Yet another LU24 post

Manyak · 06-11-2006, 02:03 PM

Well i finally spent a good amount of time on the test server last night (and i mean a GOOD amount of time). And, well, these changes got me really worried. Yall have seen all the spell changes already, but what most of u prolly havent seen is the actual change in gameplay for us, so i figured id let yall know what was coming.

You like to solo? Well forget it now. Between both me and my pet, i was completely unable to get a root to stick on any mob. I mean, i cant say i didnt see a nerf coming to this eventually, but now its just as if u were solo rooting urself. If we cant have the uber root, we could at leasat use a huge decrease on the rescast of the root so that we have something to fall back on. Or a huge decrease in the recast of the pet root. Or even both =) But we all know that without a really good rooting system we are virtually unable to solo. And this was the big killer here. Although i do gotta say, having devitalizing gazes actually regen more mana than it spends is really nice soloing, it helps alot with power.

Also, the mezzes, with their hugely nerfed durations, really REALLY need a lower mana cost. Although im still having trouble deciding if im having more trouble with, that or just the nerfed duration. That also goes for all stuns and stifles btw. We can still perma-stun/stifle mobs but it needs a different pattern than we use now (new pattern is forsake will-dazzling array-drain thought-solar shower), and it needs alot more mana to be done. Plus, while doing it, we wont have dazzling array as a safety net anymore, since it has to be used as part of the pattern and its recast is way too long.

As far as grouping goes, in the old zones, its not much different than before. Just sit there and DPS. If u get an add, just stun/stifle the one ur DPSing instead of mezzing the add, and thats the end of it. In the new zones though (namely forsaken city), the mobs are so cramped together that ur gonna be mezzing alot. And the big problem there is, well, the nerfed mezzes. Even if ur devoting ur whole attention to CC and not DPS, sometimes ur BARELY gonna be able to handle rooms here. And if u can handle the rooms, even if u got uber gear and capped FT ur still gonna have problems with mana when doing it.

IA, btw, is complete crap, even against green heroics. The pets summoned are triple down arrow, which get 1-shotted. U know how at raids its pretty much a guaranteed death for u? Well thats how it is in groups now. Consider this completely off my hotbar, im not rdy to pay 6g per memwipe when in groups. I didnt get to test it in raids, but i dont think theres even a chance of the pets lasting through the whole 15 seconds. If the pet HP is reduced, i say reduce the duration on it too, let the memwipe come earlier. This way we might actually have a chance to survive it.

Now, as far as synergism goes, let me just say that even the deaggro part is pretty useless too. Going by the values on test (379-463dmg and 634-755 hate reduc at master 2), that comes out to a real overall deaggro of 171-376, since each point of damage is one point of hate. Now, with the absurdly low proc rate on spell procs, for wizzies (who proc it the most btw) this will give them, on average, a total deaggro of 2188 over a 60 second fight. That comes out to a potential 36 DPS extra before pulling aggro. Also, since the hate decrease doesnt go up with INT but the damage does, at capped int (which this betabuffed toon doesnt have) this number will be even less. And after raid debuffs, its even less than that. Now, as we all know, the only way a wizzie is pulling aggro is with a premature Ice Nova / Fusion, and even if they do that after 60 seconds, this extra deaggro isnt going to help them much. If they drop one of those bombs, chances are that if they were gonna steal aggro without the proc theyd still do it anyway (i had a wizzie in group try DPSing with and without it, and even he said he couldnt really notice a difference). So although this may seem nice on the outside, its really not that great when it comes down to it. Either way, on raids, my prediction (which i cant test until its live) is that the damage done per proc is going to equal the hate reduced. So basically, itll just be a proc with no hate. What this needs is either an increase in proc rate, HUGE hate decrease, or even an added "Decreases threat priority by 1 position" to be made worthit as both damage and deaggro.

This new AE mezz is crap too. Such a big nerf, its unbeleivable. It kills soloing AND grouping so much that it hurts. If its gonna keep the whole prevent AE thing, it at least needs to become a PBAE. But having an encounter mezz that doesnt let u HOLD an encounter mezzed is just rediculous. The biggest problem with it is that if u have an encounter add, AND another mob or 2 add, then ur not gonna be able to lock down much. Sure u can get the encoutner, then use the other 2 mezzes on the other 2 adds, but ur not gonna be able to lock it all down without anything breaking.

Solo wise, were worse off now than we were pre-DoF and LU13. So much time is needed CCing that u cant really DPS, and between 2 roots it still breaks way too quick. The only difference now, is that mana draining isnt really much of an option.

Group wise, were also worse off than back then. At least back then we gave enough mana to kill non-stop, and we could perma-stifle any mob with only 2 clicks of a mana drain.

Raid wise, well, since i still need to actually TRY a raid like this, i cant say much. I dont think its gonna be a big change at all. Prolly for the worse since were losing the epic pet root, but dont expect much anyway.

trenor · 06-11-2006, 07:38 PM

Yep, manyak how true. I am just aboput beside myself after the proc changes that basically took away 33% of our damage. Then the control changes that pretty much take away 33% of our control ( of course this is only test). What they did to illusory allies (used to be my favorite spell) is sad heres a swarm pet of ours that did basically no damage just bought us some time and now it doesn't even buy time anymore. Ah well, I guess we just wait and see.

Fiz

Mobindi · 06-11-2006, 09:44 PM

Pity to hear all that dude.But let's do what we do best, wait. Let the majority test it out on live toons, then see the feedback.

Belizarius · 06-12-2006, 05:34 AM

It's the mez changes that have me worried more than anything.

Yes they designed a game where mez is usually not needed. As a result, Enchanters are one of the less popular classes to play.

But, about the only time my character is really really FUN to play, the only time I get to do the stuff I chose the class to be able to do, is when my group gets adds and I get to lock them down and prevent a wipe. It's about the only thing that keeps me playing the class.

Without that, casting a few buffs, and doing the mediocre DPS we now do since the proc nerf, makes a pretty dull game.

I could live with the DPS nerf if they left my CC alone, and frankly I'd prefer that to the other way round.

Losing both is just a bit too much.

06-11-2006, 02:03 PM	#1
Manyak Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 822	Well i finally spent a good amount of time on the test server last night (and i mean a GOOD amount of time). And, well, these changes got me really worried. Yall have seen all the spell changes already, but what most of u prolly havent seen is the actual change in gameplay for us, so i figured id let yall know what was coming. You like to solo? Well forget it now. Between both me and my pet, i was completely unable to get a root to stick on any mob. I mean, i cant say i didnt see a nerf coming to this eventually, but now its just as if u were solo rooting urself. If we cant have the uber root, we could at leasat use a huge decrease on the rescast of the root so that we have something to fall back on. Or a huge decrease in the recast of the pet root. Or even both =) But we all know that without a really good rooting system we are virtually unable to solo. And this was the big killer here. Although i do gotta say, having devitalizing gazes actually regen more mana than it spends is really nice soloing, it helps alot with power. Also, the mezzes, with their hugely nerfed durations, really REALLY need a lower mana cost. Although im still having trouble deciding if im having more trouble with, that or just the nerfed duration. That also goes for all stuns and stifles btw. We can still perma-stun/stifle mobs but it needs a different pattern than we use now (new pattern is forsake will-dazzling array-drain thought-solar shower), and it needs alot more mana to be done. Plus, while doing it, we wont have dazzling array as a safety net anymore, since it has to be used as part of the pattern and its recast is way too long. As far as grouping goes, in the old zones, its not much different than before. Just sit there and DPS. If u get an add, just stun/stifle the one ur DPSing instead of mezzing the add, and thats the end of it. In the new zones though (namely forsaken city), the mobs are so cramped together that ur gonna be mezzing alot. And the big problem there is, well, the nerfed mezzes. Even if ur devoting ur whole attention to CC and not DPS, sometimes ur BARELY gonna be able to handle rooms here. And if u can handle the rooms, even if u got uber gear and capped FT ur still gonna have problems with mana when doing it. IA, btw, is complete crap, even against green heroics. The pets summoned are triple down arrow, which get 1-shotted. U know how at raids its pretty much a guaranteed death for u? Well thats how it is in groups now. Consider this completely off my hotbar, im not rdy to pay 6g per memwipe when in groups. I didnt get to test it in raids, but i dont think theres even a chance of the pets lasting through the whole 15 seconds. If the pet HP is reduced, i say reduce the duration on it too, let the memwipe come earlier. This way we might actually have a chance to survive it. Now, as far as synergism goes, let me just say that even the deaggro part is pretty useless too. Going by the values on test (379-463dmg and 634-755 hate reduc at master 2), that comes out to a real overall deaggro of 171-376, since each point of damage is one point of hate. Now, with the absurdly low proc rate on spell procs, for wizzies (who proc it the most btw) this will give them, on average, a total deaggro of 2188 over a 60 second fight. That comes out to a potential 36 DPS extra before pulling aggro. Also, since the hate decrease doesnt go up with INT but the damage does, at capped int (which this betabuffed toon doesnt have) this number will be even less. And after raid debuffs, its even less than that. Now, as we all know, the only way a wizzie is pulling aggro is with a premature Ice Nova / Fusion, and even if they do that after 60 seconds, this extra deaggro isnt going to help them much. If they drop one of those bombs, chances are that if they were gonna steal aggro without the proc theyd still do it anyway (i had a wizzie in group try DPSing with and without it, and even he said he couldnt really notice a difference). So although this may seem nice on the outside, its really not that great when it comes down to it. Either way, on raids, my prediction (which i cant test until its live) is that the damage done per proc is going to equal the hate reduced. So basically, itll just be a proc with no hate. What this needs is either an increase in proc rate, HUGE hate decrease, or even an added "Decreases threat priority by 1 position" to be made worthit as both damage and deaggro. This new AE mezz is crap too. Such a big nerf, its unbeleivable. It kills soloing AND grouping so much that it hurts. If its gonna keep the whole prevent AE thing, it at least needs to become a PBAE. But having an encounter mezz that doesnt let u HOLD an encounter mezzed is just rediculous. The biggest problem with it is that if u have an encounter add, AND another mob or 2 add, then ur not gonna be able to lock down much. Sure u can get the encoutner, then use the other 2 mezzes on the other 2 adds, but ur not gonna be able to lock it all down without anything breaking. Solo wise, were worse off now than we were pre-DoF and LU13. So much time is needed CCing that u cant really DPS, and between 2 roots it still breaks way too quick. The only difference now, is that mana draining isnt really much of an option. Group wise, were also worse off than back then. At least back then we gave enough mana to kill non-stop, and we could perma-stifle any mob with only 2 clicks of a mana drain. Raid wise, well, since i still need to actually TRY a raid like this, i cant say much. I dont think its gonna be a big change at all. Prolly for the worse since were losing the epic pet root, but dont expect much anyway. __________________

06-11-2006, 09:44 PM	#3
Mobindi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	Pity to hear all that dude.But let's do what we do best, wait. Let the majority test it out on live toons, then see the feedback. __________________

06-11-2006, 07:38 PM	#2
trenor Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 199	Yep, manyak how true. I am just aboput beside myself after the proc changes that basically took away 33% of our damage. Then the control changes that pretty much take away 33% of our control ( of course this is only test). What they did to illusory allies (used to be my favorite spell) is sad heres a swarm pet of ours that did basically no damage just bought us some time and now it doesn't even buy time anymore. Ah well, I guess we just wait and see. Fiz

06-12-2006, 05:34 AM	#4
Belizarius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 407	It's the mez changes that have me worried more than anything. Yes they designed a game where mez is usually not needed. As a result, Enchanters are one of the less popular classes to play. But, about the only time my character is really really FUN to play, the only time I get to do the stuff *I chose the class to be able to do*, is when my group gets adds and I get to lock them down and prevent a wipe. It's about the only thing that keeps me playing the class. Without that, casting a few buffs, and doing the mediocre DPS we now do since the proc nerf, makes a pretty dull game. I could live with the DPS nerf if they left my CC alone, and frankly I'd prefer that to the other way round. Losing both is just a bit too much.