Should Conjurers bother with HOs?

Magele · 11-12-2005, 03:26 PM

I have a newish Conjurer I'm trying to get the hang of. I have several questions. I can easily solo vvv named heroics 4 levels under me. ( sure I may die a few times...but dieing is very easy).

Since the revamp...has the Conjurer pet's hitpoints been reduced as well as the effectiveness of our heal?

When I solo nameds the only method that seems to work is to dot...autoattack and chain heal pet.

What happened to our HOs? Now that many (All?) of our single target nukes are on the same timer...I'm more than a little confused. I always seem to have an excess in power (I may have a tidy amount for my level but still).

Any thoughts? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Xalmat · 11-12-2005, 06:47 PM

I can easily solo vvv named heroics 4 levels under me.

The odds of finding a triple-down arrow named heroic is slim to none. However, soloing a triple-up named 4 levels below you would depend on your current level. High 50s, where the blue/green/grey range is 10 levels? Likely not. Low teens, where the blue/green/grey range is much smaller? Good chance. The closer it is to Grey-con, the easier a time you will have.

Since the revamp...has the Conjurer pet's hitpoints been reduced as well as the effectiveness of our heal?

Pet hit points have not been reduced as far as I can tell. They took a pretty big mitigation hit, and a big regeneration hit (due to changing our pet stances around), but they still seem to have the same amount of hit points as before (maybe more!). The pet heals definitely took a huge hit, but a good Conjuror won't depend on his heals, and instead will invest most of his energy supporting his pet by doing damage and by crippling the mob.

What happened to our HOs? Now that many (All?) of our single target nukes are on the same timer...I'm more than a little confused.

Our HOs are largely unchanged from before the combat changes. You'll notice we have three solo heroic opportunities: Lightning-Lightning (single target), Lightning-Star (area damage), Lightning-Fireball (buff). Personally I don't use my direct damage spells much anymore, since (in the 50s at least) the vast majority of my damage is via my DoTs. However, HOs are excellent when you want to use your Mastery strikes (such as Orc Mastery Strike)!

Magele · 11-12-2005, 11:50 PM

Thanks for you hasty replie mate!

My Conjurer is level 25 so I think i meant 3 up arrows?

At this low level I guess I just may not have enough nukes to make HOs as effective as before? I have a lightning DD...I have the Rock Blast DD and I have the green group lightning. I have two dots now. I read that Seism will also now trigger HOs...though this spell will most often be used in groups and would only cause turmoil in the zones I solo. I also only have two Master spells...Orc, Gnoll and Skeleton....the Skelly being the one I still use more often than not.

Its a shame the pet's defense and our heals were so badly nerfed. Although I'm happy that our wiz pets now do substantial damage and the tank pet taunts very well....whats the use of him taunting well if he can't even take a small beating?

I assume this isn't a bug...just seems odd to me the only way I can take down a named from 4 levels below me or more...3 up arrows heroic....is to root him kill his friends...send pet...dot...autoattack just for any extra dps....constantly heal pet while keeping dots on it.

Sometimes...as due to the roll of the dice...the pet will be almost reduced to orange health...so that I must root the named...pull back the pet and heal/regen him before sending him back in. An odd tactic....am I missing something?

Diggen · 11-13-2005, 01:00 AM

Things did change this week, though I don't count on HO's and almost never use them in a group. I have gone from level 24 to 28 this week even struggeling with the update. Here are a few tips that got me through.

Get the best Tellurian Soldier and Provocation spell you can afford. Use Provocation instead of Defensive Brace.

Update your area spells to at least App IV.

Concentrate on groups. When fighting groups don't worry about HO's. Spam your area spells as much as possible.

I took Aquous Stalkers as my Master II choice. There are times when I regreat it, but it really makes a difference with the solo heroics.

At your level, Bimble Cave (sp ?) on the beach along with the groups of gnolls outside and the group of beetles up on the bank make for nice exp and a decently quick level. You don't get much loot though. It is also a good place to preactice your tactics for fighting groups of mobs. Be warned of the bug that makes EQ think that you cannot se the mobs.

Mordith · 11-13-2005, 02:57 AM

The only time I use my HO's is when I can use a master strike and am solo. HO's don't really seem to be very beneficial for conjurors. Are other classes getting many benefits when level 50+?

Beldin_ · 11-13-2005, 10:47 AM

There is really no need to fight Triple-Ups solo, you get faster exp if you solo mobs that are meant to be solo mobs. If you need a named for a quest .. search a party. I leveled to 52 today with 9d 10h played time and nearly only fought "nomal" single-mobs, i really think thats not so bad.

What heroics however you can do fine with 25+ are the gnolls in the crater before Thundermist Village, when they are only groups with tripple downgrade, that is a good spot for your AoEs SMILEY

Magele · 11-13-2005, 12:40 PM

I don't really kill nameds for any of those reasons. I kill them because they're fun to kill...it is challenging and rarely easy. Also I like retrieving some nice loot from their still bleeding corpses...brings with it always a sense of accomplishment (and yellow coins are very pretty).

I only mentioned that I killed nameds to demonstrate that I'm not a complete [Removed for Content] and can play my class...I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong in groups which was making me less effective in those situations.

Trying to be the best finger wiggler I can be :smileyhappy:

Torrene · 11-14-2005, 03:02 PM

fought a few Heroic 18th lv caltorsis 3^ mobs on this week end with my 22nd lvl conjuror, and I used this tactic stolen from some posts on this forum: - send tank pet - dot - nuke as hell (HO included) - no heals on the pet - when pet is about to die root - finger crossed that root is not resisted SMILEY

- dismiss and conjure new pet - goto 1 it worked! SMILEY

Camureo

DragonMaster2385 · 11-15-2005, 01:47 AM

this tactic works all they way up through the game. At level 55, you get a slow for 75%, so if the root resists, you can still run a good distance and recast.

GSOO · 11-15-2005, 10:38 PM

I use the HO'S all the time.....But the key is to make sure if you fighting more then one mob target and have the pet give them each a whack....then i do HO's and when i get AOE HO's it beats on the group hard. Only problem I have soloing is figuring out what level heroics I can do...at 29 I can do 25 ^^ or 24^^^ currently. The arena medium difficulty champion comes in orange and resist most of what I throw at him, but I have a plan SMILEY

.....I am a sneaky lil gnome and might be able to tinker a foozlibit fizgig that will cause him go go running to momma dawgie. If successful I will post it.

Magele · 11-16-2005, 02:22 AM

I solo in dungeon crawls...so it appears my inability to use HOs effectively is a result from my not being able to use any AOEs.

11-12-2005, 03:26 PM	#1
Magele General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 39	I have a newish Conjurer I'm trying to get the hang of. I have several questions. I can easily solo vvv named heroics 4 levels under me. ( sure I may die a few times...but dieing is very easy). Since the revamp...has the Conjurer pet's hitpoints been reduced as well as the effectiveness of our heal? When I solo nameds the only method that seems to work is to dot...autoattack and chain heal pet. What happened to our HOs? Now that many (All?) of our single target nukes are on the same timer...I'm more than a little confused. I always seem to have an excess in power (I may have a tidy amount for my level but still). Any thoughts? Any help will be greatly appreciated. __________________ __________________________________________________ __________ I hate signatures. I have like 60 other posts to read and have no interest in indulging people by reading their petty philosophies or inane quotes.

11-12-2005, 06:47 PM	#2
Xalmat EQ2Achieve.com Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 5,895	I can easily solo vvv named heroics 4 levels under me. The odds of finding a triple-down arrow named heroic is slim to none. However, soloing a triple-up named 4 levels below you would depend on your current level. High 50s, where the blue/green/grey range is 10 levels? Likely not. Low teens, where the blue/green/grey range is much smaller? Good chance. The closer it is to Grey-con, the easier a time you will have. Since the revamp...has the Conjurer pet's hitpoints been reduced as well as the effectiveness of our heal? Pet hit points have not been reduced as far as I can tell. They took a pretty big mitigation hit, and a big regeneration hit (due to changing our pet stances around), but they still seem to have the same amount of hit points as before (maybe more!). The pet heals definitely took a huge hit, but a good Conjuror won't depend on his heals, and instead will invest most of his energy supporting his pet by doing damage and by crippling the mob. What happened to our HOs? Now that many (All?) of our single target nukes are on the same timer...I'm more than a little confused. Our HOs are largely unchanged from before the combat changes. You'll notice we have three solo heroic opportunities: Lightning-Lightning (single target), Lightning-Star (area damage), Lightning-Fireball (buff). Personally I don't use my direct damage spells much anymore, since (in the 50s at least) the vast majority of my damage is via my DoTs. However, HOs are excellent when you want to use your Mastery strikes (such as Orc Mastery Strike)! __________________ EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

11-12-2005, 11:50 PM	#3
Magele General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 39	Thanks for you hasty replie mate! My Conjurer is level 25 so I think i meant 3 up arrows? At this low level I guess I just may not have enough nukes to make HOs as effective as before? I have a lightning DD...I have the Rock Blast DD and I have the green group lightning. I have two dots now. I read that Seism will also now trigger HOs...though this spell will most often be used in groups and would only cause turmoil in the zones I solo. I also only have two Master spells...Orc, Gnoll and Skeleton....the Skelly being the one I still use more often than not. Its a shame the pet's defense and our heals were so badly nerfed. Although I'm happy that our wiz pets now do substantial damage and the tank pet taunts very well....whats the use of him taunting well if he can't even take a small beating? I assume this isn't a bug...just seems odd to me the only way I can take down a named from 4 levels below me or more...3 up arrows heroic....is to root him kill his friends...send pet...dot...autoattack just for any extra dps....constantly heal pet while keeping dots on it. Sometimes...as due to the roll of the dice...the pet will be almost reduced to orange health...so that I must root the named...pull back the pet and heal/regen him before sending him back in. An odd tactic....am I missing something? __________________ __________________________________________________ __________ I hate signatures. I have like 60 other posts to read and have no interest in indulging people by reading their petty philosophies or inane quotes.

11-13-2005, 10:47 AM	#6
Beldin_ Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,343	There is really no need to fight Triple-Ups solo, you get faster exp if you solo mobs that are meant to be solo mobs. If you need a named for a quest .. search a party. I leveled to 52 today with 9d 10h played time and nearly only fought "nomal" single-mobs, i really think thats not so bad. What heroics however you can do fine with 25+ are the gnolls in the crater before Thundermist Village, when they are only groups with tripple downgrade, that is a good spot for your AoEs __________________

11-13-2005, 12:40 PM	#7
Magele General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 39	I don't really kill nameds for any of those reasons. I kill them because they're fun to kill...it is challenging and rarely easy. Also I like retrieving some nice loot from their still bleeding corpses...brings with it always a sense of accomplishment (and yellow coins are very pretty). I only mentioned that I killed nameds to demonstrate that I'm not a complete [Removed for Content] and can play my class...I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong in groups which was making me less effective in those situations. Trying to be the best finger wiggler I can be :smileyhappy: __________________ __________________________________________________ __________ I hate signatures. I have like 60 other posts to read and have no interest in indulging people by reading their petty philosophies or inane quotes.

11-13-2005, 01:00 AM	#4
Diggen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Things did change this week, though I don't count on HO's and almost never use them in a group. I have gone from level 24 to 28 this week even struggeling with the update. Here are a few tips that got me through. Get the best Tellurian Soldier and Provocation spell you can afford. Use Provocation instead of Defensive Brace. Update your area spells to at least App IV. Concentrate on groups. When fighting groups don't worry about HO's. Spam your area spells as much as possible. I took Aquous Stalkers as my Master II choice. There are times when I regreat it, but it really makes a difference with the solo heroics. At your level, Bimble Cave (sp ?) on the beach along with the groups of gnolls outside and the group of beetles up on the bank make for nice exp and a decently quick level. You don't get much loot though. It is also a good place to preactice your tactics for fighting groups of mobs. Be warned of the bug that makes EQ think that you cannot se the mobs.

11-13-2005, 02:57 AM	#5
Mordith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 334	The only time I use my HO's is when I can use a master strike and am solo. HO's don't really seem to be very beneficial for conjurors. Are other classes getting many benefits when level 50+?

11-14-2005, 03:02 PM	#8
Torrene Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 13	fought a few Heroic 18th lv caltorsis 3^ mobs on this week end with my 22nd lvl conjuror, and I used this tactic stolen from some posts on this forum: - send tank pet - dot - nuke as hell (HO included) - no heals on the pet - when pet is about to die root - finger crossed that root is not resisted - dismiss and conjure new pet - goto 1 it worked! Camureo

11-15-2005, 01:47 AM	#9
DragonMaster2385 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,063	this tactic works all they way up through the game. At level 55, you get a slow for 75%, so if the root resists, you can still run a good distance and recast.

11-15-2005, 10:38 PM	#10
GSOO Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 148	I use the HO'S all the time.....But the key is to make sure if you fighting more then one mob target and have the pet give them each a whack....then i do HO's and when i get AOE HO's it beats on the group hard. Only problem I have soloing is figuring out what level heroics I can do...at 29 I can do 25 ^^ or 24^^^ currently. The arena medium difficulty champion comes in orange and resist most of what I throw at him, but I have a plan.....I am a sneaky lil gnome and might be able to tinker a foozlibit fizgig that will cause him go go running to momma dawgie. If successful I will post it. __________________ "Markie blew her cork and summonded up an air elemental, just like you learn to do at Elemental School," Massha said grimly (Robert Asprin, Little Myth Marker) GSOConvert: 58 Templar/48 Sage (Qeynos) GSOPiemuncher: 30 Monk/48 Alchemist (Qeynos) GSOSuntsu: 17 Knight/ 45 Tailor (Qeynos) GSOGnomercy: 54 Conjuror/48 Woodworker (Qeynos) GSOWidget: 9 Fighter/ 38 Culinary Artist (Qeynos)

11-16-2005, 02:22 AM	#11
Magele General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 39	I solo in dungeon crawls...so it appears my inability to use HOs effectively is a result from my not being able to use any AOEs. __________________ __________________________________________________ __________ I hate signatures. I have like 60 other posts to read and have no interest in indulging people by reading their petty philosophies or inane quotes.