Grisly Mark wis debuff?

[MrGrimm9]

I was sorta wondering...  if mobs no longer mitigate damage from spells.  What does debuffing thier wis do?  It could possibly raise the chance for you to do max damage with your spells?  Or more than likely it does nothing with respect to your damage output.  If they are a priest mob I assume it would lower their power.  Any thoughts?

[Xalmat]

It decreases their base resists. Though mobs no longer mitigate damage, they still have resist values that still factor into your resist rate. Also, when a mob's resists go below zero (possible with the pet resist debuff procs, chaos hex doll, and both at once!) you gain an additional damage bonus.But really, the WIS debuff is mostly just decreasing the mob's resist rate.

[Rhannnn]

I'm probably wrong but whenever I debuff the mob is 'seems' it gets 'healed' (no numbers floating). A part if the damage I did is gone than. I'm I the only one noticing this ?

[El Chupacabr]

The mob lost stamina so its maximum health pool went down, seeming to heal.  It didn't really get healed, the bar is just shorter so current hp's reletive to maximum goes up.

[KBern]

Yeah lets say the max HPs of the mob is 100, and they have 80 HPs. 

 

You will see 4/5 bubbles filled with their health.

 

If you debuff that same mob to have only 80 HPs max, it would look like they gained that 5th bub of health and are now at full health again and healed a bubble but really nothing happened but the max allowable HP's changed.

[Named]

Debuffing their wisdom by 58 ( ad3 ) would lower their resist to all spell damage by about 174. Negative 60 resist lowers the mobs mitigation vs spells by about 1%, aka increasing your damage by 1%. So our mark spell increases our damage by about 3%. It also increases our resist vs all spell damage by ~174 and increases our hps by about the same.

[MrGrimm9]

Yea I know how wis and sta affects players,  I was mainly wondering if wis either A lowered resists chances on mobs, or B lowered their actual mitigation increasing our damage.  Rizaz and Xalmat seem to be in disagreement, which is right?  Does it lower the chance for the mob to resist your spell, or does it actually lower thier mitigation, increasing our own damage?

[Xalmat]

Both. However, in order for you to get a boost in damage, you need to drive a mob's resists below zero. Even though mobs do not mitigate damage, they still have a numerical value for their resists that determines resist percentage. Once that number goes below zero, then you get a damage bonus.

[MrGrimm9]

So it is highly doubtful that by this spell alone, their resists go into the negative and add damage to our spells.

[KBern]

That sounds about right.  I doubt this will put them in the negative.

[Named]

If it doesn't put the mob in the negative, it still lowers their resists. Even going from 500 resist to 350 resist will still increase your  damage.

Message Edited by Named88 on 11-18-2005 09:07 AM

[MrGrimm9]

How can that be?  If a mob has a base resist of 500 to everything and this brings it to 350, mobs don't mitigate damage anymore.  The only thing I can think of is that they mitigate 0 damage based on if they have 500 to all resists... so if you bring their resist to 350 with this spell, then they essentially have -150 resistance because it is based on how much resist they started with.  So basically their base resist is a line for where they mitigate 0 damage.  I am not really sure exactly but there is one way to test it.  Find a couple of mobs and get max int and then cast this spell and just keep casting siphon life and see if it ever hits for more than the max damage.  (which I will do and report back)

[ShadowedFlame]

Reducing the resist from 500 to 350 will increase your damage because....... the mob will resist less. Putting them negative gives you an additional damage bonus.

 

[Eirgo]

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MrGrimm999 wrote:
  Find a couple of mobs and get max int and then cast this spell and just keep casting siphon life and see if it ever hits for more than the max damage.  (which I will do and report back)

---

Id suggest using a spell with a static damage and that is easy to test alot - like lich:smileyhappy:

[Named]

This is what I think: Note the #s are made up to prove my point. I have no idea what the real values are.

 

An even con mob has a base resist of 0.

A yellow con mob has a base resist of 0. But since it is yellow, it outright resists your spells like it has 1000 resist. When you hit, you still do damage like it has 0 resist though.

 

Casting this on a yellow con mob would make you do damage like it had -150 resist, and resists would be based off of 850 resist.

 

 

Casting this debuff will both lower your chance of being resisted, and increase your damage on every hit by ~3%.

[MrGrimm9]

Well yea, actually here is one sure fire way to test that theory as stated above.  Cast lich on a mob before you do the wis debuff and then see how much damage lich does after this debuff.  Lich damage is affected by mitigation because when necromantic insigna lands from your pet, lich does do more damage.  So there is the test.

[Named]

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MrGrimm999 wrote:

Well yea, actually here is one sure fire way to test that theory as stated above.  Cast lich on a mob before you do the wis debuff and then see how much damage lich does after this debuff.  Lich damage is affected by mitigation because when necromantic insigna lands from your pet, lich does do more damage.  So there is the test.

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Just tried this. Lich damage didn't go up. I guess that completely destroys my theory....

 

I tried it on grey, green, and even con mobs.

 

Tried it in a duel, and the lich went from 132 damage to 136 dmg, or ~3%.

 

[edit]

 

Just tried it on a yellow con sha ir, the lich damage stayed the same.

 

 

Maybe mobs don't have wisdom, therefore you can't debuff it? Or maybe their wisdom doesn't effect their resists.

Message Edited by Named88 on 11-18-2005 11:10 AM

[Eirgo]

Looking over my log from Poets Palace a couple nights ago, this is the summary of my lich procs:

Max Hit: 166 damage 2 times

Min hit:155 damage 300 times

Average hit: 156

Total hits:  469

Having 300/469 of my procs being at base damage doesnt surprise me due to the large amount of AE fights involved in PP (the bugs in the ring events, the books for the first mirror quest, the statues for the second mirror quest).  At first I thought he spikes in damage were caused from our sweet noxious and wisdom debuffs....

But thats not the case - over the course of the almost 33 minutes of fighting in PP my pet only proc'd Expose Noxious 22 times!!!!  And get this ...... it was resisted 22 times!!!!! 

On the Aysor the Mighty fight ,I had 8 lich procs for 158 everytime - and the Aysor's Eye fight lich went off 14 times for 158 every time.  So the proc did the exact same damage before I debuffed with Mark and after on these - and my pet only proc'd Expose Noxious one time on Aysor the mighty and it was resisted:smileysad:

So....Im not sure what caused the lich damage spikes - but it appears not to be caused by our debuffs.

BTW - My group consisted of a pally, swashy, Conj, Warden, Templar and me.

[MrGrimm9]

I think Xalmat might be right, it affects how often the mob outright resists your spells.  So the less wisdom they have, the less likely they will be to resist your spells completely.  I have not tested this as it would take countless hours of casting spells on orange con mobs with and without the wis debuff, but that is my guess as to what it actually does to mobs.  In any case, it will increase our wis/sta as a player and we know that is a good thing

[Eirgo]

Ok - if you have any logs close by please do me a favor and open it and do a FIND on Exposed Noxious.

I just did this on a log and got 39 matches over THREE and a HALF HOURS and every time it was RESISTED!!!

This is against mobs conning from grey to high orange, solo to epicx4.

We need this fixed.

[El Chupacabr]

I think it lands, we only seem to get the message that it fails, none for a successful cast (note how many essences of anguish your groupmates have at the end of a night).

[Eirgo]

Ahh ok that makes sense.

[steelblueangel]

Can someone tell me what the essence of anguish are used for? The spell Grisly Mark creates them when an npc dies. But I dont know what to use the essence for. Thanks in advance for answering my question.

 

 

[Xalmat]

They don't have a use until you get the spell Revivication at level 48.