Everybody discusses PAL EOF AA together 0.0

[Sen]

What is the best line AA for prue tanking pally or another pally ?

Paladin's EOF Achievements have 4 main line & 4 specially skillHealing Line  ~ A / E / F / J / R ~ 5 item ,  V ( requires 20 point in healing Line )

Support Line ~ B / G / K / N / O / S ~ 6 item , W ( requires 20 point in support Line )Wraths Line  ~ C / H / L / P / Q / T ~ 6 item , X ( requires 20 point in wraths Line )Hero Line  ~ D / I / M / U ~ 4 item , Y ( requires 20 point in hero Line )

Message Edited by Senmo on 11-29-2006 10:07 AM

Message Edited by Senmo on 12-06-2006 07:29 PM

Message Edited by Senmo on 12-06-2006 07:35 PM

Message Edited by Senmo on 12-15-2006 12:26 AM

Message Edited by Senmo on 12-24-2006 09:19 PM

[Boethius_Permafrost]

Most of you are interested in the tank/damage path.  The final hero ability is very good, although the line is weak.  You do pick up 200 HP for 5 points, almost the same as the KoS achievements for HP.  This option costs 21 points, and you really don't get a choice on where to put them.  To go with that, you will spend 29 points in AE and proc enhancers.  Five points in the three ae's that don't have a 5 minute recast plus the two proc enhancers, plus doom judgement to unlock a path. 1 point for the final ability, leaving 8 points for the proc enhancers.  I would go 4 each, for balance.However, I am probably going to go for the "I wanna be a priest" and still be able to tank line.  The first 3 healing abilities are too good to pass up, and the final ability in support is a game changer, if you can handle being a truly versatile paladin, that is.  I am considering going for the cure, 15 points of heal, and then branch out to max the HP ability for 11 points.  That leaves three, probably in relentless wrath.  I could just do healing/support and get another heal, but that would be overkill, and not exactly versatile.

[Seomon]

I'm thinking of doing the Hero line, which is 21 points, no options, just because that end skill is a must. After that, I'm thinking 4 in Enhance: Pious Aid (or w/e it's called), 4 in Enhance: Ward, and then 21 in the Damage line for the final ability. I haven't looked at that one yet to decide what I'm going to spend the 20 in.

[CycoDelic]

Meh, its a matter of what I can find works best for my playstyle. I am certain I will test them all in various combinations as I did in KoS to find what I like best. Will most likely start with healing/wraths and ork from there.

[Mgunner]

I will be doing the Wrath line to get the Smite Evil ability. I will then do both the procs enhancers. I plan on skipping Doom Judgment in the wrath line, but I need either that or the group mit ability to get the second proc ability. Because I am boycotting the Doom Judgement AA, I will probably do the group mit. I feel that can be more useful than increasing a dead ability that is useless for five minutes while I wait for the long recast. I will then finish off by putting my remaining 9 points in the 3 "triangle" heal abilities at the top of that tree.

[Rob89]

Im going Wraths and Support.

Want both end skills. And ive faced the truth that most paladins dont wanna admit..

We arent good tanks!! Ive faced that matter and now going other way. Going max INT and STR. Going for dps and grp buffs. Im always in a Mage grp at raids to boost my int and protect the mages with my aggro transfers. I often do 800-1400 dps on raids with a 2hand sword. We can do great dps if you know how, and thats alittle tricky

Atm i got 645 str and 510 int selfbuffed and i like those stats. Got offensive stance at M1.

[hawsecav19d]

I used to think dps was way to go but going to try and build a purposefull guild raid tank. Not MT but OT I think pally will fill this role to a T now. I am going 4/4/48/8 down Str line from KOS for 10% cast recast reduction and hate gain. amd 4/48/5 down Int line for max spell crits and 40% heal crit 1 in starter. Then going down heals with 5pts in A E FJ reduces heals to sec and half and wards to 8sec recast with 1.2sec cast cause if Str line from KoS I think this will help alot cause biggest gripe about heals wards is they take to long to cast. Will also take last ability W for anouther heal. Then 4 in C 3 in H 3 in M 5 in U 5 in Q 5 in T this give me 2 casting AOE extra damage some divine debuff bonus  and hps but tis just to get to enhanced sygil of Heroism Plus and With Str line from KoS a 4 min recast on Concecrate.

 

The nice thing I think these KoS and EoF lines give me is Fast Wards fast heals 11mins for LoH ability good chance to crit heal and dmg crit. OT supposed to pick up adds and peel of secondary targets with our new end heal and LoH on faster retimer, wards we can get up and concecrate and aoe dps to get agro fast as well if MT goes down with Syg of Herois  going  20 sec we should be able to gain agro better than we could before. Any thoughts or suggestions?

[Kaleyen]

For the non-tanking Pally: I know there are other T7 raiding Pallys that are like me, in a guild where our 2 warrior tanks are some of the best geared on the server and know how to play their class and role in a raid situation.  Which means that we'll rarely ever be on the tank list so we need to find other ways to make ourselves useful. Here are my EoF AA's that I'm going to take: Healing Line- Going to put as much points into self & group heal along with the ward as I can, the reduced timer on our rez is just a waste of AA IMO.  The rest of my points will be put into the reduced timer of our LoH until I can get the Arch Heal. Support- Putting a full 5 points into the group pledge reason being is that I'm on a PvP server so 700 mit to the healers/mages/scouts in PvP battle is just pure ownage.  I'll be putting a few other points in procs after I get done with the wrath line. Wrath- I just want the end line for PvP battles, will be spreading the points over the AoEs except for Doom Judgement because the best that spell can get is Adept III. Hero- Useless line for me, won't be spending any points here.

[holypaladin28]

---

Kaleyen wrote:
For the non-tanking Pally:

I know there are other T7 raiding Pallys that are like me, in a guild where our 2 warrior tanks are some of the best geared on the server and know how to play their class and role in a raid situation.  Which means that we'll rarely ever be on the tank list so we need to find other ways to make ourselves useful.

Here are my EoF AA's that I'm going to take:

Healing Line- Going to put as much points into self & group heal along with the ward as I can, the reduced timer on our rez is just a waste of AA IMO.  The rest of my points will be put into the reduced timer of our LoH until I can get the Arch Heal.

Support- Putting a full 5 points into the group pledge reason being is that I'm on a PvP server so 700 mit to the healers/mages/scouts in PvP battle is just pure ownage.  I'll be putting a few other points in procs after I get done with the wrath line.

Wrath- I just want the end line for PvP battles, will be spreading the points over the AoEs except for Doom Judgement because the best that spell can get is Adept III.

Hero- Useless line for me, won't be spending any points here.

---

same here i need 2 more aa for smite evil and at lvl 27 it's already at 700 damage i bet when i hit lvl 32 and up the INT even more im going to break 1k damage per attack.  cant wait a lvl 32 pally running aorund witha  nuke that hits for 1k damage 

dont know about doom judgement dont think ill waste it

but healing yah im going to go all out with the exception of the rez havent looked at the support line most likely not

[Karlen]

For soloing, the reuse reduction on the ward (15 seconds reduced to 10) is excellent, as yellow mobs generally blow through my ward in 11-12 seconds.  A 10-second recast means that in hard battles I can usually replace it before it drops (thus not having the cast interrupted).

[madha]

I was going to do D, I, M myabe H if thats hero line and Z,  And what ever points i have left i want to do the healing tree so i can get W.. I might even respt some of my KOS AA to get healing crit unless W wont crit 10s recast nice heal it is..  The smite evil one looks stupid to me and X holds no intrest to me.  ALL though I do intercede alot so i might put some points in B.  I'm almost to 60 AA and have them all in D, i, and W.  SInce we dont have a mit AA i gues ill need to max my health =P.  I want to double attack with a 2 hander though we need something offensive for our AA .  THese all seem suportive, and i gues thats the way it will stay

[Squelch]

D,H,L,Q,T,Y first. Than I,M,U,Z . Than A,F.

[Wallzak]

Sadly... I'm beginning to see reality as well.  I can group tank very well, I have a templar that always has my back and he knows me and keeps me up.

 

My problem is I'm raiding more... so although ,my heart and desire to spite evil with insane AOE damage says C and D, I"m going A and B.

 

Healing

A - 5

F - 5

J- 3/E2 (not sure about this)

R - 5

1 for the final = 21

 

Support

K - 5

N - 5

S - 5

Split 5 between B (2) and O (3)

1 for the final = 21

 

DPS

 

Split the remain 8, 2 each on L, P, Q and T

 

 

I would love to go Y... I really want to go Y... but if I ever want to go on a raid, I need more utility.  Not to mention the first round of 50 AA's I spent purely on DPS

 

The extra heal, good for raid and for solo/group (last couple of nights I've found myself tanking and healing)

 

The cure... I think this is going to be more invaluable than most think (see brackets comment above)

 

The group mit buff - this really is a new spell hidden in our aa tree.  You can cast it at no cost to you and still throw armament on the MT (can someone confirm this... I did some very prilimary checks on this tonight... seems to work)... this should bare minimum put me in the squishy group on the raid to amend the warlock and grant them some harder skin.  

 

Thats how I see it... keep in mind I've ignored the whole D line (I can't even remember what it's called, that's how much I've ignored it 

 

The good news is I still have the respec... so we'll see down the line how I feel.

[Guiddian]

kos ability str 4,4,5,4,8 int 4,4,8,8

eof ability healing a5 e5 f5 j5 w1 for 21

               wrath c5 g5 l5 p3 o5 t5  y1 for 29

[Artorius_]

 I dont likes pallies AAs actually. The idea was good to rebalance fighters but the fact isnt. Heroic path is weak , it needs a revamp i think. The heal path was the key to balance tanking issues but they did in the wrong way again. The last ability is easy, quit de direct heal and put a HoT or Reactive (Stacking with rest of classes of course) and we could tank similar to rest...

[Geoffrey1206]

My aa

KOS: STA 4 4 5 4

          WIS 4 4 5 2

          INT 4 4 7 2

EOF AA:

        hero line: 21 (D,I,M,U,Y)

        surppot line:21 (B, G, K, O, S,W)

        then A:3 F:3 E:2

 

Critical hit can help me being a good DPS

the other ability can make me be a good tank !!!

[Caetrel]

You will get as much dps from 22% melee crit as you will from 8 points in spell crit.  The only things we have that benefit from spell crit are Consecrate,  Unflinching and Brimstone AOEs, our 2 nukes, and our 2 divine procs.  All the rest of our divine CAs and our melee auto attack benefit from melee crit. If you were to compare the two roughly, you get a 1/4 crit chance for 3/4 of what we dish out (melee), or a 3/4 crit chance for the last 1/4 (spells).  They are roughly the same in adding dps.  Losing crit on Consecrate hurts, the rest is negligible.  But then consecrate is one minute in five. I guess if you wanted all dps the thing to do is 4-6-8 in STR, and 4-4-8  INT and STA, but at that rate I'd reroll a scout.  I am happy to be spec'd for tanking and still have 8 points in melee crit.

[hawsecav19d]

You will get as much dps from 22% melee crit as you will from 8 points in spell crit.  The only things we have that benefit from spell crit are Consecrate,  Unflinching and Brimstone AOEs, our 2 nukes, and our 2 divine procs.  All the rest of our divine CAs and our melee auto attack benefit from melee crit.

If you were to compare the two roughly, you get a 1/4 crit chance for 3/4 of what we dish out (melee), or a 3/4 crit chance for the last 1/4 (spells).  They are roughly the same in adding dps. 

Losing crit on Consecrate hurts, the rest is negligible.  But then consecrate is one minute in five.

I guess if you wanted all dps the thing to do is 4-6-8 in STR, and 4-4-8  INT and STA, but at that rate I'd reroll a scout. 

I am happy to be spec'd for tanking and still have 8 points in melee crit.

Fidelus Highhorse
Paladin and Weaponsmith
Survivors
Guk

 

Not even close. Our biggest hitters are all magic spells, if you check a parser man you will find this out concecrate/refusal of conviction, and my personal procs are always at top of my list percentage wise after a raid. eating out about 45% of my total damage on just them 3 next will be my bare weapon then comes two more spells before my first melee attack ca. Before you go tell people that melee 8pts of melee crits will equal 8pts of spell crits do some research.

[EvilIguana9]

---

hawsecav19d wrote:

You will get as much dps from 22% melee crit as you will from 8 points in spell crit.  The only things we have that benefit from spell crit are Consecrate,  Unflinching and Brimstone AOEs, our 2 nukes, and our 2 divine procs.  All the rest of our divine CAs and our melee auto attack benefit from melee crit.If you were to compare the two roughly, you get a 1/4 crit chance for 3/4 of what we dish out (melee), or a 3/4 crit chance for the last 1/4 (spells).  They are roughly the same in adding dps. Losing crit on Consecrate hurts, the rest is negligible.  But then consecrate is one minute in five.I guess if you wanted all dps the thing to do is 4-6-8 in STR, and 4-4-8  INT and STA, but at that rate I'd reroll a scout. I am happy to be spec'd for tanking and still have 8 points in melee crit.

Fidelus HighhorsePaladin and WeaponsmithSurvivorsGuk

 

Not even close. Our biggest hitters are all magic spells, if you check a parser man you will find this out concecrate/refusal of conviction, and my personal procs are always at top of my list percentage wise after a raid. eating out about 45% of my total damage on just them 3 next will be my bare weapon then comes two more spells before my first melee attack ca. Before you go tell people that melee 8pts of melee crits will equal 8pts of spell crits do some research.

---

I do believe we do more melee/CA damage than spell damage, but not enough that 23% crit would be a bigger dps boost for most people than 65% or whatever it is for the spell crit chance.  My specific situation, however, may be unusual.  I happen to have a fabled 2 handed hammer from the MOA raid with a VERY large damage range.  I have 25% melee crit now, 8 pts in sta 3, 2 % from MOA and 1% base.  My hammer hits from like 200-950 on a regular hit, but melee crits are always at least max damage +1.  Thus I am getting a much bigger benefit from melee crit than a lot of other folks would.  Now the downside to melee crits is that CAs crits for whatever reason are a straight 30% extra damage while spells stick to the (max+1) to (max +30%) formula.  But seeing as the damage range on CAs and spells isn't huge that is not a major issue.  Still be nice if they'd fix it though....  But anyway, I could probably still get slightly better dps from the int line, but I'm not sure I want to give up my extra hps from the sta line.  If anything I'd be tempted to go WIS again for the newly useful +skills, but then I lose my crits which make me happy in the pants and dip below 7k hps again until I can get better gear.  The annoying thing about all this is that the fact that their are hard choices means our AP tree is working as intended. 

[Caetrel]

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Not even close. Our biggest hitters are all magic spells, if you check a parser man you will find this out concecrate/refusal of conviction, and my personal procs are always at top of my list percentage wise after a raid. eating out about 45% of my total damage on just them 3 next will be my bare weapon then comes two more spells before my first melee attack ca. Before you go tell people that melee 8pts of melee crits will equal 8pts of spell crits do some research.

---

LoL, okay.  How's that bare weapon working out for ya?

Message Edited by Caetrel on 12-03-2006 11:38 AM

[hawsecav19d]

By bare weapon I meant the strait slash damage it does not counting any procs  it has on it. Between 14-19% of my damage comes from my weapon got MC t7 ax. Proc from it which crits like other spells does more damage that some of my CAs. I dont like parses for alot of reason cause it makes for alot of ego but as far as telling you what you did for damage its great. I had Melee crits maxed for awhile along with Spell crits and then I respeced out of STA line to go all way down STR line for 10% reduction cast and recast timers. My melee dps"slash from ax" only droped about 4% over labs zone. But my overall dps went up because I could recast my big nukes and long CAs faster along with the extra haste. If you had a monster slow weapon like the person stated earlier thats got a crit range around 2-3k then maybe you might beat your spell damage with melee damage but I would have to see to believe it. And I will be willing to concede it comes down to play style and roll as well. I am not MT very seldom even 2-3 down the list. My int in raid is up near 850 since eof and I work more like a Warlock than a tank on raids I dps first and ward/heal second and only if asked try and tank. On multiple mobs to keep from getting agro I go thru my CA first on first mob once its down to half health or less I debuff with taunt and then I hit all my AOEs hitting 2-5th mobs in group for 1k plus each. Then I work thru my biggest damage CA and spells that are up again till my AOE are up again. So spells end up doing heaps of damage for me since our 3 biggests single damages are from spells Hallowed Judgment, Refusal of Conv and proc from Righteous Demonstration. I will concede it might be diff for someone who does diff role in raid didnt really mean to sound like I was having a go at you.

Message Edited by hawsecav19d on 12-03-2006 05:43 PM

Message Edited by hawsecav19d on 12-03-2006 05:47 PM

[Ai yo]

It not fair SK get a self buff of Mit on em self abt 350 if there is a fighter in grp but we dont sigh.

 

[Caetrel]

Yah it definately varies on the type of encounter.  No doubt you will do way more spell damage on a large pack of mobs with spells when Consecrate is up.   On a single raid named, Tarinax for example, I am gonna do more melee than spell.  The bulk of our spell damage is from AOE.  To me, the times on a raid when I need to do as much dps as possible to really make any difference is helping to burn on that one nasty mob.  I think the INT line is overemphasized amongst the paladin community.  Combat arts and melee attack are the vast majority of our single target damage and almost always the majority of damage on pack encounters (the 30 second healing aoe is a combat art for some reason, even with a long cast time).  The only time spells damage is predominant is with many trash mobs, in which case our dps isn't really necessary. To truly max our dps you need 8 points in both spell and melee crits.  But melee is in a line that helps tanking, spell crit isn't.  I think the crits from each are close to tantamount in a raid situation.  Imagine using only consecrate, unflinching, brimstone, and our 2 true nukes, nothing else and melee ataack turned off.  Compare that to melee, CAs, and the CA aoe.   Much more comes from the later.  I could hit 5-600 dps on one mob without using a spell, don't think I could come close if it were reversed.  Lot of rambling, sorry....my point is pallies should know that our divine damage CAs do not benefit from spell crits, and melee crit benefits all the CAs and also our melee auto-attack. One interesting thing is spell boosting effects like bolt of energy and symmetry increase the damage of anything we do that has a divine tag- spells and CAs alike.  Very cool, and I hope working as intended.

[Silverpaws]

My current AAs:KoSStr 4/4/4/4Wis 4/4/4/4Int 4/4/5/4Paladin (i cant remember the names off hand)Healing line: 4 pointsHero line:  6 points

[Kaleyen]

Anyone know off the top of their heads what the casting time of Arch Heal is?

[Wulfborne]

Off the top of my head, no.BUT, I remember that it was only very slightly longer than my single target heal, and faster than my group heal.~Hawke

[madha]

what avoidance will the sheild mastry aa give us currently im at 22% blocking and 40ish % avoidance and wondering if 20%ish block  will give me a huge avoidaance chance or with daminished returns will i only get like 3% more avoidance

[Seomon]

You definitely won't get 3%. It's 24% based on what your block is, so if you have 22% block, you'll have 27.28% block. That's about a 1.76% avoid increase.

[DarkRanger77]

Just want to make a couple comments here from spot reading this. If you think doom judgement is worthless you are a complete [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and need to stop playing a paladin. It takes damage shields off of raid mobs, and if you don't do it in raids you need to learn your class. I agree we need someting changed these changes just arent up to par with what everyone else got. One more thing. The group mit buff is crap stop taking it ffs people. You give group mit to scouts and healers WHO CARES, this isnt support you know why? Because if you are doing EOF raid zones then you should know that 99% of aoes arent physical aoes, they need to get resists up not their mit. So this mit buff is for kos raiders which honestly if you are above kos and in eof stuff doing good then those kos aoes are a joke anyway. So this mit buff is a peice of crap, dont take it.

[Wallzak]

Doom Judgement:  This is a helpful spell, although limited.  The reuse time vs the number of times I see it strip something off a mob is... rare at best (now granted, I often don't pay attention closely enough, or save it, for times I see a mob that can be used as a debuff... good reminder, maybe I'll be more selective in its use)

 

 

RE: Mit group buff... That is helpful to know, it will cause me to rethink whether I will throw points into it later on... but don't forget some people do more than just raid.  There are times, in groups, and I know I speak blasphemy, that an individual without amends will pull agro off a paly... in my opinion that extra mit may be the determining factor of whether that player goes down or not before you regain agro. 

 

Is it worth through 1-5 points into vs something else?  I'll let you know when I have that extra aa that I don't know how to spend cause I got everything else I need.