INT and Casting Skill Debuffs

SageGaspar · 04-03-2006, 11:58 PM

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find any information on it.I was just wondering if anyone had a sense for exactly how much our INT debuff and caster stat debuffs do. I was just wondering because we encounter some mobs with really big magic damage and I've never managed to get a sense, even with parsing, of how effective our magic debuffs are. I know what Disruption and Ordination and such do on a player, but I'm not exactly sure what debuffing 42 disruption on a raid mob actually does, or 109 INT, etc.

Keldo · 04-04-2006, 12:32 AM

Well int effects damage, and casting skills effect the 'to hit' roll much like melee skills effect the 'to hit' roll. I assume this also includes spell based AEs (IE, lower casting skill would mean higher chance to resist the AE, and lower int would mean less damage), but I haven't really looked at the data. I'm going to be using lung puncture and gaudy strike either way even if they do nothing, just in case they do!I wouldn't use the int/casting skills poison debuff tho, for example, without some research. Something tells me the difference is probably marginal at best.

SageGaspar · 04-04-2006, 12:40 AM

Keldoth wrote:I wouldn't use the int/casting skills poison debuff tho, for example, without some research. Something tells me the difference is probably marginal at best.

Yeah, that's more what I'm wondering about. I'm looking at what spells I can upgrade and Gaudy Strike is pretty much the last debuff, but I have no idea how much 140 INT or whatever takes off the top of a raid mob's damage. I've heard that STA can make a really noticeable difference in HP, so I think maybe the stats have more meaning for raid mobs, but I'm not sure by how much exactly. It's tough to tell with the wide variance on a lot of the spells.Either way, if you have five poison scouts on a raid, can't hurt to have all of the purple ones and Turgur up, hehe.

canis1 · 04-04-2006, 01:28 AM

The casting skill debuffs are very usefull if you are debuffing a skill that the mob actualy is using. You will see yourself resist significantly more of a caster mobs attacks. Like all of you I havent actualy seen any parse'es of what an INT debuff does to a mob, But I hear that in PVP you will see a significant reduction in another players damage.Now for a rant about STA debuffs and long fights....The reason STA debuffs are noticeable in raid fights is the size of the mobs HP pool. The mob has the same STATS as any mob of its level, its just the CA's are scaled to do more damage and the HP pool is so large. So while debuffing 109 on a normal mob you will see a small change, debuff the same on a mob with 1,000,000 HP's and the % that it takes off is enormous. The HP pool is so large on mobs because mobs dont mitigate damage.On a player when you take damage it first checks to see if the mob even hits you (block check, parry check, dodge check, etc..), then if it does hit it checks how much damage the attack was for, then it checks the players mitigation and reduces that percent of the damage off the attack, and whatever is left over comes off your HP. Thats a simplified version, but esentialy what happens when a player takes damage.When a player attacks a mob first it checks avoidance the same way (what is your attack rating Vs. the mobs block/parry/dodge, etc...). If you hit it checks to see how much damage the attack was for and poof, the damage comes straight off the mobs HP. There are some exceptions to this, for example with the recent change to immune mobs where they are no longer immune to damage, they now take a straight % off certain damage types, but this isn't calculated in the same way as mitigation.The point here is that if you debuff STA, it takes a certain amount of HP right off the mob. So if the mob had 1,000,000 HP, and you debuff the mobs STA by 20, the mob may now only have 800,000 HP. That math isnt exact but you get the idea.BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!Debuffing STA makes a mob heal itself. Not a lot, but some. A while back the devs changed the way STA debuffs worked. They were FUBARED for about 2 weeks. at that time if you took 200k HP (IE, my example above) off the mob with a debuff, when that debuff wore off, the mob got that HP straight back. Messed up when in the middle of a fight the mob got a free 200,000 heal.Now, it works SLIGHTLY differently. Now if you Debuff the mob from 1,000,000 HP to 800,000 HP with a 1 minute debuff (you wont see the health bar move as the mob is still at 100% of its new MAX HP), then your raid damages but doesnt kill the mob before the buff wears off, heres what happens... Say you debuff, then damage it to around 20% of its health (this is 20% of 800,000 HP, or 160,000 HP) then the debuff wears off, the mob STAYS AT 20% Health! or 200,000 Hp of its un-debuffed 1,000,000HP. thats a free 40k heal for the mob. You never see the health bar move, but thats what happens. This is an extreme example, but gives you an idea.This whole scenario doesnt play out on anything but the toughest mobs because noraml mobs you will kill before the STA debuff wears off.And, some argue that since its all % based it works out in the end, you would have to do less damage overall to get the mob to 20% of 800k than you would to 20% of 1mil. Not a math major, dont have the exact numbers, but this was a big controversy when the change was made; and it never hurts to be aware of how the game mechanics work.

Message Edited by canis187 on 04-03-200605:37 PM

04-04-2006, 12:32 AM	#2
Keldo General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 528	Well int effects damage, and casting skills effect the 'to hit' roll much like melee skills effect the 'to hit' roll. I assume this also includes spell based AEs (IE, lower casting skill would mean higher chance to resist the AE, and lower int would mean less damage), but I haven't really looked at the data. I'm going to be using lung puncture and gaudy strike either way even if they do nothing, just in case they do!I wouldn't use the int/casting skills poison debuff tho, for example, without some research. Something tells me the difference is probably marginal at best. __________________ Katsuki [70 Swashbuckler] Katsu2 [70 Brigand] Blackburrow.Bane

04-04-2006, 01:28 AM	#4
canis1 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	The casting skill debuffs are very usefull if you are debuffing a skill that the mob actualy is using. You will see yourself resist significantly more of a caster mobs attacks. Like all of you I havent actualy seen any parse'es of what an INT debuff does to a mob, But I hear that in PVP you will see a significant reduction in another players damage.Now for a rant about STA debuffs and long fights....The reason STA debuffs are noticeable in raid fights is the size of the mobs HP pool. The mob has the same STATS as any mob of its level, its just the CA's are scaled to do more damage and the HP pool is so large. So while debuffing 109 on a normal mob you will see a small change, debuff the same on a mob with 1,000,000 HP's and the % that it takes off is enormous. The HP pool is so large on mobs because mobs dont mitigate damage.On a player when you take damage it first checks to see if the mob even hits you (block check, parry check, dodge check, etc..), then if it does hit it checks how much damage the attack was for, then it checks the players mitigation and reduces that percent of the damage off the attack, and whatever is left over comes off your HP. Thats a simplified version, but esentialy what happens when a player takes damage.When a player attacks a mob first it checks avoidance the same way (what is your attack rating Vs. the mobs block/parry/dodge, etc...). If you hit it checks to see how much damage the attack was for and poof, the damage comes straight off the mobs HP. There are some exceptions to this, for example with the recent change to immune mobs where they are no longer immune to damage, they now take a straight % off certain damage types, but this isn't calculated in the same way as mitigation.The point here is that if you debuff STA, it takes a certain amount of HP right off the mob. So if the mob had 1,000,000 HP, and you debuff the mobs STA by 20, the mob may now only have 800,000 HP. That math isnt exact but you get the idea.BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!Debuffing STA makes a mob heal itself. Not a lot, but some. A while back the devs changed the way STA debuffs worked. They were FUBARED for about 2 weeks. at that time if you took 200k HP (IE, my example above) off the mob with a debuff, when that debuff wore off, the mob got that HP straight back. Messed up when in the middle of a fight the mob got a free 200,000 heal.Now, it works SLIGHTLY differently. Now if you Debuff the mob from 1,000,000 HP to 800,000 HP with a 1 minute debuff (you wont see the health bar move as the mob is still at 100% of its new MAX HP), then your raid damages but doesnt kill the mob before the buff wears off, heres what happens... Say you debuff, then damage it to around 20% of its health (this is 20% of 800,000 HP, or 160,000 HP) then the debuff wears off, the mob STAYS AT 20% Health! or 200,000 Hp of its un-debuffed 1,000,000HP. thats a free 40k heal for the mob. You never see the health bar move, but thats what happens. This is an extreme example, but gives you an idea.This whole scenario doesnt play out on anything but the toughest mobs because noraml mobs you will kill before the STA debuff wears off.And, some argue that since its all % based it works out in the end, you would have to do less damage overall to get the mob to 20% of 800k than you would to 20% of 1mil. Not a math major, dont have the exact numbers, but this was a big controversy when the change was made; and it never hurts to be aware of how the game mechanics work. Message Edited by canis187 on 04-03-200605:37 PM __________________

04-03-2006, 11:58 PM	#1
SageGaspar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 964	Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find any information on it.I was just wondering if anyone had a sense for exactly how much our INT debuff and caster stat debuffs do. I was just wondering because we encounter some mobs with really big magic damage and I've never managed to get a sense, even with parsing, of how effective our magic debuffs are. I know what Disruption and Ordination and such do on a player, but I'm not exactly sure what debuffing 42 disruption on a raid mob actually does, or 109 INT, etc.

04-04-2006, 12:40 AM	#3
SageGaspar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 964	Keldoth wrote:I wouldn't use the int/casting skills poison debuff tho, for example, without some research. Something tells me the difference is probably marginal at best. Yeah, that's more what I'm wondering about. I'm looking at what spells I can upgrade and Gaudy Strike is pretty much the last debuff, but I have no idea how much 140 INT or whatever takes off the top of a raid mob's damage. I've heard that STA can make a really noticeable difference in HP, so I think maybe the stats have more meaning for raid mobs, but I'm not sure by how much exactly. It's tough to tell with the wide variance on a lot of the spells.Either way, if you have five poison scouts on a raid, can't hurt to have all of the purple ones and Turgur up, hehe.