs in their respective EoF zones. Seriously, I agree that it is a bit annoying (especially with this [I cannot control my vocabulary] collection) however I'm glad SOE won't give me everything on a silver platter.SOE want you to still work at things. This point you've brought up brings us back to one of them.Edit: And for the record, I still have a few collections in the Feerrott that I haven't completed either. I think they are either shinies or mob-drops too as they are not on the broker. But that's fine with me - I'll find them eventually.

Maybe you should accually READ the post be for you Troll.

The OP is not asking the Devs to Remove the No Trade tag, the OP is asking that there be some way of knowing that that little ! sitting thier on the ground is a No Trade iteam instead of a Tradeable one(like say poping up a loot window that says shows the iteam and that it is No Trade) so that way the OP can leave it in the ground for someone else to pick up. This does not dumb down the game in any way or make any collection easier to get, it just makes it so that the OP can be nice to other people by giving them a chance at it.

IMO I think all those No Trade Pages should be either moved to Clicky Rocks or placed on MoBs as RARE(don't change the drop rate at all) body drops(this goes for No Trade Pages that drop in chests too) as having pages bechest drops makes it impossable for people to finnish the quest if they are not lucky enough to get those pages while within the lvl range.

pebyr · 12-11-2007, 01:28 PM

rofl. me want things easy? haha. After 4 years and 3 toons with 20+ hq's, and completing the claymore questline in its entirety 5 times, before the introduction of EoF, i'm not that concerned with easy. What does annoy me, are people who don't read posts, and then spout that, "omg, you want everything easy crap". Since a lot of those really only drop off mobs, I already know we're gonna have to kill ALOT of mobs in feerott and zek to complete some of these. I just hate the idea of picking up a no-trade item that i don't need and somebody else in the party does, just because there is no way in the game to know what i'm getting before its irretrievably in my inventory.But ke'la actually read my post, and got the idea, i'll leave it at this.. It was the ridiculousness of the first response, that got to me. Remember, reading is fun .. da .. mental.

Valdaglerion · 12-11-2007, 06:44 PM

I agree it would be nice if a loot window came up when collecting a No-Trade tome that gave you the option to either loot the item or leave it as a ground spawn for someone else to find.Further, I tend to agree that the easier solution for the devs is to move the no-trade stuff out of the ground spawn cycle and make them clickies or body drops. As for chest drops - I wish they would do away with them although I must admit I have actually seen an increase in the number of chests dropping quest starters from grey mobs now.

Soefje · 12-12-2007, 12:48 AM

Valdaglerion wrote:

I agree it would be nice if a loot window came up when collecting a No-Trade tome that gave you the option to either loot the item or leave it as a ground spawn for someone else to find.Further, I tend to agree that the easier solution for the devs is to move the no-trade stuff out of the ground spawn cycle and make them clickies or body drops. As for chest drops - I wish they would do away with them although I must admit I have actually seen an increase in the number of chests dropping quest starters from grey mobs now.

Or better yet, make the ones in the fixed locations No-Trade and make the body drops or ! all tradeable.

Drexler · 12-12-2007, 02:10 AM

Im sorry but this is absolutly absurd. Lets stick a neon sign over every ground spawn to tell us what it is, if they do it for pages they would have to do it for the shinys too and that would suck.

This will (thankfully) stay as it is.

pebyr · 12-12-2007, 04:03 AM

only issue with what you say, is that most if not all shinies are tradeable(not familiar with the rok ones), and so aren't the same thing at all. Comparing apples to oranges is counter productive. Again, I dont care how it happens. It just seems bad that when you gather up a ground spawn tome page, you can get no-trade items. All collectables and other things like that, are tradeable. I would love it, if they would just stop putting the no-trade stuff on the ground. There's nothing worse, than collecting something you can't use and another person in the party can. I really can't think of anything equivalent in the game. I dont know of any other no-trade collectable items that are ground spawn.Not asking for neon signs or anything like that. I dont really understand why people are interpreting this as trying to make it easier. yeesh. Explain how it makes it easier if you take the no-trade and make them only body drops. To my mind that makes it a great deal harder. Explain how the no doubt game breaking advantage, it gives me, to see the same no-trade window, you get with other no-trade loot. OMG, those people should be nerfed. Next thing you know we'll be asking them to make it so that class specific armor only drops for people in the party. Oh wait, they already did that.The only possible purpose to this, would be so that you could not pick it up so that someone else could. If you pick up a no-trade item you can't use, you usually only vendor it for a few copper or destroy it. Not sure how that is absurd, but i await the explanation.note: Why do i get the feeling that the only folks that are vehemently against this, are simply trolling and not really taking the time to understand what this about.

Meryddian · 12-12-2007, 04:54 PM

Grimdeath wrote:
IMO I think all those No Trade Pages should be either moved to Clicky Rocks or placed on MoBs as RARE(don't change the drop rate at all) body drops(this goes for No Trade Pages that drop in chests too) as having pages be chest drops makes it impossable for people to finnish the quest if they are not lucky enough to get those pages while within the lvl range.

The point of the "no-drop" pages, whether ground spawns or body drops, is so that you will go and hunt and work for those items instead of simply buying them off the broker, of course. And in the case of some items, to keep a given item more rare (ie. Cloak of Flames). But when the no drop pages are so @#$%& rare that people spend days hunting mobs - even worse, green or grey mobs - to find those elusive pages and still don't have it, then something is wrong with the system. There are plenty of folks out there who, when exping their way around a zone, are courteous about picking up shinies and do them in turns. So it's a bummer knowing you only need one more piece to complete a quest and it's a no-trade random ground shiny, and other people who don't need it keep plucking it up.(Ugh, don't even make me think about how much time - hours and levels over several months - I've spent in New Tunaria and I still don't page 7. Ridiculous. And I'm not the only one, not by a long shot.)It's not that people want it easier, it's that people want it to be realistically achievable. It's incredibly frustrating to be stuck on a quest for many levels or, in real time, months, because you can't find the necessary item to move on! The solution seems a bit more obvious than having the ?/!/page ask you if you want to loot it. These are quest items, same as other quest updates that are received. Why can't these quest items get the same kind of character flag that body-drop quest updates get, that you only can SEE the quest item IF YOU NEED IT - so instead of picking up a ? and finding it's something you already have, either you cannot see said shiny at all, or you get a message, "You already have that quest item, so you may not harvest it".

KindredHeart · 12-12-2007, 06:28 PM

I really like the way the pages I've seen so far in RoK are working. If you've added it to your collection, when you try to pick it up again you get a message saying that you already have it and the page stays on the ground for someone else to pick up.

I think the fixed ground spawn pages are the way to go because players who want to find them for themselves can - and players who want to use a spoiler can. If SOE implemented all pages like I mentioned above then players couldn't simply walk over to the broker, pay some money, and then be done with the quest - and I feel that would be a welcome change. Players would have to go to the various places, brave the mobs, and actually pick up the pages.

One other note...I think it's always been a bad idea to place pages on mobs for multiple reasons. It doesn't make sense to me that the lore contained in many of the books shouldn't be available to anyone brave enough to try to sneak around a zone and pick them up...no matter what their level. And it doesn't seem like a good idea to create mob farm camps where players spend day after frustrating day killing hundreds - thousands of the same creature over and over again. It creates a bad feeling about the game, creates a bottleneck, and causes other players who would like to adventure in that same area to suffer.

Leucippus · 12-12-2007, 06:40 PM

The op might be in luck!Check for the recent developer posts.Shinies will be getting standard loot treatment soon!If the book pages are treated as shinies, then soon there should be a loot dialog when lotto loot is set.-Leucippus

Valdaglerion · 12-12-2007, 07:23 PM

KindredHeart wrote:

I really like the way the pages I've seen so far in RoK are working. If you've added it to your collection, when you try to pick it up again you get a message saying that you already have it and the page stays on the ground for someone else to pick up.
Not all the spawns are like that. Typical book tome collection pages are still somewhat random and you can collect multiple of them all around Rok zones.
I think the fixed ground spawn pages are the way to go because players who want to find them for themselves can - and players who want to use a spoiler can. If SOE implemented all pages like I mentioned above then players couldn't simply walk over to the broker, pay some money, and then be done with the quest - and I feel that would be a welcome change. Players would have to go to the various places, brave the mobs, and actually pick up the pages.
Agreed that for tomes this is a good way to go. The only thing I would bring up is that the tome collections, from my experience provide the highest level of XP for a quest/collection within appropriate range. If they are put on easy mode obviously that will have to change significantly. Pro and con of it I suppose. The body drops and having to kill mobs is what makes them valuable although I agree the drop rates need to be looked at.
One other note...I think it's always been a bad idea to place pages on mobs for multiple reasons. It doesn't make sense to me that the lore contained in many of the books shouldn't be available to anyone brave enough to try to sneak around a zone and pick them up...no matter what their level. And it doesn't seem like a good idea to create mob farm camps where players spend day after frustrating day killing hundreds - thousands of the same creature over and over again. It creates a bad feeling about the game, creates a bottleneck, and causes other players who would like to adventure in that same area to suffer.

12-11-2007, 10:49 AM	#3
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	Grimdeath wrote: Next you'll be asking if the Buryai seeker pet can actually prompt us first if it is the collection item we want, and if not, to then generate another one... Or only spit out collection items that you don't have.My opinion is leave this the way it is. It is part of the randomness and really, it only takes 1 second to delete it.In the case of NO-TRADE drops - I don't see SOE changing this whatsoever. They are what make the collections harder to obtain. The Burynai Seeker pet goes a long way to make completing collections a lot easier.Hey, while we're at it, maybe we can petition SOE to remove the LORE and NO-TRADE tags on the Snuffing the Fireknight pages... The reason? I haven't found them all yet, even after killing hundreds of mobs in their respective EoF zones. Seriously, I agree that it is a bit annoying (especially with this [I cannot control my vocabulary] collection) however I'm glad SOE won't give me everything on a silver platter.SOE want you to still work at things. This point you've brought up brings us back to one of them.Edit: And for the record, I still have a few collections in the Feerrott that I haven't completed either. I think they are either shinies or mob-drops too as they are not on the broker. But that's fine with me - I'll find them eventually. Maybe you should accually READ the post be for you Troll. The OP is not asking the Devs to Remove the No Trade tag, the OP is asking that there be some way of knowing that that little ! sitting thier on the ground is a No Trade iteam instead of a Tradeable one(like say poping up a loot window that says shows the iteam and that it is No Trade) so that way the OP can leave it in the ground for someone else to pick up. This does not dumb down the game in any way or make any collection easier to get, it just makes it so that the OP can be nice to other people by giving them a chance at it. IMO I think all those No Trade Pages should be either moved to Clicky Rocks or placed on MoBs as RARE(don't change the drop rate at all) body drops(this goes for No Trade Pages that drop in chests too) as having pages bechest drops makes it impossable for people to finnish the quest if they are not lucky enough to get those pages while within the lvl range. __________________

12-12-2007, 12:48 AM	#6
Soefje Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 302	Valdaglerion wrote: I agree it would be nice if a loot window came up when collecting a No-Trade tome that gave you the option to either loot the item or leave it as a ground spawn for someone else to find.Further, I tend to agree that the easier solution for the devs is to move the no-trade stuff out of the ground spawn cycle and make them clickies or body drops. As for chest drops - I wish they would do away with them although I must admit I have actually seen an increase in the number of chests dropping quest starters from grey mobs now. Or better yet, make the ones in the fixed locations No-Trade and make the body drops or ! all tradeable.

12-12-2007, 02:10 AM	#7
Drexler Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	Im sorry but this is absolutly absurd. Lets stick a neon sign over every ground spawn to tell us what it is, if they do it for pages they would have to do it for the shinys too and that would suck. This will (thankfully) stay as it is. __________________

12-12-2007, 04:54 PM	#9
Meryddian Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: King's Guild, Guk Posts: 213	Grimdeath wrote: IMO I think all those No Trade Pages should be either moved to Clicky Rocks or placed on MoBs as RARE(don't change the drop rate at all) body drops(this goes for No Trade Pages that drop in chests too) as having pages be chest drops makes it impossable for people to finnish the quest if they are not lucky enough to get those pages while within the lvl range. The point of the "no-drop" pages, whether ground spawns or body drops, is so that you will go and hunt and work for those items instead of simply buying them off the broker, of course. And in the case of some items, to keep a given item more rare (ie. Cloak of Flames). But when the no drop pages are so @#$%& rare that people spend days hunting mobs - even worse, green or grey mobs - to find those elusive pages and still don't have it, then something is wrong with the system. There are plenty of folks out there who, when exping their way around a zone, are courteous about picking up shinies and do them in turns. So it's a bummer knowing you only need one more piece to complete a quest and it's a no-trade random ground shiny, and other people who don't need it keep plucking it up.(Ugh, don't even make me think about how much time - hours and levels over several months - I've spent in New Tunaria and I still don't page 7. Ridiculous. And I'm not the only one, not by a long shot.)It's not that people want it easier, it's that people want it to be realistically achievable. It's incredibly frustrating to be stuck on a quest for many levels or, in real time, months, because you can't find the necessary item to move on! The solution seems a bit more obvious than having the ?/!/page ask you if you want to loot it. These are quest items, same as other quest updates that are received. Why can't these quest items get the same kind of character flag that body-drop quest updates get, that you only can SEE the quest item IF YOU NEED IT - so instead of picking up a ? and finding it's something you already have, either you cannot see said shiny at all, or you get a message, "You already have that quest item, so you may not harvest it". __________________ Melime Darkstryder 85 SK/ Xiantia DarkFlyght 80 inq/ Sinikka Eversings 80 troub/ GUK

12-12-2007, 06:28 PM	#10
KindredHeart Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 339	I really like the way the pages I've seen so far in RoK are working. If you've added it to your collection, when you try to pick it up again you get a message saying that you already have it and the page stays on the ground for someone else to pick up. I think the fixed ground spawn pages are the way to go because players who want to find them for themselves can - and players who want to use a spoiler can. If SOE implemented all pages like I mentioned above then players couldn't simply walk over to the broker, pay some money, and then be done with the quest - and I feel that would be a welcome change. Players would have to go to the various places, brave the mobs, and actually pick up the pages. One other note...I think it's always been a bad idea to place pages on mobs for multiple reasons. It doesn't make sense to me that the lore contained in many of the books shouldn't be available to anyone brave enough to try to sneak around a zone and pick them up...no matter what their level. And it doesn't seem like a good idea to create mob farm camps where players spend day after frustrating day killing hundreds - thousands of the same creature over and over again. It creates a bad feeling about the game, creates a bottleneck, and causes other players who would like to adventure in that same area to suffer. __________________ Vallar (90 Mystic) Guild Leader - Devil's Rejects (Guk Server) http://gukrejects.guildportal.com

12-11-2007, 04:38 AM	#1
pebyr Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 151	this has probably been covered before, but oh well. Group of us in feerott were collecting tome pages, trying to complete the tome collections. Well we found a big problem with the way its done. If the page is in a bush, or a body drop, or chest drop, we know before we loot, whether we need. But if its ground spawn, we have no way to know. i dont want to count how many times i picked up a no-trade page, that i didn't need and somebody else did, and vice versa.It would be really spiffy, if there was any way at all to know before you loot the no-trade ground spawn whether it was one you needed or not.

12-11-2007, 09:18 AM	#2
Grimdeath Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 138	Next you'll be asking if the Buryai seeker pet can actually prompt us first if it is the collection item we want, and if not, to then generate another one... Or only spit out collection items that you don't have.My opinion is leave this the way it is. It is part of the randomness and really, it only takes 1 second to delete it.In the case of NO-TRADE drops - I don't see SOE changing this whatsoever. They are what make the collections harder to obtain. The Burynai Seeker pet goes a long way to make completing collections a lot easier.Hey, while we're at it, maybe we can petition SOE to remove the LORE and NO-TRADE tags on the Snuffing the Fireknight pages... The reason? I haven't found them all yet, even after killing hundreds of mobs in their respective EoF zones. Seriously, I agree that it is a bit annoying (especially with this [I cannot control my vocabulary] collection) however I'm glad SOE won't give me everything on a silver platter.SOE want you to still work at things. This point you've brought up brings us back to one of them.Edit: And for the record, I still have a few collections in the Feerrott that I haven't completed either. I think they are either shinies or mob-drops too as they are not on the broker. But that's fine with me - I'll find them eventually.

12-11-2007, 01:28 PM	#4
pebyr Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 151	rofl. me want things easy? haha. After 4 years and 3 toons with 20+ hq's, and completing the claymore questline in its entirety 5 times, before the introduction of EoF, i'm not that concerned with easy. What does annoy me, are people who don't read posts, and then spout that, "omg, you want everything easy crap". Since a lot of those really only drop off mobs, I already know we're gonna have to kill ALOT of mobs in feerott and zek to complete some of these. I just hate the idea of picking up a no-trade item that i don't need and somebody else in the party does, just because there is no way in the game to know what i'm getting before its irretrievably in my inventory.But ke'la actually read my post, and got the idea, i'll leave it at this.. It was the ridiculousness of the first response, that got to me. Remember, reading is fun .. da .. mental.

12-11-2007, 06:44 PM	#5
Valdaglerion Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,870	I agree it would be nice if a loot window came up when collecting a No-Trade tome that gave you the option to either loot the item or leave it as a ground spawn for someone else to find.Further, I tend to agree that the easier solution for the devs is to move the no-trade stuff out of the ground spawn cycle and make them clickies or body drops. As for chest drops - I wish they would do away with them although I must admit I have actually seen an increase in the number of chests dropping quest starters from grey mobs now.

12-12-2007, 04:03 AM	#8
pebyr Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 151	only issue with what you say, is that most if not all shinies are tradeable(not familiar with the rok ones), and so aren't the same thing at all. Comparing apples to oranges is counter productive. Again, I dont care how it happens. It just seems bad that when you gather up a ground spawn tome page, you can get no-trade items. All collectables and other things like that, are tradeable. I would love it, if they would just stop putting the no-trade stuff on the ground. There's nothing worse, than collecting something you can't use and another person in the party can. I really can't think of anything equivalent in the game. I dont know of any other no-trade collectable items that are ground spawn.Not asking for neon signs or anything like that. I dont really understand why people are interpreting this as trying to make it easier. yeesh. Explain how it makes it easier if you take the no-trade and make them only body drops. To my mind that makes it a great deal harder. Explain how the no doubt game breaking advantage, it gives me, to see the same no-trade window, you get with other no-trade loot. OMG, those people should be nerfed. Next thing you know we'll be asking them to make it so that class specific armor only drops for people in the party. Oh wait, they already did that.The only possible purpose to this, would be so that you could not pick it up so that someone else could. If you pick up a no-trade item you can't use, you usually only vendor it for a few copper or destroy it. Not sure how that is absurd, but i await the explanation.note: Why do i get the feeling that the only folks that are vehemently against this, are simply trolling and not really taking the time to understand what this about.

12-12-2007, 06:40 PM	#11
Leucippus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 400	The op might be in luck!Check for the recent developer posts.Shinies will be getting standard loot treatment soon!If the book pages are treated as shinies, then soon there should be a loot dialog when lotto loot is set.-Leucippus __________________

12-12-2007, 07:23 PM	#12
Valdaglerion Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,870	KindredHeart wrote: I really like the way the pages I've seen so far in RoK are working. If you've added it to your collection, when you try to pick it up again you get a message saying that you already have it and the page stays on the ground for someone else to pick up. Not all the spawns are like that. Typical book tome collection pages are still somewhat random and you can collect multiple of them all around Rok zones. I think the fixed ground spawn pages are the way to go because players who want to find them for themselves can - and players who want to use a spoiler can. If SOE implemented all pages like I mentioned above then players couldn't simply walk over to the broker, pay some money, and then be done with the quest - and I feel that would be a welcome change. Players would have to go to the various places, brave the mobs, and actually pick up the pages. Agreed that for tomes this is a good way to go. The only thing I would bring up is that the tome collections, from my experience provide the highest level of XP for a quest/collection within appropriate range. If they are put on easy mode obviously that will have to change significantly. Pro and con of it I suppose. The body drops and having to kill mobs is what makes them valuable although I agree the drop rates need to be looked at. One other note...I think it's always been a bad idea to place pages on mobs for multiple reasons. It doesn't make sense to me that the lore contained in many of the books shouldn't be available to anyone brave enough to try to sneak around a zone and pick them up...no matter what their level. And it doesn't seem like a good idea to create mob farm camps where players spend day after frustrating day killing hundreds - thousands of the same creature over and over again. It creates a bad feeling about the game, creates a bottleneck, and causes other players who would like to adventure in that same area to suffer.