Isn't this fun

snack-machine · 03-03-2006, 11:36 AM

Oh boy, this is so much fun. I just fought a single up blue solo scaleborn stonesetter and he deflected my stealthy fire, I hit him with my triple shot. He then closed to melee range and I started in with my stun and one back attack. We then atrted trading blows until we were both in the yellow at which time he hit me for around 2,050 points of damage in the span of just a few seconds and I was dead before I could even hit the evac button. But of course I saw a wizard (level 65) soloing a level 65 triple up heroic and his health bar never moved. Yep we're just fine the we are. Not broken at all. And yes I been playing a ranger since Nov of '04 and have everything at adept3 or master level.

Mirdo · 03-03-2006, 12:21 PM

I understand the point you are making but we have to be a lot more careful with solo mobs now than before. You didn't specifically mention it in your post but did you have a trap out for him on incoming to allow another 1 or 2 bow shots? Did you switch to defensive if he was hitting hard? When in melee did you drop self haste and Brutal instinct?

You may have done all of those things and if you did and died it looks like bad luck. I'm all Ad 3 spells myself and so far have been able to solo the same mob effectively. In terms of casters I was also having no trouble versus the ^ fairies conning yellow to me (can't remember the name - maybe mystics).

It is much harder than before, but with a little preparation for each fight and a slight readjustment of tactics, we can still solo.

Mirdo

snack-machine · 03-03-2006, 12:38 PM

Well, first off I'd just like to thank you for the kind, informative, respectful reply. Too many times on here you just get something along the lines of "if you don't like it just quit", or guess you just don't know how to play a ranger, hang up your bow". Now that I have that out of the way.....

1.) I was trying to get a mob to spawn for a quest so I was saving my thorny trap for the actual quest encounter as I thought that one would be more difficult. In addition, as we all know, blue solo mobs use to not be an issue for us (or heroic blue mobs for that matter).

2.) I didn't switch to defensive stance as usualy don't unless I'm tanking something for a group. I usually just try to kill before being killed so to speak...but more importantly, as I mentioned he did incredible damage in the span of just a couple of seconds. Honestly, there were probubly 6 or 7 red damage numbers floating above my head all at the same time. I went from almost 1/2 health to dead VERY quickly.

3.) I didn't Brutal Instinct as I had used it on the previous mob and it had not refreashed (I would just hope that I wouldn't have to wait for every CA and/or buff to refreash before each and every fight).

I suppose him hitting me for so much damage in such a short period of time was just bad luck, but having our DPS cut so much really makes this difficult. I certainly think we needed some balancing with the other classes but what was done just seems to be too much (can't use DA while moving, SOA not really doing much any more, etc). Anyway, thanks for the reply, I'm just really frustrated over all of the changes.

This paragraph I would normally save to say horrible things about SOE, but since I didn't get flamed I'm in such a good mood that I'll just skip all of that hate...for now anyway SMILEY

KnightOfTheWo · 03-03-2006, 01:14 PM

Mirdo wrote:
I understand the point you are making but we have to be a lot more careful with solo mobs now than before. You didn't specifically mention it in your post but did you have a trap out for him on incoming to allow another 1 or 2 bow shots? Did you switch to defensive if he was hitting hard? When in melee did you drop self haste and Brutal instinct?
You may have done all of those things and if you did and died it looks like bad luck. I'm all Ad 3 spells myself and so far have been able to solo the same mob effectively. In terms of casters I was also having no trouble versus the ^ fairies conning yellow to me (can't remember the name - maybe mystics).
It is much harder than before, but with a little preparation for each fight and a slight readjustment of tactics, we can still solo.
Mirdo

Taken me a little while, but I have to echo Mirdo. One of my biggest fears/concerns/complaints with the LU #20 proc disaster was that soloing would be impossible. I've found that this isn't the case...it's much more difficult now, but after changing tactics, etc. I'm finding that I can solo reasonably well. I don't bother with ^^^ (we shouldn't be soloing those anyway) and ^ mobs for individual fights are barely doable when I kite the mob and if it's green. Otherwise, regular white con solo mobs can be done...

Tarryn · 03-03-2006, 01:21 PM

Seeing all that damage at once probably means you got hit with a flurry type attack. I've noticed some of the regular KOS mobs have abilities that can hit like five times simultaneously--they get lucky with it and I can lose half my health right there.

roblinb · 03-03-2006, 03:14 PM

Don't worry, it's an issue SOE will get right on :smileytongue:

Mirdo · 03-03-2006, 08:30 PM

Tarryn - agreed on the flurry / multi hit attack. Now I think about it I'm sure these guys have one. That's probablt what did the real damage to the OP - 3 or 4 high damage shots (unlucky) from a flurry.Mirdo.

Sirlutt · 03-03-2006, 08:35 PM

snack-machine wrote:
Oh boy, this is so much fun. I just fought a single up blue solo scaleborn stonesetter and he deflected my stealthy fire, I hit him with my triple shot. He then closed to melee range and I started in with my stun and one back attack. We then atrted trading blows until we were both in the yellow at which time he hit me for around 2,050 points of damage in the span of just a few seconds and I was dead before I could even hit the evac button. But of course I saw a wizard (level 65) soloing a level 65 triple up heroic and his health bar never moved. Yep we're just fine the we are. Not broken at all. And yes I been playing a ranger since Nov of '04 and have everything at adept3 or master level.

those are the same mobs I am having majr hassles with.. maybe these obs have some issues.. but they knock me around something harsh.

Ai064 · 03-03-2006, 09:17 PM

I agree completely. It's sickening to watch the class that screamed ranger nerf the loudest continue solo'ing their 3up heroic yellow mobs. Fortunately I stopped believing in justice and fairness a long time ago. Revenge is another matter. I'm still avidly awaiting the wizard nerf that I hope will someday smack them straight in the face.

Generic123 · 03-03-2006, 09:48 PM

snack-machine wrote:
2.) I didn't switch to defensive stance as usualy don't unless I'm tanking something for a group. I usually just try to kill before being killed so to speak...

Try staying in your defensive stance with a shield unless you are fighting greens or casters. I think you will find it improves your soloing immensely. Going into a defensive stance improves your survivability by a much greater amount then an offensive stance improves your damage output. You kill only a little fster in an offensive stance but you survive a lot longer in a defensive stance.

Quillian Feetfa · 03-03-2006, 10:59 PM

Generic123 wrote:
snack-machine wrote:
2.) I didn't switch to defensive stance as usualy don't unless I'm tanking something for a group. I usually just try to kill before being killed so to speak...
Try staying in your defensive stance with a shield unless you are fighting greens or casters. I think you will find it improves your soloing immensely. Going into a defensive stance improves your survivability by a much greater amount then an offensive stance improves your damage output. You kill only a little fster in an offensive stance but you survive a lot longer in a defensive stance.

What Rangers use shields????????

Generic123 · 03-03-2006, 11:18 PM

Quillian Feetfast wrote:What Rangers use shields????????

Not the good shields obviously, but even a round shield is of more use soloing then the small DPS increase from an off hand weapon.

Jayad · 03-03-2006, 11:53 PM

"barely soloable" is still broken, even if it's not "impossible soloable"

Crychtonn · 03-04-2006, 12:19 AM

Generic123 wrote:
Quillian Feetfast wrote:What Rangers use shields????????
Not the good shields obviously, but even a round shield is of more use soloing then the small DPS increase from an off hand weapon.

Having used a shield for over six months and having done a ton of solo'ing during that time I have to say your wrong. The only reason I used a shield was for the offensive proc it had. In close combat the shield lowered the chance of survival. Yes it did give some extra defense and blocks but the damage you gave up was more then what you got in return.

I did extensive fights with the shield and without. It wasn't hard to learn which was the better way to go and that was without it. If I find a new T7 shield with a good offensive proc I might go back to using one on raids. But until then I'll stick with duel wields. The benefits just don't out weigh what you give up.

Gareorn · 03-04-2006, 12:29 AM

Crychtonn wrote:
Generic123 wrote:
Quillian Feetfast wrote:What Rangers use shields????????
Not the good shields obviously, but even a round shield is of more use soloing then the small DPS increase from an off hand weapon.
Having used a shield for over six months and having done a ton of solo'ing during that time I have to say your wrong. The only reason I used a shield was for the offensive proc it had. In close combat the shield lowered the chance of survival. Yes it did give some extra defense and blocks but the damage you gave up was more then what you got in return.
I did extensive fights with the shield and without. It wasn't hard to learn which was the better way to go and that was without it. If I find a new T7 shield with a good offensive proc I might go back to using one on raids. But until then I'll stick with duel wields. The benefits just don't out weigh what you give up.

This has also been my experience. I'm not big on using sheilds except for a few that give you some good stats and procs that may be useful on raids. The extra defense I get from a sheild has never made up for the lost DPS. But that's just me.

Message Edited by Gareorn on 03-03-200611:33 AM

Generic123 · 03-04-2006, 01:25 AM

Crychtonn wrote:Having used a shield for over six months and having done a ton of solo'ing during that time I have to say your wrong. The only reason I used a shield was for the offensive proc it had. In close combat the shield lowered the chance of survival. Yes it did give some extra defense and blocks but the damage you gave up was more then what you got in return.
I did extensive fights with the shield and without. It wasn't hard to learn which was the better way to go and that was without it. If I find a new T7 shield with a good offensive proc I might go back to using one on raids. But until then I'll stick with duel wields. The benefits just don't out weigh what you give up.

Things are a lot different since LU20.

All a second weapon does is increase your auto attack damage by about 30%. Since auto attack makes up only a relatively small fraction of total damage, I find the DPS benefit of dual wield is in the 5% range, maybe 10% if you are lucky. The benefit of a shield has been in the 10% to 15% range. (5% additional avoidance when you are already in the 50% range decreases incoming damage by ~10%)

All I can suggest is people try some post LU20 solo encounters both ways and find out what works for them. My experience has defiantly been that using a good 1H and a shield takes only slightly longer to kill a solo mob, but leaves me with noticeably more health at the end of the fight. Groups, raids and even soloing in an offensive stance are a different story but as I said above I haven’t found that last one to be a good option unless you are fighting greens.

03-03-2006, 01:14 PM	#4
KnightOfTheWo General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 304	Mirdo wrote: I understand the point you are making but we have to be a lot more careful with solo mobs now than before. You didn't specifically mention it in your post but did you have a trap out for him on incoming to allow another 1 or 2 bow shots? Did you switch to defensive if he was hitting hard? When in melee did you drop self haste and Brutal instinct? You may have done all of those things and if you did and died it looks like bad luck. I'm all Ad 3 spells myself and so far have been able to solo the same mob effectively. In terms of casters I was also having no trouble versus the ^ fairies conning yellow to me (can't remember the name - maybe mystics). It is much harder than before, but with a little preparation for each fight and a slight readjustment of tactics, we can still solo. Mirdo Taken me a little while, but I have to echo Mirdo. One of my biggest fears/concerns/complaints with the LU #20 proc disaster was that soloing would be impossible. I've found that this isn't the case...it's much more difficult now, but after changing tactics, etc. I'm finding that I can solo reasonably well. I don't bother with ^^^ (we shouldn't be soloing those anyway) and ^ mobs for individual fights are barely doable when I kite the mob and if it's green. Otherwise, regular white con solo mobs can be done... __________________

03-03-2006, 01:21 PM	#5
Tarryn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 142	Seeing all that damage at once probably means you got hit with a flurry type attack. I've noticed some of the regular KOS mobs have abilities that can hit like five times simultaneously--they get lucky with it and I can lose half my health right there. __________________

03-03-2006, 08:35 PM	#8
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	snack-machine wrote: Oh boy, this is so much fun. I just fought a single up blue solo scaleborn stonesetter and he deflected my stealthy fire, I hit him with my triple shot. He then closed to melee range and I started in with my stun and one back attack. We then atrted trading blows until we were both in the yellow at which time he hit me for around 2,050 points of damage in the span of just a few seconds and I was dead before I could even hit the evac button. But of course I saw a wizard (level 65) soloing a level 65 triple up heroic and his health bar never moved. Yep we're just fine the we are. Not broken at all. And yes I been playing a ranger since Nov of '04 and have everything at adept3 or master level. those are the same mobs I am having majr hassles with.. maybe these obs have some issues.. but they knock me around something harsh. __________________ I heart DE Broads

03-03-2006, 09:48 PM	#10
Generic123 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 285	snack-machine wrote: 2.) I didn't switch to defensive stance as usualy don't unless I'm tanking something for a group. I usually just try to kill before being killed so to speak... Try staying in your defensive stance with a shield unless you are fighting greens or casters. I think you will find it improves your soloing immensely. Going into a defensive stance improves your survivability by a much greater amount then an offensive stance improves your damage output. You kill only a little fster in an offensive stance but you survive a lot longer in a defensive stance.

03-03-2006, 10:59 PM	#11
Quillian Feetfa Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Elmore, OH Posts: 98	Generic123 wrote: snack-machine wrote: 2.) I didn't switch to defensive stance as usualy don't unless I'm tanking something for a group. I usually just try to kill before being killed so to speak... Try staying in your defensive stance with a shield unless you are fighting greens or casters. I think you will find it improves your soloing immensely. Going into a defensive stance improves your survivability by a much greater amount then an offensive stance improves your damage output. You kill only a little fster in an offensive stance but you survive a lot longer in a defensive stance. What Rangers use shields???????? __________________

03-03-2006, 11:36 AM	#1
snack-machine Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	Oh boy, this is so much fun. I just fought a single up blue solo scaleborn stonesetter and he deflected my stealthy fire, I hit him with my triple shot. He then closed to melee range and I started in with my stun and one back attack. We then atrted trading blows until we were both in the yellow at which time he hit me for around 2,050 points of damage in the span of just a few seconds and I was dead before I could even hit the evac button. But of course I saw a wizard (level 65) soloing a level 65 triple up heroic and his health bar never moved. Yep we're just fine the we are. Not broken at all. And yes I been playing a ranger since Nov of '04 and have everything at adept3 or master level.

03-03-2006, 12:21 PM	#2
Mirdo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 395	I understand the point you are making but we have to be a lot more careful with solo mobs now than before. You didn't specifically mention it in your post but did you have a trap out for him on incoming to allow another 1 or 2 bow shots? Did you switch to defensive if he was hitting hard? When in melee did you drop self haste and Brutal instinct? You may have done all of those things and if you did and died it looks like bad luck. I'm all Ad 3 spells myself and so far have been able to solo the same mob effectively. In terms of casters I was also having no trouble versus the ^ fairies conning yellow to me (can't remember the name - maybe mystics). It is much harder than before, but with a little preparation for each fight and a slight readjustment of tactics, we can still solo. Mirdo

03-03-2006, 12:38 PM	#3
snack-machine Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	Well, first off I'd just like to thank you for the kind, informative, respectful reply. Too many times on here you just get something along the lines of "if you don't like it just quit", or guess you just don't know how to play a ranger, hang up your bow". Now that I have that out of the way..... 1.) I was trying to get a mob to spawn for a quest so I was saving my thorny trap for the actual quest encounter as I thought that one would be more difficult. In addition, as we all know, blue solo mobs use to not be an issue for us (or heroic blue mobs for that matter). 2.) I didn't switch to defensive stance as usualy don't unless I'm tanking something for a group. I usually just try to kill before being killed so to speak...but more importantly, as I mentioned he did incredible damage in the span of just a couple of seconds. Honestly, there were probubly 6 or 7 red damage numbers floating above my head all at the same time. I went from almost 1/2 health to dead VERY quickly. 3.) I didn't Brutal Instinct as I had used it on the previous mob and it had not refreashed (I would just hope that I wouldn't have to wait for every CA and/or buff to refreash before each and every fight). I suppose him hitting me for so much damage in such a short period of time was just bad luck, but having our DPS cut so much really makes this difficult. I certainly think we needed some balancing with the other classes but what was done just seems to be too much (can't use DA while moving, SOA not really doing much any more, etc). Anyway, thanks for the reply, I'm just really frustrated over all of the changes. This paragraph I would normally save to say horrible things about SOE, but since I didn't get flamed I'm in such a good mood that I'll just skip all of that hate...for now anyway

03-03-2006, 03:14 PM	#6
roblinb Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 126	Don't worry, it's an issue SOE will get right on :smileytongue:

03-03-2006, 08:30 PM	#7
Mirdo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 395	Tarryn - agreed on the flurry / multi hit attack. Now I think about it I'm sure these guys have one. That's probablt what did the real damage to the OP - 3 or 4 high damage shots (unlucky) from a flurry.Mirdo.

03-03-2006, 09:17 PM	#9
Ai064 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 46	I agree completely. It's sickening to watch the class that screamed ranger nerf the loudest continue solo'ing their 3up heroic yellow mobs. Fortunately I stopped believing in justice and fairness a long time ago. Revenge is another matter. I'm still avidly awaiting the wizard nerf that I hope will someday smack them straight in the face.

03-03-2006, 11:18 PM	#12
Generic123 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 285	Quillian Feetfast wrote:What Rangers use shields???????? Not the good shields obviously, but even a round shield is of more use soloing then the small DPS increase from an off hand weapon.

03-03-2006, 11:53 PM	#13
Jayad Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Raelyn @ Permafrost Posts: 1,306	"barely soloable" is still broken, even if it's not "impossible soloable"

03-04-2006, 12:19 AM	#14
Crychtonn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 684	Generic123 wrote: Quillian Feetfast wrote:What Rangers use shields???????? Not the good shields obviously, but even a round shield is of more use soloing then the small DPS increase from an off hand weapon. Having used a shield for over six months and having done a ton of solo'ing during that time I have to say your wrong. The only reason I used a shield was for the offensive proc it had. In close combat the shield lowered the chance of survival. Yes it did give some extra defense and blocks but the damage you gave up was more then what you got in return. I did extensive fights with the shield and without. It wasn't hard to learn which was the better way to go and that was without it. If I find a new T7 shield with a good offensive proc I might go back to using one on raids. But until then I'll stick with duel wields. The benefits just don't out weigh what you give up.

03-04-2006, 12:29 AM	#15
Gareorn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,144	Crychtonn wrote: Generic123 wrote: Quillian Feetfast wrote:What Rangers use shields???????? Not the good shields obviously, but even a round shield is of more use soloing then the small DPS increase from an off hand weapon. Having used a shield for over six months and having done a ton of solo'ing during that time I have to say your wrong. The only reason I used a shield was for the offensive proc it had. In close combat the shield lowered the chance of survival. Yes it did give some extra defense and blocks but the damage you gave up was more then what you got in return. I did extensive fights with the shield and without. It wasn't hard to learn which was the better way to go and that was without it. If I find a new T7 shield with a good offensive proc I might go back to using one on raids. But until then I'll stick with duel wields. The benefits just don't out weigh what you give up. This has also been my experience. I'm not big on using sheilds except for a few that give you some good stats and procs that may be useful on raids. The extra defense I get from a sheild has never made up for the lost DPS. But that's just me. Message Edited by Gareorn on 03-03-200611:33 AM __________________ Leader of the vast right-wing conspiricy... Hiding from the world's smartest woman in a bunker under a Hooter's restaurant.

03-04-2006, 01:25 AM	#16
Generic123 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 285	Crychtonn wrote:Having used a shield for over six months and having done a ton of solo'ing during that time I have to say your wrong. The only reason I used a shield was for the offensive proc it had. In close combat the shield lowered the chance of survival. Yes it did give some extra defense and blocks but the damage you gave up was more then what you got in return. I did extensive fights with the shield and without. It wasn't hard to learn which was the better way to go and that was without it. If I find a new T7 shield with a good offensive proc I might go back to using one on raids. But until then I'll stick with duel wields. The benefits just don't out weigh what you give up. Things are a lot different since LU20. All a second weapon does is increase your auto attack damage by about 30%. Since auto attack makes up only a relatively small fraction of total damage, I find the DPS benefit of dual wield is in the 5% range, maybe 10% if you are lucky. The benefit of a shield has been in the 10% to 15% range. (5% additional avoidance when you are already in the 50% range decreases incoming damage by ~10%) All I can suggest is people try some post LU20 solo encounters both ways and find out what works for them. My experience has defiantly been that using a good 1H and a shield takes only slightly longer to kill a solo mob, but leaves me with noticeably more health at the end of the fight. Groups, raids and even soloing in an offensive stance are a different story but as I said above I haven’t found that last one to be a good option unless you are fighting greens.