Bubbles & steam in moonstone pool in update 37? Domino??

[beladi]

Domino, I love what you've done with the additional carpentry items in LU 36 and the upcoming ones in LU 37.  However, I'd like to voice a concern with one change I noticed. I saw on EQtraders where bubbles and steam will be added into the moonstone pool graphics.   I would like to say that I'm not for this unless it can be made an option that you can choose to turn on or off, like the fire can be adjusted in the fireplace. Why would I not want bubbles and steam? Because I've used these pools in fountains, such as the Zen fountain or waterfalls, and I think the addition of the bubbles and steam will break the tranquility of what I have created. Now, if you can make it something that can be turned on or off, I would be all for it.  Link to the new pool with bubbles and steam on EQ2traders

[beladi]

an example of my zen fountain, using moonstone pools and fir furniture.

See how still the water is? 

[Bithnar]

WOW! Those look great!  Very good job on putting that together.

[beladi]

Thanks.     And I'd like them to stay like that

[Rijacki]

beladi wrote:

Thanks.     And I'd like them to stay like that

If you read the article and not just look at the picture, it is a WHOLE NEW ITEM called a sunken Moonstone Pool (with a current large one for a comparison).  The CURRENT one isn't changing, a new one is being added. GU37 Images on EQ2 Traders - the pools (and text explanation) are in the lower right corner, you will need to scroll down.

[Domino]

Actually there's two things going on. A sunken version of the pool is being added, AND, all the pools (both old and new) are getting the bubbles and steam effect.  This is to distinguish them from the quested versions of these items which are almost identical and result in a very low level of demand for the carpenter versions.  Hopefully, the change will make them a bit more desirable and unique from the quested versions. The original poster may find the bubbles look fine, but if not, the quested versions are still available for the 'flat' look.

[beladi]

DominoDev wrote:

Actually there's two things going on. A sunken version of the pool is being added, AND, all the pools (both old and new) are getting the bubbles and steam effect.  This is to distinguish them from the quested versions of these items which are almost identical and result in a very low level of demand for the carpenter versions.  Hopefully, the change will make them a bit more desirable and unique from the quested versions. The original poster may find the bubbles look fine, but if not, the quested versions are still available for the 'flat' look.

Domino, Thank you so much for taking time to respond. I believe that there is only ONE quested version of the moonstone pool.  That would be the Aviak Bath.  I have posted a picture of the Aviak bath that I quested.  As you can see the Aviak bath is HUGE.  Also included in the picture are the carpenter made Moonstone pool and Large Moonstone pool.    For my zen fountain and other projects, the Aviak bath is not a good substitute by virtue of the fact that it is  so much larger. Example of Aviak bath size, compared to Large Moonstone pool and Moonstone pool:

Now, that being said, the Good folks in Qeynos have some other options.  The Frogolock pool of Tranquility and the versions on the city merchant.  However, we Evil races do not have this luxury.  The moonstone pools are all we have that is of a reasonable size.    The zen fountain in Ava's place would not work using an Aviak bath, because the Aviak bath would take up a good half of her bedroom where it is.   I would sincerely beg that you reconsider, perhaps using one of these options: 1)  Either make the new moonstone pools have a drop down menu, like the fireplaces so that the user can choose how the water appears.   Either with or without bubbles. or 2) make the new pools a completely different version.  'Bubbly Moonstone Pool'  'Bubbly Large Moonstone Pool', 'Bubbly Sunken Moonstone pool.'   This would give more versions and more recipes!   Keep the regular ones in place, but just add new versions of it.  

[Rijacki]

There are two quested ones, the other is the half pool model. I think it, too, is oversized like the aviak pool.

[Jenarie]

Since it has been a goal to add recipes to carpenters anyway, adding a bubbly duplicate seems like a better idea then changing what is currently in game. 

Personaly I don't really see any apeal to a bubble pool although I'm sure there are a lot of people who will love it.

[Andira]

DominoDev wrote:

This is to distinguish them from the quested versions of these items which are almost identical and result in a very low level of demand for the carpenter versions.  Hopefully, the change will make them a bit more desirable and unique from the quested versions.

I am also very happy about all the new furniture and other changes for tradeskills, but share the OP's concern about the pools. And I have to disagree with Domino on the demand issue . At least on Mistmoore. Actually, when I started my furniture store of t6 and t7 rare items, I kept a log of which items sold how much and the moonstone pools were one of my best sellers and still are, beside the ironwood king bed, counters and the ironwood table and floor lamps (the cedar chairs are also popular, now that I have expanded into t5). The quested versions don't really compare, as for decoration purposes both the crafted and the bigger quested versions have their uses, often combined to make water features. Plus you can get a whole lot more of the crafted pools than the quested ones. Edit: I just dug up my notes: Out of the 330 items I sold in the first 2 months of my business, 32 were large moonstone pools and moonstone pools. That is more than any other single item and even at a price 10-15g higher than the rest of my furniture, because moonstone happened to be rather expensive on the broker back then.

[Galldora]

I like the bubbles and steam!  Actually, I tried to make my pool have a steam effect, using some of the steaming Frostfell turkeys -- I had read on the housing forum that this would work, but I couldn't make it work.  I'm looking forward to a steaming tub, and I really like that sunken tub, too. I can see how it might be nice to be able to toggle the effect on and off, though, like the fireplaces. 

[Deson]

Definitely side with the new recipe option. The current art made people use it a certain way and the old art isn't being removed. Added to that, the collection reward items don't have the same status reduction and more than one can be acquired so while market impact may be a factor, crafted does have real advantages to compete.

[CrypticFirefly]

Also agree . . . either have a different version "bubbly pool" in addition to the regular one, or have a drop down like the fireplace for bubbles/no bubbles.

[beladi]

Andira wrote:

DominoDev wrote:

This is to distinguish them from the quested versions of these items which are almost identical and result in a very low level of demand for the carpenter versions.  Hopefully, the change will make them a bit more desirable and unique from the quested versions.

I am also very happy about all the new furniture and other changes for tradeskills, but share the OP's concern about the pools. And I have to disagree with Domino on the demand issue . At least on Mistmoore. Actually, when I started my furniture store of t6 and t7 rare items, I kept a log of which items sold how much and the moonstone pools were one of my best sellers and still are, beside the ironwood king bed, counters and the ironwood table and floor lamps (the cedar chairs are also popular, now that I have expanded into t5). The quested versions don't really compare, as for decoration purposes both the crafted and the bigger quested versions have their uses, often combined to make water features. Plus you can get a whole lot more of the crafted pools than the quested ones. Edit: I just dug up my notes: Out of the 330 items I sold in the first 2 months of my business, 32 were large moonstone pools and moonstone pools. That is more than any other single item and even at a price 10-15g higher than the rest of my furniture, because moonstone happened to be rather expensive on the broker back then.

I know for just my own toons, I've ordered eight moonstone pools made.   I have one Aviak bath - the big one.  I really see quite a few of these on Antonia Bayle.    Many people use the Aviak bath as a 'lounging pool'  but use the smaller moonstone pools for their fountains and water features.   Not all of them are being used for bathtubs as you said.   There is also the use of number of pools and the practicality of buying the quest items to turn in for the Aviak Bath collection which on our server at least are fairly expensive.  I would just prefer entire new recipes     On the drop down menu idea though, wouldn't it be fun to have 'Foamy bubble bath?'   heehee

[Mystfit]

Unless I am missing something, there is only a larger sized bath and a larger sized half bath that is quested for? But, no quested version of the standard sized full and half. If that's the case, I gotta say...there is surely a need for a non-bubbly/steamy version. Many use them in situations were the addedd effects wouldn't be right and the size differneces between the quested and non-quested version makes them not really internchangable so to speak.

So, I'd ahve to add my voice to the idea that crafted versions of non-bubbly are needed muchy so

[Prrasha]

DominoDev wrote:

Actually there's two things going on. A sunken version of the pool is being added, AND, all the pools (both old and new) are getting the bubbles and steam effect.  This is to distinguish them from the quested versions of these items which are almost identical and result in a very low level of demand for the carpenter versions.  Hopefully, the change will make them a bit more desirable and unique from the quested versions. The original poster may find the bubbles look fine, but if not, the quested versions are still available for the 'flat' look.

I need to add my voice to the chorus of "new recipes, don't just make the old pools steamy!" There are a lot of people (go page through the Norrathian Homeshow forums, or search for "waterfall" or "garden" there) who use these pools--along with the oggokian rock chairs, oggokian tables, mystical mirrors, and various plant items--to make garden areas. I, for one, will be slightly perturbed when my Kelethinian wood-elf warden's tranquil shrine to Tunare turns into something that looks more like Karana and Rallos throwing a party in Steamfont mountains... And saying "use the quested versions for your gardens" doesn't quite work...  The quested versions are limited to 1 per character since collection quests aren't repeatable.  Decorators need a source of calm, tranquil water. Please add new recipes rather than just steamifying the old ones.

[Sapphirius]

I kind of have to agree with the OP on this. While the bubbles would make a welcome addition in my bathroom, especially considering the thought of purchasing a new moonstone pool to gain that effect makes me cringe, the addition of bubbles in all the various fountains and waterfalls I've designed makes me cringe even more. I'm not sure the bubbles and steam in my designs are going to be all that aesthetically pleasing.

I'd rather have bubbling pools be a new addition seperate from the existing ones, or have the bubbles and steam as a switchable option like our fireplaces. As for demand? Heh, I think I've ordered an inordinate amount of moonstone pools just for decorating people's houses. I probably use moonstone pools more often than anything else when I walk into someone's residence because they're so much smaller than the aviak baths.

Bathroom

Waterfall

[shadowflag]

LOL cool setups.  I always found those baths to be WAY too big.

[Sapphirius]

The "large moonstone pool" is actually a fraction of the size of the Aviak bath, and it's the perfect size for a human or barbarian's bathtub. Oh, and yes, that is a toilet in the corner of the screenshot. There will be no using of trees in Sapphy's house.

[TheSpin]

I also have to agree with the OP on this one.  I'm just getting into housing, but one of my goals to have in my finished house was a nice fountain.

If there are problems selling them I think it would be due to the fact that it requires someone experienced with home decorating to really make them look nice in most houses and many people avoid anything that big that they don't know what to do with.

Either an option to turn on and off the bubbles, or two recipes would be much preferable over replacing the calm water with bubbles.  I imagine people might enjoy bubbles on the aviak bath more than the crafted versions.

[beladi]

Nozomi - Sapphirus  - I love the screens you posted.   The border idea and the toilet, I may have to steal    Also, cool fountain.   I must say, I'm so heartened that others feel the same way on this issue and I'd love to see some more screenshots in here of gardens and fountains created with the normal moonstone pools. 

[Sapphirius]

Thank you. The burlap paintings look a lot like the Saltillo mission tiles, and they form part of the divider between my bathroom and living room. The toilet was made with a halfling drum, standard maple stool, and the quested wooden chest from Qeynos. I actually sunk a Rivervale scroll into the front to make it look like a flushing handle, but the picture cut that off the side. The Frostfell books are the perfect height for superimposing the halfling drum and stool, and the outside view of the burlap paintings makes an impressive impact on the room.

I can't take credit for the rock formation with the waterfall. That was something I saw done in Daetrin's house on Venekor, and I loved it so much, I changed the design a bit and did it in my LDL home. I had a lot of help from Sigrdrifa when it came to designing my own waterfall. I also build gardens using horned rugs, but my bane is that nothing can be placed on top of them. I have to overlay a rough linen rug and kind of guess where the edges of the carpet are, then remove the linen rug and hope I guessed right.

I kind of like superimposing furniture to make something new. An idea I stole from Sigrdrifa was place settings for my dining room. Now that bowls and chalices are coming out, I may redo my place settings. This was done with a small burlap rug, a halfling drum, the Stein of Moggok, and a Grobb scroll.

And since Sapphirius is a Karanite druid, and Nozomi is agnostic, I superimposed the altars of Tunare and Brell and sank htem into the wall. Then I added a snow drift and the Froglok tablet to make an altar to Karana.

Yes, decorating is something of a passion of mine. I love walking into a home and then leaving it with something that just takes the owner's breath away. Now, if I could only get those annoying floating hearts to go away on my single candles. Then, I'd be in absolute heaven.

[StargateFanGirl]

Well if the purpose of the change is to distinguish quested from crafted then why not add the bubbles and steam to the quested versions instead? I doubt they're as widely used in decorating projects as the crafted versions so it'll cause far fewer problems for folks with specially designed homes.

[Calthine]

How about if you can switch it on and off, like the Frostfell trees?

[Deson]

Calthine wrote:

How about if you can switch it on and off, like the Frostfell trees?

Don't selected effects go away when the owner leaves the house?Something to that effect anyway that makes the look inconsistent.

[Lilj]

Switching on and off could be an idea, but it means visitors won't see the 'turned on' version. The fire from Frostfell was only on when you turned it on, but it didn't stay 'on' if you left. So visitors always got the turned off version. So personally I'm not too happy about the turning on and off idea, because it will mean that the baths will seen as turned off in reality.

[beladi]

Liljna wrote:

Switching on and off could be an idea, but it means visitors won't see the 'turned on' version. The fire from Frostfell was only on when you turned it on, but it didn't stay 'on' if you left. So visitors always got the turned off version. So personally I'm not too happy about the turning on and off idea, because it will mean that the baths will seen as turned off in reality.

Hmm.. good point.  Perhaps adding in additional recipes to the plain moonstone tubs would be better then,  ala 'bubbly'

[Britefire]

Maby........the pristine could be bubbly and all others not...............just maby

[Deson]

Britefire wrote:

Maby........the pristine could be bubbly and all others not...............just maby

Non-pristine currently has a lower status value and soon we are moving to a pristine only system.

[Domino]

This post gives me a headache. Nobody will be happy with any solution.  Probably more people will complain if the quested version gets the bubbles.  And an on/off switch is not a possibility.  I can't do that.  And 6 separate moonstone pool recipes is ridiculous. I really believe carpenter items should be different in appearance from quest rewards, and this seems the least invasive way of doing this. Yes, it may mean some people have to redecorate slightly, but is that really going to kill anyone?  People redecorate constantly anyway, for fun.  I haven't seen any screenshot yet where the quested pool couldn't be used for a very similar and equally nice effect.  And it's easy to get multiples - just roll up an alt and turn in the feathers collection.  Admittedly the quested half-pool isn't easy to get, but few people seem to use it. And can I also add, a 2-page thread petitioning for a change (which is, technically speaking, against the forum rules) is a little premature when the change hasn't even hit test server yet.  Nobody's even seen these in person yet. Here's what I suggest: 1. quit panicking 2. wait and see what they look like in person on test server 3. consider how hard it would really be to swap out to a quested pool, if it seems necessary I'm also going to look into whether it's possible to add some other pools (totally different shapes, without bubbles) which might be used to redecorate those tranquil pools with too.  If I can find some good graphics that work, these could be an even nicer looking option. If enough folks are still really opposed to the bubbles I will simply remove them from all but the new sunken pool.  But I think this would be a shame, and I really do believe the carpenter-made furniture should be unique.  Size alone is not enough difference. /em goes to find some aspirin