Neriak Housing - Now as Big as an Ogre's Backside!

[CyriexVTZ]

I just have to say, I totally, and utterly, adore the new Neriak as seen on test, and the 3 and 5 Room housing seen so far is designed beautifully. Totally wonderful in fact. Just one problem.. The rooms are WAY too small for, in my humble opinion, any practical use. Standard furniture items like Desks, Tables (warped Oak for example) and Counters are frankly *too large* to even fit in the smaller rooms, and totally dominate the entrance foyers. I really really really hope to see the floor space scaled up in each room in the Neriak housing. The height is fine (love the lower ceilings), I just really think all players are going to need more space if they're going to be able to even modestly decorate these fine new homes. Doubling the size, then maybe some more, would still leave them feeling more snug than comparable room housing in Freeport or Qeynos (and feeling snug is good for a city that's built underground) , but at least we'll have room to decorate! Thank You!

[Novusod]

Rather than make the houses bigger, they should make the furniture smaller. Remember this is supossed to be housing for tiny Arsai and smallish dark elves yet all the furniture seems as if it were designed for Ogres and Barabarians. No wonder it doesn't fit. I say make the furniture scale to the size of these rooms.

[ChildofHate]

Novusod wrote:

Rather than make the houses bigger, they should make the furniture smaller. Remember this is supossed to be housing for tiny Arsai and smallish dark elves yet all the furniture seems as if it were designed for Ogres and Barabarians. No wonder it doesn't fit. I say make the furniture scale to the size of these rooms.

Umm...  since day ONE, there has never been an issue of the furniture being "too big" for the "smallish dark elves".  Stereo-typically, the average dark elf is roughly 4'5" - 5'5".  Normal-sized furniture works just fine.

I have to agree with the original post.  Neriak is beautiful, without a doubt.  Player housing...  let's take about 48 hours of dev time to revisit it and do it again.  Resizing furniture is inargueably not the answer.  Making the rooms larger on the otherhand, given 48 hours or less, is an easy fix.  Saying that they are "Arasai-sized" is not the answer either.  Neriak didn't all of a sudden just go on the Atkins diet and reduce everything, just to help the little finged freaks feel at home.

Housing volume needs fixed.

[ke'la]

There is accually another thread on this, however I wanted to reply to the Arasai Sized house thing. I have been in these houses with an Arasai and they are Crapt even for a Race that small, I can't Imagine what an Orc would be like in there.

[Tearsa]

I have posted once in the other thread, but I really hope the dev's will hear us out on this. Even the lay out for the shops would make an excellent home if they need ideas. And the whole.."the houses were made for arasai" has nothing to do with the Dev's designing the houses way too small. Even an arasai would feel cramped in there. Everything else looks great in Neriak...but it feels like you cannot breathe in the houses. Please take another look at housing!

[Catria]

Novusod wrote:

Rather than make the houses bigger, they should make the furniture smaller. Remember this is supossed to be housing for tiny Arsai and smallish dark elves yet all the furniture seems as if it were designed for Ogres and Barabarians. No wonder it doesn't fit. I say make the furniture scale to the size of these rooms.

Altho the Arasai, being the newest race, are a focal point of the Neriak addition to the game, Neriak is still the home city of the Dark Elves.  Other races also traditionally live in Neriak, including Trolls and Ogres.  It is not unreasonable, then, for us to request that housing in Neriak be made a suitable size for all the races that can call Neriak home. 

[Tandy]

When I first took my arasai into the 5 room in Neriak I was just positive it was really the 1 room inn room just split up to make it look fancy, cause it was SO SMALL.

I dont think even 1/4 of my dark elf's belongings will fit when he moves back home, they really do need to be a lot bigger.

[Kithi]

Neriak itself looks amazing and I am glad to have it back.

On the other hand, the housing is....a let down. I cannot believe the devs would think these rooms would be suitable housing for even a new player with minimal items. I have 300+ items in my Freeport stronghold and was looking forward to moving to Neriak 5 room, but how can I when not even a ironwood bed or even a briarwood bed will fit comfortably into any of the rooms?

Please rethink the layout on the housing...I would not even go as far as to ask for the rooms to be as large as Qeynos of Freeport...wait-yes I would. Lets say at LEAST big enough to fit a few pieces of furniture comfortably and some breathing space. Thats fair.

[Polywogus]

If races other than Arasai are allowed to purchase the homes there, then it's only reasonable to have the home fit other races, seeing that the furniture does not scale. I heard about this the day it went on the test server, sad that it's not been changed...

[amazing j]

We really need an answer to this, i'm going to want to move to Neriak come hell or high water. But expecting someone to pay several plat for the only half-inhabbitable house thats there is ridiculous when you can't even fit a dining table or a bed in there.

[Radigazt]

I agree with the OP wholeheartedly.  I absolutely love the look of the Neriak housing, I finally feel content in a house for the very first time.  But, it's definitely too small.  I'd say the current 3 room version is about the right size for a 1 room apartment in all honesty.  The 5 room version has a neat design with the hallway(s) upstairs, but it's just way too small.  IMHO, the first floor (all 3 rooms) should be the 1 room apartment cost and (2) box slots.  Then they should use the stairs for the 2nd and 3rd rooms and make each room as large as the entrance foyer for the 3 room versions (with equivalent box slots and costs).  IMHO, the 5 room versions should be 3 floors with stairs from the 2nd to 3rd floors.  On the 3rd floor they should have rooms 4 and 5, with each room as large as the entrance foyer. 

Otherwise, the hugely positive reception of these housing options will be lost becaue everyone will feel so cramped.  I don't mind the Neriak housing being smaller ... but this is way too small IMHO. 

[AvalonSpirit]

out of curiosity do we know what the cost listings are for these new homes yet?

[Catria]

I've seen several threads that mention the size of Neriak housing either in passing or as the main topic, but have not found any dev response...

 Could we get some sort of official response on this subject if at all possible?  Something along the lines of A) Yes we know you hate the size and plan to fix it, B) We are considering the situation, or C) No way in Sol Eye are we going to change this. 

[Serso]

From the looks of it, this issue truly needs serious addressing. =

[Haohmaru]

Howdy all! I don't think the latest push to Test has happened just yet, but against the first push, I've increased all home sizes by about 15% over what you're likely seeing now - it doesn't sound like a lot, but it does feel quite different. Part of the reason is that against Kelethins homes, these are more architecturally diverse and that can eat into usable space even if about the same size overall. Given this and along with the size increase, I've flattened most 'lips' around the lower walls and all window sills so they can now be used as well. The ceiling area has been further flattened to allow for more ceiling placement. We do need to strike a size balance with these homes against their counterparts so I can't guarantee anything more just yet, but I'm definitely aware of the concerns and this is the first pass at addressing them. Thanks for the feedback and please do keep it coming! :)

[Polywogus]

Good to hear, hopefully the change will be enough

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Polywogus wrote:

Good to hear, hopefully the change will be enough

Concurrence be had, matey!... However, if more ought be done, then I also hope that such be allowed.

[Seraki]

I think people who have gone to lengths to decorate their houses will be the most concerned with the room size.   My daughter took a look at it and she says there is no way she could ever fit her current household into the Neriak house rooms.   The gothic look is really nice but furniture needs to be able to fit in it.  

 We will of course check it out after the new adjustment goes to test.    I have a feeling this thread will live on for a while =P.

[ChildofHate]

Haohmaru wrote:

Howdy all! I don't think the latest push to Test has happened just yet, but against the first push, I've increased all home sizes by about 15% over what you're likely seeing now - it doesn't sound like a lot, but it does feel quite different. Part of the reason is that against Kelethins homes, these are more architecturally diverse and that can eat into usable space even if about the same size overall. Given this and along with the size increase, I've flattened most 'lips' around the lower walls and all window sills so they can now be used as well. The ceiling area has been further flattened to allow for more ceiling placement. We do need to strike a size balance with these homes against their counterparts so I can't guarantee anything more just yet, but I'm definitely aware of the concerns and this is the first pass at addressing them. Thanks for the feedback and please do keep it coming!

"Howdy all!

We made the Kelethin housing very small and realize that but dont intend to fix them or at least make them any bigger.  Since Neriak is the counterpart to Kelethin... it's only fair we give you smaller housing as well.  But we will throw out terms like 'architecturally diverse' and excuses such as 'can eat into usable space even if about the same size overall".  But please dont compare the housing in these two zones with the larger housing found in Freeport or Qeynos.  Because then you would be calling us out and we are not prepared to give you legitimate answers.  But in order to make this sound better, we are going to tell you that basically we made more surfaces usable (as in you can put stuff on them) but didn't really make anything bigger.  But if we tell you we made the overall size 15% larger, then you will think we did something proactive in regards to your posts about the micron-sized houses we designed.

Thanks for your feedback and go ahead and keep posting.  but we aren't going to make any further changes to increase physical size.  "

[CyriexVTZ]

Woohoo! Thank you Haohmaru! looking forward to seeing the touched up gorgous Neriak housing as soon as Test is updated!

[Radigazt]

Haohmaru wrote:

Howdy all! I don't think the latest push to Test has happened just yet, but against the first push, I've increased all home sizes by about 15% over what you're likely seeing now - it doesn't sound like a lot, but it does feel quite different. Part of the reason is that against Kelethins homes, these are more architecturally diverse and that can eat into usable space even if about the same size overall. Given this and along with the size increase, I've flattened most 'lips' around the lower walls and all window sills so they can now be used as well. The ceiling area has been further flattened to allow for more ceiling placement. We do need to strike a size balance with these homes against their counterparts so I can't guarantee anything more just yet, but I'm definitely aware of the concerns and this is the first pass at addressing them. Thanks for the feedback and please do keep it coming!

Thanks for the 15% increase, I hope it's enough, though I sincerely doubt it will be.  I'll post again after I have a chance to check it out. 

I'm in favor of the flattening of the 'lips' around the lower walls, but honestly, I like the 3-dimensionality of the cielings and windows. 

IMHO, you should 1) increase the size factor by 40%, not just 15%, and 2) make the 2nd/3rd floor rooms the equivalent of the front-entry-foyer room (much larger) instead of the smaller half-sized back rooms. 

If the reason is relating to the Kelethin houses, you could always make those a little bigger.  The Qeynos/Freeport houses are freakin huge, but Neriak is simply too small, and I'm thinking even these changes will not quite be enough.    I'm not asking for Qeynos/Freeport sized rooms--I understand the coolness factor and underground nature of Neriak are part of it's appeal--but it's gotta be able to hold the furniture designed for the more expensive 3 and 5 roomed houses. 

I look forward to seeing the 1 room Neriak housing.  Perhaps located near the tradeskill caves?  I'm also hoping there will be status-cost 3 and 5 room housing. 

[CyriexVTZ]

Well, I've seen the new 1 room Neriak housing and the improved 15% bigger 3 and 5 rooms. While I defiantly think the 15% improvement is that, an improvement, I do still strongly feel that the rooms are too small in scale compared to the furniture items that exist in game. Another 15-25% on top of what has been done should be enough to allow tables such as the Cobalt long table to fit into a room without prevent characters from running around the sides.. I really do understand the desire to make the rooms 'snug', but there HAS to be enough room to at least fit a spattering of the larger furniture items in there.. All the other tweaks and changes, flattened ceilings and walls, all seem very nice indeed! Just a little more floor space please!

[Zeuhl]

I too hope that there will be another size increase on Neriak houses. My dark elf is already making preparations to move home and as a carpenter he has more than his share of furniture to decorate with. With the current size of the homes he will have to ditch a lot of his larger furniture. I understand that Neriak is underground and not going to be huge like Freeport but the housing is still a little too small. I think another 15-20% should be just fine.

[Radigazt]

The increase in size of 15% was a step in the right direction, it's not enough yet, but it definitely helped.  I'd say that a total increase of 25% to 30% (i.e. another 10% to 15%) might do the trick for the 3 room houses.  I had the walls lined with stuff previously, so I can see exactly how much space was added, and it was appreciated.  One more boost of that size would be just right, snug, but just right. 

I'm still of the mind that the 5 room houses should have the bigger room as the 4th and 5th rooms instead of two more smaller rooms. 

All in all, it definitely feels less cramped, Kudos SOE.  But, it's still a bit too small IMHO. 

[Haohmaru]

Hello again!

 Got some great news, and some bad news.

 Great news first. I told y'all I'd watch the feedback and I meant it :) Basically, some old ideals that really never made sense were drop kicked so we could open up these new homes further and affect anything we do in the future. This just means that all Neriak housing has undergone further renovation. Norm Abrams ftw. To give an example, the Neriak 3room you're seeing on Test today (5/17) almost fits within the newer Neriak 1room - near doubling the overall size. The 3 and 5room homes have had their size increased by the same amount - the 5room has seen the addition of a basement (by special, if not creepy, request ;) These homes are all now approximately the same size as the Freeport/Qeynos homes. The Neriak (and Kelethin as it is already) 1room homes are larger than the Qeynos/Freeport 1rooms for example.

And I didn't forget about Kelethin. The 4room has seen an addition of another floor, comprised of 2 more bonus rooms (but don't call it a 6room home. Call it a 4room with a loft or two ;) It's size is also on par with the other 5rooms. You'll magically see a new pathway appear in one of the rooms leading down to the new floor. This will of course affect a small amount of placed houseitems where the pathway is to appear, but I figure that's a small price to pay. If all goes well, this will go out with GU35 too. The other Kelethin homes (1/2/3) are already comparable to the 1 and 3room Qeynos/Freeport/Neriak homes (the 3room Kelethin home has always been bigger than the Qeynos 3room as another example).

And all of this is just the first (second? ;) pass. All homes could very well grow again in the future (Freeport/Qeynos included of course) equally to accomodate our growing collections, but, I can give little info as to when this may happen. I will say in the future, I intend to finally allow access to that "shove all my status, pets or seasonal items in here" kinda-sorta-but-not-a-room in the Freeport 5room, or the secretly inaccessible secret room in the Qeynos 5room along with some performance improvements on the older homes to bring them up to par.

But wait! There's more great news! Forum Member and optimist 'ChildofHate' will have their home replaced with a custom home built just for them! Known as "Casa de la Caja de Cartón", it's sure to please even the most scrutinous homebuyer in Norrath!

 And now for the bad news... I... can't really make ChildofHate his own home... even for the would-be grand prank of watching the reaction when they zone into a 3x3 closet to amuse my cynical side (and the 20people I'd get to watch with me!) for a minute.  

I really did ask if I could too >:) 

There's more to come, and more on my mind I want to do. You can rest assured I'll do what I can, as I can, to keep our homes growing right along with our journeys in Norrath.

[walaruss]

great work, thanks a lot

now you can go back and work on guild cities, we will expect them to come with rok

[Sinafe]

WOOT! That is great news. I can stop running around trying to get screen shots to prove how much bigger Kel's rooms are. Thats awesome about the room additions too.

 One thing I did notice is that there is no "housing" npc to get the starter housing quest from. This usually gets you the basic table, mirror, market board ect.

[Nakash]

Haohmaru wrote:

Hello again!

 Got some great news, and some bad news.

 Great news first. I told y'all I'd watch the feedback and I meant it Basically, some old ideals that really never made sense were drop kicked so we could open up these new homes further and affect anything we do in the future. This just means that all Neriak housing has undergone further renovation. Norm Abrams ftw. To give an example, the Neriak 3room you're seeing on Test today (5/17) almost fits within the newer Neriak 1room - near doubling the overall size. The 3 and 5room homes have had their size increased by the same amount - the 5room has seen the addition of a basement (by special, if not creepy, request These homes are all now approximately the same size as the Freeport/Qeynos homes. The Neriak (and Kelethin as it is already) 1room homes are larger than the Qeynos/Freeport 1rooms for example.

And I didn't forget about Kelethin. The 4room has seen an addition of another floor, comprised of 2 more bonus rooms (but don't call it a 6room home. Call it a 4room with a loft or two It's size is also on par with the other 5rooms. You'll magically see a new pathway appear in one of the rooms leading down to the new floor. This will of course affect a small amount of placed houseitems where the pathway is to appear, but I figure that's a small price to pay. If all goes well, this will go out with GU35 too. The other Kelethin homes (1/2/3) are already comparable to the 1 and 3room Qeynos/Freeport/Neriak homes (the 3room Kelethin home has always been bigger than the Qeynos 3room as another example).

Awesome News. Thank you. PS: And plz add me to the watchlist of the "Casa de la Caja de Cartón" 3x3 event when it ever comes to it...

[Martrae]

AWESOME!!!!

[CyriexVTZ]

Haohmaru, I have but one more question. Is it live yet?! Hehe.. These changes sound totally wonderfully awesome on every level. I CANT WAIT to see them!