Where are all the munk tanks?

[ReficulFonwaps]

70 SK here just browsing the monk forum to find out more info on your class. Seems like every single time I group with a monk they don't wan to tank. I get tired of tanking sometimes and want to kick back and dps, so I'm like "hey bro, you want to mt now?" and they are all "um..uh...tank?". What gives, some monks (all the ones i've met) are giving monks the reputation of not being able to tank. Do most of you guys roll a monk to be a tank, or roll a monk to be some sort of second rate dps?

[Kinless]

We are out here, just a bit fewer and farther between these days. A lot of monks never got to spend the time developing tanking skills as there were some rough spots for us untill recently. As for why did I roll a monk ? I liked the versatility of the class, and the challenge of playing it.

[Bladewind]

The image of a monk tank is pretty damaged right now because of the avoidance issues that were present in KoS and the first week or so of EoF. Unless a person made their toon more than a year ago, they had to cope with some pretty poor mechanics when tanking heroics and epics.  We're definitely fixed, though.  I was in the tanking rotation for Gorenaire last night and was told by the healers that healing me was no different than our regular guardian MT.

I rolled a monk because I thought the idea of an avoidance tank sounded fun and because I enjoy eastern martial arts in general.  The added versitality is nice, but tanking was what what attracted me to the fighter archetype. 

[Karamonde]

when i started a monk it was from my EQ1 feeling, now casual monk have more capacity to tank, well i still not equiped well enough to be our guild mt, and we suffer a lot of prejudice done in the past.But as debated often here, EQ2 monk is an odd bird, nor a full tank, nor a full dps.  SoE have give us detaunt skills, one day we might end in the scout tree, wouldnt hurt that much for a lot of people.  They even gave swashbuckler tanking capacity : pon a side note, since nda is left, Vanguard monk is full dps, a la EQ1 at least i found back my shoes there

[SouthernAvenger]

Aye before the new expansion monks wern't even considered a option as tank. I dont believe i was a mt for my group untill my late 50's and even then i was always thrown aside for a plate tank. The majority of monks out there just dont have the experince needed to succesfully be mt in a group. However since the recent changes i've been asked to tank alot more often then i was. We are finally getting to the point where we are becoming a viable option. For the monks who dont want to tank, their just lazy and should have rolled a true dps class.

[psubull]

I join as DPS sometimes and end up tanking.  Usually I just tank off the bat.  However, I don't group out of guild often -- when I do, I end up with the most braindead healers.  Doesn't matter how good of a tank I am, the healer is half the battle.  

[Bladewind]

I don't have any issue at all with those choosing to focus on dps exclusively.  We have AA trees that allow you to focus one way or the other - like all fighters.  I just get upset when the blanket 'brawlers can't tank' statements get thrown around like feces at a zoo's chimpanzee exhibit.  If I join a group, I don't care if I am the tank or not so long as the existing tank is doing a decent job.  If they aren't very good, I might offer my services.  The flip side of our 'all fighters can tank' argument is letting those other fighters tank in our presence   I wish more non brawlers would learn how to dps, though.  Even fully tank-specced, a skilled fighter in offensive stance with solid weapon(s) and some dps gear (imbued rings at the least) can pump out decent dps.

I have a dpsing paladin.  I'll tank on him when asked, but gladly defer that responsibility to any other fighter in the group because he is geared completely for damage rather than defense.  Does that mean I run around claiming crusaders cannot tank just because I can lay down solid dps with mine?  Nope.

Our raid alliance has put brawlers, warriors, and crusaders in front of end game epic mobs.  So long as the player's gear and skills were up to snuff, they have done fine, regardless of which class of fighter they were.  Certain encounters are naturally more-geared towards certain fighters, but things are finally balanced to where any fighter with appropriate skill and gear can tank just about any encounter.

[Bladewind]

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psubullet wrote:
I join as DPS sometimes and end up tanking.  Usually I just tank off the bat.  However, I don't group out of guild often -- when I do, I end up with the most braindead healers.  Doesn't matter how good of a tank I am, the healer is half the battle.  

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I agree fully here.

[Logan]

I have been pretty lucky with my guild groups letting me tank lots all along for any 1 group instances we go to. I haven't raid tanked much since that's where I play my assassin but tanking is the best it has been for us monks now. I did gear my aa in that direction. Personally I would rather tank while playing monk than dps but that's just me. If I ever do pick up groups it is always a struggle to sell them on me tanking until they actually see it's pretty good. Not gonna say we are better than any other class at it but definitely more than adequate and my guildies enjoy taking a break from their tanks to dps or play their alt.

 

Logann , Kithicor

[Illustrious]

for grp instances monks are pretty much as good as any tank these days better in some ways cause of good dps at same time. Epics still better left to the guards/zerks but monk can still tank epics when required tho not as efficiantly.

 

and for me i play monk for fun, good grp play, good solo play (tho worse solo by far since eof) and medoichre raid play tho can do ok dps and ok tanking can be replaced by many classes that can do either of those much better.

[Eugam]

Me sucks at tanking My sense of orientation is non existend. I wanted a fighter alt, thats why i rolled a monk. But usually i am soloing. I really only tank if i am sure to know the zone, or when duoing. So most of time in guild and mentored down

[Kilgrim]

Half the time I end up tanking, half the time dps.  Seems I do a good enough job at either role.  Not fabled apart from a couple of pieces, most masters.

Oddly enough the reason I put so much time into this toon is the versatility -- I still think we have it all -- and my aa is again the generalist, splitting between getting the inproved taunting, 2h staff Twirl for group aggro, heal, crits!  I don't care about min-maxing:

 

Specialization is for insects.  Heinlein

 

I am hardly uber, but I can tank any of the bread-and-butter instances in kos or eof, and raiding in pickup raids I sometimes lead the dps if the groups are made up in my favour.

 

Besides, the real reason we are monks is that we look the coolest in a world of cardboard cut-outs!

 

Gentle

Knights of the White Shield

Splitpaw

[Almeric_CoS]

I love to tank, though groups don't always want me to.  Sometimes I find it frustrating when a group would rather have a plate tank that is 3-5 levels (and anywhere up to 1500 or 2000 hitpoints) below me, just because his mitigation is higher.

 

BUT, the other day I was grouped with an SK in that situation and he said he would rather tank because "SK DPS sucks."  Never having played an SK, I don't know if that's true, but since we monks are so versitile I find myself taking pity on those poor plate tanks and just slide myself into the DPS slot

 

 

[Quind]

I personally love to tank, and will take any opportunity I can get to tank for people.  That said, I don't group much right now outside of my usual duo, and tanking for the dirge is pretty easy.I'm looking forward to gearing up and finishing out my build so I can get into some bigger and better tanking situations.  Just getting tired of having people laugh at me in 60-69 every time I ask for stat benchmarks or suggestions.  At least my guildmates aren't tools who tell me that I can't tank.  Think I'd have to guildremove if that crap started in /gu.

[Isa]

I have tanked with my monk ever since I came back to playing the game about 4 months ago.  I have had little to no problems (save for some minor hiccups right after EOF, came out).

Done properly, we can do just about as well as most plate tanks and we get to enjoy a little better dps.

[Aelona]

Well I am a 49 monk and I love to tank.  My rl bf is a 70 beserker and got me into the game, when I started playing my own character I picked a ranger.  I didnt like the ranger and after lvl 20 I told him, I want to do what you do, but I dont want to wear the plate armor.  (Cause as stupid as this sounds I am a girl and was totally new to the game so I was concerned about looking cute.)  So he said I could be a monk or a bruiser.  I picked Monk so I could start in Qeynos.  I am really good at tanking and I get really annoyed because I will get into groups with plate armor toons several levels lower than me that cant tank worth a crap but the group doesnt want me to do it because I am a monk.  Its bull!  Now there are a few people in my guild that always want me to tank so I play with them.  I hate all the crap and arguing about wether or not monks can tank. 

[RipFlex]

We are just not efficient Tanks, sure I can do Heroics if I don't get lots of adds, and I never consider Epics unless x2.  Not that I suck I really consider brawlers have the worse toolset keeping Group aggro and managing adds, I know this because I Power Leveled a Rat Guardian to my Rat Monk and my Rat Guardian mostly Mastercrafted/AD3 out can tank yellows and oranges in Heroic instances way better than my Legendary/Mastered out Monk at 70th level in Survivability and holding Group+adds in Aggro.  It's Black and White IMO.

My Monk now Harvest/Solo and collect shinies in danagerous areas...

Why work 4x as hard holding agro when you do not have to ?

 

Message Edited by RipFlex on 01-15-2007 09:21 PM

[JudyJudy]

I think it's really based on how you want to build your class - both with arts, skills and reputation.

Some monks I know go the DPS route and don't even put taunts on their hotbar, others - live for the MT or MA position in any situation - heroic or epic.

In my opinion, I believe many create the monk class to solo, do quests, enjoy the mediocrity of settling solely with class mechanics to level.  They use the monk as an alt to farm for plat, do quests, maybe even tradeskill.  Few take the reigns and reap the joy and skill from a fully played monk - DPS or tanking.

[Ryuugekitai]

Well I do enjoy DPS and Tanking (especialy since my guilde lacks both dps and tanks, so I fill in where I'm most needed). I do like both play style as long as I can change from one day to the next. And I do ok tanking.

Yesterday I tanked HoF. Everything went well from top to bottom, except for Septimus.

Anyone tanked that monster lately ?
The problem I have with this guy : His CA bypass avoidance completely. They go right trough Tsunami.
He uses 2 for what I coudl see in my logs. Both hiting from 1500 to about 5000 (I have 50% mit) one in crushing and one in slash.
I can't give you the named of the CA, being french, those names are in french and I doubt it will ring any bell.

Though the lvl 68 Zerker that was with us got destroyed as well, so I'm starting to wonder wethere there is something wrong with that named, maybe since EoF (I never tried him before EoF).

[RipFlex]

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JudyJudy wrote:

I think it's really based on how you want to build your class - both with arts, skills and reputation.

Some monks I know go the DPS route and don't even put taunts on their hotbar, others - live for the MT or MA position in any situation - heroic or epic.

In my opinion, I believe many create the monk class to solo, do quests, enjoy the mediocrity of settling solely with class mechanics to level.  They use the monk as an alt to farm for plat, do quests, maybe even tradeskill.  Few take the reigns and reap the joy and skill from a fully played monk - DPS or tanking.

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JudyJudy said it best.  I can elaborate on it.  The Monk is the Fighter/Scout Melee Hybrid.  With mad determinations, and knowing full well the Brawler has the "Short end of the stick" in it's toolset to be a good Group oriented tank, can Group tank all instances. One can gain a reputation being a great Monk Tank,  With hard efforts getting all the RARE brawler Fables and specially TAILER your raids, Moreso than a plate needs to, you can be a reputable Raid Tank (To be honest a MT raiding Brawler usually the Raid leader ).  But that said you are doing it with the most difficult fighter type class.  My Sakkat hat goes to those few that do it... cheers.

For me as I said before, Solo with my Monk, Harvest and collect in all areas even if they are hostile areas.  I Help out in Heroic names, 1 on 1 that guildies and some people need.  I perfer now to run Heroic instnaces now with my newish almost 70th level Guardian and in the near future Raid tank.  I also like my Monk in the MA part of heroic instances to.. comfortable in that area, many tools for me in that area Group FD, FD, Emergency heal the Plated MT... etc...

More of a personal comfort zone for my Little Monk... oh and that he's high on the fun factor in general.

 

Message Edited by RipFlex on 01-16-2007 10:52 AM

[Shankonia]

I've had little problem tanking anything i've faced in the games current state aside from losing aggro to a trigger happy Warlock or Zerker in a group situation (i'm guessing zerker was taunting though to belittle me the best he could).

Hate transfer AA's come in quite handy and help us out alot, as do the taunt enhancements.

As far as staying alive, I also feel as though I do pretty well after seeing beefy Guards tank the same encounters.  I get such good aggro now I find myself using the stone stance line quite a bit more frequently.

[Illustrious]

Top end raid encounters Warriors FTW no arguments.

 

Heroic and easier Epic encounters pretty much any fighter can do with ease. Sure grp aggro management is a pain for brawlers but its still perfectly doable.

 

2 grped Vraksakin and Pantrilla this week with my monk tanking and basically was Green entire fights. I know they are pretty [Removed for Content] encounters, but I have no doubt i could tank the majority of KoS epics with no problem (done a few but not many due to always have guard in raid)  and probably a decent amount of the EoF instance mobs also. Trouble is the harder the epic encounter, then generally it become more and more efficient to use a warrior and at the real top end im in no doubt that there are mobs impossible for brawlers to succesfully tank full stop. That i think is as it should be.

[Junaru]

I'm one of those Monks that grew up never tanking. The 1st time I tanked for a group was in SH. The second time was in New Tunare. See the large gap there? This wasn't cause I didn't want to. More of the fact that I really wasn't let tank. Lately more and more I have been called on by guildies to tank things like Klak and Tunare. Not sure where the skill came from but when I told then it was my 1st time tanking they said they couldn't tell. Not like it's hard to tank normal group mobs anyways.As for why I started a Monk. Well my 1st toon was a Warlock the day EQ2 started. I got tired of the cast times and wanted to play a upfront in your grill class. I tired out the Monk and never looked back.

[shaolen]

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JudyJudy wrote:

 Few take the reigns and reap the joy and skill from a fully played monk - DPS or tanking.

---

 

Well said my Brother.   I believe that most folks dont invest the time and effort it takes to become a good brawler tank or dps.  

[Jakerf]

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Ryuugekitai wrote:

Well I do enjoy DPS and Tanking (especialy since my guilde lacks both dps and tanks, so I fill in where I'm most needed). I do like both play style as long as I can change from one day to the next. And I do ok tanking.

Yesterday I tanked HoF. Everything went well from top to bottom, except for Septimus.

Anyone tanked that monster lately ?
The problem I have with this guy : His CA bypass avoidance completely. They go right trough Tsunami.
He uses 2 for what I coudl see in my logs. Both hiting from 1500 to about 5000 (I have 50% mit) one in crushing and one in slash.
I can't give you the named of the CA, being french, those names are in french and I doubt it will ring any bell.

Though the lvl 68 Zerker that was with us got destroyed as well, so I'm starting to wonder wethere there is something wrong with that named, maybe since EoF (I never tried him before EoF).

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I got wiped by this guy twice a few nights ago.  I was in a group who let me tank even though we had a 70 guard with us.  The guard was able to tank him but it was still pretty close.  Just wondering if any monks have tanked Septimus lately and if so how they did it?

 

 

[Bladewind]

Judicious use of tsunami, the avoidance AA, our ward, and our mit buff usually sees me through.  I tank him in defensive since I usually have a warden along to nullify my stance penalties.  If you happen to have a dirge along, he is easy thanks to stoneskin.  Even without, he is doable with a single healer.  It gets hairy, but you can do it

[JudyJudy]

Tanked him a few nights ago - He has a huge 5k CA that he uses off the bat and most likely throughout the fight.  The rest of the fight wasn't bad at all.  We had just one healer who cured trauma, so that helped.    Didn't even have to mend.

Stance dancing is good too.  When you're stuns and stifle are up, switch to your mid-stance to ensure they all hit, then "dance" back to your defensive stance while they refresh.

Also, if you don't have any melee (or if they don't mind) - eagle spin works too.  Leading with eagle spin then spamming your stuns will usually buy you about 5 sec or so of the mob facing the other way.  This means no damage to you.  :smileywink:

Good luck!

[selch]

Long story short of all responses in this thread: There are more monks who suck at tanking in person and go for easy path of DPS, where there is no direct responsibility of failure or success, compared to last year... These are generally people who picked monk just to wear Gi to look good.

 

And ofcourse there are more players who plays roles "what their guilds needs" rather than "playing for their own joy" and eventually get bored of game and quit.

 

 

 

Message Edited by selch on 01-27-2007 01:29 PM

[Fleaba]

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RipFlex wrote:

We are just not efficient Tanks, sure I can do Heroics if I don't get lots of adds, and I never consider Epics unless x2.  Not that I suck I really consider brawlers have the worse toolset keeping Group aggro and managing adds, I know this because I Power Leveled a Rat Guardian to my Rat Monk and my Rat Guardian mostly Mastercrafted/AD3 out can tank yellows and oranges in Heroic instances way better than my Legendary/Mastered out Monk at 70th level in Survivability and holding Group+adds in Aggro.  It's Black and White IMO.

My Monk now Harvest/Solo and collect shinies in danagerous areas...

Why work 4x as hard holding agro when you do not have to ?

 

Message Edited by RipFlex on 01-15-2007 09:21 PM

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I take it you haven't tried playing your monk lately......

Just the other night our guardian died while fighting D'Lizta Cheroon an (Epic x 4 mob in Mistmoore Inner Sanctum), I nailed my Tsunami, rescue, turned the mob and changed to defensive stance. When Tsumani was about to die I tossed up my Mountain Stance and just kept taunting away. During this time at tanking the healers were rezzing and rebuffing our guardian and I don't think my health ever dropped below 75%. He actually took the time to buff up fully before saying he'd take it back.

My guild of late has put me in the position of Main tank on the new epic EoF mobs quit more then I ever anticipated lately and that is because they are slowly getting more confident with me and my chosen class in that role.  I've always been a firm believer that SOE tries to design some epic encounters that are best suited for certain fighter classes that ARE NOT guardians. For instance, have you ever tried Lord Vyemm with a Pally tanking and amends on a good Assassin who is giving his hate to the Pally? Mem wipe?? What mem wipe?? Vyemm never turns with this combo if they can play there class.

[Bladewind]

As a complete aside, I have not seen Vyemm memwipe since the release of EoF.  He memwiped with almost every aoe pre-EoF but has not done it to us since.  We hit the labs milk run almost every week.