Dual weilding with Wurmslayer (primary) and using Pred AA's

ChildofHate · 01-03-2007, 11:12 PM

I noticed last night that i wasn't able to use Poison Combination when i had my wurmy equipped primary. Now i know that the wurmslayer is not techincally a dagger so i understand that it obviously shouldn't work with PC since it specifically states "must have dagger in primary slot". So how is the DW version of Wurmslayer classified. It does say "piercing" for it's damage type but nothing more then that. My AA focus is STR and INT. I can't use blade opening with wurmy either since it isn't a slashing weapon. Find that to be very restrictive for assassin abilities for those who put the wurmslayer in their primary.

Can something be done about this please to accomidate piercers so we can take full advantage of our skills? The wurmy is obviously not a rapier so it wouldn't work with the wisdom line and it doesn't say that it's a spear in the desc so it shouldn't work with stamina either. Where does that leave us?

Thanks.

Kaiser Sigma · 01-04-2007, 12:20 AM

ChildofHate wrote:

The wurmy is obviously not a rapier so it wouldn't work with the wisdom line and it doesn't say that it's a spear in the desc so it shouldn't work with stamina either. Where does that leave us?

Actually right above "Dual Wield Piercing" it says clearly: "Spear". Now, whether it works with the STA line or not is beyond me but the weapon *is* classified as something.

ChildofHate · 01-04-2007, 01:26 AM

[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]! you're right... rofl, good grief... no idea how i missed that. Well, guessing then it would probably work with the Stamina line. oh well for me! :smileyvery-happy: /self_bonk

whytakemine · 01-05-2007, 01:27 AM

Why not just put in in your secondary? That's where I have mine.

ChildofHate · 01-05-2007, 02:51 AM

whytakemine wrote:

Why not just put in in your secondary? That's where I have mine.

That's fine but i believe you may not understand either the topic itself or the development of the topic through subsequent replies culminating to the ultimate resolution and unspoken reasoning as to why i have WS in my primary.

Allow me to clarify:

1. I was under the initial assumption that the Wurmslayer did not have a weapon type assigned to it other then piercing. I was wrong. It's considered a spear.
2. Due to my initial misunderstanding of the weapon type of the wurmslayer, i wondered why i was unable to use the Poison Combine atk.
3. Clarification of the weapon type solved why i was unable to use the PC ability... PC can only be used when a dagger is in the primary slot and since WS is considered a spear, i couldn't use PC.
4. Depending on the weapon setup i am using, WS has a higher crit potential due to the damage range and one can take better advantage of this if WS is primary, not secondary...

Hope that helps suppliment your observation whytakemine. :smileywink:

Message Edited by ChildofHate on 01-04-2007 01:52 PM

Sotaudi · 01-06-2007, 02:32 AM

ChildofHate wrote:

whytakemine wrote:

Why not just put in in your secondary? That's where I have mine.

That's fine but i believe you may not understand either the topic itself or the development of the topic through subsequent replies culminating to the ultimate resolution and unspoken reasoning as to why i have WS in my primary.

Allow me to clarify:

1. I was under the initial assumption that the Wurmslayer did not have a weapon type assigned to it other then piercing. I was wrong. It's considered a spear.
2. Due to my initial misunderstanding of the weapon type of the wurmslayer, i wondered why i was unable to use the Poison Combine atk.
3. Clarification of the weapon type solved why i was unable to use the PC ability... PC can only be used when a dagger is in the primary slot and since WS is considered a spear, i couldn't use PC.
4. Depending on the weapon setup i am using, WS has a higher crit potential due to the damage range and one can take better advantage of this if WS is primary, not secondary...

Hope that helps suppliment your observation whytakemine. :smileywink:

Message Edited by ChildofHate on 01-04-2007 01:52 PM

Swing of the primary hand matters for triggering certain procs, and some skills (e.g., the ones being discussed) require a specific weapon in primary hand, but it is my understanding that dual wield weapon swings are calculated independently. Therefore, could you clarify how having WS in the primary hand would matter based on weapon setup? I am not sure what your concern is there.

ChildofHate · 01-09-2007, 04:18 AM

Has nothing to do with procs. It has to do with crits. Since the primary weapon swings more times then the offhand, better chance at more / high crits with having the WS in the primary. It has a wider dmg range and theorhetically (according to everything i have read so far on these forums) when a weapon crits, it hits for the max dmg of the weapon... Therefore, having that weapon as your primary instead of your seconday, you will have over all, not only more but also higher crits... depending what you are using.

As for procs, that simply wasn't something i was concerned about with this topic. The main topic was (as i already explained in my secondary post... no idea why there was ever question brought up about primary, secondary, procs, etc to begin with) about how the WS was classified and using it in relation to the different pred aa's.

Hadanelith · 01-16-2007, 08:13 AM

Sotaudi wrote:
Swing of the primary hand matters for triggering certain procs, and some skills (e.g., the ones being discussed) require a specific weapon in primary hand, but it is my understanding that dual wield weapon swings are calculated independently. Therefore, could you clarify how having WS in the primary hand would matter based on weapon setup? I am not sure what your concern is there.

Even if you forget the Critical rates, the best argument for using Wurmy in MH is when fighting Droags or Dragons (Tarinax included!), you can get Scale Rend to proc off CAs. However, if it's one of your two only Fabled weapons, then the critical hit rate's a good enough argument without that point.

-Hadanelith Raswrolski of Kithicor

Graton · 01-18-2007, 03:45 AM

ChildofHate wrote:
Has nothing to do with procs. It has to do with crits. Since the primary weapon swings more times then the offhand, better chance at more / high crits with having the WS in the primary. It has a wider dmg range and theorhetically (according to everything i have read so far on these forums) when a weapon crits, it hits for the max dmg of the weapon... Therefore, having that weapon as your primary instead of your seconday, you will have over all, not only more but also higher crits... depending what you are using.

As for procs, that simply wasn't something i was concerned about with this topic. The main topic was (as i already explained in my secondary post... no idea why there was ever question brought up about primary, secondary, procs, etc to begin with) about how the WS was classified and using it in relation to the different pred aa's.

wurmslayer does not have a higher ratio than other weapons. it's ratio is 3 to 1 . 90 % of weapons have a 3 to 1 ratio. you are gaining no crit advantage having the wurmy in your primary hand. there are several weaopns with ratios well over 3 including the gdoh , dirk of negativity, the vampiric axe, that rapier from MMIS and the weapon from the clockwork menace. there may be others. it's dmg range that affects crits not max dmg. wurmslayer is a decent weapon and nice in kos zones for the proc but there's no reason you need to have it in primary.

01-04-2007, 12:20 AM	#2
Kaiser Sigma Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 361	ChildofHate wrote: The wurmy is obviously not a rapier so it wouldn't work with the wisdom line and it doesn't say that it's a spear in the desc so it shouldn't work with stamina either. Where does that leave us? Actually right above "Dual Wield Piercing" it says clearly: "Spear". Now, whether it works with the STA line or not is beyond me but the weapon is classified as something.

01-05-2007, 01:27 AM	#4
whytakemine Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 170	Why not just put in in your secondary? That's where I have mine. __________________ - Carbajal (car' ba hal), 80 assassin ÂÂChitlin, 80 coercer

01-05-2007, 02:51 AM	#5
ChildofHate Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 298	whytakemine wrote: Why not just put in in your secondary? That's where I have mine. That's fine but i believe you may not understand either the topic itself or the development of the topic through subsequent replies culminating to the ultimate resolution and unspoken reasoning as to why i have WS in my primary. Allow me to clarify: 1. I was under the initial assumption that the Wurmslayer did not have a weapon type assigned to it other then piercing. I was wrong. It's considered a spear. 2. Due to my initial misunderstanding of the weapon type of the wurmslayer, i wondered why i was unable to use the Poison Combine atk. 3. Clarification of the weapon type solved why i was unable to use the PC ability... PC can only be used when a dagger is in the primary slot and since WS is considered a spear, i couldn't use PC. 4. Depending on the weapon setup i am using, WS has a higher crit potential due to the damage range and one can take better advantage of this if WS is primary, not secondary... Hope that helps suppliment your observation whytakemine. :smileywink: Message Edited by ChildofHate on 01-04-2007 01:52 PM

01-06-2007, 02:32 AM	#6
Sotaudi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 271	ChildofHate wrote: whytakemine wrote: Why not just put in in your secondary? That's where I have mine. That's fine but i believe you may not understand either the topic itself or the development of the topic through subsequent replies culminating to the ultimate resolution and unspoken reasoning as to why i have WS in my primary. Allow me to clarify: 1. I was under the initial assumption that the Wurmslayer did not have a weapon type assigned to it other then piercing. I was wrong. It's considered a spear. 2. Due to my initial misunderstanding of the weapon type of the wurmslayer, i wondered why i was unable to use the Poison Combine atk. 3. Clarification of the weapon type solved why i was unable to use the PC ability... PC can only be used when a dagger is in the primary slot and since WS is considered a spear, i couldn't use PC. 4. Depending on the weapon setup i am using, WS has a higher crit potential due to the damage range and one can take better advantage of this if WS is primary, not secondary... Hope that helps suppliment your observation whytakemine. :smileywink: Message Edited by ChildofHate on 01-04-2007 01:52 PM Swing of the primary hand matters for triggering certain procs, and some skills (e.g., the ones being discussed) require a specific weapon in primary hand, but it is my understanding that dual wield weapon swings are calculated independently. Therefore, could you clarify how having WS in the primary hand would matter based on weapon setup? I am not sure what your concern is there. __________________ Sotaudi - Wood Elf - Ranger Quaroon - Erudite - Illusionist Siegur - Kerra - Monk Breven - Froglok - Fury Voxin - Ratonga - Assassin

01-16-2007, 08:13 AM	#8
Hadanelith Lord Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 197	Sotaudi wrote: Swing of the primary hand matters for triggering certain procs, and some skills (e.g., the ones being discussed) require a specific weapon in primary hand, but it is my understanding that dual wield weapon swings are calculated independently. Therefore, could you clarify how having WS in the primary hand would matter based on weapon setup? I am not sure what your concern is there. Even if you forget the Critical rates, the best argument for using Wurmy in MH is when fighting Droags or Dragons (Tarinax included!), you can get Scale Rend to proc off CAs. However, if it's one of your two only Fabled weapons, then the critical hit rate's a good enough argument without that point. -Hadanelith Raswrolski of Kithicor

01-03-2007, 11:12 PM	#1
ChildofHate Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 298	I noticed last night that i wasn't able to use Poison Combination when i had my wurmy equipped primary. Now i know that the wurmslayer is not techincally a dagger so i understand that it obviously shouldn't work with PC since it specifically states "must have dagger in primary slot". So how is the DW version of Wurmslayer classified. It does say "piercing" for it's damage type but nothing more then that. My AA focus is STR and INT. I can't use blade opening with wurmy either since it isn't a slashing weapon. Find that to be very restrictive for assassin abilities for those who put the wurmslayer in their primary. Can something be done about this please to accomidate piercers so we can take full advantage of our skills? The wurmy is obviously not a rapier so it wouldn't work with the wisdom line and it doesn't say that it's a spear in the desc so it shouldn't work with stamina either. Where does that leave us? Thanks.

01-04-2007, 01:26 AM	#3
ChildofHate Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 298	[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]! you're right... rofl, good grief... no idea how i missed that. Well, guessing then it would probably work with the Stamina line. oh well for me! :smileyvery-happy: /self_bonk

01-09-2007, 04:18 AM	#7
ChildofHate Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 298	Has nothing to do with procs. It has to do with crits. Since the primary weapon swings more times then the offhand, better chance at more / high crits with having the WS in the primary. It has a wider dmg range and theorhetically (according to everything i have read so far on these forums) when a weapon crits, it hits for the max dmg of the weapon... Therefore, having that weapon as your primary instead of your seconday, you will have over all, not only more but also higher crits... depending what you are using. As for procs, that simply wasn't something i was concerned about with this topic. The main topic was (as i already explained in my secondary post... no idea why there was ever question brought up about primary, secondary, procs, etc to begin with) about how the WS was classified and using it in relation to the different pred aa's.

01-18-2007, 03:45 AM	#9
Graton Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 521	ChildofHate wrote: Has nothing to do with procs. It has to do with crits. Since the primary weapon swings more times then the offhand, better chance at more / high crits with having the WS in the primary. It has a wider dmg range and theorhetically (according to everything i have read so far on these forums) when a weapon crits, it hits for the max dmg of the weapon... Therefore, having that weapon as your primary instead of your seconday, you will have over all, not only more but also higher crits... depending what you are using. As for procs, that simply wasn't something i was concerned about with this topic. The main topic was (as i already explained in my secondary post... no idea why there was ever question brought up about primary, secondary, procs, etc to begin with) about how the WS was classified and using it in relation to the different pred aa's. wurmslayer does not have a higher ratio than other weapons. it's ratio is 3 to 1 . 90 % of weapons have a 3 to 1 ratio. you are gaining no crit advantage having the wurmy in your primary hand. there are several weaopns with ratios well over 3 including the gdoh , dirk of negativity, the vampiric axe, that rapier from MMIS and the weapon from the clockwork menace. there may be others. it's dmg range that affects crits not max dmg. wurmslayer is a decent weapon and nice in kos zones for the proc but there's no reason you need to have it in primary. __________________ Graton 70 Assassin / 70 Jeweler Ancient Vengeance Najena