Why do we PvP? – A ladder system would add one more reason.

Magic8Ba · 05-04-2007, 01:49 PM

Why do we PvP? – A ladder system would add one more reason. Why do we PvP? 1. Fun/Challenging 2. Fame/Title 3. Tokens 4. Factions/Status points 5. Comradery/Companionship 6. Guild Recognition 7. We are disgruntled angry people that just like killing Whatever the motive, we all do it for a reason. And the more reasons we have the more we PvP. Well, what if we could add another reason. To be the top group of players on a ladder board. An example might help illustrate this: Master Rolly Ranger (L70) and General Feisty Fury(L70) are registered as a duo team named “Rolln Em”. They check the ladder board for Duo’s and find that they are in second place behind another team by only 2pts. They roll out looking for kills. They find some solos – of course they kill em. Who wouldn’t. They find a group of 4 – all white cons. A general and 4 Dreds. 1 Scout, a tank, a healer and a wizard. It would be very difficult under the current system to motivate Rolly and Feisty to fight this group. Suicide and fame loss is all that is offered. But – Rolln Em really wants that top Duo leader board spot. They decide to sacrifice personal fame/title for the team. They plan on killing the wizard first and Cheetah out. All they want is 0.25 points for this encounter. The plan goes w/o a hitch. They run into the same group again 15mins later. Since the wizard is on the recent list, they won’t get any more points for killing him. So they try again w/the scout as a target. Plan goes badly – scout was too fast and the tank taunts them off. Then Rolly and Feisty wipe. They lose fame. They shrug it off. Their goal is to take the leader board. All day long they take on bigger groups – slowly gaining .25 points here and there. At the end of the day they rack up 3pts and are 1st place on the leader board. Who benefits? Everyone - more PvP occurred. The duo feel a sense of accomplishment as a team – they really had to work together to be successful. All the bigger groups they took on got to PvP, fame, tokens, etc. As it is now – Rolly and Feisty could have ran and evaced all day long. Just think about… a leader board that says your GROUP should be feared/respected. Personal fame is good – but group recognition… that’s where it’s at. One more reason to fight – one more reason we all win… - Blink - - - - - A ladder system – A work in progress What if: You could register groups for say 50g with the accountant in the harbor. (this fee will insure only serious groups enter the ladder database) I’m thinking only duos, trios, and quartets can register (five and six group members might be hard to consistently form and points for them would be limited). The registered group can be named like a ‘mini guild’. Points are awarded to the registered group and tracked on a ladder board - see examples below. The points are awarded if you are grouped and you fight a grouped. But due to zoning, big zones, etc, a total wipe is not necessary for points. You get 0.25 pts a kill of another group member and bonus points if you wipe the entire group. Recent list rules would still apply. Bonus Points for wiping a group: Duos killing a solo – no points Duos wiping a duo – 1 point Duos wiping a trio – 2 points Duos wiping a quartet – 3 points Duos wiping a five grp – 4 Duos wiping a 6 grp – 5pts Trio killing a solo – no points Trio wiping a duo – no point Trios wiping a trio – 1 points Trios wiping a quartet – 2 points Trios wiping a five grp – 3 points Trios wiping a 6 grp – 4 points You get the idea for quartets…. Points are never taken away only added! Duos, trios, and quartets each have their own ladder. THIS WILL ENCOURAGE PVP BECAUSE WEAKER GROUPS HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO ATTACK LARGER GROUPS Maybe a star*, tilda ~, and Chevron ^ can be added to the personal fame title like - Champion* for top 30, Champion~, top 20, Champion^ for top ten. This would only show if you are in the appropriate group. (example if you are in your duo group – Champion*, but in your death squad group of 4 – you are Champion^) Or something else that’s simple but shows ingame your rank on the leader board.

tass · 05-04-2007, 02:23 PM

You need a reason to pvp? Well my reason is so I can beat the [Removed for Content] out of someone and than corpse hump them. Of course its much more fun when u can communicate with them and then desribe in detail the [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] that ensued after the beatdown when they whine like a little [Removed for Content]. Good enough reason?

Killque · 05-04-2007, 02:23 PM

Only a few problems I see with this

Hey guys, can I join you! Nope, were ladder'ed up.
Schedule conflicts within group memebers will make the entire system awckward.

Magic8Ba · 05-04-2007, 02:42 PM

Killque wrote:

Only a few problems I see with this
Hey guys, can I join you! Nope, were ladder'ed up.
Schedule conflicts within group memebers will make the entire system awckward.

Hmm - Register a new group - unlike guilds you can belong to as many GROUPS as you like. As for schedule - no one can avoid that. But again - the best groups will be on more - such is life w/online gaming... - Blink

Bozidar · 05-04-2007, 02:46 PM

I honestly don't need another reason to pvp. If the duo in your example fought like they did, they wouldn't have ANY titles, the opposing teams wouldn't be getting any fame, and it would be an easy thing for them to hang out near an X4 friendly raid, and just leach "points".

Ladder systems like this can't work w/o instanced pvp, and instanced pvp will kill open-world pvp.

Tanker1 · 05-04-2007, 02:53 PM

tass wrote:

Well my reason is so I can beat the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of someone and than corpse hump them. Of course its much more fun when u can communicate with them and then desribe in detail the [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] that ensued after the beatdown when they whine like a little [I cannot control my vocabulary].

Thank Tunare for small miracles. So glad I cant have some geek sending me a tell about how awesome he is because his 6 man group took me out while I was harvesting solo.

Magic8Ba · 05-04-2007, 02:55 PM

Bozidar wrote:

I honestly don't need another reason to pvp. If the duo in your example fought like they did, they wouldn't have ANY titles, the opposing teams wouldn't be getting any fame, and it would be an easy thing for them to hang out near an X4 friendly raid, and just leach "points".

Imagine that... people who pvp and don't care about fame/titles - the opposing team still gets tokens? status? the enjoyment of more pvp? As for friendly raid leaching... that's different than current PvP how? (If you are in a raid you get no points - just to be clear) The ladder isn't going to be for everyone - no problem - nothing has changed for them. But for a lot of folks a ladder could add a lot of fun. - Blink

Bozidar · 05-04-2007, 03:03 PM

Magic8Ball wrote:

Imagine that... people who pvp and don't care about fame/titles - the opposing team still gets tokens? status? the enjoyment of more pvp? As for friendly raid leaching... that's different than current PvP how? (If you are in a raid you get no points - just to be clear) The ladder isn't going to be for everyone - no problem - nothing has changed for them. But for a lot of folks a ladder could add a lot of fun. - Blink

my point was that "ladder" guys would do nothing but zerg in order to get their points, because if all that matters is KILLS and not DEATHS, then who cares? Just zerg away! Attack that raid X4, pick off a target, and come get one again.

The point of a ladder system would be to show that a duo are skilled pvp players. It would just wind up being even less meaningful than the other systems out there now meant to promote pvp and people just claim that said systems make people run.

I don't need another reason to pvp.. i like killing people, a lot. No other incentive needed.

Greenion · 05-04-2007, 03:10 PM

i'm on a pvp strike until exiles get status and faction toward pvp gear...

...till then im not killing anyone...

haz! take thatz.

justDARK11 · 05-05-2007, 04:20 AM

tass wrote:

You need a reason to pvp? Well my reason is so I can beat the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of someone and than corpse hump them. Of course its much more fun when u can communicate with them and then desribe in detail the [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] that ensued after the beatdown when they whine like a little [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Good enough reason?

i feel sorrow for you ... and btw: its only a game !

tass · 05-05-2007, 06:52 AM

pfft theres nothing like a quick 5 second kill and then a grey person whining in the area chat how your a greifer. Its 1 of the things that makes vanguard so classic. And what makes it even moree classic is when a gm finnaly types in the area chat for the noob to s t f u and die. god I love ffa pvp

Magic8Ba · 05-08-2007, 02:15 PM

Apparently, a lot of people are in the reason #7 category... - Blink

Bozidar · 05-08-2007, 02:18 PM

...or a lot of people thought your idea sucked and wasn't worth discussing on ANY of the forums you cross-posted on.

Magic8Ba · 05-08-2007, 02:46 PM

Bozidar wrote:

...or a lot of people thought your idea sucked and wasn't worth discussing on ANY of the forums you cross-posted on.

LOL - I get drama? I live on Naga.... - Blink

Greeen-_-Ranger · 05-08-2007, 02:49 PM

To qoute office space "This idea is very, very bad...it is horrible idea"

05-04-2007, 01:49 PM	#1
Magic8Ba General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 73	Why do we PvP? – A ladder system would add one more reason. Why do we PvP? 1. Fun/Challenging 2. Fame/Title 3. Tokens 4. Factions/Status points 5. Comradery/Companionship 6. Guild Recognition 7. We are disgruntled angry people that just like killing Whatever the motive, we all do it for a reason. And the more reasons we have the more we PvP. Well, what if we could add another reason. To be the top group of players on a ladder board. An example might help illustrate this: Master Rolly Ranger (L70) and General Feisty Fury(L70) are registered as a duo team named “Rolln Em”. They check the ladder board for Duo’s and find that they are in second place behind another team by only 2pts. They roll out looking for kills. They find some solos – of course they kill em. Who wouldn’t. They find a group of 4 – all white cons. A general and 4 Dreds. 1 Scout, a tank, a healer and a wizard. It would be very difficult under the current system to motivate Rolly and Feisty to fight this group. Suicide and fame loss is all that is offered. But – Rolln Em really wants that top Duo leader board spot. They decide to sacrifice personal fame/title for the team. They plan on killing the wizard first and Cheetah out. All they want is 0.25 points for this encounter. The plan goes w/o a hitch. They run into the same group again 15mins later. Since the wizard is on the recent list, they won’t get any more points for killing him. So they try again w/the scout as a target. Plan goes badly – scout was too fast and the tank taunts them off. Then Rolly and Feisty wipe. They lose fame. They shrug it off. Their goal is to take the leader board. All day long they take on bigger groups – slowly gaining .25 points here and there. At the end of the day they rack up 3pts and are 1st place on the leader board. Who benefits? Everyone - more PvP occurred. The duo feel a sense of accomplishment as a team – they really had to work together to be successful. All the bigger groups they took on got to PvP, fame, tokens, etc. As it is now – Rolly and Feisty could have ran and evaced all day long. Just think about… a leader board that says your GROUP should be feared/respected. Personal fame is good – but group recognition… that’s where it’s at. One more reason to fight – one more reason we all win… - Blink - - - - - A ladder system – A work in progress What if: You could register groups for say 50g with the accountant in the harbor. (this fee will insure only serious groups enter the ladder database) I’m thinking only duos, trios, and quartets can register (five and six group members might be hard to consistently form and points for them would be limited). The registered group can be named like a ‘mini guild’. Points are awarded to the registered group and tracked on a ladder board - see examples below. The points are awarded if you are grouped and you fight a grouped. But due to zoning, big zones, etc, a total wipe is not necessary for points. You get 0.25 pts a kill of another group member and bonus points if you wipe the entire group. Recent list rules would still apply. Bonus Points for wiping a group: Duos killing a solo – no points Duos wiping a duo – 1 point Duos wiping a trio – 2 points Duos wiping a quartet – 3 points Duos wiping a five grp – 4 Duos wiping a 6 grp – 5pts Trio killing a solo – no points Trio wiping a duo – no point Trios wiping a trio – 1 points Trios wiping a quartet – 2 points Trios wiping a five grp – 3 points Trios wiping a 6 grp – 4 points You get the idea for quartets…. Points are never taken away only added! Duos, trios, and quartets each have their own ladder. THIS WILL ENCOURAGE PVP BECAUSE WEAKER GROUPS HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO ATTACK LARGER GROUPS Maybe a star, tilda ~, and Chevron ^ can be added to the personal fame title like - Champion for top 30, Champion~, top 20, Champion^ for top ten. This would only show if you are in the appropriate group. (example if you are in your duo group – Champion*, but in your death squad group of 4 – you are Champion^) Or something else that’s simple but shows ingame your rank on the leader board. __________________ Illusionist since launch - Nagafen "Row your boat... life is but a dream..."

05-04-2007, 02:23 PM	#3
Killque Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,112	Only a few problems I see with this Hey guys, can I join you! Nope, were ladder'ed up. Schedule conflicts within group memebers will make the entire system awckward.

05-04-2007, 02:42 PM	#4
Magic8Ba General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 73	Killque wrote: Only a few problems I see with this Hey guys, can I join you! Nope, were ladder'ed up. Schedule conflicts within group memebers will make the entire system awckward. Hmm - Register a new group - unlike guilds you can belong to as many GROUPS as you like. As for schedule - no one can avoid that. But again - the best groups will be on more - such is life w/online gaming... - Blink __________________ Illusionist since launch - Nagafen "Row your boat... life is but a dream..."

05-04-2007, 02:53 PM	#6
Tanker1 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18	tass wrote: Well my reason is so I can beat the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of someone and than corpse hump them. Of course its much more fun when u can communicate with them and then desribe in detail the [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] that ensued after the beatdown when they whine like a little [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Thank Tunare for small miracles. So glad I cant have some geek sending me a tell about how awesome he is because his 6 man group took me out while I was harvesting solo.

05-04-2007, 03:03 PM	#8
Bozidar Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,292	Magic8Ball wrote: Imagine that... people who pvp and don't care about fame/titles - the opposing team still gets tokens? status? the enjoyment of more pvp? As for friendly raid leaching... that's different than current PvP how? (If you are in a raid you get no points - just to be clear) The ladder isn't going to be for everyone - no problem - nothing has changed for them. But for a lot of folks a ladder could add a lot of fun. - Blink my point was that "ladder" guys would do nothing but zerg in order to get their points, because if all that matters is KILLS and not DEATHS, then who cares? Just zerg away! Attack that raid X4, pick off a target, and come get one again. The point of a ladder system would be to show that a duo are skilled pvp players. It would just wind up being even less meaningful than the other systems out there now meant to promote pvp and people just claim that said systems make people run. I don't need another reason to pvp.. i like killing people, a lot. No other incentive needed.

05-04-2007, 02:23 PM	#2
tass Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,097	You need a reason to pvp? Well my reason is so I can beat the [Removed for Content] out of someone and than corpse hump them. Of course its much more fun when u can communicate with them and then desribe in detail the [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] that ensued after the beatdown when they whine like a little [Removed for Content]. Good enough reason?

05-04-2007, 02:46 PM	#5
Bozidar Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,292	I honestly don't need another reason to pvp. If the duo in your example fought like they did, they wouldn't have ANY titles, the opposing teams wouldn't be getting any fame, and it would be an easy thing for them to hang out near an X4 friendly raid, and just leach "points". Ladder systems like this can't work w/o instanced pvp, and instanced pvp will kill open-world pvp.

05-04-2007, 02:55 PM	#7
Magic8Ba General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 73	Bozidar wrote: I honestly don't need another reason to pvp. If the duo in your example fought like they did, they wouldn't have ANY titles, the opposing teams wouldn't be getting any fame, and it would be an easy thing for them to hang out near an X4 friendly raid, and just leach "points". Imagine that... people who pvp and don't care about fame/titles - the opposing team still gets tokens? status? the enjoyment of more pvp? As for friendly raid leaching... that's different than current PvP how? (If you are in a raid you get no points - just to be clear) The ladder isn't going to be for everyone - no problem - nothing has changed for them. But for a lot of folks a ladder could add a lot of fun. - Blink __________________ Illusionist since launch - Nagafen "Row your boat... life is but a dream..."

05-04-2007, 03:10 PM	#9
Greenion Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: behind you, stealthed. Posts: 876	i'm on a pvp strike until exiles get status and faction toward pvp gear... ...till then im not killing anyone... haz! take thatz. __________________

05-05-2007, 04:20 AM	#10
justDARK11 Lord Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5	tass wrote: You need a reason to pvp? Well my reason is so I can beat the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of someone and than corpse hump them. Of course its much more fun when u can communicate with them and then desribe in detail the [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] that ensued after the beatdown when they whine like a little [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Good enough reason? i feel sorrow for you ... and btw: its only a game !

05-05-2007, 06:52 AM	#11
tass Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,097	pfft theres nothing like a quick 5 second kill and then a grey person whining in the area chat how your a greifer. Its 1 of the things that makes vanguard so classic. And what makes it even moree classic is when a gm finnaly types in the area chat for the noob to s t f u and die. god I love ffa pvp

05-08-2007, 02:15 PM	#12
Magic8Ba General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 73	Apparently, a lot of people are in the reason #7 category... - Blink __________________ Illusionist since launch - Nagafen "Row your boat... life is but a dream..."

05-08-2007, 02:18 PM	#13
Bozidar Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,292	...or a lot of people thought your idea sucked and wasn't worth discussing on ANY of the forums you cross-posted on.

05-08-2007, 02:46 PM	#14
Magic8Ba General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 73	Bozidar wrote: ...or a lot of people thought your idea sucked and wasn't worth discussing on ANY of the forums you cross-posted on. LOL - I get drama? I live on Naga.... - Blink __________________ Illusionist since launch - Nagafen "Row your boat... life is but a dream..."

05-08-2007, 02:49 PM	#15
Greeen-_-Ranger Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nagafen Posts: 296	To qoute office space "This idea is very, very bad...it is horrible idea"