Paladin armor set

equinoxio · 11-16-2006, 08:13 AM

Anyone have any info on the new armor set, like who drops the pieces or in what zones can you find expecific parts.

Also really interested on the stats that the new armos has

Alir · 11-16-2006, 09:45 AM

Cant stay in the game long enough to find out!!!!!

Crushbone Locked FTW!

OrcSlayer96 · 11-16-2006, 09:48 AM

Crushbone FTL,

I truely hope it puts me back in kelethin instead of the city of nizari like the character select says... SMILEY

Odinwray Treewalker · 11-21-2006, 09:32 PM

i have a peice called Kyle's dogmatic boots, that drops out of the obliesk off the end mob. it is plate set armor for paladin/sk with 28sta/agi (i believe) and like 7-1k in nox resists or something along those lines, i forget what having set gives. but the obliesk of blight does drop set items we can use hehe. also, if you are looking for a new earing the end mob in the acadechism drops a really nice earing with +32 to str and between 10 and 12 to sta agi wis + 2 deflection if you are a brawler. looks really nice alongside my dragonscale earing

Seomon · 11-21-2006, 11:14 PM

The boots are from the end mob in Obelisk. Bracers are from the end mob in Crypt. Shoulders are off a named in the room w/ the stairs in the Mistmoore Catacombs. I haven't seen the shoulders, so not sure on the stats, and you've seen the bracers and boots from me SMILEY

Edit: The shoulders are TRADEABLE so check the broker often.

Message Edited by Seomon on 11-21-2006 07:15 AM

Wulfborne · 11-22-2006, 01:11 AM

Seomon wrote:

The boots are from the end mob in Obelisk. Bracers are from the end mob in Crypt. Shoulders are off a named in the room w/ the stairs in the Mistmoore Catacombs. I haven't seen the shoulders, so not sure on the stats, and you've seen the bracers and boots from me

Edit: The shoulders are TRADEABLE so check the broker often.

Message Edited by Seomon on 11-21-2006 07:15 AM

I can confirm the above. I have the shoulders, and have seen the boots drop (though every time I go in there, I get warrior/scout boots). I think I logged with them on my toon last night, so if you look up Hawke on Everfrost under player searches on the eq2players site, it should have the stats.

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

Seomon · 11-22-2006, 01:32 AM

Wulfborne wrote:

Seomon wrote:

The boots are from the end mob in Obelisk. Bracers are from the end mob in Crypt. Shoulders are off a named in the room w/ the stairs in the Mistmoore Catacombs. I haven't seen the shoulders, so not sure on the stats, and you've seen the bracers and boots from me

Edit: The shoulders are TRADEABLE so check the broker often.

Message Edited by Seomon on 11-21-2006 07:15 AM

I can confirm the above. I have the shoulders, and have seen the boots drop (though every time I go in there, I get warrior/scout boots). I think I logged with them on my toon last night, so if you look up Hawke on Everfrost under player searches on the eq2players site, it should have the stats.

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

Just looked those up... nice for offtanking! +STR and +INT FTW.

Kaleyen · 11-22-2006, 01:58 AM

But how do they look is the important question!

Wulfborne · 11-22-2006, 02:51 AM

From what I recall, they were sort of like the dragonscale ones, but silvery grey instead of the green hue. Kinda like they were going for the 'knight in shining armor' look, but they didn't appear quite as shiny as that mirrored faction armor set you can get from the faction merchant.

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

Kaleyen · 11-22-2006, 05:41 AM

Bought the arms today, now I would just like the helm and the forearms. And yeah, greyish non-shiny color.

Caetrel · 11-22-2006, 06:26 PM

Named level 75 Sage drops the pants in MM.

Rast · 11-22-2006, 07:26 PM

Anyone got any screenies of this? I need something to dream about obtaining some year into the future SMILEY

Kaleyen · 11-22-2006, 07:33 PM

This pic was for something else, but you can get the overall idea of what it looks like..

Caetrel · 11-22-2006, 08:17 PM

OMG...it looks like....armor!! I love the graphics on this stuff, hope the fabled set looks as cool.

Wulfborne · 11-22-2006, 08:41 PM

Does anyone know which items are tradeable and which are no-drop? Arms - tradeable. Boots - no drop.

I'm trying to plan on where I need to farm to get my full set.

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

Rast · 11-22-2006, 10:54 PM

thanks SMILEY

And the most important part? It isn't banana yellow!!!!!!

Zo · 11-22-2006, 11:02 PM

Bracers are No-Trade from Count Valdoon.

Seomon · 11-22-2006, 11:07 PM

Wulfborne wrote:

Does anyone know which items are tradeable and which are no-drop? Arms - tradeable. Boots - no drop.

I'm trying to plan on where I need to farm to get my full set.

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

Anything in an instance will be No-Trade. Anything in an open zone will be Tradeable.

Wulfborne · 11-23-2006, 01:21 AM

OK, then. SMILEY Which items are in open zones and which are from instances? There are 7 items total.

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

Seomon · 11-23-2006, 03:10 AM

Wulfborne wrote:

OK, then. Which items are in open zones and which are from instances? There are 7 items total.

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

I only know of 4.

Shoulders (Tradeable) - Dropped off named in Mistmoore Catacombs
Boots (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Obelisk
Bracers (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Crypt
Pants (Tradeable) - Dropped off named lvl 75 Sage in Mistmoore Castle (From Catreal in this thread)

Wulfborne · 11-23-2006, 04:12 AM

Seomon wrote:
I only know of 4.

Shoulders (Tradeable) - Dropped off named in Mistmoore Catacombs
Boots (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Obelisk
Bracers (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Crypt
Pants (Tradeable) - Dropped off named lvl 75 Sage in Mistmoore Castle (From Catreal in this thread)

I don't remember the name of the guy in catacombs that dropped the shoulders, but he was lvl 70^^^, and wandered up and down the spiral staircase that leads up to the castle's back entrance.

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

TheManInTheBox · 11-24-2006, 06:49 AM

Kaleyen · 11-24-2006, 08:25 AM

Now where do those drop?

Daydeee · 11-25-2006, 08:32 AM

Would say more than likely in Freethinkers since CM has borked scaling loot table issues and the other EoF thingy is rediculous until you have fully equiped and 100aa'd, dev certified and if memory serves guild killed the 1st named farting WW for cleric boots so I would say him in freethinkers holds booties, so likely 1 in 24 shot
tho I imagine any epic x4 in eof will have a particular piece, or combined pieces...
The New Tunaria x2 ring event 3 named... had 0 loot...

At best you're looking at 1 in 24 per epic name... at worst I imagine 1 in 144

Also had mage legendary set gloves off the Rat King in Kaladim, if I were you, i'd look there for gloves, would really like to know stats, would be nice alternative to firebrand....

AND
Fingers again!!

Message Edited by Daydeee on 11-24-2006 07:44 PM

Majorminor · 11-25-2006, 12:10 PM

Seomon wrote:

Wulfborne wrote:

OK, then. Which items are in open zones and which are from instances? There are 7 items total.

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

I only know of 4.

Shoulders (Tradeable) - Dropped off named in Mistmoore Catacombs
Boots (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Obelisk
Bracers (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Crypt
Pants (Tradeable) - Dropped off named lvl 75 Sage in Mistmoore Castle (From Catreal in this thread)

Was in MM Cat's last night. Killing some named around the 2 climb points to the hallway area's and a green epic x2 aggroed us, for the life of me I can't remeber the name. Took him down with our group and he droped the Shoulders as well. Of course I lost to the SK in the group /sigh.

Edited, he droped the Legendary SK/Pally version, not the Fabled version.

Message Edited by Majorminor on 11-24-2006 11:11 PM

Wulfborne · 11-25-2006, 12:26 PM

Majorminor wrote:

Seomon wrote:

Wulfborne wrote:

OK, then. Which items are in open zones and which are from instances? There are 7 items total.

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

I only know of 4.

Shoulders (Tradeable) - Dropped off named in Mistmoore CatacombsBoots (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in ObeliskBracers (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in CryptPants (Tradeable) - Dropped off named lvl 75 Sage in Mistmoore Castle (From Catreal in this thread)

Was in MM Cat's last night. Killing some named around the 2 climb points to the hallway area's and a green epic x2 aggroed us, for the life of me I can't remeber the name. Took him down with our group and he droped the Shoulders as well. Of course I lost to the SK in the group /sigh.

Edited, he droped the Legendary SK/Pally version, not the Fabled version.
Message Edited by Majorminor on 11-24-2006 11:11 PM

You talking about Veingore? I've had my group take him out a couple times.. he never dropped any arms tho. Odd.~Hawke

equinoxio · 11-25-2006, 02:33 PM

Daydeee wrote:

Would say more than likely in Freethinkers since CM has borked scaling loot table issues and the other EoF thingy is rediculous until you have fully equiped and 100aa'd, dev certified and if memory serves guild killed the 1st named farting WW for cleric boots so I would say him in freethinkers holds booties, so likely 1 in 24 shot
tho I imagine any epic x4 in eof will have a particular piece, or combined pieces...
The New Tunaria x2 ring event 3 named... had 0 loot...

At best you're looking at 1 in 24 per epic name... at worst I imagine 1 in 144

Also had mage legendary set gloves off the Rat King in Kaladim, if I were you, i'd look there for gloves, would really like to know stats, would be nice alternative to firebrand....

AND
Fingers again!!

Message Edited by Daydeee on 11-24-2006 07:44 PM

where exactly is the rat king?

Majorminor · 11-25-2006, 08:22 PM

Wulfborne wrote:

You talking about Veingore? I've had my group take him out a couple times.. he never dropped any arms tho. Odd.

~Hawke

Yes, that's the name, He dropped the Legendary SK/Pally Shoulders, A 2hand Slash,got server Disco on "Bone Eatter" and a Warlock Master I think, We did get pretty lucky on that drop hehe.

Anavron Ta · 11-26-2006, 04:59 AM

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO do any of you have any idea where the missing pieces are at?

Message Edited by Anavron Tain on 11-26-2006 12:14 AM

Anavron Ta · 11-28-2006, 12:05 AM

So nobody's found any of the pieces that are missing yet?

11-16-2006, 09:45 AM	#2
Alir Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 68	Cant stay in the game long enough to find out!!!!! Crushbone Locked FTW! __________________

11-21-2006, 11:14 PM	#5
Seomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	The boots are from the end mob in Obelisk. Bracers are from the end mob in Crypt. Shoulders are off a named in the room w/ the stairs in the Mistmoore Catacombs. I haven't seen the shoulders, so not sure on the stats, and you've seen the bracers and boots from me Edit: The shoulders are TRADEABLE so check the broker often. Message Edited by Seomon on 11-21-2006 07:15 AM __________________

11-22-2006, 01:11 AM	#6
Wulfborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 596	Seomon wrote: The boots are from the end mob in Obelisk. Bracers are from the end mob in Crypt. Shoulders are off a named in the room w/ the stairs in the Mistmoore Catacombs. I haven't seen the shoulders, so not sure on the stats, and you've seen the bracers and boots from me Edit: The shoulders are TRADEABLE so check the broker often. Message Edited by Seomon on 11-21-2006 07:15 AM I can confirm the above. I have the shoulders, and have seen the boots drop (though every time I go in there, I get warrior/scout boots). I think I logged with them on my toon last night, so if you look up Hawke on Everfrost under player searches on the eq2players site, it should have the stats. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul __________________

11-22-2006, 01:32 AM	#7
Seomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	Wulfborne wrote: Seomon wrote: The boots are from the end mob in Obelisk. Bracers are from the end mob in Crypt. Shoulders are off a named in the room w/ the stairs in the Mistmoore Catacombs. I haven't seen the shoulders, so not sure on the stats, and you've seen the bracers and boots from me Edit: The shoulders are TRADEABLE so check the broker often. Message Edited by Seomon on 11-21-2006 07:15 AM I can confirm the above. I have the shoulders, and have seen the boots drop (though every time I go in there, I get warrior/scout boots). I think I logged with them on my toon last night, so if you look up Hawke on Everfrost under player searches on the eq2players site, it should have the stats. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul Just looked those up... nice for offtanking! +STR and +INT FTW. __________________

11-22-2006, 01:58 AM	#8
Kaleyen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: kk thx la~ Posts: 1,341	But how do they look is the important question! __________________ Blaye \| 80 Guardian \| Leader of Anomaly

11-16-2006, 08:13 AM	#1
equinoxio Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 118	Anyone have any info on the new armor set, like who drops the pieces or in what zones can you find expecific parts. Also really interested on the stats that the new armos has

11-16-2006, 09:48 AM	#3
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	Crushbone FTL, I truely hope it puts me back in kelethin instead of the city of nizari like the character select says...

11-21-2006, 09:32 PM	#4
Odinwray Treewalker Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	i have a peice called Kyle's dogmatic boots, that drops out of the obliesk off the end mob. it is plate set armor for paladin/sk with 28sta/agi (i believe) and like 7-1k in nox resists or something along those lines, i forget what having set gives. but the obliesk of blight does drop set items we can use hehe. also, if you are looking for a new earing the end mob in the acadechism drops a really nice earing with +32 to str and between 10 and 12 to sta agi wis + 2 deflection if you are a brawler. looks really nice alongside my dragonscale earing

11-22-2006, 02:51 AM	#9
Wulfborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 596	From what I recall, they were sort of like the dragonscale ones, but silvery grey instead of the green hue. Kinda like they were going for the 'knight in shining armor' look, but they didn't appear quite as shiny as that mirrored faction armor set you can get from the faction merchant. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul __________________

11-22-2006, 05:41 AM	#10
Kaleyen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: kk thx la~ Posts: 1,341	Bought the arms today, now I would just like the helm and the forearms. And yeah, greyish non-shiny color. __________________ Blaye \| 80 Guardian \| Leader of Anomaly

11-22-2006, 06:26 PM	#11
Caetrel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 427	Named level 75 Sage drops the pants in MM. __________________ Fidelus Raid Leader Survivors Guk

11-22-2006, 07:26 PM	#12
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	Anyone got any screenies of this? I need something to dream about obtaining some year into the future __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

11-22-2006, 07:33 PM	#13
Kaleyen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: kk thx la~ Posts: 1,341	This pic was for something else, but you can get the overall idea of what it looks like.. __________________ Blaye \| 80 Guardian \| Leader of Anomaly

11-22-2006, 08:17 PM	#14
Caetrel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 427	OMG...it looks like....armor!! I love the graphics on this stuff, hope the fabled set looks as cool. __________________ Fidelus Raid Leader Survivors Guk

11-22-2006, 08:41 PM	#15
Wulfborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 596	Does anyone know which items are tradeable and which are no-drop? Arms - tradeable. Boots - no drop. I'm trying to plan on where I need to farm to get my full set. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul __________________

11-22-2006, 10:54 PM	#16
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	thanks And the most important part? It isn't banana yellow!!!!!! __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

11-22-2006, 11:02 PM	#17
Zo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 93	Bracers are No-Trade from Count Valdoon. __________________ Hayle - Guardian - Radiant Legion - Nagafen ZoSo - Paladin - Radiant Legion - Nagafen

11-22-2006, 11:07 PM	#18
Seomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	Wulfborne wrote: Does anyone know which items are tradeable and which are no-drop? Arms - tradeable. Boots - no drop. I'm trying to plan on where I need to farm to get my full set. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul Anything in an instance will be No-Trade. Anything in an open zone will be Tradeable. __________________

11-23-2006, 01:21 AM	#19
Wulfborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 596	OK, then. Which items are in open zones and which are from instances? There are 7 items total. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul __________________

11-23-2006, 03:10 AM	#20
Seomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	Wulfborne wrote: OK, then. Which items are in open zones and which are from instances? There are 7 items total. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul I only know of 4. Shoulders (Tradeable) - Dropped off named in Mistmoore Catacombs Boots (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Obelisk Bracers (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Crypt Pants (Tradeable) - Dropped off named lvl 75 Sage in Mistmoore Castle (From Catreal in this thread) __________________

11-23-2006, 04:12 AM	#21
Wulfborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 596	Seomon wrote: I only know of 4. Shoulders (Tradeable) - Dropped off named in Mistmoore Catacombs Boots (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Obelisk Bracers (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Crypt Pants (Tradeable) - Dropped off named lvl 75 Sage in Mistmoore Castle (From Catreal in this thread) I don't remember the name of the guy in catacombs that dropped the shoulders, but he was lvl 70^^^, and wandered up and down the spiral staircase that leads up to the castle's back entrance. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul __________________

11-24-2006, 06:49 AM	#22
TheManInTheBox Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 156	__________________

11-24-2006, 08:25 AM	#23
Kaleyen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: kk thx la~ Posts: 1,341	Now where do those drop? __________________ Blaye \| 80 Guardian \| Leader of Anomaly

11-25-2006, 08:32 AM	#24
Daydeee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 76	Would say more than likely in Freethinkers since CM has borked scaling loot table issues and the other EoF thingy is rediculous until you have fully equiped and 100aa'd, dev certified and if memory serves guild killed the 1st named farting WW for cleric boots so I would say him in freethinkers holds booties, so likely 1 in 24 shot tho I imagine any epic x4 in eof will have a particular piece, or combined pieces... The New Tunaria x2 ring event 3 named... had 0 loot... At best you're looking at 1 in 24 per epic name... at worst I imagine 1 in 144 Also had mage legendary set gloves off the Rat King in Kaladim, if I were you, i'd look there for gloves, would really like to know stats, would be nice alternative to firebrand.... AND Fingers again!! Message Edited by Daydeee on 11-24-2006 07:44 PM __________________ "Never judge a person till you have walked a mile in their Jboots"

11-25-2006, 12:10 PM	#25
Majorminor Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 372	Seomon wrote: Wulfborne wrote: OK, then. Which items are in open zones and which are from instances? There are 7 items total. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul I only know of 4. Shoulders (Tradeable) - Dropped off named in Mistmoore Catacombs Boots (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Obelisk Bracers (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in Crypt Pants (Tradeable) - Dropped off named lvl 75 Sage in Mistmoore Castle (From Catreal in this thread) Was in MM Cat's last night. Killing some named around the 2 climb points to the hallway area's and a green epic x2 aggroed us, for the life of me I can't remeber the name. Took him down with our group and he droped the Shoulders as well. Of course I lost to the SK in the group /sigh. Edited, he droped the Legendary SK/Pally version, not the Fabled version. Message Edited by Majorminor on 11-24-2006 11:11 PM __________________

11-25-2006, 12:26 PM	#26
Wulfborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 596	Majorminor wrote: Seomon wrote: Wulfborne wrote: OK, then. Which items are in open zones and which are from instances? There are 7 items total. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul I only know of 4. Shoulders (Tradeable) - Dropped off named in Mistmoore CatacombsBoots (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in ObeliskBracers (No-Trade) - Dropped off final mob in CryptPants (Tradeable) - Dropped off named lvl 75 Sage in Mistmoore Castle (From Catreal in this thread) Was in MM Cat's last night. Killing some named around the 2 climb points to the hallway area's and a green epic x2 aggroed us, for the life of me I can't remeber the name. Took him down with our group and he droped the Shoulders as well. Of course I lost to the SK in the group /sigh. Edited, he droped the Legendary SK/Pally version, not the Fabled version. Message Edited by Majorminor on 11-24-2006 11:11 PM You talking about Veingore? I've had my group take him out a couple times.. he never dropped any arms tho. Odd.~Hawke __________________

11-25-2006, 02:33 PM	#27
equinoxio Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 118	Daydeee wrote: Would say more than likely in Freethinkers since CM has borked scaling loot table issues and the other EoF thingy is rediculous until you have fully equiped and 100aa'd, dev certified and if memory serves guild killed the 1st named farting WW for cleric boots so I would say him in freethinkers holds booties, so likely 1 in 24 shot tho I imagine any epic x4 in eof will have a particular piece, or combined pieces... The New Tunaria x2 ring event 3 named... had 0 loot... At best you're looking at 1 in 24 per epic name... at worst I imagine 1 in 144 Also had mage legendary set gloves off the Rat King in Kaladim, if I were you, i'd look there for gloves, would really like to know stats, would be nice alternative to firebrand.... AND Fingers again!! Message Edited by Daydeee on 11-24-2006 07:44 PM where exactly is the rat king?

11-25-2006, 08:22 PM	#28
Majorminor Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 372	Wulfborne wrote: You talking about Veingore? I've had my group take him out a couple times.. he never dropped any arms tho. Odd. ~Hawke Yes, that's the name, He dropped the Legendary SK/Pally Shoulders, A 2hand Slash,got server Disco on "Bone Eatter" and a Warlock Master I think, We did get pretty lucky on that drop hehe. __________________

11-26-2006, 04:59 AM	#29
Anavron Ta General Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 17	SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO do any of you have any idea where the missing pieces are at? Message Edited by Anavron Tain on 11-26-2006 12:14 AM __________________

11-28-2006, 12:05 AM	#30
Anavron Ta General Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 17	So nobody's found any of the pieces that are missing yet? __________________